I think the Hobbit is going to be great, due to the theme of JJP first offering which held a lot of people back, this should be the breakthrough pin for the company. I'm not a huge Hobbit fan and I wasn't a big LOTR movie fan either but good theme's for pinball, dragons, wizards, orcs and goblins. Can't wait.

I would rather they use that money for something in the game, stick to audio and voice from the film. I'm an adult and do not need to hear reference to the fact that I'm playing pinball, nice shot or you lost you're ball, who cares. Metallica as an example, so great yet ruined by the cheesy band call out's during gameplay, Xmen I love the game but cannot take the brutal voice work, just use cool clips from the films and be done with it. Just my opinion.

Man, every time I see multiple new post's I think great a video or some new pic's etc. What do I get but little kiddie arguments that do not help anyone especially the updates for The Hobbit and JJP. Please just updates for a game that we all are excited about and looking forward to adding to our collection. Please.......................

Well I had no interest in WOZ so I am new to JJP threads but have experience as I am a Predator pre-order guy and those threads are not much better believe me.

Lawlor better not joke up this pin with cheesy call outs and bad humour, I like what I saw even in the whitewood seems like its going to follow LOTR and be a little darker. Stay away Lawlor.

I see 25 new comments for updates and its just crap and complaints can we please just post updates. Damn

100's of new posts and not one relates to actual updates for TH. In fact there is more talk of WOZ than TH.

Kinda, but for some us theme is more important. Not that the game can be a total piece of crap but I would rather own Robocop than WOZ I know cost difference and gameplay but no matter how deep or well layed out a pin may be if I'm not into the theme no interest at all. I'm a TBL fan so don't get me wrong great film just not a pinball machine I would ever buy.

I have a feeling that this game is going to be great, after the lackluster showing at expo and all the crap just a gut feeling that this will be special once finished. Can't wait to get mine.

I'll most likely not have a chance to play The Hobbit LE till its in my house and same with Predator and Aliens but I have the cash and love pinball especially the new great titles and if for some reason they suck and I have to sell and take a loss, who cares?

Looks Great.

That new PF is amazing. Man it looks cool, and although I was hoping for more of Smaugs body to be represented the head is much better without that mountain back drop. I'm really happy with the look thus far, cant wait.

Hey Reality Check here's a reality check for you, you're a Douchebag. Check

This game is looking really nice, love to see some gameplay.

Do you have any games in you're collection? If you're not buying The hobbit then why do you care at all? Why are you a douchebag? Thank You

pinballs are rarely set up well at these shows and even arcades in the past. I won't know till I get it home and mess around with different pitches how the speed of the game really plays, plus lighting and background noise, let me tell you TWD is a much different experience in the home with loud volume and dim lighting. I think it looks great and hopefully gameplay follows.

I like TWD flow, yeah its fast but requires skilled shooting to bring the flow out of the game. Love STLE but quite easy to make the shots except the warp ramp, and how rewarding is it when you make that shot, especially several time in a row. The Hobbit gameplay looks great, like TWD something a little different. Very happy with that gameplay video, needs louder volume.

Any designer can use feedback, lets not forget Monopoly and Rollercoaster Tycoon etc. Anyway theme is most important and The Hobbit beats WOZ hands down. Its looking so great with that new PF and added goodies. Really looking forward to playing one. I hope Pat doesn't blow it with a cheesy or kiddie theme.

I hope so, it will depend on theme for me. No matter how good a designer may be theme is very important. I really hopes its a darker style and not rainbows and unicorns or something like that. He has had some real stinkers in the past. Time will tell.

Looks like all their jaws are a little hidden but they look cool.

Why bother speculating on gameplay from videos or quick games on a still unfinished game, especially at expos and the like. TWD was almost entirely negative upon the first plays of the pro and really almost every new release has more negative than positive, just human nature I guess but my TWDLE is amazing and I have a feeling in the right setting with proper pitch and dialed in the final game will play well.

I like the original LE myself especially now with the new PF that's enough Smaug, digging the characters on the cab and like the seaside bronze trim. The pin looks very cool, its all about gameplay now and I'm the only one who can judge that as to whether or not I like it. I liked IJ4 and hated Tron so who knows, once its home and I get 50+ plays on it a proper diagnosis can be made. Quick games at expos tells me nothing.

That pin looks amazing, not getting the negativity at all, especially considering the percentage of us who have actually played it. I'm really looking forward to this.

Haven't had a talking toy for a while in pinball so regardless of Smaug's appearance still very cool.

What?

