(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update

By B9

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 years ago by GravitaR
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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider chessiv.
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#560 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Just not enough detail to work with, on top of which the jpeg compression isn't helping. I laid it over the blueprint, it's blurry, but it does give you a sense of how things are shifting a bit as they work with the whitewood.

hobbit.png 425 KB

Enhance...

#592 9 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

PS4 is the clear choice.

Muppets???

haha

5 months later
#1649 9 years ago
Quoted from B9:

from the email
"We are currently building 75th Anniversary and Standard WOZ games as we prepare to change over to The Hobbit in late December! "
looks like production won't start until late December

It's always three months away.

1 week later
#1901 9 years ago

If you put three people on ignore this thread would lose about 5 pages

-3
#2017 9 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

I absolutely agree on everything you said. I was just stating the license differences and the likely much more freedom given to TBL vs Hobbit. Hand-drawn original artwork? Who WOULD'NT want that? Stay tuned for Lawlor's original theme...that should be what we're asking for creatively.

The hobbit movies are drawn out and boring. Doesn't mean the pin won't be great but Peter Jackson can't seem to make a great movie.

#2025 9 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

chessiv stated an opinion as though it were fact. I felt it was right to show that a plurality of people disagree with his opinion.

How did I state it was fact? Of course it's my opinion. Loving or hating a movie is only a matter of opinion.

#2052 9 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

You guys are not thinking innovation. New stuff to push the envelope. That's what I'm talking about!

A mail truck?

2 months later
#3491 9 years ago

Didn't Jack say contractually the pin had to be finished by the last movie release?

1 month later
#4070 9 years ago
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:

It's barley January. Give it a bit.

Beer month?

2 weeks later
#4339 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

More is definitely not always better. It might sound nice in theory, who doesn't want more gameplay? But in practice it's definitely not true.
If I had one complaint about Keefer's games it would be that they can be somewhat overwhelming, in the sense that there's so many things to do, and so much to grind through, that you can decide to walk past the machine because you're just not up for such an epic attempt.
I know a lot of LOTR and TSPP owners who absolutely love their games, don't want to sell them, will tell you how awesome they are, and yet ... they don't actually play them. Because they know that if they step to it they're in for a seriously long and involved game.
Now we don't know how these modes work yet. But Star Trek's 18 are a lesson in how more of the same isn't all that. You need variety, not just numbers.
I'm not down on Hobbit specifically, we don't have even the barest insight into the rules and what that grid means. I'm just saying that in general there gets to be a point where "more modes" doesn't always equal a better game.

I couldn't agree more. I love LOTR. I'm not a big TSPP fan because when I owned it I never saw anything past the first wizard mode. I know there was a ton of stuff past it but given my skill I would never see it. I don't mind that I've seen everything in LOTR but valinor, that keeps me coming back. Tspp was too much.

2 weeks later
#4476 9 years ago

The third movie release? Remember it had to be released, contractually mind you, by the end of last year. Then a typical "three month" delay was announced. Probably to be followed by another three month delay. IMO, I'm surprised everyone hasn't realized by now you can't trust any delivery dates out of JJP. When the first group of customers gets their machines you should have yours within a year. Give or take three months

#4494 9 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:

No. Wrong. That's pure conjecture. Show me where JJP ever stated a contractual obligation.

Wrong again. Once production begins, JJP will ship approximately 50 games per week.

Can someone please explain to me why people obsess over production dates when they're not buying the game? I just don't get it. Am I interested in TBL? Yes! From what I've seen, the game looks pretty amazing. Do I want to see Skit-B make a fun pin in Predator. Of course. Here is what you won't see: me in one of those threads complaining about when Skit-B will ship its game. Why would I do that when I'm not "in" on the pin? Join a sewing circle, why don't you...and bitch to the house fraus!

Since everyone else corrected you I won't bother. Facts suck sometimes and I understand certain people don't want to hear them but they remain facts.

#4502 9 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Are you guys saying that someone may have been fibbing about a contractual obligation?

The surprising part to me is not that some people think JJP may mislead it's customers about delivery dates but that some people still believe they tell the truth. How many promised delivery dates did JJP miss? A few towards the end are understandable. The promises that were greater than a year out?? I still get a kick out of the video were Jack was talking to someone at MPE. If he played in a poker game and bluffed that poorly everyone would take him to the cleaners. People are not paying attention or they so badly want JJP to do well they completely ignore any negative. I'm sure there are lots of people on both sides.

