Quoted from ek77:At this stage of WOZ they had games at the shows makes one wonder about delivery dates.
Did anyone else actually understand this statement? This guy has an almost incomprehensible grasp on the written word.
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1 month later
Quoted from PanzerFreak:After owning a WOZECLE for 6 months I can say that I don't mind waiting for their next machine. Hopefully though we don't have to wait that long. I do think that the software for The Hobbit will be more complete than WOZ's code at launch.
significantly.
1 month later
1 month later
Quoted from playernumber4:Note to self: Buy Escalera...buy Escalera....
Note to self, buy stock in escalera just before TH ships 
Quoted from MrBally:Remember, nobody on Pinside knows more about powdercoating than........ never mind.
Me and that's a fact. Smartass name dropper 
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:I'm very relaxed! Laughing and drinking wine.
That explains a lot.
Quoted from Jigs:Here is a bottle opener that we had made in our warehouse that measures the same as what you describe. There were probably 40 of these made in a few days, for wrap gifts for various folks on the crew. It took one artist, and I realize this is not a very high standard either. But, this was just a fun wrap gift.
We shoot small items all the time and with high-def we have to be incredibly accurate with details. I think a lot of folks here expect the same.IMG_0821.JPG 122 KB
IMG_0820.JPG 140 KB
Ok let's say per your example it took multiple people 3 days to make 40 of these. How long to make 12,000+ needed for the game? Seems like many years to me.
Quoted from JoeJet:Is it just me or does the Orc look like Charles Barkley?
Or does Charles Barkley look like an Orc?
That's TURRIBLE...
Quoted from juanton:I'm just curious Craz, since you own WOZ, who are you going to turn to if you need service or technical help? You've pretty much burned your bridges with JJP.
As much as I think his comments are trite, condisending and down right rude some of the time I still would help him with his game because he is a customer and that's our job and we strive to provide the absolute best customer experience.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:It's spelled "con-de-scend-ing" Alex.
You can thank the new iPhone dictionary actually spelling things incorrectly. But thank you for proving my point.
Quoted from beelzeboob:Alex goes so far as to leave JJP open houses when he knows I'm coming
Quoted for truth . Lol j/k
Quoted from meSz:Is Jack at the German version of Ponderosa Steak House?
I nearly spit my drink all over the keyboard with this one. Good show.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:That's assuming you actually thought WOZ looked great "as a package".
I was hoping Hobbit would look much better (and it may) ...
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:It really is amazing that you can find time to do anything for JJP. I mean ... to be able to monitor Pinside 24/7 and immediately jump on anyone who has the slightest negative thing to say about JJP. Impressive.
Considering what I actually do for a living I don't see how it's surprising Plus I have scripts that skulk threads so I get notified on replies to me so it's very easy actually. But I guess the same thing can be said of you.
"It really is amazing that you can find time to do anything for anybody. I mean ... to be able to monitor Pinside 24/7 and immediately jump on anyone who has the slightest positive thing to say about JJP. Impressive."
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:You missed this one Pinchroma. Care to comment on whether these cheap plastic axes are the final pieces that will be in the game?
No idea. I work on what goes on underneath the hood. I'm not a creative / visuals guy. Why I don't even address things Aurich says are for a multitude of reasons:
1) He actually provides genuine feedback because design is a core competency of his and he ALWAYS provides constructive criticism with points to be addressed. Not just "This sucks and that sucks". But makes realistic suggestions on how to fix them and as you can plainly see those criticisms were consumed and actioned where appropriate and feasible.
2) He doesn't DRONE ON AND ON with the same negative point incessantly. That's where you come in and why not only I but just about everyone else is tired of the drivel. We GET IT! You sound like stewie in this family guy clip (Thanks Greg this one is a fav of mine).
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Want to talk about TH's all metal ramps and rails? You love comparing WOZ and TH to TWDLE. That game has metal ramps and rails right? I mean for $7.5k+ it has to right?
Don't even bother.
One of my favorite quotes from one of the masters:
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -George Carlin.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:I don't understand why you always feel the need to turn the forum into an elementary school playground. And then if I actually respond to your childish attacks I'm the troll.
If others can post their same opinions over and over then I guess I will too.
So you don't actually care to reply to what I said about the drivel? Because it's correct. That's why you are one of the most THUMBS DOWNED people on this forum. That's because the masses are incorrect about how you act and everyone else is the asshole.
Check..
Got it..
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:I'm VERY confident that 90% of all thumbs downs against me are coming from the same 7 or so folks who literally thumbs down me on every thread I post. I'm interested in talking about games ... you're interested in bashing me personally and trying to discredit me.
Yup.. same 7 or so folks. Or maybe you meant 27?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hobbit-update-1/page/33#post-1906336
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hobbit-update-1/page/34#post-1906367
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hobbit-update-1/page/35#post-1907877
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Uh huh. Right. So using this thread as an example ... First is Aurich's reaction to the pop-up toys. Then immediately after his post was my own. Clearly, Aurich (no offense Aurich) has several suggestions on improving these and clearly my post was hate filled with a "this sucks" tone to it.
It's all about the history. And yours is tainted. How you don't actually understand that baffles me. You are trite and repetitive. Like I said Aurich has opinions about creative elements of games. He also provides feedback on ways to rectify those again where feasible. The playfield was a great example of that. Feedback noted and mods made. You NEVER provide any feedback that can be construed as anything but pissing and moaning and again about the same things OVER and OVER again. Please for the love of god just stop. No one is listening (consuming) what you are saying. It's just static and as everyone knows who has left an old TV on overnight that noise becomes deafening.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Of course it is and of course it does. Just baffling. It has nothing to do with Jack's (and now all of JJP's) fixation and tirade on me personally as being the only person on Earth who has some negative opinions for you.
Ever stop to think why people single you out? It MUST be everyone else. It just has to be. 
Quoted from Pimp77:Because they care and are interested in feedback?