Yeah but Rudy wears make up. I couldn't care less if Smaug eats the balls or ever touches it. Its still a cool premise and the facts the he looks around and talks to you is enough for me. That not going to make or break this game. JP really isn't all that fun and Funhouse is a great pin but not very deep. Lets just wait now and see how the final product comes together. If I get it home and dislike it then I'll sell it, take the loss and move on, its pinball, its supposed to be fun. Backing out because Smaug doesn't interact with the ball to me is foolish.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you or anyone in general, except the Rudy wears make up and that was a joke. I've seen many people state the toy was disappointing to the degree they cancelled and that's ok, just to me seems strange as that means that was the main purchase point for them. Anyway don't care really.

I can see that, I can't tell though until I have it at home and play under the right conditions. I had a fella come by today, he bought my DM and he wanted to try my TWDLE, he was quite taking with it but passed buying one based on videos and the gossip. Sometimes it works the other way too, I bought Tron based mostly on pinheads telling me its great and all the hype, it was gone in a month.

STLE is really off the charts, should be in the top 5. Yeah I'm a Startrek fan but it wouldn't matter if it was some other space sci fi theme, the speed, flow, look and sound are amazing. I personally love the modes and multiballs. The vengeance is awesome and Kilngon multiball is something special, the latest code really helped and I think after this next update STLE will become a classic. It will never dethrone TAF and MM,MB etc. but it should have already.

Are you guys kidding? The ship moves around upon being hit, lots of interactive sound that goes with , which is amazing by the way, magnet, drop target and it fires the ball back at you with the speed of WarMachine. Modes and mulitball based on that toy. It looks great? Have you guys played this game?

Agreed, name the last talking toy in a pinball machine post 2000, zero. At least with moving mouth and cool speech. Smaug's voice is great in that film and will be quite menacing during gameplay. Can't wait to see this pin completed and in action. I think it will be a sight to behold.

You're way off. I loved my IM but its not fit to carry STLE's jock strap.

IM is old news now with the release of TWD sorry but its true. With Met Pre, STLE, TWDLE borg has surpassed that game ten fold. JMO

I know. Didn't phrase it right, more that the style of speed and fast flow modern pins in the last few years has trumped IM for me. I was going to get IMVE but glad I didn't now. TWDLE is such a great pin. I'm really glad JJP did a an open concept for The Hobbit, looks very cool.

Well anything is better than what was happening on this thread. Maybe that's why? Ok back to strictly negative comments from non owners and people who have backed out. Go.

I'm hoping in five years they have all been replaced by even better pins. Sorry old timer but I think its over for the era of classics. I know most guys will disagree with that but I'm done with 90's B/W's and really any of the older pins. I tried again to enjoy some older stuff and it just felt slow and dated next to STLE and TWDLE, I think the next few years are going to bring some really great innovations and the best pins yet. Just my opinion so take it easy, go have a game of TAF or TZ, maybe highspeed relax and have a drink if need be, I'm glad if you like them. But know that its over.

wrong.

No offense Neo but we can't have this debate as we are from different worlds, believe me. Your probably a nice man so I apologize and lets leave it at that. It doesn't take me 500 games to know if I like a game or not and the explanation will not make sense to you, but I understand why you could assume your diagnosis is just, but its not. Anyway if you like the older pins and you think I'm in a lust phase or whatever, cool.

Yes, and I have something just not ADD I'm glad if your happy with your collection. The pins I really want will never be made, but a few are coming close finally so I am overly enthusiastic right now. Feel free to give me shit whenever you think I need it. Later

Not to never play again or even own just that they can't compare, its my silly opinion that's all. I know I'm in the minority but some pinsiders will agree with that statement and just don't want the backlash where as I don't mind at all. Someone has to say it. Centaur I would buy strictly for the evil factor and Funhouse is the last of the B/W I've yet to own and need to for a while, to many memories there. Like I said to CNeo no need for analyzing my comments just say that guy is whacked and move on.

I agree, listen I'm surprised in myself. I've sold off the older games in my collection as it became a case that I had to like them due to being classics and all that, yet I play only the new stuff. Its goes the other way to my friend, I know a lot of guys who hate the new Sterns and I'm cool with that we can't agree on everything, yeah the B/W's 90's stuff is great but like the classic video games which I also tried to like again, built a whole mame cab and have AL's 3 yet I'll play Batman Arkham City or Darksiders its tough to go and enjoy DKong. Lets leave this alone now, I should have never posted that.

