(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update

By B9

6 years ago

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  • 10,044 posts
  • 743 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by GravitaR
  • Topic is favorited by 96 Pinsiders


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#6909 4 years ago
Quoted from dendoc:

Great code is only developed once the game is out there and being played. The suggestions made by Pinsiders and tournament players is often implemented by Keith to great effect, so when he says it's 60% complete, it probably means there is tons of room for additions which is a good thing.

Good point. The code on WOZ improved significantly as the game was already sold and on site. TH looks like it already is more developed and, in conjunction with the design changes will be a fantastic machine. There undoubtedly will be future updates the TH code which should help it only get better and better.

#7083 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Wow- building ANOTHER 700-800 WoZ game. Pretty Impressive.
Boy was I wrong about that theme....
Maybe it was my imagination, but I felt like there was more NEWS about WoZ and JJP #3 than there was about TH!

I believe Jack was talking about building another 700-800 WOZ games through the expiration of the license in 2017. Still impressive but not that surprising to me.

Also, even though there wasn't a whole lot of TH news, the question and answer session was pretty interesting. I got what I wanted regarding TH....September ship date. I should be in early production.

#7099 4 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

So they are going to stop running WoZ and run some Hobbits, then switch back to WoZ again?
Some of you have been to their facility, can they run 2 titles on their production line at the same time?

They currently are not set up to do both in my opinion. I believe that JJP will need to increase production. Being in manufacturing for over 25 years, I would say this means adding shifts of production to meet demand. I don't believe they can support production of 800 WOZ games, 1600 TH pre-orders, and JJP 3rd game without doing so. Additionally, it is evident that JJP is out of the pre-order business with the launch of their 3rd pin. To me this means they either have enough capital or equity to manufacture games without using the pre-order cashflow. A good sign for JJP and all who believe the competition will be great for all us pinheads.

#7110 4 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

Yes, hire up some workers and get those lines cranking!!! Thats a lot of Hobbits to make!

To me it's a no-brainer. He is making a really quality product; however, if he can't get it into consumers hands then he's not going to be successful long-term. If JJP wants to compete with the Stern's of this world then he going to need to deliver the goods. I can certainly understand the rigors of start-up from the ground in a tough market like pinball, but there are other factions of business besides product development, finance and marketing. Manufacturing and Logistics just as important. I personally believe that you'll see him ramp up production on TH and expand his infrastructure to produce multiple pins.

#7113 4 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

1500 Hobbits (was that the LE run?) so 52 weeks of 2016 would be ~29~games a week, it would seem quite doable.

I believe that's SE's, LE's and Standards. He undoubtedly will get a lot more orders once the game starts shipping. It wouldn't surprise me if he sells another 1500 or more. Add a few more WOZ's and preparation for JJP #3 and you can easily see why he'll ramp up production.

#7115 4 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

JJP needs to play its own game, so to speak. Unfortunately, that means long manufacturing times, especially when they're still low on the learning curve. Nice to hear that they sound VERY solvent, and should only get better from here on out, as long as they stick to that same innovative, challenging, design principle.

Sure there will be growing pains, but JJP already went through the toughest part. Adding production, training workers, and delivering goods is relatively easy given the resources that are already available.

#7135 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

The labor is cheap and is paid incrementally... the cost is all the parts you need to buy well up front. Something JJP has been struggling with.
Somehow I don't think lack of qualified manual labor is behind JJP's low output...

I don't think Jack said that cost is the issue it's getting the parts from the vendors. He mentioned that the same suppliers make parts for other pinball manufacturers.

#7141 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Well yeah, people tend to stop giving you terms and shipping stuff on credit when you stop paying vendors or allow disputes to carry on w/o payment. We are well past any 'lead time' issues.. WOZ games have been being built for ages now, yet they STILL can't ramp up any kind of volume... in a period they still have struggled to find cash flows. They are a factory - to get cash you gotta ship stuff.. yet they still can't do that. I doubt JJP is going 'lets stretch these orders out to ensure some slow trickle of cashflow over the next 12m'. They already have the next game queued up.. they need to crank up the factory output to convert all that R&D to INCOME.

I believe he has the capacity to increase production but last I was there he only had one line of production. He'll have to add shifts unless he creates another line.

#7149 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

He doesn't mention time to deliver because they don't have a good answer under their control.

