Jack also said something about controlling the ball above and below the playfield. He mentioned he was being deliberately vague on this.
Perhaps this is the rumored underground playfield that you can only see/play on the LCD? 
(Topic ID: 77386)
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Quoted from DarkWizard:Here is an update for you...
They just gained 6 more months.
In shocking news, Warner Bros. today announced that the release of The Hobbit: There And Back Again will be pushed back so the final film of Bilbo Baggins’ adventure can premiere at Comic-Con in July 2015. The new worldwide release date is July 29, 2015.
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2014/04/01/87992-there-and-back-again-moves-to-july-2015-world-premiere-at-comic-con/
April Fool's.....
Quoted from jarjarisgod:April Fools. Although I bet JJP wishes it was true.
LOL!
Ironically, the delays in Fast & Furious and Superman vs. Batman have sent Stern scrambling......
Quoted from DarkWizard:Mustang = Fast and Furious retheme
PS - I just made that up
If it was Borg's summer pin.......I'd say yes.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:I like the pic of Joe playing .. but that's about it as far as new info, right? (which needs forensics experts to find new info in it, lol). The teaser video isn't showing anything new, is it? Or is the one clip of 'Extra Ball' new? I can't remember. Regardless, while I get they don't want to reveal much of the game right now, I'm still very surprised they can't/won't tell us new information about the game. Like, will there be a 'regular' edition? When will it be announced? What are the features of the LE? Will there be a topper .... will there be a wooden apron ... different artwork ... what? I hope we learn more before December.
Teaser is completely new from the one they posted in January. New UI, animations. Same music.
Quoted from StevenP:yeah, and Stern is not innovating at all; in fact they are putting less and less on the pf, and maintaining the practice of releasing games with basic/incomplete code, if ST is any indication. They are just taking advantage of the noob 'collectors' who pay ridiculous premiums for cheap accessorizing. And they are on a production schedule to crank out the next licensed game on time, not trying to move pinball forward. All well and good, but I'll still give an innovative new pinball platform/company/system some slack for their first effort. And it looks like the Hobbit is even revamping a lot of stuff learned from the WOZ design/production.
Lots of innovation on Star Trek, and it's code was much more complete at launch than some recent Stern's.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Hey, you'll get no argument from me when referencing STLE like this, lol. I saw it as a huge disappointment but some folks seem to love it.
Some? Most.....
Quoted from Darkslide632:When I look at that picture, after filtering it a bit, I could see Smaugs head in the upper left corner, with his body in the upper right covering the pops, and tail running down the right side of the machine.
Seems like a lot of space taken up, but who the hell knows...smaug.jpg 55 KB
Jack said at TPF that the Smaug mech would be on top of a mountain. I think Smaug and the mountain are all contained in the upper left corner.
Quoted from ek77:Lets not forget Stern was a startup when others were crapping out and dying off.If Stern did not keep things going JJP would never gotten off the ground.
Not a startup, just a continuation from Sega. Data East/Sega/Stern...same company, different owners, all ran by Gary Stern.
Quoted from metallik:The honeymoon is fading.. I'm agreeing more and more with the "seems like work" post. Rule changes are needed to keep ST(LE) interesting. Right now you have missions (one at a time), Klingon MB and the Vengeance modes (only one of which is worth playing). Starting to feel linear and repetitive, especially with the same quotes in the same spots for the same shots over and over. Bring on Urban and an expansion of simultaneous features we can have running!
Yes, but we know this update is coming. Stern has not been keeping us in the dark on this one. Ritchie has been vocal on here as well as in person that the next update is more than just Urban's call outs.
It's not like the game has been abandoned, and the honeymoon is fading.....
Quoted from metallik:Oh I know they haven't abandoned it, but at the moment we're playing it less and less... it needs a second honeymoon
I'm still in complete infatuation! By the time I buy it, the next release will be out!
Quoted from ozno:I think the giant Smaug is the real deal. It makes so much sense.
But his body would be covering up too much....like the pops.
Plus Jack said the toy is Smaug on a mountain.
Quoted from StevenP:We're gonna have to disagree on this. Innovation on ST? 3 flippers--old news. 3 ramps--*yawn* seen it before. a single drop target with a magnet and kicker. That's the only interactive thing on the entire pf to shoot at. The Vengeance? LOL. Remove Sparky, add spaceship, and you have that same effect we saw on AFM about 18 years ago. Display? The cheezy cartoony DMD graphics are no better than what we saw on the first DMD games over 20 years ago. And if you claim that pretty colored blinking lights are "innnovative," well, refer back to my comment regarding Stern taking advantage of noobs. As for code, those "18" modes (LOL) are just 6 modes done over and over, and the 6 modes are pretty interchangeable, not distinctive at all. A real woodchopping fest, those modes are.
AFM UFO doesn't crash or send the ball flying back at high speed. It's a joke compared to battling the Vengeance. The 60+ tri-color LED's are amazing and well coded so far. The overall light show is vastly superior to the dimness that is WOZ Not for noobs only. The laser starfield is also a first, and really enhances the light show. Each of the 18 modes has their own animated story, and the playfield actions to progress that story can and will be improved with code.
I love JJP, and am really looking forward to the Hobbit. I merely think the light show in Star Trek LE/Premium is superior to WOZ. Certainly wasn't going down the JJP/Stern battle road. It's great for Pinball to have both companies. I hope to have a Hobbit next to my Star Trek.
These are good times to be a pinhead.
