FWIW I think it is important to see if a business is keeping its word. Repeatedly this has not been the case with JJP.

It might be semantics, but when the Dec. shipping date magically was delayed just a few days prior to the actual date (as if they did not know they were behind schedule then...), then in Jan. JJ said something to the effect of weeks, not months if I recall correctly. Now its months...

Do you see a pattern? I can.

They might ship the best game on earth eventually, but it sure as shoot won't be on the date they say they will.

So, "only" one year late. That should be JJP's next t-shirt for giving away at shows.

"We did it... and only 1 year behind schedule!!!".

One handed clap... especially as this seems to be the current "best case" scenario.

Oh, they need parts! Who could have known parts would be needed for a game! Maybe by game three they will have mastered knowing that parts need to be ordered in advance.

Double edged sword. It would be correct to say "just make it not suck the first time".

It is also correct to go back and fix it rather than blindly going forward with a flawed design.

Give me a six pack of concussions, 3+ years and around 13 million dollars in preorder money and I'll ship you a buggy code incomplete mess .

And don't hold me to any of those, you know, 'cause making pinball is "hard"

Jack is a braver business person than I am, but I at least have the sense to not run my mouth again and again just to be proven wrong. I'm glad he's out there toiling away making new games. But if the whole world ran on big promisers, exceptionally late deliverers the world would NOT be a better place.

But by the time it is actually releasted in 2018(ish) the MSRP will have drifted up to 12K, making all those who locked in at "only" 9K think they have a bargain! (see the several previous posts on this page alone for this effect at work...).

LOTR is a proven candidate for "one of the best pins ever made". Sure not everybody loves it, but most people who have played it at least respect it.

TH is not a shoe in for being a better ovall game. It COULD be, but honestly the odds are stacked against it.

It will be new and shiny, but 10 years on will it be regarded as the overall better pinball experience? I'll have to fuel up my Mr. Fusion to find out...

Answer will be The Hobbit, all day every day unless it is a total clunkfest dog. New and shiny will win. If you are an actual player and pinball enthusiast then it is definitely more up in the air.

I was going to say what might win in a casual battle between an EM and LoTR should be equally obvious... but I can see quite a few EM's winning that battle with easy to understand rules and not taking an hour between turns

Stop making sense! You are supposed to be hyped about preordering JJP game #3 before game 2 ships... you might get scooped up and sent to the JJP re-education center to correct your thinking on this.

Great post; it would help to know when it was posted though. In the last week I hope... not Dec. 2014....

Thank you. Relevant and helpful to know considering the game's timelines to date.

I think most reasonable people would consider TH to be a year or so late at this time (or when it optimistically may start shipping); sold and supposted to ship (originally) in summer-ish of 2014. Looking outside my window today it appears to be summer-ish of 2015.

I guess I can front run this logic and start arguing that even if the hobbit ends up shipping in Oct. 2015, it actually is a year early because it really should have started shipping in late 2016 based on .... something. (past experiences)?

OR maybe they have the licence to do the pin for just the next movie, and plan on releasing next year-ish? Who knows... the timing seems screwed up for that (i.e. if that is the plan it would make more sense for it to be JJP3...).

But it is fun to even be able to speculate on that. I think we all know what a Stern SWLE would look like at this point. It would probably not be bad, but likely not be something to get crazy excited about either at what will probably be a 10K price point by the end of the year...

That could be a thing; who knows, a surprise JJP 4 Original Trilogy SW pin timed for release-ish near the start of the next trilogy. Would be relevant on location for years, much longer than The Hobbit IMO.

Now that I type that out, I would much rather be my company on this idea rather than Lawlor's unlicenced table, but its not my company to bet (IF I was in charge at JJP, instead of WoZ you would have got a marginally updated MM clone or licenced sequel... low risk but low impact in terms of dreams... ).

Based on WoZ standard line jumping, why wouldn't you think if you place fresh order "near the start of production" you won't be getting your game near the front of the line?

Agreed. Most exciting thing about The Hobbit to me is the current development team.

Great sound is a must IMO for great games. IM is a good game, Thiel's sound package elevates it to greatness. Tron would not be half as hyped as it is without Thiel's work on sound.