^^^ This Constructive feedback is always welcomed.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:What color?
Fuscia with streaks of neon orange.
But in all seriousness that i'm not sharing until people actually see the game. Nice try though
Quoted from lllvjr:Really? Linoleum lives a few towns from me and built a pinball 2k game in his basement faster then tbl. Designing a game is a great accomplishment, building a company and making thousands of those games and selling them is a little diff.
All I see on TBL is a looping video and some swirling (non rgb) LED's. It looks like a damn cool game but it's not ANYWHERE near finished but I can say one thing. With JP doing the video it's going to be REALLY awesome. His work is just fantastic.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:I think part of the difference includes some very poor business decisions on JJP's behalf to build all their own custom hardware/platform? (among other poor decisions.) That had to consume a lot of time and resources.
Wrong. Platform had nothing to do with it. In fact that was one of the quickest pieces because it's all COTS hardware. The I/O board is the only piece custom designed and that was done very quickly as well.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Right .. because everyone knows the most difficult and time consuming part of building a pinball machine is the code.
I thought we had heard about several revisions of the I/O board (or some custom board) over the course of the first year of WOZ development? If this was done so quickly then perhaps you can better explain what the most time consuming difference was with WOZ development to explain the nearly 1.5 years more it took JJP to show a lit prototype? Something we still haven't seen from JJP's 2nd game Hobbit after nearly 2 years now, right?
And thank goodness the studo for TBL did not demand ugly revisions to toys/artwork.
I'm on a roll again tonight ..
1.5 Years MORE to show a lit prototype? So you are saying it took 2.5 years to show a working prototype? You really are clueless.
And there were a few iterations of the I/O board during the initial development. That was to make it do what we wanted it to do at the SPEED we needed it to perform at. It's called getting things right.
Panzer is correct. You are just a troll. You are comparing 2 different companies with 2 different products and some how trying to make them match so you can prove some type of nondescript point?
The TBL machine looks awesome. I think it's going to be a winner but comparing it to anything else is asinine.
I really am trying to see things from your point of view but i can't get my head that far up my @55.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Umm, so how long did it take to see a fully-lit complete prototype (minus code)??
2 different products?? Really?? You don't see any slight similarities there, huh?? And you don't understand the question I'm asking? Not clear enough? I'm asking .. what challenges did JJP face that caused them to take SO much more time to show a lit, powered-on prototype? It has been less than a year since DP announced TBL. I would just like to understand why it appears to have taken JJP so much longer.
about a year? 13 months i believe from announcement. So around about the same amount of time.
Again you are comparing APPLES to ORANGES. Get your facts straight. We had a custom platform, "lit" as you call it with individually addressable RGB LED's that flipped in 13 months.
It was announced in 2011, here it is in 2012 at expo more than just "lit"
Again please get your facts straight before opening your mouth. It seems like every time you open it, it's to switch feet.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Hmm, I thought JJP announced WOZ in January of 2011? But Expo in 2012 was when they revealed a fully-built, powered-on WOZ? So it was 22 months (not quite 2 years) from announcement to reveal, no? So sure, 22 months compared to a little over 11 months is "about the same". And has it not been 22 months again since the announcement of Hobbit and we still have not seen a complete prototype? Those sound like the facts to me. I'm not sure what you're trying to spin.
Comparing one pinball manufacturing startup building their first game to ANOTHER pinball manufacturing startup who just built their first game is "comparing apples to oranges"?!??
incorrect. The one in expo was running .78 code. The "lit" one which was flipping btw came out in Feb of 2012 running .11. So again you are wrong. 13 months. And it was FLIPPING not just a light show.
So please save the oxygen for the rest of us and just keep your trap shut
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Are you referring to the white wood flipping?? That was Oct. 2011. With no artwork or final toys (not even the witch or cyrstal ball??) Yeeaaah .... no, that doesn't count IMO. A half-baked game is not a prototype. We did not see a complete game with final toys and artwork until much later (much later than Feb 2012, you're wrong.) And you do realize expo is in October, right??
You can keep spinning this and trying to make me out to be the one who is delusional, but I think you're actually making yourself look bad at this point.
Wow you are CRAZY. I wasn't referring to the flipping whitewood. In any event I (and many others) can't tolerate your idiocy any further. Change your meds. Until then on ignore.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Seriously?? Again with the personal attacks and gangpiling on me? All the personal attacks on me and childish name calling (and camel toe pictures??) ... that's not embarrassing. But me expressing some negative opinions in a respectful way, that's embarrassing "to the community"? The majority of my posts last night were simply correcting Pinchroma who stated that a full WOZ prototype had been produced and shown in just 13 months from first announcement (comparing it to DP's time taken to produce a TBL prototype.) That's just not true.
Again it's everyone else BUT you. Take a hint (and a hike).
Quoted from OldPinster:Actually, I think your posts are every bit as annoying and unfortunately just as informational. As a JJP employee don't you have some small updates or information you can actually add in here? Can you not comment on what percentage you think the Hobbit code is at this point? Can you not drop hints about how many modes people can expect? Anything?
If not, stop attacking him and maybe he won't have anything to respond to?
You're making the assumption that I would leak anything. Not going to happen . Lorenzo is correct. Complete game coming very soon .
Quoted from dannunz:Yes Pats game is close behind the hobbit. Remember Pat does all his own stuff. He is very self sufficient. When you don't have the long delays of the approval prosses things move much quicker!
Pat has a separate design and dev team. It's basically parallelized with hobbit.
Quoted from John_in_NC:No, you were being obtuse. "in that case you can also claim that WOZ and TH never had a pre-payment plan either"
Look, I'm just saying you have filled this thread with loads of crap, meaningless argumentative points, repetitive statements and opinions. Fine have an opinion, state it, then be done with it. Really no need to continue to add negative value to a conversation. What is the name of this thread? oh yeah, Hobbit update.. Got any, no? anything meaningful or informative to say? no? then STFU already.