Actually he does, but I still agree with you. At the NW pinball show he stated he was 40 days backlogged with WOZ and currently on their website they are at 30 days. Jack is going to have to ramp up production to get the hobbit out to customers while preparing to launch his 3rd pin.

#7153 4 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Whoa, you got ahead of yourself. This should have read ... Jack is going to have to ramp up production to get the extra WOZ out to customers while preparing to launch his 2nd pin - TH. His 3rd pin is being designed and is reportedly very far along.

I believe he said he's planning to unveil pin #3 at expo and that will be here before you know it. TH will be in full production by then so I don't believe I'm getting to far ahead of myself. Jack stated that pin #3 design is pretty much finished and also there will not be any holdup for licensing or changes in design. Additionally, no pre-orders, so when he shows it at expo then he'll set a production date. This means he'll need to ramp up production on TH.

Quoted from Hitch9:

Stern did the same thing with Lord of the Rings back around 2003-2007. They built many of them for years, because demand was so high. It seemed like they built a batch, and then more orders came through. I bought a LOTR back in 2005, two years after production started. WOZ really didn't start production until May 2013. We are just after the two year mark now. If it's successful Stern keeps pumping them out. They did it until they created the LOTRLE model. I don't see any difference with WOZ. You aren't going to build 700-800 and then have them sit in a warehouse. This is bad business. You will produce them as demand comes through. You can bet that JJP will keep producing them as the orders come through. This is no different than many factories.
The only difference is Stern was building other models as well, in between. JJP is just starting to get to that point.

I totally agree. This is exactly how I see the situation JJP is in now; however, they are going to need to add another line or increase a shift of production to meet demand. If they don't this will be bad business as well.

#7202 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Just my opinion but it's not that hard to realize. WOZ has surpassed anything Stern has ever built and it's only JJP's first game. I say that being someone who has bought two NIB Sterns in the past couple years. There's just no comparison. JJP games have more focus on features, tech, sound, and code. You can tell that the whole team wanted to make an incredible pinball machine with WOZ. I expect to see the same thing with The Hobbit and Pats game.

I really like WOZ and TH as well. I believe JJP will be good for Stern because it will challenge them to get away from the same type of designs and be innovative themselves. Stern isn't going away and I'm sure we'll see bigger and better things come our way. LOTR and SM are easily top 10 pins for me and I like MET and AC/DC too. Great for pinball all around.

#7298 4 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Played the Hobbit at pintastic and thought it was amazing! Congrats to JJP. I sold my fully paid preorder as I did not see the point in tying up the cash. Now that I have no skin in the game and my money is not tied up......This Dark Knight has nothing but love for the JJP boys! Great job Jack!

Yes, thank you for selling it to me nick!

1 week later
#7429 4 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Not quite. You are seeing a heck of a lot of parts being stock piled for going into production.
Go to the open house in August and see for yourself.
LTG : )

August 29th? What time?

2 weeks later
#7524 4 years ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

Seems like frustration and not hate. People are being asked to live with blind faith. Better communication hat is fact based and not overly optimistic would address this frustration.

Not understanding the frustration. Especially when many of the folks complaining don't have money tied up. It's pretty simple....You either wait for the product or sell. I have paid in full TH and I'm patiently waiting for it. Certainly not worth getting frustrated over.

#7530 4 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

The frustration is caused by the expectations JJP instilled to get people to order the game.
He did say they were contractually obligated to ship when the third movie came out.
People expected that to happen. It didn't. More delays followed. Hence, frustration.

Still frustrated or you over it? If you don't have any salt into it then it shouldn't taste that bad.

#7547 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

This is a too simple statement and letting out the situation people were in when they pre ordered.
Trust can be broken, and if a game has already been paid in full and is still not delivered. What are you going to do?

I would say your trying to make it too complicated. If you paid in full like I am, you either wait or if the trust factor puts you on the other side of things then you sell. It really is that simple.

2 weeks later
#7883 4 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

I like dick.

Now there is an update!

#7927 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

JJP just raised prices by $500, and that's just crazy to me. All Stern seems to have learned from JJP is they weren't charging enough. If there are more real players in the game there's going to be less of a collusion effect, and maybe, just maybe, the manufacturers will have to compete for our dollars a little more, and we'll get some benefit from it.