Quoted from Excalabur:Data East wasn't as 'pure' a startup as all that, though. As I understand it, Old Stern bought Chicago Coin's assets at bankruptcy, and when Old Stern folded after the video crash in the 80s Gary Stern founded Pinstar to keep his hand in. Dates appear to be that DE Pinball was founded in '86 and released their first game, Laser War, in May '87.
I don't know how many physical and human assets came to DE from earlier pinball companies: conflicting reports exist, but most indicate that DE bought Old Stern's factory and assets at bankruptcy, which certainly gives them a leg up, along with Joe Kamikow and Gary Stern's preexisting knowledge base.
That's what I've heard too, but others on here have angrily denied that there is any connection between old Stern and Data East.
Would make sense to me that Data East would have got SOMETHING from bankruptcy of old Stern.
This whole timeline is ripe for a book or documentary.
Quoted from JSmith:but where are all the ET carts?
LOL j/k
There is a documentary being filmed about that. Apparently they have permission to dig up the landfill and look for evidence. Can't wait to see that!!!
Quoted from DarkWizard:What's kind of sad is... I kind of enjoyed that game at the time...
Collect the reeses pieces... made me think of candy... which made me happy
It was hardly the worst game for the 2600......I just think expectations were too high....and the pits too sensitive....apparently homebrew hackers have adjusted the pit's sensitivity by one pixel, and the game is much less frustrating.
Quoted from Aurich:They've already been immortalized on the screen of a movie, I hardly think most people care about their voice coming out of some commercial arcade machine. I know it seems super cool to us, but it's just a game you stick quarters in that you hardly even see any more to most people. It's a gig, you show up for it, you get paid the going rate for a star of your caliber, that's just normal shit. It's not greed, it's what actors get paid now.
Remember, game voice work back in the STTNG days was a rare and weird thing. How many games, of any kind, had actors like that? Now a days it's super common, the games that utilize people have budgets the size of movies, and the rates have gone up. No one here is saying "hey, you bought your BBB for $4500, that's what you should sell it to me for", no reason to not give other people the same due.
Karl Urban thinks it's cool, and thank goodness for him! There's no way Stern would have paid $100,000 for voice work. Star Trek owners are lucky that Urban is invested in Bones and Pinball, and most likely worked for a free LE.
Quoted from karl:Since 100 000 is for Morgan Freeman, I bet there is a lot of other actors from the film willing to do it for a lot less.
Come to think of it, it's a bit strange that even he would want that much. He's not that big a star. Could it be the movie company is behind this enormous price and it has nothing to do with the actors? It's a shame for sure. Pro actors can really add a lot to a game.
Why not contact John Rhys-Davies? He has already done two great pinball machines and Gimli is the son of one of the dwarfs in the movies. Stretching it a bit here, but personally I would be happy to have his voice in 3 of my games
I think you mean Martin Freeman. Morgan costs even more....God is expensive!
Quoted from Noodlebox:John Holmes woulda been more interesting...
Ram it in the scoop for Jackpot!
Quoted from PappyBoyington:Really? I was at the TPF and the lines were no longer than all the other pins around. In fact there were a few times I walked by and there was either only one person or nobody playing the game. That's a big difference from last year at the TPF where there were a dozen or more always waiting to play the game. All I can guess is that most of the people who were waiting in line to play last year must finally have their game or played their friends game.
I was at TPF Friday and Saturday. WOZ had the deepest lines I saw. I didn't get a chance to play it until Saturday evening, when I finally bit the bullet and waited in line.
Quoted from PappyBoyington:LOL, well I was there the whole weekend. Never saw "the deepest lines" as you say. There were people playing them but not any more than the other games. Especially all the new games at the Marco booth, and nowhere near the lines we saw last year.
Plenty more people playing WOZ than other games.
Check out JJP Facebook post from TPF. My brother and I are standing in line waiting to play it. Took forever to get through.
I'm not tooting WOZ's horn. I liked Star Trek LE a lot more. Just stating the facts.
Quoted from pinball_keefer:Considering he didn't want anything to do with LOTR, I don't think we even bothered to ask him. Hugo Weaving also flat-out denied us on LOTR.
No.
In all likelihood, Mr. Freeman probably doesn't even know about the offer; it was probably just his agent talking without even approaching him.
Perhaps you were talking to Ian and Hugo's agents as well? Perhaps they didn't know anymore than Martin? Why would Martin be in the dark and not Ian/Hugo?
Quoted from PappyBoyington:Sorry but that's not the way I saw it. In fact I was thinking about taking a picture because I couldn't believe there were no lines to the game. Here are some facts for you. Watch this video from Pinball News at the 9:10 mark.
» YouTube video
There is one person playing the game and with his girlfriend watching. You see two people behind the player with their arms on each other but they may or may not be waiting to play. Not really much of a Deep line. In fact there are more people watching and waiting to play the TRON which is right next to the WOZ.
Like I said twice already and I don't know why we are debating this but the point is the lines were nowhere near what they were last year.
That's nice that you didn't see it my way. I couldn't give a rat's ass what you believe. And I'm sure there was a time during THE ENTIRE WEEKEND when you could find the game without a line, but it wasn't the norm, and others have backed me up in this thread. Now buzz off, fly.
Quoted from PappyBoyington:It's funny that this video from Martin just happens to be the ONE time there was no line. But hey I'm sure there were times (sat night) there were there were a few people behind waiting to play. Again, not the point.
But wait here is more:
» YouTube video
This video shows MAYBE two people waiting to play the first WOZ and nobody waiting to play the other. The evidence is stacking up. LOL.Right back at ya. I love how you missed the point all along. Keep on trucking dude. See you next year
Haven't missed any point, jack-rump. I was there for two days and every time I went to play a WOZ, there was a lengthy line. Other people on this thread that were there have backed up that assessment. There is a picture on JJP's Facebook page of me waiting in a long line to play the game.