#4505 9 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I don't think the missed delivery dates matter anymore now that JJP has not only shipped all 1000 LE's but also completed an extremely deep ruleset for the game very quickly. The success of the game, its sales, its frequent code updates, earnings and fun factor now far outweigh the delayed shipping discussion.
As someone who owns a WOZ I can see why it took JJP so long. 3 years isn't really that long considering that they started from nothing and managed to build a machine that blows anything else away in terms of what you get for the money.

The promises from Jack go to honesty and can be used as a general rule whenever Jack gives info. If you guys that have machines on order don't care that you don't get accurate info then it really doesn't matter.

2 weeks later
#4626 9 years ago

Does anyone feel that JJP appreciates other pinball drama deflecting from the fact that the machines are late again and no one is paying attention?

#4639 9 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Fair enough. But why the criticism over when the game is being released? Why would anybody care who doesn't have a dime into it? You don't generally hear people with pre-orders whining about the game not being out yet. They care more about the quality than the release date.

It says a lot about the company. The problems with Woz, delays etc weren't supposed to happen with hobbit. They supposedly had all of those types of issues resolved. Yet, here we are and get delays again similar to Woz. Why? Based on recent pics the design hasn't changed. It will be fine if the machines start coming out in april. But if not, why not?

And this is a pinball forum. Pinball news is interesting to all people interested in pinball and therefore worthy of discussion. The premise of you don't have one or you aren't on a preorder so you can't say anything is not a reasonable statement. Hobbit is still a preorder machine and with all the issues going on with other preorders it's not unreasonable to discuss.

#4641 9 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Sorry. I just don't see it... ...Feel free to criticize what you didn't like about it, but STFU about when the game is going to be released because it's clearly none of your concern.

Sorry, this is a pinball forum. Not crapping on anything. Discussing a pinball machine that was supposed to be out last year, by contract, but still isn't out. Just because you don't like part of the discussion doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed. You are free to ignore my comments and should probably do so.

#4644 9 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I ignore nobody because I'm interested in everybody's opinion...whether I agree or not. At least TH will be out very soon. Have we heard about TBL since the financial meltdown? Let's all head over to that thread and crap on them instead. Or the Predator thread for that matter.

And lots of people are commenting about both situations that don't have a machine ordered. So maybe you should go to those threads and stop everyone there too.

4 weeks later
#5535 8 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Blog.. you keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means...

Kineda?

2 weeks later
#5929 8 years ago

The guy who does the video really does excellent work.

2 weeks later
#6107 8 years ago

The question becomes do you want more bs delivery dates or no updates? Which is actually more frustrating? With jjp if you put money down you have to understand you get your pin when you get it, you won't know when that is but it most certainly will not be the original date promised.

#6142 8 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

Anyone remember the distributor(s) that took orders, but never sent the money to the game makers?
One distributor had to scramble when there were not enough games available.
The other distributor, well, made a lot of Aussies very unhappy.

Remember it well I do. Funny thing is I know the real story behind the first example and that distrib didn't tell the truth about the matter.

#6182 8 years ago
Quoted from iamabearsfan:

Jack is an optimist.

Sorry, I have to call BS on this. An optimist says a machine will be out next month and delivers the machine a month or two late. Someone who is dishonest says the machines will be done in three months knowing there is no way they will in order to keep the customer's cash. Just watch the MPE video where he's asking when WOZ will ship. What a horrible poker face.

It's time people stop trying to excuse Jack's poor behavior and dishonesty. When you buy from JJP you know not to listen to anything said by Jack. You'll know what machine you're going to get when it's delivered. Many people love the machines and that cool. Stop making excuses for him. He is who he is. Quite frankly it's better he says nothing than to be dishonest IMO.

1 month later
#6677 8 years ago
Quoted from maf-mi:

I took my money off the horse in this race and put in on another horse that has already been delivered. Couldn't be happier.