JPP and Stern are determining prices due to demand. It the basic economic principle of supply and demand. When the demand decreases so will the price. I too would like to see the prices come down, but unfortunately, I just bought 3 NIB machines and I'm obviously contributing to the increase in demand. Not that I regret it because I got them at the buy-in prices but I probably will start to look at the secondary market for used machines on my next purchases. Unless of course JPP next game is Kick Ass. Bottom line, as long as people are buying at 9K+ the prices will likely stay there.

#7996 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I'm surprised by how few people are in that room for the Q&A. I guess there's only so much info/answers you can keep repeating regarding the status of Hobbit at this point.

The meeting was actually moved to Jacks office because there was not enough space where they had planned to do the Q & A. They couldn't do it in the warehouse or the tournament play area due to the noise. As far as the delay...It looks like October until they will get enough of the parts in for production.

#8017 4 years ago

Here are a few clips from JJP Jersey Shore Show.

Finally got to hear a little from Keith at the Q & A. He discussed a little about his time at Williams and Stern before getting laid-off. Tough time for pinball but I bet Stern wished they could have kept him.

Also a good look at the underside of the playfield and how much JPP put into it. Jack told me that the pop up mechanisms are even unique and had to be specially made. He said he couldn't use ones like in MM because of clearance to the CPU casement.



#8058 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

JJP could have filled this thread with news and buzz had this past weekend been what we were lead to believe it might be.
Regarding the discussion of Stern's LCD display as it relates to the Hobbit, I personally don't feel it's off topic. Stern's employees have been hinting that GoT is going to surpass the Hobbit and have this massive BOM with a dragon ball lock and what not...now we hear that GoT might not have an LCD display like the Hobbit will...
Directly relevant? Nope. Ballpark relevant? In lack of other news I'd say it's certainly ballpark relevant. Similar themes. Supposed to have a similar release date (though now it seems GoT will beat it to market). Similar price points. Rival development teams.
The lack of an LCD display will mean GoT is less likely to poach customers off the NIB market from TH.

I talked at length with Butch yesterday and he told me that the LCD was a pretty expensive piece to the BOM. I really believe that would cut into the profit margin of GOT and that's probably why we may be hearing that it may not be in. I don't need a LCD to play pinball but I do think it adds a great deal to the gameplay. Also, I love being able to pull of the diagnostics on that huge screen. After playing the Hobbit I'm definitely still in.

#8059 4 years ago
1 week later
#8281 4 years ago
Quoted from jazc4:

Being someone that tried watching GOT and didn't care for it, I won't be changing my mind. TH all the way for me.

I liked the walking dead but never could get into game of thrones. I agree, not the right theme for me.

#8286 4 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

I hope JJP really pushes TH into production soon. If not a lot of people who ordered the hobbit may bail if GOT is available first. I would never bail on a JJP game for a Stern game but there are some that might. Hell, i may bail on TH if Pat's game is shown this year and I like what i see. Come on JJP, GIVE US SOME NEWS WE CAN USE!!! We don't want to hear "waiting for parts anymore"

The only info JJP gave about Pat's game was that it wasn't going to be a widebody, no license needed, and no promises that it would be shown at expo. Knowing this, I doubt that it will be shown before the Hobbit starts shipping.

#8289 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

he has said more. He has boasted about how complete it is, and made inferences that it would launch very quickly.. and not suffer the same kind of long delays between reveal and shipment the other games have. But this is all about the staging Jack has done... hes not saying specifics because he doesn't want to get burned again.. but he can't help but promote just how great 'the next thing is..'
At replay he made it sound that that Pat's reveal *could* happen at expo... but inferred if Hobbit were late it might not be the right time to do so. Since Hobbit is sliding more and more past Sept and Oct... I'd wager they won't launch Pat's game at Expo.
I wouldn't be surprised if Pat is trying to deliver a turn-key game to JJP.. instead of delivering a DESIGN that then must be filled out, engineered, programmed, etc. The way Jack talks... I think its going to be more of that kind of relationship and that would support why he is so confident when he talks about the game's current state and how quickly it will happen after hobbit.

No doubt that their excited about Pat's game but not likely going to be introduced at expo. JJP already has another license game for #4 and is already talking about #5. He did state that he would like to get to the point of producing two games per year. First things first, he needs to get the parts for TH and start production.