Now, what part of this don't you understand? Perhaps your brain simply can't comprehend that the universe doesn't revolve around your assessment of it.
Quoted from jarjarisgod:Does anybody other than Jack really give a shit if there was a line to play WOZ? Especially in a Hobbit thread?
I sure as hell don't.
Just correcting the facts. I'd rather be discussing the Hobbit, but some people have an agenda. I'm done with the line business.
Quoted from PappyBoyington:That's nice. I know I've won this debate when you resort to name calling.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing.
And just like that.....you've been ignored!
Go ahead and keep running your mouth.....I won't see it.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I don't know why the hell you guys want updates anyway? Personally, I don't want to know every star post added to the game. The way he handled WOZ was crappy. There was no element of surprise, every aspect of it, I saw as it was being done, so when I actually saw the game in person, it was very uneventful. the whole game had a MEH, element to it. If I would have knew nothing and saw nothing about it, until it was revealed at a show, it might have blew my balls off.
You guys around here can't wait for anything. Impulse buyers. How crappy would it be for you as a kid on xmas, if you knew and saw everything you were getting? IT would have sucked. I know because one year I did know and there wasn't any surprise there. The surprise is part of the experience. Learn how to wait, and the less you know, the more impact the game will have during a reveal.
The difference is, they will say, is that JJP is asking for money upfront, and Stern's pins are ready to buy when announced.
I'm very confident the WOW factor will be there. Jack's not blowing his wad all at once, and some of the advanced features were probably still being massaged up until recently It's the parts we haven't seen yet that will be revolutionary. Remember, the 17 unused drivers on WOZ's board are all used this time. There more to this than we've seen with the blueprint.
Quoted from retired_user_101:man, i truly dig the idea of a cam below playfield showing on led backbox of lower playfield action.
that's seriously a cool visual concept to test
That's been a rumored feature for quite some time. Lots of people on here have tried to poo-poo that rumor, but it still seems to be in play. I think it's pretty cool, myself. Time will tell.
Quoted from dgpinball:Cool idea, yes very, but the problem is now if it isn't in the game it will be disappointing!
Regardless, game looks very good, I think it will be a worthy successor to WOZ, different, but maintaining it's high standards!
Who knows? Maybe JJP has something else in mind that no one has guessed yet. Maybe the Smaug toy is even more interactive than anyone guessed.
So far, so good in my opinion. I like seeing this thing progress. I don't consider pinball creation like watching a movie. There are no "spoilers" to me. The project is the story to me.
Quoted from DCFAN:Couldn't quite a few of the extra drivers in Hobbit be for flashers which WOZ does not have?
They way Jack was emphasizing the use of these extra drivers leads me to believe they are something more significant than flashers.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Jargus:I don't think Jack ever said dual buttons. He just said there was more for the player to control than two flippers on each side. People just assumed that meant extra buttons.
Then the diverters would move everytime you flip....
Quoted from mnpinball:Yes it will use buttons like P2K pins had, action/flipper buttons
image.jpg 2 KB
That would be sweet!
Quoted from CaptainNeo:Unlike Obama, G.B. has been seen in pictures with books upside down in his hands. Obama is smarter, just not very good with money.
You've fallen for some poor Photoshop, my comrade.
Quoted from StevenP:Why? There is a huge difference between the WOZ and Hobbit layouts, far more than in, say, Steve Ritchie rehashing his same designs over and over these days.
Yes, because 24, AC/DC and Star Trek are practically clones of each other.
Quoted from sven:I think having a map with leds that show you your progress, would be great! I like maps and this would be a great way to show the progress of modes!
I do hope the game doesn't get to lineair because they want to follow the story in order (I don't think they will).
If you're not going linear, then displaying a map is pointless.
Quoted from HighNoon:Actually, quite the opposite. A map is MORE important if the game is not linear.
--Luke
Disagree completely.
To what purpose? To blink in one spot, and then randomly blink somewhere else?
Pointless.....
1 week later
Quoted from HighNoon:This. ^^
If it's linear, you don't need a map to show you where you're at. You'd know where you were at by whatever mode was running.
--Luke
Not if you like interactive and visual feedback.
2 weeks later
The circular orbit around Smaug is what I found so intriguing.
I hope Smaug's "extreme interaction" with the ball hasn't been pulled.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:We know that Smaug is going to be the main toy and with the price of this game I'm hoping it's at least as interactive as the castle in MM. If the toy just bends down like the T-Rex in JP and "eats" the ball I think that will be a bummer.
Funny. I consider the T-REX eating the ball more interactive than the castle in MM.
3 months later
3 weeks later
1 month later
There can be no doubt that Smaug now eats and spits pinballs.
Oh, and a lower playfield viewed only by the LCD in Bag-End.
Quoted from John_I:So why on earth would they not say that during the reveal? If this is true it would be an epic mistake considering how many people I know personally who cancelled their orders based on the reaction from Expo. I hope they do come up with something cool in place of the book. Maybe something that initially got cut for cost reasons might be returning? An LCD?
The whole reveal was off......very strange.
Quoted from mnpinball:People are really clueless and naive to what was presented at expo, the game was a prototype.
Lockbar button missing, 5" LCD book missing, Smaug body missing with diverter . VUK wireforms missing. New playfield art.
Game will be fantastic. Can't wait Probably some other surprises as well. Something between the top speakers
You're right! I mean, JJP did such a WONDERFUL job of communicating at Expo that this was a prototype!