+10000. A thread boot is in order to keep things on track.
Quoted from Pimp77:I'd want my money going into a GAME feature instead of a camera for high scores...but that's just me maybe.
Would actually be very easy to add it on and have it save a picture from the camera as your attract mode image
1 week later
Quoted from ek77:In ever direction?
You of all people shouldn't be commenting on someone's obvious keystroke error. You can barely form a coherent sentence.
4 weeks later
Quoted from Pinhead1982:Maybe when pin is released after a few months we home collectors could get a sly code with the non approved sequences
Not going to happen 
. Sorry.
1 week later
Quoted from John_I:You can't be serious? The game designer is long gone from JJP. At most there will be a few superficial changes like a hurried replacement for the book after it suddenly became a "placeholder" when the game bombed at Expo.
Wow are you a negative nancy.
Quoted from John_I:Just saying not to set your hopes to high so not to be too disappointed. At Expo everyone expected the Smaug toy to be the greatest thing since sliced bread and we all know how that turned out.
Turned out to be the greatest thing since sliced NY bagels 
Quoted from ZenTron:Its hard to believe there is a market where people drop 9k on a pin without knowing any of the details and a seller shows a prototype a couple of months before the game is suppose to ship and still has "surprises" for folks spending 9k.
You mean like in the car market or the high end electronics market or the pro audio market? Bad ass boys like their bad ass toys
Quoted from Pinball1971:My opinion is wait till you see more. Because when everything is speculated, your fantasy rises up and then it could be dissapointment when the fantasy matches the reality. Sorry for my bad englisch
Another brand new account made just a few hours ago with this being the first post. Seriously Robin you need to make it so that people at least accumulate some Karma before they can post These fake accounts are getting plentiful.
Quoted from epthegeek:Wasn't expecting the LCD to be tucked up in the corner like that. Interdesting.
Almost always in the field of view.
Quoted from John_in_NC:I liked the old art but the new art blows it away. Nicely done. PF LCD placement needs work IMO. Looks shoehorned in.
Hobbit PF-update.png 2.9 MB
The housing isn't final. It will look more integrated in production models.
Quoted from DarkWizard:I already emailed Jack asking if there is anyway I can get the prototype artwork, although upon close inspection it looks like there are subtle differences in the inserts and one of the roll overs by the pop bumpers so probably a no go.
And also no artwork at the bumpers exit so you likely wouldn't want it. Just whitewood at the exit on the old art.
Quoted from juanton:Is the new playfield art for the both models, or just the Smaug edition?
both
Quoted from oscarspa:I agree that the playfield art is definitely best part about this update, so apparently no other major changes, the four underground traps has dual function ?, targets and tunnels ?, the smaug interacts with balls ?, I hope more information
The ball flow has changed with the pops and an open drop out. Thats a core design change.
Quoted from PinballRulez:Alex, does the following update of the playfield impact the way Beowulf is used:
- Closed entrance to shooter lane from outlane
I believe they are exclusive but i'm not sure. I haven't played the layout yet.
Quoted from Rockytop:Hey Alex,
I love the changes so far. Just curious, when Jack said new shots, was he referring to the bag end change, or is their something different with the Smaug area planned as well?
Can't say I also haven't played it so I don't know. I'm a code jockey
Quoted from kidvid:Where did you hear this? That's really good news!
You just heard it from the horses mouth. That's Matt. The brilliant artist behind Smaug and the sculpts on the playfield
Quoted from RealityCheck:Jesus. Its all the same fanboys on a different day. It's absolutely amazing how little can change on this game and suddenly it's "amazing". The rest of the world are just rolling their eyes.
Smaug is still just a silly talking sock puppet (and still mediocre artwork at that). The gold Smaug is just altogether ridiculous. What about the rest of his body and what about him actually interacting with the ball directly? JJP never listened from day 1. The thing is just silly.
There is a serious lack of actual toys in this game. Extremely weak for the price. I can pay 4500 for a NIB Stern and get more. TWD looks like an amazing bargain right now! That's the sad truth ("oh, but the lcd screen and real metal wireforms ... ", shut up. Give me a break fanboys).
Oh hey, ramp etchings! sorry but they are completely boring. couldn't do some figure or symbol or something more creative there?? It just seems like another weak attempt at following Stern. No creativity whatsoever.
The apron ... just new artwork? I really liked everyone's idea of an interactive and lighted map. I thought that was a no-brainer. This is just another step back. How can you describe this as anything else? people suggested and had been hoping for an interactive apron of some sort (or at least add in some amazing backlighting or something original!) Again, completely boring, static, and unoriginal. Certainly not what I would expect in a seriously expensive game like this.
They threw on a 5" lcd ... which now looks completely out of place, boring, and who knows what they need it for to begin with. Lift your eyes 12" higher to the much touted 22" lcd for crying out loud!! It's basically pointless and at this point the modders could have done a much better job integrating it into the game. What a waste and at the expense of not having a 2nd toy at that. Even yet another step back from WOZ, this time the crystal ball. Terribly weak.
Overall cohesiveness ... im sure it is just me but this looks like a complete mess. A serious kludge. I guess this is what happens when you lose your lead designer.
In the end Im thinking ... maybe this could be moderately fun ... if it cost 5000-5500! But at the price they're asking they've not done their job. A big step back from WOZ. A huge disappointment from what many of us were hoping for 2 years ago.
The fanboys can (and will) thumbs down this all they want. This game will not sell thousands which is what JJP really needed. Hopefully there are enough of you who will still buy no matter what (or are too lazy to cancel or you're still holding onto your pipe dream that this game will somehow go up in value, lol). Because its up to you boys and girls to keep JJP alive until Pat's game comes out.
What's up Craz4pin. Welcome back under a new account. Mods?
Quoted from Skyemont:Damn. I was going to say the same thing. Pinside member since "today". LMAO.
