What Jack said is that they would have games 'done' by Dec, which they did, at least proto's and sample games at shows, in several countries.
The feedback there was more on art packages and decal material, there was a significant playfield art change (or it was probably in the works for a while) at Expo Oct 2014, and there was also a slight modification to the entry into the pops, with the "book" becoming an Lcd in the back right corner.
Have you ordered one? Are you on the JJP group or just a pinsider content guy - we hear a lot more as owners over there or I hear it from talking to Jack directly at a show or by phone

See the 500 other posts on the score thingy.

Spooky did

These are funny comments on the scoring - Lyman made MM a 60 million good score, people wants more - so Monster bash had 600 mil as a good score. More, more - so Attack has 6000 mill (6 billion).
It was his coding joke, that if you want another zero to feel better about getting a lot of points - fine, here's your 10x or 100x. I've talked to Lyman about this - and it was purposeful to show how silly the concept.
KEF and Jack wanted a simple to understand 1000,000 as a good score. You know when Glinda is giving you 2000 while pops and slings give 10 or 100, that shots are worth different points - get a multiball or mode going, theres lots of points. Easy

Keith choose the score levels purposefully. Jack likes the concept too. The decision was made years ago.

The ramps are fine, the shots flow well. It doesn't take a "perfect" shot.

Jack told me at the Expo reveal, that Woz was right around 300 lbs, and Hobbit (which they showed the PF and it looked about the same as this final), was 340-350lbs (at least as of last fall - and I can't think its changed much)

My 2 cents is the line is ready, but vendor parts timing and quality are not in JJP control. I was on the phone with him just 3 weeks ago and he had a story about a vendor had not packed well, but thankfully nothing was broken (but they hadn't unloaded and unboxed it all yet as of our phone call), and it wasn't the first time with this vendor. Jack tells us what he knows, but he doesn't know what he doesn't know regarding vendors delivering (in all uses of that word).

Jack's not quiet, he's just not talking on Pinside. Why bother? It only brings negative posts regardless of the "news".

Best answer seems to be "soon". Which parts, and in what quantities, are at JJP? The past 5 months discussion boils down to parts on hand. Last pic was of backglasses arriving - was that part 3000 of 3000, or part 2500 of 3000?

What are the feelings about the vendor/supplier issues based on the seminar presentation and Q/A's.
1. Are the quality of parts ok now and are vendors supplying in quantities to build games?
2. Are all parts coming in for a least complete parts sets to build entire games?

Seems most of the past 4 month delays have been blamed on "can't control" issues on those two questions - did Jack and team get specific on either question, or is it still generic answers?

I'm hoping to have a choice later, had to bail on my pre-order for financial changes since day 1 order 11/2012, I am WoZ RR #7. Jack's post google.group owners post from today sounds very positive, feedback heard, but improvements cost 6 months.
Per Jack....
"We did not do a good job with The Hobbit before Expo. We believed we could do better and Expo was the proof that we needed to go back and make the game better. Unfortunately that caused issues with design elements of the game and of course it caused delay and redesign. We underestimated the time we needed to make the changes.

We know what we did after Expo made the game a lot better. You told us that. That “little” series of changes over a few weeks caused at least six months delay - that is all types of drawings, not only art but mechanical design drawings, wiring, parts that had to change, retooling, redesign after testing, first article parts, approvals, on and on….time and money spent to make the game better. We are selling more Hobbits every week as more people get to see and play it now. As they ship we will sell many more."

Why do pinsders behave this way? I had permission. Apology is in order.

Thanks BB. Good point, I should have said w/Jacks ok. I prefer someone asking "did you have an ok" rather assume the worst, try assuming the benefit of the doubt. More of a general feeling that pinside seems to assume the glass is nearly empty v. half full.

I met you at MGC KingPin, what can you tell me about TH delivery?

Guys, listen to the mod please?! Lets get back to worrying about the Hobbit delivery date

Wow, ignored.

Has anyone heard any callouts at Pintastic or elsewhere, with the Gandalf talent? Which guy did they hire? THere were quite a few youtube links to some great options, and I think the majority here liked the Youtube guy of a thousand voices - who seems to be the fav by a large margin.