Now that the book has moved to the back, shouldn't that third pop bumper be a barrel as well now? Would give the bumpers a more uniform appearance.
Quoted from epthegeek:Or just move the one covered up by the book to the front pop instead? I think the original idea was to have the book lower, in front of the pops, so they only barreled the back two thinkging those would be the visible ones. But with the LCD further back, seems like you could just move the furthest barrel forward.
True. I still like the idea of all three being barrels from an aesthetics point of view.
If JJP doesn't do all three, I'm sure that would be a popular mod.
Quoted from Dalbok:I wonder if they are still planning on having the interactive apron. Originally it was going to be a map to track progress, correct? I wonder if that's been changed.
That's what I was hoping for too.
Quoted from Hogbog:When we had it on there, it blocked the back two pretty heavily from a player's perspective. If you guys want to add it on, I'm sure BackAlley will be selling them once the game comes out, but it blocks too much of the action to go out that way in production.
Gotcha.
Wireforms trump the clunky plastics they had pasted over them in the Expo prototype.
Glad they are gone.
Quoted from aobrien5:I'm pretty sure they were metal with decals on them, not plastic.
They could have been made of Platinum, and they'd still be ugly.
Quoted from pinball_keefer:They were sticker-covered metal tubes, not plastic FYI. You can debate about the look but they weren't that cheap.
I didn't say they were cheap. I said they looked bad.
Quoted from alichino:I've been beating this drum for a looooong time. Flow games can be fun, but all Steve Ritchie games (ST:TNG excluded) feel the same to me. Software sets them apart somewhat, but there's only so much you can do with the same layout.
To me, High Speed feels nothing like T2, which feels nothing like Star Trek.
Very different games, all with good flow.
Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Hobbit looks like it has a lot more flow than WOZ. It's a step in the right direction.
Post edited by Captain_Kirk: g
Quoted from Hazoff:Any designer can use feedback, lets not forget Monopoly and Rollercoaster Tycoon etc. Anyway theme is most important and The Hobbit beats WOZ hands down. Its looking so great with that new PF and added goodies. Really looking forward to playing one. I hope Pat doesn't blow it with a cheesy or kiddie theme.
Except JJP's model so far is not the norm. Pinball has been made for decades without feedback. Once JJP starts unveiling Pins ready to sell, there will be no more "Feedback".
Quoted from Pinchroma:That isnt true. While features may be complete, code and gameplay adjustments are something we have the ability to modify readily based on feedback and i believe we have shown that.
I was speaking of features, not code.
As Stern shows....the code comes later........
Quoted from Pinchroma:Yeah... I'll let you stew a bit on that comparison again.
Nothing to stew on.
Like I said...the days of JJP changing the mechanics of the game due to feedback are over the day the start selling them upon announcement.
Not a controversial statement.
I've have fixed feelings about this game. I wasn't a fan of WOZ, but I appreciated the build quality, LCD, etc..
I had high hopes for the Hobbit. Loved the book and movies. Very disappointed with what JJP demonstrated at Expo last month.
I've been impressed with how many changes they made so quickly.
However, it still seems to lacking the WOW factor.
Another Pinsider described it best earlier and I can't think of a better way to describe it. It's like a modern day EM with drops as the main thing to shoot for.
That's it I guess. It's a 21st century EM.
Quoted from DarkWizard:Couldn't anyone with Peter Jacksons ear let him know that Smaug was expected to interact with the ball or did that part even make it to him? I realize its already a done deal... oh well. I guess pinball is too much of a cottage industry for him to get very involved in.
Agreed. I haven't seen Jurassic Park in a few years, but I'm pretty sure the T-REX didn't eat a pinball.
Seems like Spielberg is a lot more lenient....or at least imaginative.
Quoted from fosaisu:You must not have seen the Director's Cut.
You're thinking of The Lost World!
Edit: Doesn't seem to start at 1 minute 35 seconds like it's supposed to.
Quoted from Aurich:Yeah, good question. Maybe no one asked Jackson last time. Or maybe he's got grumpier in his old age. Definitely funny that Balrog was allowed to be bashable but You Must Not Touch The Dragon™.
Or maybe he doesn't care about dots!
Quoted from Pimp77:LOL...of all the interactive "toys" to compare with, really, the ST ship?? It's a drop target and magnet UNDER a the ship. The ship does nothing with the ball. It's a cool "toy", but it's not interactive.
Please....the Vengeance is the most interactive toy since the castle in Medieval Madness.
It functions as all of the following.
1. Bash toy that reacts when hit. (Yes, I know the ball doesn't touch it, but the ship is part of the whole mechanism, and the illusion is complete. Quite ingenious, since it saves the toy from damage.)
2. Ball Lock (virtual and magnet)
3. Skill shot target
4. Defeated mode (Premium and LE)
and something the castle doesn't do.....
5. Fires ball back at you.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:it's still just a drop target. Does about the same as the joker does on Batman Dark Knight. Makes a toy move. least the ship in POTC gets hit, moves, sinks and opens up a new passage. I like the Stern ST, don't get me wrong. but the "toy" is not all that great or inventive. Castle on MM is much better. I think I like the black bug target better on SST.
I don't see it as anything like the Joker. Sorry, but it's much more interactive. I've already listed what it does.