And that's my point to that "silverballz" guy who is always causing problems in every JJP thread. People who create a brand new account and their first and only post is inflammatory woz/hobbit hate are just trouble makers/trolls. And he actually disputes this. That right there kills any credibility he had if anyone believes these accounts are made for anything but instigation. Someone so defensive of them may be the source of some. Who knows.
Quoted from Jvspin:Do tell Lloyd! What do these new mechs add to the usual bash troll experience?
The MM mech was a bit sloppy. On mine it would sometimes wiggle loose and sometimes sway a bit left to right. These mechs are significantly beefed up and mounted in a different way. No slop.
Quoted from Jvspin:Thanks for the clarification Alex. I guess that puts a stop to any further flights of fancy....or does it?
Lol. There is more to it than just that.
That is definitely Craz4Pin. The constant use of ellipsis. The same diatribe. This guy is a piece of work. Mods please handle that.
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:I find it odd Craz4pin's account is unlocked....yet he has zero posts on this big Hobbit reveal day. Then there posts like this. You do the math.
This is when Craz4pin shows up if his account is reenabled saying I swear it's not me. When the dude had 3 different accounts he was using to post from all with mildly different but all ridiculous banter.
Quoted from RealityCheck:Ellipsis' s? If he is the only other person to find this game lacking and incredibly overpriced the yes, I need to meet my doppelganger. Sorry to hurt your feelings.
Wow man. You couldn't take the ban and just leave. You had to make yet another account to bother us all? Just take the hint.
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:I don't give a damn what you think. Full disclosure: I don't like you one iota.
Your name means Captain Christmas. Christmas is a happy time Don't worry be happy!
Quoted from j_m_:for the most part, I think that they hit the nail on the head and addressed most of the issues that people complained about @ expo, however I've got one question which has been bothering me.
so, is the circled orb (which lites up) supposed to be smaug's eye when he first awakens?
if so, doesn't anyone else find it odd that we have smaug under a pile of coins and above him, we have smaug's long lost twin brother that is "revealing" himself as the pile of rock rotates?!?smaug twin.jpg 72 KB
No it just lights up the gold Again nothing is final yet
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Except JJP's model so far is not the norm. Pinball has been made for decades without feedback. Once JJP starts unveiling Pins ready to sell, there will be no more "Feedback".
That isnt true. While features may be complete, code and gameplay adjustments are something we have the ability to modify readily based on feedback and i believe we have shown that.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:I was speaking of features, not code.
As Stern shows....the code comes later........
Yeah... I'll let you stew a bit on that comparison again.
Quoted from B9:Someone did it about 18 seconds into this video
» YouTube video
Thats Jesse from Pincades.
Quoted from ZenTron:Thats a fair comparison, 10 years ago and half the cost
Everything 10 years ago was half the cost so it is a valid comparison. Simpsons PP made today would be an "LE" and cost 8k.
Quoted from Noface:I just paid $8,000 for a Disney cruise that will be over in a week.
I just went on the Disney fantasy 5 weeks ago and stayed in side by side balcony cabins for 5 people and it only cost 4900. You need a new travel agent lol.
Quoted from HunchbackHodler:What's this about Peter Jackson's approval? Did anyone at JJP mention his name or Wingnut Films when it comes the licensor problems? It's not a crazy idea seeing that I saw the Wingnut logo in JJP's videos.
Elements of the game made it all the way to Peter Jackson for approval. (Or denial as ideas the case)
Quoted from someoneelse:It is risky, but confronting someone with accomplished facts often leads to completely different results than limiting the possibilities by upfront discussions. This is especially valid if the party you are arguing with has no connection to the product you are designing and lacks imagination of what the outcome could be.
And also potentially wastes a TON of time and money building something you won't be allowed to use. Which is why license holders want information and approvals up front.
That whole "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" thing doesn't work with licensing.
Quoted from MrBally:Mybad, I thought Pinballsales.com sells in Florida. Does JJP have "protected territories" now?
Give it a rest. You know all distribs can sell everywhere. But curly is the local distrib in Florida. You really are cranky Bruce.
Except you are running out of time to get the SE. Won't be sold past the end of the month. Whatever is on order is what gets made.
Quoted from beelzeboob:The end of WHAT month? I thought it was the end of December...
End of December.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:Ive had enough frames of reference to know I don't like bright white gi leds in a game. Its a cost cut plain and simple.
Wait, Bright white GI costs less than Warm White GI which everyone uses? Not the last time i checked.
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:Where did I say that? Single color leds cost less than rgb leds. No one here can honestly tell me they would rather have white leds in the gi instead of rgb. If you can youre in the minority.
You mean the no one as in the people who complained the RGB LED's gave off no GI in WoZ? You're right. We fix a problem and people want the old problem back. LOL.
Quoted from heckheck:Come on. That problem was 90% light pipes, not the LEDs themselves. Light pipes are gone right? Problem solved.
With respect to pumping out enough lighting for GI, RGB LEDs are just as capable as mono color whites. Let's not cloud the issue here that the change was specifically to fix a problem if it wasn't.
But how do you get a surface mount addressable LED above the playfield and say under a sling?
2 weeks later
Quoted from JerseyJack:They are the same gold color - YES -
They are NOT REAL GOLD!
LOL
Iron pyrite base
Even if Rob left out every other word and spelled the remaining words backwards he would still have better grammar and sentence structure than Ek. Lol.
Quoted from ek77:Don't worry Rob Captain pin head alway goes to the grammar argument when his argument is weak.
Don't worry Rob, Captain Pin Head always goes to the grammar argument when his argument is weak.
^^^ Fixed that for you. I'm not sure who you are referring to but quite a lot of folks think a tutor is in need
Quoted from PinballRulez:Robin really should open a chatroom here on Pinside............
Easy to do. Pinside live chat? Have him point DNS and me and i'll host it
Quoted from jwilson:Why are you guys shitting all over this game? The changes so far all look pretty good.