IMG_1892_2.jpg

Funny. I also bought a convertible mustang and installed new suspension, brakes, exhaust, wheels and a supercharger. All with pinball cash =)

stang.pngstang.png

#6729 8 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

03b74c9b6adcb477fcff5ac2ac6836d887c5c36afab39b2c9ec09aae1e57dbe3.jpg

Making more friends one comment at a time. Well, unless you own a jeep and have probably burned to death

#6736 8 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Did you mean to quote me? I'm not sure what you mean.

Adding to your comment about our gregarious friend

-2
#6738 8 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Why? It's not like I don't have a complete understanding of what the car is, and what it is not. This is 100% pure unadulterated muscle! Nothing like it. Did I mention 707 horsepower from the factory?
I've owned plenty of great handling cars, like the Lotus Exige S and a Porsche Spyder (and a Third Gen RX-7 before those). Great fun! Love the handling of both of those cars. Both will *easily* out handle the Hellcat. Duh.
But neither one of them has anywhere close to the raw power that the Hellcat delivers. If you don't think that kind of raw power can't give you as much of an adrenaline rush as a slower but great handling car, I don't know what to tell you.
» YouTube video

Love the lime green. Although I will say the P85D in insane mode has a crazy amount of acceleration. It's really quick, just not fast.

#6832 8 years ago

A picture of all of the parts waiting to be assembled would be cool. A ton of drop target banks, etc.

1 week later
#6961 8 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Unfortunately it wouldn't matter how his apology was written to some people on here as they will never support JJP.

And no matter how poorly Jack treats people some here will always apologize for him.

#7017 8 years ago
Quoted from John_in_NC:

Someone once again, took his conversation meant for a whole different audience and threw it up here to feed the trolls.

Ah. So it's written for fanboys and they think it's a good post? The koolaid is definitely spiked if that's the case.

#7020 8 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

If JJ was in huge trouble they wouldn't have made all those improvements to the Hobbit. They would have pulled a Stern. Instead, they made the Hobbit great. If they were in huge trouble, they wouldn't be developing Lawlor's game. I hear thats swimming along. I think it's been rough, but they have a chance of making some money once they build the first run of Hobbits. I think they will sell as much as 3000 by next Xmas. It's that ground breaking. And then there is Lawlors game. I'm a huge fan, so I have high hopes.

Time will tell.

#7028 8 years ago
Quoted from John_in_NC:

So which smartass will be the first to show their true colors and maturity and beat me up for calling it like it is and my call for peace...

Irony.

#7096 8 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

So they are going to stop running WoZ and run some Hobbits, then switch back to WoZ again?
Some of you have been to their facility, can they run 2 titles on their production line at the same time?

I'm not buying that there's a market for 700-800 more high priced woz machines (meaning higher than the pre-order price.)

#7140 8 years ago
Quoted from Rick432:

Late August/early September 2015.

It's always three months. When he misses a three month deadline it's three more months. Been this way for years now.

#7155 8 years ago
Quoted from Chippewa-Pin:

I'm sure Jack is feeling the pressure to get TH out from the pinball community/distributors and maybe it is close to production, but fulfilling WOZ orders brings in new money which seems like is really needed. I am and always have been a supporter of JJP (bought WOZ-love it!!/TH looks even better/will probably be in on #3), but stating a 2 month estimate to shipping sounds too far off to make me think it's close to being set in stone. Would anyone be surprised if that turned into Oct/Nov?
Adding a second line seems inevitably. There are costs to doing that though and no room for production issues with a new line and/or training new employees. Somehow Jack needs to get caught up so he can run new releases on one line and use the second line for more WOZ & TH orders.

Now the machines are slated for October. Expo is in October and I agree, he will probably show pats machine at expo. He previously said he wouldn't take preorder money for pats pins, but here's my guess/opinion for how it will work. He will ask for a "small" deposit of 2 grand (in this range anyway.) people will go crazy for a pat pin and pay it. That money will be used to produce hobbit. New hobbits off the line will go to new money, people without previous deposits. People with money down won't be seeing their pins this year. Probably starting next year, another three months.

Now, Thumbs-down away fanboys but this is based on previous history and the changing promises and missed deadlines from jjp.

#7231 8 years ago

And pins were not 9k back then either. It makes much more economic sense today. Plus a few years ago there were lots of swep1 playfields for sale. Not so much anymore.