Quoted from PBFan:Ah no. IM has 2 interactive Magnet Toys - Whiplash and Iron monger (which rises out of the playfield). The illusions are complete here also but yet IM is always deadpanned as a low BOM cost-cutting machine. None of these mechanisms (ST or IM) could truly meet the definition of an interactive Toy any more than Smaug in it's current iteration could. Illusion is not interaction. Even true bash-toys (like the Well walker or Balrog) can only be considered interactive in the simplest definition - like drop-targets or scoops that fire the ball.
True interactive toys need to have some complexity and mechanical interaction with the ball. Not saying that you always need interactive toys. Providing great illusion that allows a game to pull us in is fantastic and I do agree that ST does that but it doesn't really constitute a solid interactive toy by it's own merits.
I think that after so many decades of pinball, many of us are just looking to be blown away by something more revolutionary. If we consider how far computers and video games have come along; pinball by comparison has stagnated (until recently - as we are finally seeing some new ideas, although not mind-blowing).
Great Hobby though.
Sorry for the slight change in topic. Looking forward to seeing the Hobbit and what it has to offer.
Ah yes. IM's toys are junk compared to the Vengeance. Did you not ready my list?
Quoted from Hazoff:IM is old news now with the release of TWD sorry but its true. With Met Pre, STLE, TWDLE borg has surpassed that game ten fold. JMO
Borg didn't do STLE!
Quoted from taylor34:The most interactive toy since MM is the crane on Batman. Regardless of whether it really fits the theme or not, it's way more interactive than anything else.
Can you pass your weed? The crane doesn't do half the thing the castle or Vengeance does.
Quoted from ZenTron:I'm going to argue with you indefinitely on here till you say ST is the best and Im blue in the face.
People who don't like STLE hate pinball.
The 4 pops up mechs should have been the tip of Smaug's tail. That way, he could have interacted with the ball and messed with you as you played.
Quoted from DarkWizard:I could see that, or at least the 2 closer to the ramps. Then they could just use the nicer looking spider and warg heads.
Perfect!
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:Too busy with slapstick barrel riding and non-canon romancing to have time for actual cinematics I suppose...
The barrel scene was one of the best parts.
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:Monger rising up out of nowhere is junk? Balrog in LOTR is better than anything on any late model Stern, with the possible exception of Sparky. AND lotr has the magnetic ring, which is probably the coolest magnet implementation ever.
I have no problem with the whole Vengence experience, but let's keep it real, shall we?
Keeping it VERY real. Those toys are not as interactive at the Vengeance. READ MY LIST.
End Of Line.
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:I liked the part where they got away by Jar Jar Binks-esque barrel bouncing and head-in-first feet flailing luck. Epic storytelling there.
The idea of escaping in barrels from the elves was indeed in the book. The 20 minute 'Wild River Riot', orc chase, rollercoaster pinball barrel, Legolas prancing, morgul arrow wound incidents in the movie... were not.
No... pretty sure it's the movie. I quite like the barrel escape from the novel - built on stealth and subtlety, shaping the strengths and the growth of the 'burgler' Bilbo Baggins. The movie overshadowed that with an unnecessary CGI rich action sequence.
Blah....Blah.....Blah.....
That's about the only worthy response to your post.
Quoted from Apollyon:Yeah if you are 6 years old and are oblivious.
The only one here who is oblivious is a tub like yourself...budding into conversation your weren't invited into.
Quoted from Apollyon:Oh. Shoot. I didn't know I had to be invited to speak on an Internet forum. I am such a "tub" (whatever that means). I will be so much more careful from now on.
On a wholly unrelated note, I am incredulous how immature and obtuse some people can be.
Move along....
4 weeks later
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I just saw they had some EMs and old school DMD's. I love diversity. Especially in locations.
Hobbit will fit right in there. 21st century EM. Drops, drops, and more drops.
Quoted from beelzeboob:And the problem with that would be...?
I happen to like EMs.
Nothing at all......if you like EMs.
I do too, in small doses.
Quoted from DougPiranha:Is it my imagination or are most of your posts negative bashing of JJP?
Do you have one on order or did you drop out?
Do you wish it was different because you want to get one?
IMO negativity is toxic to the brain and can lead health problems.
Some reading materials: http://themindunleashed.org/2014/10/8-emotional-patterns-can-disturb-inner-peace.html
You should learn to spot whimsical observations when you see them.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Must admit compare Hobbit to Wrestlemania - they look like they are made in different decades!
I am not buying either but I know where I would put my money if I was. DMD is really antiquated now.
Wrestlemania LE has a LCD on the playfield, similar to the Hobbit. Also contains Stern's new system, which can drive LCD displays. DMD should be gone within a couple more games from Stern. Most likely Ritchie's next game around the end of the year (He's out of rotation again for something big).
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Based on the rumored specs of Sterns new system I doubt it will be able to drive a mini LCD that interacts with game modes and pump out 1080p video to a much larger display at the same time. Its to be determined if the mini LCD in Wrestlemania actually interacts with game modes (like on WOZ and TH) or just cycles through videos. Big difference. I hope they prove me wrong. They are moving in the right direction.
It will. Stern has said as much. In any event, Stern certainly didn't create a new system (which has a production life of nearly a decade) that wouldn't drive an LCD.
This is being phased in slowly.....
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:Like the useless cannon in every Stern game?
Every Stern game? You mean AC/DC?
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:The Walking Dead LE
Walking Dead isn't a cannon.
In either event, that would only be two.
Quoted from Pinchroma:T2 isn't even a stern game so based on the previous comment it's irrelevant.
Didn't say it was. Was pointing out that T2 had one, as the person I was replying to may have had them confused.
Now, troll elsewhere.