Plus, it's actually going to get built, unlike *some*...
I don't think they are shitting on it (Some are but they shit on everything LOL), they are providing valuable feedback to which we consume and in a lot of cases address. The feedback loop is extremely important. Again as we have said we don't make this game for us
Quoted from zr11990:Just got a refund. Ill be squirreling that money away for a deposit on PLs next game. THLE just doesn't do it for me. That PF looks too bare.
It's actually not bare at all and it's an AMAZING shooting game and setup properly is really fast but to each his own. There is a shoe for every foot.
When people kept calling BS when we said the license wouldn't allow us to do x and y we knew the fact of the matter. People kept comparing it to other games on the horizon that seemed to have free will with their license. Well as we now all see, Licensing guidelines aren't a suggestion. I think that should be the end of that particular discussion. Lol.
Quoted from joelreeves:Sorry if this has been answered already...
Joe Balcer left the project a long time ago. Who has been in charge of changing the
playfield and the game overall since his departure? I think a lot of things have been changed
since he left.
We do have a second well known (understatement) designer on staff
Quoted from PinballRulez:Alex, does the SE version have a mat gold finish or a polished one?
Do you happen to know if the version that will be at FREDDY's Pinball Palace has the powder coat that also will be used on the production SE model?
Neither and I'm pretty sure it will be. It's neither polished nor matte. It's an aged gold look purposefully. Iron pyrite base which is a real metal not a fake flake.
Quoted from statsdoc:Alex,
Is there a gold that you can point to at prismaticpowders.com that approximates the gold on the SE? I liked the gold on the early renditions on the JJP website, but the latest picture looks more brassy. I am curious what the color will look like in person.
Thank you.
No unfortunately. It's not brassy at all. It's a metallic gold but doesn't look like mustard which is nice
Quoted from RobT:Yep, a lot of powder coat colors are hard to photograph/render, but this color is probably about as hard as any of them.
Anything metallic that subsequently reflects light will never have an accurate representation. Best bet is to shoot in natural sun light and hope you don't get any glare but even then it's sketchy
Quoted from Rick432:Alex,
What kind of Hobbit are YOU getting? LE or SE?
Lol. Whatever dev game can be put together from spare parts.
Quoted from RobT:Does Prismatic really give free swatches to people other than shops who use their powder?
Anyone can order free swatches.
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:I would love to have a definitive answer to this question. Are the rails the same color on both the SE & LE versions, or do the rails match the color of the trim on each version? Can Alex shed some light on this?
Wire forms match game.
Quoted from Pimp77:We've seen pics of both! Go onto the website now and take a look. Do you want a badass dragon and sweet two stage gold powder with real metal flake or nut sack goblin and ugly white bad guy with the dull single stage gray?
For me it's an easy choice. But for all the ribbing I'm giving the LE guys it's just in jest. The LE looks really nice too and I'd be happy with it if that was the only choice. I just personally like the SE way better. It's up to the eye of the beholder to decide what they think looks best.
It's a 2 stage as well . Just a non super gloss clear.
That's a question for jack as to what policies they will have on how they are sold. May be by game serial number? No idea though.
Quoted from jazc4:I considered this. Just seems like more money and trouble than it's worth. Plus with time, someone will probably make it possible to put the extra attract mode on the LE.
Negatory
Quoted from cscmtp:V
My video from the link is WOZ?? Is it Hobbit audio loaded on the WOZ I take it?
No it's probably playing through his audio input or Bluetooth kit.
2 weeks later
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:If he final version amazes me and I never have to deal with Alex I may be on board : )
You do realize I do quite a bit more than tech support. LOL
Quoted from CaptainNeo:» YouTube video
I now realize why I never had a desire to see that movie. It looks just awful.
T2 isn't even a stern game so based on the previous comment it's irrelevant.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Didn't say it was. Was pointing out that T2 had one, as the person I was replying to may have had them confused.
Now, troll elsewhere.
I was referring to the person you replied to. Now learn to read a threaded discussion.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Yes, JJP would never recycle old pinball technology like say....drop targets...and then make a Pin full of them.
This was the dumbest post so far of 2015. Yeah. Why recycle old pinball tech like flippers and balls and slingshots too. Because that's pinball. Wow. Just wow.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I disagree. I think the dumbest post award goes to the post about no individual controlled drop targets before. Only done since...ummmm... 1980. Maybe even before.
Point out a game that has multi bank (or even single) BI-DIRECTIONAL drop target control.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:Shadow
No it doesn't. I had a shadow. The game can reset the target.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:You sure you have one? Better think about that one more time....take your time..you'll get it.
I actually just checked and I'm correct. The sanctum wall is NOT a drop target. Nice try though.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:it's a drop target.
Keep telling yourself that but it's not. It has no mechanism to allow for ball controlled drops and it also is actually the REVERSE of what a drop target would be.
Why am i even arguing with the guy who thought MM's came with decals.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:fine pull up the mech for magic castle. It's 1983 technology anyway. Better example.
Try again? Maybe third times a charm?
Never once does the software down/up reset a target. Every target is hit by the ball to drop it with just a basic reset.
Quoted from Sammy31:Well I admit I don't own one, but i've played about 20 games. I know, it's not much really, but I'd have to say that the third flipper was still an afterthought to me because it didn't have it's own "shot". I assume knowing the rules better would give the flipper more life....
It actually has a few of its own shots like shots directly through the pops for the skill shot or ball target direct hits.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Thank you! You just made my point for me! The post I was replying to accused Stern of recycling olds parts, like a cannon. My post was filled with irony and you just bolstered my case.
Thank you again for your cooperation.
They do recycle old parts. The twd crossbow is identical to the mech from Austin powers. How is that debatable? That said comparing it to components that make up a pinball machine is inane.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:I think your analogy is wrong. Comparing engines would be like comparing SS with EM. Comparing drop targets would be like comparing the door on your 2012 car and a Model T. Yup, they both swing open same. outward.