Even Star Trek's relentless yelling and bleeps, boops and bongs is great for what it is (immersive, fits the theme well, and changes appropriately as the game state changes).

Confirmed Hobbit Shipping date:

Not to be snarky, but the current Hobbit info is "people have hundreds of thousands down but don't have any real idea when/if games will be shipped".

Talking about that for page after page seems a lot more depressing than Heighway JJP banter.

If I get a thread eject over this, then sad day for me, but them's the facts as far as I know. If you take the view to "just post positive stuff that is on topic" then may as well just lock this thread until we get a firm shipping date.

Just one pinsider's opinion, I could be wrong

I almost feel like I am being trolled.

Why on EARTH would you believe that JJP's "spring of 2016" release for Pat's game is accurate.

Quintuple face palm

Agree to disagree. I could easily be wrong, but here is one definition:
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/product-launch.html

By consumers having access, I mean this to be able to buy it. This is different from a product announcement

Picky stuff, but when I hear people expecting a launch, I want he rocket ship to be blasting off

You know what opinions are like? Remember how $T was the best game ever? Yeah, hobbit update stuff.

Maybe ~ 1.5 years behind is the new "on schedule". Seriously, just alarmingly terrible. Stern's rerun of LOTR if it happens will be about as tied to the release of the movies as the hobbit will be. Contractually obligated my ass.

This thread has run its course. The only thing left is to post sexy pics of The Hoff.

Neat stuff. And hearing about possible half-truths is hardly a shock at this stage.

They have a plan? That genuinely seems like news. And "facts", that's just so rich at this point...

Except for a distributor like say, oh, ... pinballsales.com (owned primarily/wholly by Jack?) could have put in an order for an arbitrarily large order of Smaug Editions, and can decide how many JJP fills.

Is that number 10K, 5K , ? Who knows. I am not aware of Jack specifically saying/promising he did not to this, so doing so would match the words of his agreement (e.g. orders before XX date can be Smaug LE's...).

Considering the WoZ LE variants, who would be surprised by this? I don't know for sure and am open to clarification by JJP/pinballsales.com, but they certainly don't owe a clarification. This should have been a known possibility from day 1 of the Smaug announcement.

Unless I have been living in crazy town, aren't both more or less owned by Jack (I have no idea about minority owners, if things have changed etc...).

But before there was Jersey Jack, there was "Jack from pinball sales.com". Jack played it ("it" being whatever the most recent Stern was at the time), and he liked it!

EVERYTHING is legit

Well, I'm glad that's settled. Act fast or you might miss out on a Smaug SE / LE / whatever... SEND MONEY NOW TO GUARANTEE A SPOT. THESE WON'T LAST FOREVER AT THESE PRICES.

BUY BUY BUY.

Oh dear. I was being sarcastic

But if you want to send $50,000 (USD) my way, i can almost guarantee you a game at some time between now and when the universe ends (with a bunch of caveats and legal disclaimers to cover my butt).

No. You have to sign a NDA to see the NDA you get to sign to get the deposit on the possible game that I may or may not hold for you if/when it gets produced (or not).

I think you may have accidentally added the word brick to your post; it is odd you praise a game for being so solid and awesomely built... then go on to list a slew of problems you have had. I can understand praising the support that have helped you solve the issues, but the build quality?

Agreed. Opening the hobbit update thread and finding hobbit updates was surreal a few days ago, glad to see it continuing!

Obligatory "March of what year?" question. Man have they blown their credibility. I am sick and sore, and probably should try to be more positive but If I had a nickel for every time I have seen one of these posts (which were ridiculously off the mark), I would have a Hobbit myself .

Good luck, hopefully this is the time the broken record stops skipping and can continue with the rest of the song...

So... do you consider what seems like half a decade of missed shipment dates (WOZ, then hobbit) a "pattern"? You must have JJP on "ignore" I guess.

I can agree with this to a point. They are pushing things, and hopefully they ship soon. But it is clear to me their internal development structure seems broken. They either have learned every hard lesson twice by now, or game three till be JJP's end (if they get that far). That is not wishing for failure, that is just looking at reality.