A voice callout post, or some update news on that front might get us through July!
Then we just have to limp along until Aug 29 when the thread will explode.

Ah Damn. All the playfields were made upside down. There goes another 3 months

Given all the speculations about PF being ruined by all the speculators in this thread...
Where are you getting these pictures?

What the heck does

What does your drunken talent have to do with a Hobbit update??

I've talked to Jack about that one, and Jack was really upset about taken content from the owners group and sharing with non-owners on Pinside. It would be nice if people typed the facts, from talking to the guy directly, rather than heresay and speculation.

JP DeWin talent's are excellent. I'm extremely happy with what Keith, JP and Ted have done with video integration on both JJP games so far.

I'm in since day 1, November 30 2012. I'm in the first 50 that will go out the door.

Since then I ordered and Rec'd AMH (ordered 10/18/2014, rec'd April 6 2015), I ordered and Rec'd GoT LE (ordered 10/19/2015, rec'd 12/6/2015), Had 4 Dutch Pinball BoP 2.0 software upgrades, ordered/Rec'd Star Trek LE; Spooky on list June 2015, deposit 12/2015, expect mid-2016?. I get it, The Hobbit has taken a long time. I'm ok waiting.

If you don't like waiting on an unknown, don't buy before you see it, know others have one, and you have played it.

I talked to Jen 1/8/16. I know a lot more details than what I read here, and a lot of the speculation, accusations, and downright wrong "facts" are laughable.

Here's what I know, X games are done. many more times X is number of PFs on the line, 12 cabinets we ready for PF (we saw that in an accuracte photo above), there will be more extensive testing and more testing time than WoZ before the 1st x are shipped. I left out numbers, b/c whats the point and I promised Jen I wouldn't.

I know, because of chats with Jen and Jack and Keith, that we only see bits and photos of bits b/c there is only downside - because Pinsiders parse every photo, every word, 24/7. What's the advantage of showing anything to anyone, except direct communication with the first 10-50 customers getting games? None, nothing but downside.

Rarely are there 10% of more positive reactions to an email update, photo or comment made by Jack at a show. Its 90% negative comments - e.g.; that's all you are gonna reveal? when will there be more? Delays? Fights with vendors? slow = not enough $? Skip a show in London = not enough $?

How much exageration and downright slams were there, when the test game was sent to Jason in MN for a party - it gave JJP some valuable feedback for tweaks for final production - yet many said the first game has shipped! Look Nov 2015! Geez! Even clarification from Jack on the facts? Didn't matter, speculation continued.

Its our own fault that we don't see pinside or public news. I get way more information when I call about my order, than I'm going to share here, or that any wise pinsider bothers with the effort to add a comment or post about it.

dup

Or, isn't is possible lowpeg could be wrong?

Nothing will boost peoples confidence - just generates more questions. Why should Jack bother? IIRC, didn't Jack kick you from the google owners group forum - I can't help but think there is some bias in your posts.

Yes, that's what Jen told me, and it was a day 1 order

Um, post #192. I hope I'm wrong....(there's a first time for everything).

I'm not going to defend Jack, just to defend him. Saying he missed an estimated date is lying has 2 flaws - how is missing an estimated date, a lie? and you know Jack's intent was to lie, mislead to keep people from running - how can you know Jack's intent?

Two questions:
1. are you pre-ordered on TH?
2. have you talked to Jen or Jack about any of your concerns?

I repeat b/c you conveniently avoided...

Questions:
1. are you pre-ordered on TH? (If not, why do you care about this update thread)
2. have you talked to Jen or Jack about any of your concerns? (otherwise its all speculation on dates, intent, facts)
3. unless you have news from talking to JJP directly, its just bitching and off topic to this update thread (so why repeat it so many times?), perhaps start a new thread on Jacks ethics.