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:Sorry. It's a "crossbow" but sure looks like a cannon to me. Still fires pinballs. My best friend has a TWDLE and it serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. At least JJP is pushing the limits on new technology, not recycling something from 1991 that was debuted (to the best of my knowledge) on T2. Yawn.
Yes, JJP would never recycle old pinball technology like say....drop targets...and then make a Pin full of them.
Quoted from dannunz:The drop target banks in hobbit are new technology.
They're still drop targets.
Quoted from Pinchroma:I was referring to the person you replied to. Now learn to read a threaded discussion.
The person I was replying to was speaking of T3.
Learn to read.
Quoted from Pinchroma:This was the dumbest post so far of 2015. Yeah. Why recycle old pinball tech like flippers and balls and slingshots too. Because that's pinball. Wow. Just wow.
Thank you! You just made my point for me! The post I was replying to accused Stern of recycling olds parts, like a cannon. My post was filled with irony and you just bolstered my case.
Thank you again for your cooperation.
Quoted from ek77:back glass
That's not a cannon.
And if you want to get that broad, they're ALL solenoids.
Just getting caught up. Nice to see Pinchroma getting taking to the shed on some of his comments.
Wonder if he still claims that Stern's RGB can only produce 3 colors?
Quoted from Pinchroma:They do recycle old parts. The twd crossbow is identical to the mech from Austin Powers. How is that debatable? That said comparing it to components that make up a pinball machine is inane.
And you added slingshots and flippers.
You're not helping your case.
2 weeks later
Quoted from John_in_NC:Agree, JJp is having a hard time integrating the book. Sacrificed perhaps one of the best touches in the barrel pops to wedge in the book. Look at relocating it to the Apron!! Restore the barrels characters, add a 3rd!!
+1
Quoted from HENSBROOKER:The attention on the barrels is completely overruled by the floating book, which does not seem to match there artwork-wise. The lcd could have made the promised 'interactive apron'!
I wondered also why the not so elegant VUK wireform isn't covered by a pillar decoration piece...
They were covered in earlier builds....and they looked terrible.
3 weeks later
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:Once production begins, JJP will ship approximately 50 games per week.
Can I have what you're smoking?
3 weeks later
Quoted from PinballRulez:Thanks Captain. Your clarity is appreciated.
Just in time for pre-orders for Lawlor's game.
Quoted from ek77:I think you are a hard judge looks like a lot of games the last several years. 2/3 ramps a toy or two, two or three bank or drop targets posable a captive ball or kick out last right/left loop
For 8K, pre-orders, and a long wait, you bet your ass I'm a hard judge!
Not a JJP basher......really wanted this to be great.
Quoted from ozno:Hobbit has four pop up targets, Smaug who talks and moves, a very cool ramp configure, captive ball, two VUKs ,cool drops and will have the best video, music and Sfx in any (non band ) pinball. What's not to like?
No Smaug interaction with ball, 4 pop-ups impede flow, unfinished/poorly designed Bag End, price and waiting time to delivery.
Quoted from Pimp77:Also, the constant whiners bashing a game that isn't released yet.
LOL!
That's one of the problems I listed!
Quoted from beelzeboob:Well...that rules out MM for you, then. What a piece of crap that is, eh?
You know you want a Hobbit...you keep stalking all the threads.
MM is overrated, for sure, but it only has two pop ups close thhe castle that do no impede flow.
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:Have you played Hobbit yet? I spent over two hours straight playing this pin and you cannot be more flat out, stone cold wrong on your assessment. I've trespassed many of your comments on this thread, and I get the impression you just like to pule and whine for the sake of it. The pop-ups add to the frenzied pace of the action, the Bag End shot is a challenging one, and the dragon interacts with the player via speech - true to the spirit of the Tolkien novel (and film adaptations). And every owner I talked with in person or on Pinside are quite content with waiting a little longer for a better game with (almost) complete code.
You, my friend, are flat out wrong in my purposes. I really wanted this game, but it has failed to grab my attention. I'd love to actually play it, but I'm not giving JJP 8K for the chance, or waiting another year to find it on location somewhere. I can tell from watching it that it didn't live up to potential.
What you call whining, I call reality. What you call praise, I call rose colored glasses.
Quoted from Pimp77:Eh, if you're not feeling it that's fine. Move along. I guess I could tell by watching ST that it is a good layout (though a stale fan) and it's REALLY boring. Then I played it and I found I was right! So maybe that will come true for you and Hobbit?
Yup, so boring it won the Playmeter's Operators Choice Award. No one must be playing it.
Oh snap!
IMG_0039.PNGQuoted from CaptainNavidad:One - I am not your friend.
And two, I played the game for an entire afternoon practically non-stop. Put in a minimum of 25 plays. Rose colored glasses? I think not. This pin rocks!
Learn sarcasm.
Rose colored glasses? After the roll-out of WOZ, yes I think that term is applicable.
Quoted from Skyemont:It's one thing to say u don't like the hobbit and move on. But to continue to bash it on this thread is stupid. Just move on and bash a Stern.
Why would I bash a Stern?
They have "The King" and they deliver.
Quoted from DarkWizard:Devils Advocate here. It may have been lost in the clutter , but another poster technically asked 'Whats not to like?' and was originally just answering that question.
I was...but I made the cardinal sin of criticizing JPP.
That's blasphemy in this here thread.
That being said, I've spoken my mind for now.
Quoted from Pimp77:Games people don't want in their homes usually kill on location (like Mustang and ST). Games people buy for their homes don't do well on location because they own it.
So you're saying nobody wants WOZ in their homes?
Quoted from Pimp77:Initially nobody had them in their homes so they had to play them in the wild. Try again.