You won't admit it but you went into your game time with bias, we can't all like the same thing and now you know how I feel about Tron, Ugh. Back to Hobbit, really torn on whether or not to get the SE, I kinda like the seaside bronze amour and now with that fantastic Smaug pic on the playfield wouldn't mind the OG art which is kinda cool. Mmmmm

I thought that at first with my STLE the same shots but in the last code it varies more, and hopefully continues in the final update. TWDLE I love right away in its early code, STLE is growing on me big time. Seems to be better once I put TWDLE beside it? I don't know, I want my Hobbit.

Depends on the girl.

I would have liked a full bodied Smaug but that's not going to happen, this pin will shine in a home environment, in the wild usually sucks for pinball, not set up right, low volume bright room. As for TWD Its a tough theme to implement into pinball, the show is a drama not sure what they could have done. I like the gameplay and ruleset, might have been ruined if they went crazy trying to bring in all the actors over the span of the show. Its great, a survival based pin.

Stern was smart to release IM VE before TWD, TWD beats up IM pretty good. Listen I love IM and have owned it more than once, was going to get VE but really glad I held off as TWD is a much better game. IronMonger is cool but next Vengeance nothing special at all.

What do you know? You like the family guy. That's funny, well its not funny but thinking its funny is funny. I like IM too.

Yeah but the sides are never even really seen, and the front of the LE is better looking with Gandalf and Gollum, the gold trim is nice but prefer the seaside bronze. I'm just glad we have options. Either way what a great looking pin.

I want to see Smaug interaction and by that obviously not physical interaction with the ball but following it around the playfield speaking at me, really haven't had anything like that since Rudy, I know there has been moving heads and figures that speak but the moving jaws and coolness of his voice seem to be neglected when taking in all the aspects of gameplay. Might not be full body or look as good as it should, personally it looks great to me, this could really be something special just want to see it action.

Remember looks can be very deceiving, one look at AFM and you would never think its a great game, same with many others so toys, highly populated playfields with all kinds of extra crap do not guarantee a great playing pin, IM is pretty bare bones but fun as hell. I'm seeing something unique and interesting when I look at it, gameplay cannot be judged at this point and for me not till I get it home, so we are going strictly by cosmetics right now. The controlled drop targets and pop ups will allow for what I believe will be some great gameplay. Code will dictate whether this pin is a real winner or not, just can't see it being a dud but time will tell.

I certainly don't disagree but what can we do about it? With all the other crap going on with boutique pins and TDWLE while a fantastically fun pin didn't blow me away in terms of toys and cosmetics I'm just happy its happening and regardless of Smaug's appearance the game looks beautiful if gameplay is on point then should be great.

I do. There's a great pin waiting to be made The Exorcist. "The power of Christ compels you" A 360 degree spinning head that you smash and green vomit appears, It might seem like I'm kidding but if someone makes it, I'm in. Exorcist LE sorry no premiums.

Toys do not make a great pinball, and lower playfields for the most part are very boring and interrupt gameplay. I like and really enjoy that Jack has gone to a more open and once set up I think fast game. If every pin was like TZ I would be very unhappy. IM and AFM are quite baron but awesome, layout and rules is really what leads to greatness. We won't know till its in our homes and a few months go by. I prefer speed and flow over stop and go, some guys like stop and go, I like both. JMO

DM, STTNG in fact if you set up the game just right with a high pitch but still able to hits the ramps you can make pretty much any game fast. The open playfield style helps as well, my Data East games always seemed slow but I used to put Stern legs on the back that are already longer then an inch on the leg levelers and instantly transformed into speed demon, my JD was fast as hell.

I don't understand?

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Don't understand why so many still speculate on gameplay as its been proven time and time again that the only real way to judge a new pin is for us to get it home, set it up, play it for a month or two in the right atmosphere with good volume and a better understanding of the rules than you could ever get from these video's. Yes, if a camera is set up correctly and you can watch a well played game with the rules explained as it goes then its a lot easier to make a judgment, aka The predator. That video solidified my commitment to that pin, even though the companies communication sucks. We haven't seen shit with regards to The Hobbit and the gameplay yet the term boring keeps popping up, if I recall some of the best pins of the 2000's received utterly awful first impressions and now have become sought after dare I say classics. For me anyway I cannot make an honest assessment without playing it myself, and in the right environment, the WOZ sound in the background would be enough to affect my perception that's for sure. See what a couple coffee's can do, I'm babbling.

I have such a positive feeling about TH it terms of it being a fantastic pin, ofcourse know one knows anything yet but just a gut feeling of greatness, I hope I'm right.

Great news.

Like bombs in MM. I could see that as one use.