#8330 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

GOT pics released! Rest easy JJP, The Hobbit looks far better and easily offers the better value.

Never liked the theme but lets see how the gameplay is before totally writing it off. Remember TH playfield before the redesign, it wasn't nearly as impressive as it is now.

#8451 4 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Not really sure of the date. Couple of years ago. I will go back and see. Quick q. How many WOZ were being made per week so I can get a idea of how many hobbits can be made.

The QC person at JJP told me that they have done up to 60 in a week. That's 1 shift and he also told me that Jack wants to add an additional shift to expedite the delays.

#8466 4 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

So if production starts when it says it will and they can do lets say an avg of 50 per week (per production line) they should be able to push out 400 to 500 by the end of 2015? If two lines then 1,000? That would be fantastic...

According to Jack they are going to produce TH on the same line so an additional line isn't in the cards; however, the additional shift of production is possible.

6 months later
#9484 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I get that (The book) and the rules seem straight forward and rather simplistic about what to hit (left ramp, orbits, spider, etc.) The book is a massive improvement over the Crystal ball in WOZ btw.... The modes rather just seem kind of flat and anti-climactic. Maybe it's because a lot of the sound effects and visual queues aren't there? I think I also have a hard time just wrapping my mind around so many different modes that I have a hard time seeing how everything fits together? I don't really have a clear strategy around how to make the modes more lucrative. I know in Keefer's past games like LOTR I always knew the strategy about which modes to start and when as well as which modes to stack with multiball. In Hobbit I honestly have no idea. I also don't know what anything is worth while I'm shooting during modes because that info isn't in my peripheral vision while playing. If I score decent points while playing I'm unsure of how I actually accumulated those points.

I thought this was helpful in understanding the ruleset.


1 month later
#9752 3 years ago
Quoted from WesleyCowan:

After some minor issues on some early ones, on the latest releases are the issues with balls getting stuck in the pop ups and habit trails going okay with ones now coming off the assembly line?
Okay let me explain motivation so no one will misunderstand and think I'm trolling. I want to buy a TH very soon, maybe from someone who pre-ordered, but now wants to sell their spot. Or from a distributor that has one already in stock. My preference would be to up the odds that I get one NIB that's basically plug and play. I realize could wait and get a slightly used one that's working 100% but I've never experienced the NIB thrill and sort of would like to with TH. It's because I like JJP and am very, very excited by TH so put to rest, please, doubts I'm criticizing JJP in a backhand way. WOZ is great (gets more play from me than MM, SM, or my other games) and I'm so very happy with it and would love to add a TH next to it!
Also amazed that JJP has just already added another new code update to TH and how well WOZ has awesomely developed re: code! Thanks JJP.

Your so right about the WOZ code. It kicks butt now. BTW- I actually have 2 Hobbits coming to my home soon. Thought about keeping both but looking to trade 1 for a MET LE.

1 month later
#9815 3 years ago

Just got mine as well. I can't stop playing it! I've had zero issues with this machine through gameplay. No balls getting stuck in vuk or pop ups, no ball jumping over ring lance, no weak flippers, no floaty play. This game kicks ass.

#9828 3 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

What's your playfield angle set at?

I have mine set at 12 degrees. Plays perfect!

2 months later
#9856 3 years ago

I'm not sure what the problem is that you haven't got your Hobbit yet but I know that JJP really made a point to try to fill orders in which they were purchased. I know they only have 1 line so I'm not sure how long they ran the SE, LE and standard hobbits between changeovers. My understanding is that the pre-ordering model will not be continued with the PL pin.

4 weeks later
#10007 3 years ago

I'm having trouble with the update. Running 1.21 and trying to update to 1.90. Getting a message that says no update found but have both the zip and extracted folder in just as the instructions read on the website.

#10011 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

If you have the zip file and the extracted folder on your thumb drive that will result in the game not updating. I would try deleting the zip file from the thumb drive and updating with just the extracted folder on the drive. If that doesn't work I would format the thumb drive and extract the 1.9 update directly to the root of the thumb drive.

Quoted from pinballinreno:

The extracted folder might have the Hobbit_update folder inside it.
If so, copy and paste it outside of the containing folder, direcly onto the flash drive itself (not in a folder), then delete the left over empty folder.

Thanks to you both. That worked. Took the update out of the extracted folder and deleted the other 2 folders. Updated and ready to enjoy

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