Nothing to try again. You made a statement that games that do well on route aren't popular in the home. WOZ supposedly does miracle business on route, so my comeback to you was that it must not be popular in the home, applying your logic.
You had no comeback, so you posted something that made no sense.
Try again.
Quoted from Pimp77:No sense? Well, if you can't decipher that mind-boggler then there's no helping you, but let me try. WOZ won the award when JJP had issues and couldn't deliver their machines fast enough (thus people didn't have them at home) and HAD to play it in the wild. People are busy playing WOZ at home now and less so in the wild. Those are facts. This is opinion: You don't care for Hobbit (somehow, even though it isn't out yet) and I think ST blows (because the code is boring).
So what the hell does that have to do with Star Trek? It's popular on location and in the home.
What was your point even about? Can you come back with an above 6th grade answer?
Quoted from Pimp77:and I think ST blows (because the code is boring).
Apparently you haven't played it with the recent 1.6 update.
Quoted from Pimp77:I have not and will definitely try it out. The layout is nice, smooth, and shoots great. If the code is up to snuff it will be a winner! That's all I'm saying about Hobbit. Give it a chance man. You can't tell now.
I wasn't judging the code, just the playfield, flow, and design. LCD looks great. Code will be deep, no brainier.
It wasn't worth spending 8K on, waiting for years to receive it, for a layout I didn't care for. Mostly I'm jaded because I really wanted this game at one time. I'm not a JJP hater. Far from it. I hope they gets a game completely right before their mistakes catch up to them. We'll see.
Quoted from DougPiranha:Captain Kirk-
I understand your position on WOZ, TH, and ST after the first 100 posts. I come to this thread to get updates and its groundhog day.
Its like you cut and paste the same thing over and over.
I don't want to own a few games that are being released but I don't stalk their threads.
What' up?
You know what? I've realized I don't care. I guess I'm too happy playing the great Star Trek Premium. You have yourself a great day!
Quoted from Goronic:That is all well and good, but why are you so pissed off about the hobbit?
Because I wanted it to be great.
4 weeks later
Quoted from StevenP:As far back as I can remember, TH was announced as beginning production when the 3rd movie was released, which it was in December 2014 (moved back from July). Barely 4 months ago. A year late? That is hardly accurate. Check your facts before you call other people on calling you childish.
What Jack meant was December of 2015.
It was just a typo on his part.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Could we get this thread back on topic please? I don't know WHY anybody would post travelogues about places they've been in a Hobbit update thread. Unheard of.
Hey, they have to talk about something while they wait again and again and again for this game to be made.....
Well, it's certainly looking better than it ever has!
I keep waiting for Smug to say, "My name is......Kahn!"
Quoted from Aurich:I was making a crack about that video having a "coming 2014" deal, but then I actually loaded it and decided my comment was dumb.
But ooohhhh so right!
Quoted from Pimp77:I suggest just enjoying summer...go outside, enjoy family and friends, imbibe. The game will arrive in time. Pinball's more of a winter thing anyways.
I play mine year round.
Quoted from Pinball_Freak:I had date of manufacture starting on 1st June confirmed as well as additional shifts put on to have all built by end 2015 to support third game...which will include some revolutionary changes to pinball.
I've got some swamp land in Florida I'd like to sell you.....
Quoted from Goronic:Worked out well for Disney...
(The Hobbit may work out well for JJP)
He's not Disney.
Quoted from lowepg:It's easier to just setup some macros
CTRL-A
"No one wants these games to ship more than Jack does!!!!
CTRL-B
"Would you rather have the game SOONER or have it be BETTER?!?!"
CTRL-C
"The game has improved sooooo much BECAUSE it's so late! JJP did us a favor by waiting!"
CTRL-D
"Stern Sucks"
Funniest post I've read on here in a while!
Quoted from Ballypinball:No you won't!
You will never see a pre order on pats game.
You will see Hobbit production line pics soon
200.gifQuoted from iamabearsfan:I am struggling with this whole thing.
I had a tech group out at my business last night. 20 people that have never been there. We fired up my WoZ and they were stunned at the machine. I happened to get lucky and start stacking both upper playfields in a multi-ball scenario at one time. They were stunned at the workmanship and the sophistication of that machine.
TH will be at the same level. Last October he rolled out a version of TH. Everyone barked and gave feedback. He adjusted and made some pretty significant changes. People liked the way things went. To think it was only going to extend the delivery timeline by a quarter or two was naive from both us and Jack. Thank goodness he listened and made a significant round of changes.
Jack is an optimist. Most entrepreneurs are. I am guilty of it as well. Back when I was a CIO, I would throw out timelines that were not going to be made. Thank goodness I had an IT Director that would call me on it and we would go public with the more realistic timeframes.
In the end, you guys will get a great machine. If you want out, ask for a refund. My guess is you will regret it though. I think there are a group of people that wish they would have stuck with WoZ. I still think that for the money (yes, as expensive as it is), WoZ is the best pin ever made. Period. And yes, I like the theme too. Very family friendly and was a perfect fit for my family and business.
Does Jack need to work on setting expectations better. YES! But frankly, he arguably has made the best product in the industry (version 1.0.) He has support that is second to none. Oh, and he has one of the best designers working on his third machine.
I would stick with it guys......there really isn't a close second out there. JJP's machines are in a league of their own (at this time). I mean Kiss has been announced with yet another DMD? Really?
Dave
The changes to the Hobbit have nothing to do with the delay. This would have happened if everybody loved what Jack showed in October.