Wow, how can all you guys judge this game before we have even had a chance to play it? Ironman and Tron by appearance alone look pretty dull and they are highly sought after, many other games seem baron but man the rules make them great and your ready to bury this pin because it doesn't have all the stuff that WOZ has on the PF, a populated PF with flashy toys does not encapsulate a great pinball machine.

I don't want to sound like an jerk but I can afford to buy anything I want, what's wrong with that? If I don't like it then I'll sell it but to bash it before you know for sure whether or not its a good game is just plain foolish. I have bought many games that I tried out and figured I'll like this in my collection yet it lasted only months before I realized it wasn't for me, ex. AC/DC Pre. Look at how many games have been out for years and all of a sudden become great must have pinballs, ones that we all have played before and maybe missed the magic, I don't know and I won't know till I get The Hobbit home to really find out what the game is all about, to judge based solely on appearance is ridiculous.

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I agree, and its not gold coins but a very valuable manure pit in my backyard that I reap the benefits from. I get it and of course critique is a positive thing as shown by all the improvements made to the original pin. We all want it to be the case that the game is playable and ready for distribution prior to any money changing hands but that's not the case and I will say that if I didn't have the manure pit then I wouldn't be buying any NIB pinballs.

I'm not a big Hobbit or LOTR's fans but its still much better to me than most themes out there and PL's pin will most likely be a very family friendly happy time theme and that doesn't appeal to me so I'm in for the long haul. If PL's game ends up being a must have its still a year or longer away. I have a gut feeling TH will be something special.

How about PL doing the original Trilogy of StarWars. Now that's something I would be interested in. I would love even an original space themed pin from Pat, Sci Fi is great for pinball.

Well I'm used to buying Stern LE's that don't exactly trump TH in terms of playfield and toys hence price seems fair to me, although obviously high but what else is new with NIB pins these days. Sorry but trying to compare the simplistic PF's of IM and Tron with what TH looks like right now is craziness. JMO

I'm loving the original LE look of Smaug plus I dig the armor as well, glad I stuck with it.

Have to agree, the theme alone already makes it a better WOZ.

I've never understood this on pinside either I'm not buying a TBL and thus I really have zero interest in the pin's development and progress, don't get me wrong I want everyone who ordered it to get the pin and meet all their expectations but since I'm not buying, who gives a shit. I certainly wouldn't go on those threads and talk trash. Anyway back to the Hobbit which is looking great to me and I can't wait to get it in my house.

Its close and being a Predator customer makes this scenario of being delayed a little something to be happy about, I know I'm getting this pin, hey that might be the good part of the crap that has transpired with some of the boutique companies. I just have a feeling that this game will blow me away, can't explain it but its there. Now I dance.

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I fine with the way it looks right now, I think it looks beautiful and love the open concept. Really looking forward to playing this pin.

I think he means more pictures, videos of gameplay and a lot more first impressions.

Exactly. Same thing on Predator, now yes its a shitstorm but I don't go to JPOP or TBL threads, not a pre-order so who cares.

What? R U for real. I posted a video regarding drinking and posting, and I go on those threads as I like to see what Jpop and DP, Spooky etc. pinballs are looking like but I don't post negative comments nor do I really care if those games are made, I want everyone to get them but I'm not in so why bother. I think you really blew it on your attempt to establish me as a interested party with zero interest in project.

It looks amazing, looking forwarding to seeing this in the darkness of my lair. Gameplay seems fast and equally impressive.

I think with Skit B, JPOP and DP we should be a little more tolerable of JJP delay's. The bottom line is that the pin looks great and it will be built and shipped fairly soon but at least it will be made. I'm hoping to have my by the end of the year and thats just fine with me.

Yes, but for a while it looked like the whole thing might implode.

Boy is that stupid, toys do not make the game and how about every drop target being controlled seperatley, thats a lot of toys.

What else is new, I remember back in the arcade days pins were always set up like shit. Why? Also something was always broken and then you would go back a week later and it was still broken. I really appreciate being able to play in a nice dark room with good volume and set up to my liking while drinking a cold beer and enjoying other spirits with buddies in the combfort of my own home. Arcades and pool halls, bowling alley's etc. are definetly a thing of the past for me. RobT is quite right in saying at these shows with the potential to sell machines it should be set up to perfectly for maxium speed and flow.

Yeah but PL's game is easily a year or 2 away so why not enjoy The Hobbit in the mean time and then sell it towards Pats if its a must have. It could be something your not even interested in, I'm looking forward to what animations will be like without a movie to show clips from could be great. I also don't want a kids game with a overly family friendly theme, I want it for those of you with families but a cool space/sci fi theme which is still family friendly would be amazing, time will tell.