The analogy is perfect if you are comparing things from 3 decades ago to now and saying they are "the same technology" which is incorrect. May be the same principle but not the same technology. It's like comparing the Henney Kilowatt to the Tesla S.
Quoted from beelzeboob:I do read the Stern threads. All they get is "where is the spinner?" and "when will the code be finished?" and "how many bash toys will Stern put out?" And then the thread is over. Nowhere near the ball busting JJP takes.
I would invite him to come see the factory but it's a really long distance for his wife to drive. 
Quoted from DylanFan71:WOZ didn't ship with complete code. I just updated the os on my phone. We live in an era of evolving software.
Apples and oranges though. We completed woz quickly with multiple updates monthly in the beginning to every 45 days towards the end with people in the loop every step of the way and no ambiguity about work being performed.
Quoted from Pimp77:Cool...that yellow MMr armor in the background bugs me. Uggghhh. Glad Hobbit gold looks great and not like that yellow color.
I was waiting for someone to notice that. You can see the monumental difference between the two.
Quoted from pninja005:So why do they set it up wrong on an expo show?
Subjective. I watch one video where people are blasting the ramps and the ball is moving fast as can be and another where someone can't make a ramp shot to save their life. We could increase the pitch all the way and increase the flippers to a ridiculous strength and all that does is make the game significantly harder and people only get one ball.
it doesn't make sense to have someone play a one ball game only to have it drain 10 seconds after it's launched. The game is purposefully set up so people can demo the features.
Quoted from DarkWizard:I can agree with that also, but again I am playing advocate for people who don't own it and may only play it occasionally on location.
I personally, can get over the scoring. But I buy my machine for everyone I know to come over and enjoy.
And as dumb as it might be, the question will get asked. "Why are the scores on this so low?" , I do better at LOTR than (insert lower scoring pin here). [Even though they may have actually done better at the lower scoring game]
I also don't get what the big deal is about asking for this relatively simple option to be added to the code. If you don't like the option, don't use it Just like 5 balls instead of 3. (I don't use 5 ball, just using that as a reference)
All that being said, I can get over it if necessary.
The other thing to remember is when WOZ came out everyone was scoring 10-30k because there just wasn't anything in the code to allow for big points. It was basic shot scoring and a few multiball multipliers. Now a good game on woz is 1.5MM a fantastic game is 3MM. The scoring will change and will be larger. It won't be in the billions or probably even tens of millions but it won't leave you feeling like you didn't accomplish anything either
Quoted from pinballrebel:If I had a 1.5 mil game on Woz I would faint.
Ken
You and me both. I have thousands of games on it and I think I broke 1MM once?
3 months later
Quoted from RobT:Funny how you are the only one in this thread who is defending Sj1000 and what he's saying about JJP, including the negative financial things that he's implied.
Then again, you were formerly Craz4Pin, so I guess it all makes sense! Back to troll JJP threads and encourage others to do so under a new handle. Good luck with that.
Funny, His account was created at the exact same time the last crazy4pin account was banned. Significant coincidence don't you think?
I didn't say you were sj1000. I said you are crazy4pin. You seem to have a large amount of knowledge of history around here given your account is but 4 weeks old. I somehow doubt you spent those 4 weeks reading years worth of threads cover to cover.
Odd isn't it?
2 months later
Quoted from PinballSTAR:Ha ha... Well Jack just text me that I need to bring a stick, now I get it... Too funny...
Things are good guys, little more patience... Had an hour and a half conference call with Jack Saturday and the future is looking good. Hang in there... The guy always ends up coming through time and time again. Nothing great comes easy...image.jpg
Joe if i wasn't up to my ears in dev right now i'd swing by too
Quoted from RobT:Congrats!
I have been seriously considering selling most of my collection in order to get a Hellcat.
image.jpg
Better off getting a tesla. It's faster . It also won't fall apart after a year or have regular electrical fires after a year Like everything that comes out of Chrysler.
I literally took a video of the 5th or 6th grand Cherokee bbq this year on my way in to work. They are just firepits on wheels.
Quoted from RobT:Yeah, cuz Tesla's never catch on fire!
(and the Tesla is not faster than the Hellcat in the quarter mile)
It's actually significantly faster and only 1 tesla caught fire due to it striking a piece of rebar on the highway that punctured the battery to which tesla designed a titanium plate that now spans the entire underside of the car. Never happened again.
Quoted from pinstor12:Alex, would it be possible 5 or 6 people forgot to put oil in their engine? Or drain plug not tightened?
5 or 6 people with the same problem on the same stretch of road in a 5 month period with trucks that are less than a year old? Yeah.. No.
MOTOR TREND: P85D 0-60 MPH - 3.1SEC, 1/4 MILE - 11.5 SEC @ 126.2 MPH
Price as tested: 69,750
MOTOR TREND: Hellcat 0-60 MPH - 3.7, 1/4 MILE - 11.9 @ 123.2
Price as tested: 82,450
My driver was taking me to work when we came across another Grand Cherokee BBQ
I copy and pasted the price as teSted backwards. The hellcat is cheaper but not by 30k.
Tesla turns way more heads. Especially around here. The hellcat is "meh, just another challenger".
While I agree the tesla looks are pedestrian given its performance it's still one of the fastest sedans on the planet without getting 9 mpg. And given the hellcat has an 18gal tank at 3.95 a gallon @ 9 mpg the cost of ownership is huge.
Cost of ownership on the tesla? Next to zero. Maintenance is free inside warranty and it costs about as much to charge it as brewing 2 pots of coffee
Well cost to charge for me is free but I digress.
Quoted from kaneda:What do you want to be seen in?
Tesla.. without a shadow of a doubt.
Along with my German and Italian stable. I wouldn't own one of those if someone else's money paid for it. I value real performance. Any schmuck can make a car go fast in a straight line, it takes real engineering to make it go fast around corners. Lets see that hellcat hit an 30' apex at 85 without rebounding and sending its driver nose first from pushing into a wall. Granted, american cars have gotten better given most of them are now tuning at the 'ring.