#7326 8 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

You are both wrong. He was seriouslyjoking.

2015-07-17_222717.png2015-07-17_222717.png

4 weeks later
#7592 8 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I want to thank you for an honest assessment of Tron from somebody who is clearly a fan. It's nice to see some insightful opinion without the emotional drama.

I bought a nib tron and the music was definitely horrible for the game. The disc was kind of fun but there wasn't anything else there. I have a tron arcade, discs of tron arcade and the pinball was going to round it out. I sold it.

#7610 8 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

You've got to be joking. The music is awesome. TRON LE has probably the best sound/music package of any pin. Daft Punk multiball music is epic.

The daft punk music is very repetitive. If you like their music you'll be happy. I don't

#7756 8 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Love the "improved" Pinside that does not show that you successfully posted so you re-post over and over.....

Just a glitch in the matrix.

#7790 8 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

He gets in a down voting mood when he drinks a lot.

The ignored user flags mean someone is on a bender

1 week later
#7994 8 years ago

Im not sure why people are surprised at no hobbit info. You can't believe what Jack says about release dates. You'll get your machine when it ships. You won't know the date and you will have to wait. This is how JJP operates. Don't like it? Don't buy until you can take immediate delivery of a machine.

#7998 8 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Oh you mean don't pre-order and give him new money so we can get it in front of everyone that pre-ordered? I've debated it, sitting in line waiting is getting really old. Kind of a joke at this point.

That would probably work.

#8024 8 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Point taken. But Jack is a salesman...and he's also an eternal optomist. What do you want him to say? "Yeah...you might not get your machine for 2-3 years." That'll really pick the sales up! Look at DP with their promises of TBL delivery. It's been very quiet over there as well outside of a few recent playfield videos. They'll tell you how delivery is right around the corner as well...and give you a million different reasons why they didn't hit the target date.
None of these companies are Stern. You either get that when you preorder, or shame on you for believing they hype. I don't really think it's lying or broken promises. I think it's simply misguided optimism.

He is a salesman. If you look back through many of the promises they have nothing to do with optimism. Many are just outright lies. That goes along with the fact that he's a salesman and will do anything to keep a sale. At times there may be failures of optimism but they are far outweighed by easily provable lies. It's hard to tell people a truth that they won't be happy hearing. It's always more damaging to lie to them instead. If I had to cite the two reasons there's always much drama around jjp it would be the lies and jacks posts that show contempt for customers and potential customers. If those two things were gone jjp would be as boring, drama wise, as stern

11
#8163 8 years ago
Quoted from Asael:

On facebook I read, and I hope it's allowed to post here, direct from
Jersey Jack finally some good real news!!!!!!!!!!:
"Ah yes, For new orders placed now, early 2016 estimated delivery. We will be building as quickly as possible to fulfill all old and news orders! Lots of Hobbits will be coming off the line this year though"
https://www.facebook.com/JerseyJackPinball?fref=nf

If everyone has learned two things from JJP it's:

1) Don't trust Jack's delivery date promises.
2) New money gets machines over pre-orders.

If it's truly that close you're better off not pre-ordering and just waiting for real machines. If it's not that close you're better off waiting anyway. The only smart move is to wait until you can immediately take delivery.

#8193 8 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

So it sounds to me like JJP ran out of development time, not "License holder rejected idea of Smaug eating pinballs". Another stretching of the truth from JJP to deflect blame.
Shame because that could have been really cool toy.

Well look at the picture of the underside of the hobbit pin. Where in the hell would you put a fully articulated smaug? There's no room as it is.

18
#8211 8 years ago
Quoted from iamabearsfan:

Show me the balance sheet. Show me the cash flow statements. And the only one who as the exact forecast numbers for demand is JJP. So many experts on these boards....
sigh.

You don't need to see balance sheets to know JJPs financial status before the latest "investment." Talk to all of the vendors who are owed money then report back.