I'll use the 'ignore button' to fix my problem with it and save time for everyone else reading my reaction posts

My WoZ has had 2 problems, fixed easily, with good customer service and reaction time. I had 3 calls to LTD and Frank trying diagnose a monitor issue, and a sound issue. They sent out a new video board, but ultimately is was some wire connections and the wires themselves to dvI and the sound bass speaker. The good part was they stayed on it over a period of 4 days, to make sure it got fixed, and as soon as possible. To me, the "not give up" attitude really made me appreciate that I wouldn't be on my own to get it done - they were as committed to getting it up and running as if it were their machine.

The complexity for my stuff was actually pretty complex problem, but easy to fix with a new connection, cord, and board. Shipping the one back was painless too. All the parts needed, were there, and arrived in 2 days, installed and diagnosed and tested the day they arrived with Frank on the line making sure it all worked.

My 2 Stern warranty fixes were the same experience, parts on hand, but no personal time on the phone, but didn't need any.

Spooky was the best customer experience ever, two quick fixes, Charlie knew the issue & fix and personally walked me through the cause, fix and test. Twice. When the owner, who built the machine on the line, and handled the support call, can help walk through the fix personally? - hard to beat that.

I talked to Jen today and good news. Mine is coming in March.

Silverball Museum and Allen's game are likely delivered with the understanding of test focused, two very hands-on operators in public places with lots of plays, and an operator onsite to fix and feedback to JJP immediately, so consider them test locations in my opinion. And worst case, close to JJP techs if an on-site is needed for diagnostics or tough fixes. I'm glad those will get hundreds of plays and feedback to the factory before my game goes in a box.

There are 70 on the line in various stages of assembly, they have another 1-2 weeks of testing before shipping, but several dozen will be ready for boxing and shipping when they feel testing is complete.

Why is testing taking weeks? My thinking re: type of testing at this point is small tweaks to position of wiring harnesses, does shipping affect things that we could tie wrap here, or another fastener under the PF or cabinet for a cleaner look or easier servicing. Something as simple as a connector to the PC boards (like that dang speaker connector on the WoZ board) which comes loose during boxing or shipping, can be found, fixed and avoid headaches for them and us.

Jen told me today, that either Friday, or early next week. Im a regular customer too.

In the house! Rainy day, but a little sunshine in a box arrived today.
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Great video. There is one mode I'd like to get on film, but my video skills suck. I've also had the game 2 months now, and uploaded 1.10 last night. What a riot. What will be great on film is the 5 ball MB combo smaug/beast frenzy: very intense, and for anyone who said the PF was too open, I challenge you to try to shoot the 10+ smaug jackpots with 4 random beasts popping in and out of the PF, and hit Thorin for supers without getting hosed by the goblin or orc. I swear Keith even put in the logic to know when a ramp shot is coming back to the left flipper, to pop the warg so you can't combo with the right orbit - there are so many ways to mess with the player - and Keith is taking advantage of any/all ways to mess you up, block a shot, and time it so you almost have time (but never do) to hit that second shot without something in the way. Brilliant so far.

Scores are much higher now. There are many more assets in 1.10 vs. 1.01. There must be a ton more which I expect each version will roll out. 1.10 likely has only a small fraction of the assets - even its 50% now, there will be so much more on the way.

There are still 2 obvious major things missing - mode completion points and a hold-flipper-for-status-report.

What level of awesomeness will it be at by version 6.0???!!!

Loving v1.21 - EB at 50k and 100k, so not as impressive but still 3,818,853
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I think I'm getting the hang of this new code.

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Get the Escalara. I've moved many a pin up and down the basement stairs, with a 90 degree turn. I moved hobbit and woz BY MYSELF with this thing (not recommended, but did it anyway). TH was pf and cab separate, just because it's so darn heavy. Believe me - it's worth it. I'm 54 now, and saving the back is worth the $$$. Larry kitchen is great - get one from him and mention my name - he's at flipnout pinball.

Now, where is that new code?

I trust Keith and Ted aren't done. I think Keefer knows what he is doing. If 31 modes aren't varied enough, sell hobbit and buy 5 Stern to get your 31 modes back. Even then, you might find Tron or LOTR limited by the zero drop targets. (I own Woz , TH and 7 Sterns - so not bashing any of them )

You are the first I've heard saying TH modes are too similar.