As a racing instructor, if someone brought that thing to watkins, limerock, vir, or pocono, I sure as hell aren't going to instruct in it. That much power and no road manners = instadeath. Ask the owners of the carrera gt's.
Rob, For someone who has owned an exige (I think or was it an elise), i'm shocked you would ever want something like this.
Quoted from RobT:Why? It's not like I don't have a complete understanding of what the car is, and what it is not. This is 100% pure unadulterated muscle! Nothing like it. Did I mention 707 horsepower from the factory?
I've owned plenty of great handling cars, like the Lotus Exige S and a Porsche Spyder. Great fun! Love the handling of both of those cars. Both will *easily* out handle the Hellcat. Duh.
But neither one of them has anywhere close to the raw power that the Hellcat delivers. If you don't think that kind of raw power can't give you as much of an adrenaline rush as a slower but great handling car, I don't know what to tell you.
» YouTube video
My e63s has 644hp 654/lbft after a tune and pipes, and can't turn for shit. It's boring as hell to be honest with you. I just would rather turn in and power out than just go fast in a straight line which you can't do much of anyway without going to a drag strip. Sitting around all day for 3-4 11 second passes is just not fun. I'd rather have 6-7 45minute sessions over a weekend (3-4 a day) where I can hit that same top speed you see at the dragstrip, over and over again.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:03b74c9b6adcb477fcff5ac2ac6836d887c5c36afab39b2c9ec09aae1e57dbe3.jpg
LOL no.. not quite. It did sound pretentious but no its not like that. I travel a shit ton and I have a dedicated livery driver that gets expensed
Quoted from chessiv:Making more friends one comment at a time. Well, unless you own a jeep and have probably burned to death
Sorry we can't all be as popular as you. 
Quoted from Roostking:You obviously like cars that look like half a belly bean. And comparing a Carrerra GT to a Hellcat is just hilarious.
what the hell is a belly bean. The e63 is a good looking car and the analogy was cars with tons of power that are death traps on the track. Since you likely have driven neither I can't see how you can comment further.
1 week later
Quoted from eggbert52:Hey did you know the Jonas Brothers wrote a song about the release date of "The Hobbit?" Check it out!!
» YouTube video
You just quoted a song by the Jonas Brothers.
Please deposit your man card at the door and exit in an orderly fashion.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:When you're late, you shouldn't be throwing stones in glass houses.
That made absolutely no sense. You also obviously have no sense of humor.
And btw Star Trek sucks
Quoted from flynnibus:modular design
Modularity is a double edged sword.
I definitely see people wanting to swap playfields and software every time they want to play a different game and keep playfields stored in a protective way when not in the machine around the house. Sounds totally plausible. Go downstairs to get a quick game of X in only to find you left Y installed.
Damn... Have to open door, take out the glass, lift the playfield, disconnect everything, ensure you lift it out of the cabinet without damaging the cabinet or the playfield, place it down in a way that wont damage anything, unbox the new playfield, lift it up and gently put it in the new cabinet, connect everything up, double check connections, install new software, reconfigure game for settings you want, lower playfield, install glass, close coin door, take other playfield and repackage it in some type of hard case to prevent damage, and finally, Coin Up.
Damn.. wife is calling. There goes that quick game.
Quoted from frolic:I can see the real power of the swappable playfields for route operators with multiple locations. Bring a new playfield to Location 1 in your CAR, swap it, bring that playfield to Location 2, etc, etc... would allow you to freshen games on location a lot more often because it is simple. That alone should increase coin drop.
But then that even translates well for home owners, swapping games becomes a lot easier, transporting easier, stairs going to basements are not nightmares, etc.
There are approximately 10,400 Pin2k machines built. How many "just playfields" do you see for sale? I think i've seen one in 5 years. That was swappable and no one went that route especially ops. They had a RFM and a SWEP1 right next to each other. It's great in theory but some ops have a hard time windexing a playfield with their skillset and you want them to swap a playfield and load software?
I'm not seeing it.
1 month later
Quoted from centerflank:The best audio in any pinball machine? You mean that one?
No we mean the one with audio straight off the movie soundtrack and no original clips at all. And I owned Tron for 5 months and I love the movie. There is only so much daft punk one person can listen too with no variability.
P.S. No Separate Ways.. Booooooooo.
You are misunderstanding. I meant i hate daft punk LOL I'm not a fan of the electronica genre. Just a personal preference but it wasn't good for me.
1 week later
3 weeks later
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I recall Alex posting a while back that powder coated ramps is not a good idea due to the amount of contact they receive from pinballs. As for actual brass that may look awesome but the entire ramp assembly looks pretty big and I'm sure the whole thing in brass wouldn't be cheap.
Powder coating ramps is a TERRIBLE idea. Habittrails are ok as they have a pre-determined path they take so ball tracks aren't an issue. In a ramp you don't want a groove to be created. The powder isn't thick but repeated pathing from the ball can certainly create a valley and that isn't something you want on a ramp.
Quoted from PinMonk:Have you done it? I have on The Shadow. No grooves on black powder coated ramps after like 10 years. Seems like speculation of people who haven't done it, based on my first-hand experience with actually doing it. Especially when we're talking non-routed pins for the most part.
Lol you must be new here . A quick search should clear that up. And the fact you powdered ramps specifically the ones on the shadow with the diverter potentially rubbing against it is going to be an issue you may not think so but it impacts the ball movement and skid as well as creates tracks. That's a fact.
Quoted from SilverBallz:great job making the new guy feel welcome. this place gets more and more like RGP every day.
It is possible there are no issues with his ramps on his Shadow. But you guys know everything ... that's a fact.
Because you are the epitome of a welcoming committee. SMH. There are few here who are as nasty, condescending, and boorish as yourself. And you get a kick out of it.