What are saying that we will become aware of Pats game soon and within a year is will be available? or the other way that 2 years is still too soon to expect a finished PL JJP game.

I hope your right but I would say The Hobbit is still being built and shipped 1Q16.

I'm ok with waiting but I'm not ok with waiting then finding out it won't be made and then not getting a refund promptly. At least TH will eventually be in my home.

Any mode based game is going to get boring after time, I don't care what pin it is. I loved my STLE but after a year and achieving the final mode I was done with it, The Hobbit will be the same but I've said it before its a game and all games become boring eventually. The Hobbit looks great and 30 modes is a plus for sure rather than any kind of minus, however if your looking at it in terms of longevity then very few pins are keepers, unless you have unlimited space and money or ofcourse a magical theme that really captures you (even though I haven't played and unless it turns out terrible Aliens LE is most likely a keeper), TWDLE as well but thats more a theme thing than gameplay. The issue regarding sparse playfield is just plain garbage, MB which is loaded with stuff became tedious in a few short weeks for me but AFM lasted a year. Its taken me 5 years of buying and selling pins (60+) to realize my real passion lies in the 80's era, they seem to have more lastibility than any other for the sheer fact that they challenge you but marathon games and wizard modes are non-existent, great for a quick game and quick fun. JMO mind you and 2 coffee's has me babbling. Later

Are sure she's calling you that or something else attached to you? Mmmmm

Better that Stern does the first film, if JJP is doing well and making pins after the next 2 films years from now then JJP for the trilogy but the ultimate for me would JJP doing the classic Trilogy that most of us grew up on.

Looking forward to seeing this pin played in a dark room, the colors and lighting look amazing and the gameplay is looking great as well. Did anyone get an actual time frame for production?

I think they need the formula for transparent aluminum.

Wrong, they gave him the formula for transparent aluminum to get the 8 or 9 inch plexiglass. Geek test win.

I like the LE better myself but is all personal preference, the seaside bronze looks cooler than the gold for me, side art? unless its in the center of a room who cares, mine will be wedged between 2 other pins, never really cared about the cabinet and would rather a blank cab and an extra interactive toy on the playfield anyday.

Thats the ticket.

Have to agree, loved my LOTR's and yeah a vault edition would be a nice pin to add to the collection but I played the shit out of mine, why bother comparing the two as its really apples and oranges. As for the films I don't really follow either series or find the movies all that great but good theme for pinball. JM and The Shadow were crap movies but 2 of my favorite DMD's. I think The Hobbit is going to be great.

I like the seaside bronze more than the gold, LE for me.

Go talk cars somewhere else, this is for The Hobbit regardless if there is new news or not.

Thats exactly what I have with my distributor here in Toronto, I can back out anytime or pruchase once they have them in stock.

But you posted a video, it must be removed and then you must have a bath in pure vinegar. I recommend then listening to Slayer or Motorhead as a means to redeem yourself. Thank you for your co-operation.

I don't want to sound callus but I don't really care what Jack has to say regrding JPOP or Stern or any other manufacturer, if The Hobbit plays as good as it looks with a talking dragon and four pop ups, LCD and a great rule set then I'm in, as for Jacks personality? Who gives a shit.

I've never read the letter, where is it?

Wrong, TWD LE/Pre had a few inserts and nothing in the GI. R u working for Stern?

I just lose interest after years of waiting, really even a year is too long.

I think Jack knows that enough die hard pinheads will make an early deposit on JJP #3 simply due to the fact thats its Pat Lawlor. Will it be required? I doubt it, as an original theme hopefully means less expenses and time with all the license crappola, if so will people be pissed? either way there will be complaints, I wish Stern would go back to original themes, don't we all? I mean some licensed themes are great (Aliens) but I would rather have The Hobbit be Orcs and Knights vs Elves or whatever, leave it open for the designer to create, I believe pinball has lost that element and needs to get it back.

Do you mean to say it sucks, because that song and that band suck. JMO

No I don't. STLE is still the best pin I've owned and Hobbit update, no idea what your saying?

As a musician I have to say its really bad playing, I'm open to many kinds of music but that's bad, and not in a good way. Hey if you like it then all the power to ya.

But Nirvana and The Doors are actually good, I really don't care.

Yeah it does, and that band sucks. Radiohead would be an example of a great band, but I'm not going to waste anymore time, you guys probably like this guy too, and you know what, he sucks.

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Thats what happened to me, I think the game looks great but I recently backed out as I just don't care anymore. Still, I will probably pick one up second hand in the years to come.

Threads often get derailed when theres nothing to update regarding the product itself. Well there is the selling of translites in the JJP store but otherwise?