KISS does still have a DMD, but you know what? It's rolling off the line next week and people will have them in June. And you can get it for 3K less.
Don't Stern bash to cover up JJP's sins.
Quoted from Pimp77:I can get a KissLE for $4500 delivered? Sign me up. Oh, you can't? Well, I guess you lied.
Didn't say LE, dippy.
Quoted from Pimp77:Why buy a Kiss Pro when you can get an Avengers or TF "the pin" for $3000 less (and right now)? C'mon, let's at least attempt to talk apples to apples. Not that a Kiss LE is on equal ground with a JJP game, but at least it's in the ballpark more than a Stern Pro. FWIW, Kiss does look awesome...if only theme didn't blow.
Just pointing out that Stern actually ships games....at different price points......something JJP seems to have trouble with
Learn.
Quoted from Ballypinball:You Are Talking Out Of your Arse.
Gary Stern Doesn't even own Stern anymore, but is the Main Guy.
Investors invest in What they think will make money in the future
Trust me I wish I had shares in JJP with what's Coming!!
I'm not sure Gary ever owned 100% of Stern. I'm not sure he personally had millions to buy the company from Sega. More likely, he had some silent partners in '99, and added some more ofter the 2008 meltdown.
Quoted from KingPinGames:First "real" update in .... how many pages ago was the last one?
posted on the Pinball Sales Facebook page about 20 minutes ago
"Some 500+ Hobbit glass arriving for inspection."
11295715_933125670083915_2956989014108070869_n.jpg
OOOOHHHHHH........glass.
Quoted from beelzeboob:I'm pretty sure I live close to you. I'd love to buy you a drink sometime and hear why you're so negative all the time. There's gotta be a reason.
If you're ever in Indy, drinks are on me. I'm not negative, just not wearing rose colored glasses about JJP. Some people still are. I find it a fascinating look at human psychology.
There was a time when I was super hyped up about this pin.
Quoted from Goronic:He probably gets tired of people like me that are excited about the hobbit, or like the JJP games. So I don't mind too much if he comes into the JJP threads and talks about how bad JJP is or how much the games suck. His opinion, ignore is an option if you feel someone is just trolling. He has good comments from time to time in other threads; but he definitely seems to have a strong hatred for all things JJP as far as I can tell. Oh well...
Drinks are on me for you too, Goronic.
Quoted from Goronic:Wooohoooooo!
I hear you - but I guess I am happy for any pinball manufacture that wants to create pinball machines. I only ask that they when they take money they actually deliver!
I agree 100%
Quoted from Goronic:By the way, the Star Trek you own is freaking awesome. Played it a few time locally - that is solid pin for sure. But I am also a Star Trek fan - so that helps.
And I'm a Hobbit fan, which I why I was so interested in this at one time.
Oh well, I'm sure it's still better than WOZ.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Somebody cue the music. I'm sensing the start of a wonderful bromance here.
Damn. I thought you were the other Kirk who lives about a half hour from me. Too many Captain Kirk avatars. It gets confusing. If I were you Trekkie guys, I'd try to distinguish myself by using Uhura or some other loser from the show that nobody else would ever touch.
Or just use a picture of a dog with a cigar. That always works.
There is only ONE Captain Kirk, and I'm him!
i-m-captain-kirk-o.gifQuoted from Goronic:If I get a Stern it will likely be Metallica or TRON (Star Trek is close, but not quite close enough for me to pull the trigger on getting it).
I am actually very interested in JJP's 3rd pin. For some reason I just like JJP machines better than Sterns. I know - I'm nuts. Whatever...
If there were Tron Premiums.....I'd get one. LE is batshit expensive.....
1 week later
Quoted from Frax:Random question....when did Thiel leave Stern, or are these guys working on a contract basis for each game? Just based on Thiel's work on Tron Legacy alone, it's a disgrace they would let him go anywhere... that was a smart snag by JJP. Sorry if this is old news to everyone else but I just put 1 and 1 together.
Thiel did Star Trek and Mustang. That seems to have been his last two. Have no idea if he's just out of rotation like designers do sometimes.
Quoted from Pimp77:That would be a shame and a dumb move by Stern if true. The guy (like CG) is fantastically talented and made/makes incredible sound/music packages. Tron is one of the best sound/music packages ever made.
Depends what the conditions of his contract where. He may have been an employee who left. He may have had an exclusive contract gig with Stern, that would terminate if he worked for a competitor.
I'm sure he knew what he was doing when he left for JJP. Nothing sinister here.
Quoted from Pimp77:Didnt imply anything sinister happened.
Just saying that if Stern "shut the door" on Thiel working for them in the future because he's working for JJP now, then that's sad because he is a major talent.
And I was saying he may have left on his on volition.
Quoted from Pimp77:Yes, i agree. That is more likely than not actually.
Most likely cause, like the rest of us when we change jobs; money.
3 weeks later
Quoted from Pinchroma:You just quoted a song by the Jonas Brothers.
Please deposit your man card at the door and exit in an orderly fashion.
When you're late, you shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses.
Quoted from Pinchroma:That made absolutely no sense. You also obviously have no sense of humor.
And btw Star Trek sucks
» YouTube video
Still think Star Trek LEDs only makes 3 colors?
Quoted from lowepg:You're right.
And I suspect no matter how ridiculous of a comment he makes, or how many promises broken or lies told - some people here will defend him regardless....
Or how late. Even next July, people will still be making excuses for why the Hobbit hasn't shipped.
"It's almost done! 4-8 more weeks!"
Quoted from kaneda:Will be best game of 2016. The wait will be worth it.
I corrected that for you.
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