#8215 8 years ago
Quoted from iamabearsfan:

I own my own business. So does that make me a bad executive?
I guess I can relate to some of the challenges JJP is facing.
I will be the first to calm this thread down. So sorry if I came across harsh here folks. Running your own business is very difficult. I just am seeing a ton of assumptions. I am not saying Jack is the best at everything. He has many shortfalls like we all do. I just don't want to see him fail and all of these assumptions about his books makes me cringe. And the fact that he has investors does not mean the business model is going to fail. In fact to me it quite the opposite. It means another individual with money had a close look at his books and has decided to invest in JJP. To me that is a very positive move. For some reason, it seems to be looked at that JJP is failing. I just don't get it.
If JJP fails, it is bad for pinball. I agree with the other post that GOT will push JJP even more. Competition is good folks.

There's so much you don't know and your assumptions above are not better than the people you complain about. So, until you see the books, talk to vendors, examine his credit rating, talk to the lawyers defending him in the Elaut suit and most importantly talk to the first investor that was wiped clean from the jjp site you shouldn't complain about people making assumptions unless you enjoy being hypocritical.

#8229 8 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

My sources say the vendors are now paid and large orders have been placed - so the new money is certainly a good thing. I cut JJP a little slack because the pre-order model completely imploded in the last year...kudos to them for finding new investors. I am much more confident that everyone will get their Hobbit now - hopefully sooner rather than later.

If that's correct big parts orders were just placed? That would mean previously promised delivery dates were complete bs?!? Say it ain't so...

4 weeks later
#8796 8 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

That is very well stated. It boggles my mind the amount of "investment" going into the Hobbit to provide an experience like no other. Sure game play, flow etc etc is some peoples idea of fun but when you truly compare the depth and the all around package coming out of JJP I don't even see how the stern LE's can even come as close as they do in price. This is not to say JJP should be charging more.....I really think Stern needs to lower their price

And you're a businessman. Why would a company lower their price when they sells lots of machines at that price point? That would be dumb. Now, if people quit buying then they might have to consider such an action.

#8802 8 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I'm gonna bite my tongue here as well, Its a point, if it flies over your head then put up a butter fly net! I simply do not want JJP to increase price, however when you compare what goes into a JJP pin and a Stern pin the numbers, to me, don't add up. If there are a ton that don't care and keep buying then more power to Stern "business wise". So Chessiv you are right and I should and will go back to Business school. My motto anyway....."Everydays a school day"

I understood exactly what you were selling.

1 month later
#8938 8 years ago

This is weird;

James Thornton is now Program Manager at Kustom Seating Unlimited, Inc - received a notice from Linkedin.

Old job:

Director of Product Development
Jersey Jack Pinball
January 2011 – November 2015 (4 years 11 months)Streamwood Illinois
Coordinate Mechanical/Electrical Engineering and Programming to final product design.

1 month later
#9096 8 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

But what if they find problems with some of these test games?

Odss are these aren't really test machines but will be going to the biggest distribs in hopes of selling more hobbits (more money down to fund things.) It makes zero sense, outside of the lawsuit, that hobbit is taking this long to produce past a fully realized machine. Which we've all seen for months. Any play right now is to get more rev to build more machines. If money weren't an issue a bunch of people would have machines by now.

1 week later
14
#9157 8 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Nothing will boost peoples confidence - just generates more questions. Why should Jack bother? IIRC, didn't Jack kick you from the google owners group forum - I can't help but think there is some bias in your posts.

Of course anyone who posts anything but glowing review of JJP has an "agenda." His post wasn't unreasonable. when JJP announces games and ships them shortly afterwards, or at least not outright lie about dates, there won't be posts like these. Until then JJP deserves criticism.

#9226 8 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I just like to know if they are still testing or is "actual" production started.
Friend of mine is in top 50. He was told mid March he should have his game which sounds promising but he was told early Dec a few months ago.

Guessing or promises won't help on this. You'll know when they're shipping as a bunch of people will report getting them. Until then don't hold your breath.

12
#9253 8 years ago
Quoted from dgarrett:

Um, post #192. I hope I'm wrong....(there's a first time for everything).
I'm not going to defend Jack, just to defend him. Saying he missed an estimated date is lying has 2 flaws - how is missing an estimated date, a lie? and you know Jack's intent was to lie, mislead to keep people from running - how can you know Jack's intent?
Two questions:
1. are you pre-ordered on TH?
2. have you talked to Jen or Jack about any of your concerns?

If you are saying jack hasn't lied to his customers you aren't paying attention.

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