Have a great day.
3 months later
Quoted from PinMonk:Why not? I've powdercoated some and they look and hold up great.
No they don't. Powder coating ramps is a really really bad idea. Wireforms are one thing as the ball follows a predefined path, ramps will get ball tracks, valleys, and divots which will impact the roll of the ball significantly. There is a reason none of the manu's or pinball coaters will do it and it's certainly not cost. A ramp would be about the cheapest part to coat as there is little to no prep on it.
Quoted from PinMonk:I did this to a Shadow. It looked great and had none of what you are talking about. Still looked great years later after heavy play. I should follow up with the person I sold it to and see how it looks now ~5-7 years later.
What do you consider heavy play? Certainly not 2-3,000 games.
Quoted from Rick432:Not a powdercoater by any means, so no expert opinion here, but wouldn't powdercoating the ramps accelerate the degradation and smoothness of the balls? And wouldn't those damaged balls then possibly be more damaging to the rest of the playfield?
Nope. Powder may be hard but it's significantly softer than the steel used for ramps or ball guides. Bare metal is much more likely to cause ball scratches and issues.
Quoted from Goronic:I don't want my ramps power coated on the hobbit. If anything, that should be done by request, or aftermarket (if that is the right word?).
No ramps are being powder coated.
Quoted from playernumber4:I've been using Cerakote on rifle and handgun parts and its holding up like new. Have you ever checked the specs on it vs powdercoat? I have always wondered if it would be ideal for wireforms.
Cerakote is ceramic. It's caustic as hell to apply but SUPER durable. You could do it for wireforms but there is no need as powder coat holds up for years and cost wise its expensive in comparison.
Cerakote also has limited color options.
Quoted from emkay:Sounds like a good time to announce my new line of Nikasil-coated pinball hardware. Full Throttle machines come with it from the factory but everyone else can get in if they want, price no object.
Wait you guys put Nicom on a pinball machine? BWAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
You put an industrial high heat friction barrier on a pinball part?
Sorry. I love this in ways I can't even explain. Well maybe you won't need a coil sleeve anymore?
Quoted from PinMonk:Checked with the guy I sold it to, and it still looks fine, almost 10 years later. Also, he said he was inspired by my Shadow job to powdercoat his Stargate ramps gloss black, and after 4000 plays, it has no grooves, chips, pits, etc in it, either.
So I call bull. I've DONE the powdercoating, seen the results and lack of wear firsthand. I don't believe there's any reason they couldn't powdercoat JJP ramps to match rails of PF until I see some real-world testing that runs counter to my firsthand real-world years-long experiment, and my second-hand experience of my friend's powdercoating that had the same wear results when he did it - none. Aside from some dulling of the gloss, he said his is still perfect, and 4000 plays is plenty of time for some wear to show up.
You can call bull all you want. You've powder coated 1 machine I've done 4000. I think I have a little bit of knowledge here. I've seen it first hand. The "dulling" of the gloss is micro scratches. That will give way to tracking and also cause ball skid and direction change. It's not a good idea. Again there is a reason manufacturers don't do it and it isn't cost.
Quoted from PinMonk:You powdercoated 4000 ramps? Or 4000 external cabinet hardware pieces? Different. Applying external cab powdercoating experience to ramps seems like a stretch.
Also, the minor finish dulling after so long is little different than what you see on stainless steel ramps MUCH sooner. Given that after 4000 plays on the Stargate and almost 10 years on the Shadow, all that was evidenced was the minor dulling of the gloss, how many decades would it take before *actual* ball tracking happened?
Now, ball skid I can totally buy as a potential issue, but that would be due more to the gloss of the finish than the amount of wear in evidence after all this time. Basically the same as waxing the crap out of a playfield.
4000+ COMPLETE games not counting all the one off custom games and custom mixed colors.
Since you're pretty new let's apply a little bit of history and add some common sense on top. A good example game were the wire forms for batman forever. Powder coated from the factory in a neon green. After some years those wo reforms were chipping and missing powder and they looked downright terrible. Wire forms have a specific ball travel with little to no variability. They get damaged and need to be redone over time.
What makes you think a ramp, which has constant direct hits at a much higher speed than a typical wire form with varying levels of accuracy and entry angles won't suffer the exact same fate however worse? Because of your single HUO example?
Sorry but that's just not the case. It can and will get destroyed and impact the game.
Quoted from DaveH:At first I was wondering why this felt like two 4 year olds arguing. Now I want to wait it out and see who wins!
You're wrong!
No you are!
No I'm not!
Yes you are!
I know you are but what am I?
I just told you but you're too...
I'm hoping it ends up with my game having one powdercoated ramp and one correct to do a wear test of ball skid.
Practical real world experience my friend.
1 month later
Quoted from meSz:The last I read on the ramp issue was someone stated that the Hobbit, they had seen, had additional welds on it. Does anyone know if this is the case and if so is this actually JJP's "fix" for the welds breaking??
Apologies if this is posted elsewhere and I didn't see it. Just thought an issue like this would've had more discussion. Hopefully that's due to it not being an issue!!
Yes, additional brackets and additional welds is how you support welded metal.
4 weeks later
Quoted from lowepg:New money > Old money
False. He didn't order directly from JJP as he said. A distrib who likely had one in inventory he wanted to sell.
Stop spreading B.S.
Quoted from lowepg:Whats the BS?
His new money delivered a game YEARS ahead of old money (pre orderers).
I never suggested he ordered it from JJP... simply looking at the FACTS.
No you are making the statement that the particular distributor HE bought from had one in inventory and didn't deliver that inventory game to someone who was potentially waiting for it via a preorder from that distrib. There is no way you can make that determination. You have no idea if that distrib took any preorders at all or just purchased for inventory with the intent to sell later. Your premise and ASSUMPTIONS are just flat out wrong and have absolutely no way to be quantified. They were made with the sole purpose of causing an uproar.
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