(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update


By B9

6 years ago



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#3001 5 years ago
Quoted from kaneda:

Can we all agree not to do that

I pre-ordered Woz and would do it again.

I pre-ordered TH and believe it will also be worth it.

I pre-ordered Alien. Favorite movie...ever. I liked what I heard from Heighway.

How much different is it than other crowd funding?

Maybe the people who pre-order are helping make the dream happen.

#3002 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

The 800 pound gorilla here is the Expo flop and all the cancelled orders. JJP and The Hobbit HAD to be a IAAPA. Not to mention IAAPA is a much softer venue for pinball. 99.9% of the people who go there haven't played pinball in 20 years if ever - believe me, I've been there. On the other hand FPF is a huge pinball show with all the main players there ready to critique the game. JJP did not want to chance a second flop in a month's time with the game about to release.

I think JJP is doing the best they can with the original layout that Balcer did and the very strict licensing requirements. With that being said I cancelled my pre-order for one reason...there are no interesting interactive toys in my opinion. For me to spend $7500-$9k on a pinball machine it needs to have features such as something that picks up the ball, tosses it around, traps it under the playfield, offers a mini playfield (or 2, like WOZ), a central interactive toy with two or more things that interact with the ball, etc. Some people are comparing The Hobbit to a 21st century EM which I tend to agree with but in the end I just can't see spending this type of money on an EM game.

I think The Hobbit will still sell well thanks to the extremely deep ruleset that Keith is cooking up, the games great looking updated artwork, and the interaction the player will have with the LCD. My hope with Pat's game and future JJP games is that we will see the return of more interactive toys. Just the other day I was playing a friends Star Trek LE and I thought to myself "damn, this ship toy is pretty cool, it has a drop target with a magnet and kicker behind that plus the ship moves all over the place". Smaug needed to be on that level of interaction (if not more) to keep me on-board.

#3003 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I think JJP is doing the best they can with the original layout that Balcer did and the very strict licensing requirements. With that being said I cancelled my pre-order for one reason...there are no interesting interactive toys in my opinion. For me to spend $7500-$9k on a pinball machine it needs to have features such as something that picks up the ball, tosses it around, traps it under the playfield, offers a mini playfield (or 2, like WOZ), a central interactive toy with two or more things that interact with the ball, etc. Some people are comparing The Hobbit to a 21st century EM which I tend to agree with but in the end I just can't see spending this type of money on an EM game.
I think The Hobbit will still sell well thanks to the extremely deep ruleset that Keith is cooking up, the games great looking updated artwork, and the interaction the player will have with the LCD. My hope with Pat's game and future JJP games is that we will see the return of more interactive toys. Just the other day I was playing a friends Star Trek LE and I thought to myself "damn, this ship toy is pretty cool, it has a drop target with a magnet and kicker behind that plus the ship moves all over the place". Smaug needed to be on that level of interaction (if not more) to keep me on-board.

LOL...of all the interactive "toys" to compare with, really, the ST ship?? It's a drop target and magnet UNDER a the ship. The ship does nothing with the ball. It's a cool "toy", but it's not interactive.

#3004 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOL...of all the interactive "toys" to compare with, really, the ST ship?? It's a drop target and magnet UNDER a the ship. The ship does nothing with the ball. It's a cool "toy", but it's not interactive.

How about Rudy from Fun House? At least with Rudy, the taunting head had direct interaction with the ball...

#3005 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOL...of all the interactive "toys" to compare with, really, the ST ship?? It's a drop target and magnet UNDER a the ship. The ship does nothing with the ball. It's a cool "toy", but it's not interactive.

No kidding, that ship really isn't very cool as far as a "toy" goes. But then I just don't like ST overall.

Quoted from DougPiranha:

Maybe the people who pre-order are helping make the dream happen.

Thankfully there are people like us willing to pre order, otherwise we'd still be looking at just Sterns.

#3006 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOL...of all the interactive "toys" to compare with, really, the ST ship?? It's a drop target and magnet UNDER a the ship. The ship does nothing with the ball. It's a cool "toy", but it's not interactive.

I see your point. However, the entire ship area in ST comes off as more interactive then Smaug currently as it interacts with the ball more then the Smaug area. The same goes with the central flying saucer area in Attack From Mars, Rudy's head in FH and the pirate ship in POTC. All 3 of those games have a main area that offers the ability to open up other shots and / or direct interaction with the ball.

I know that the Smaug area isn't complete yet and that the entire area may come off much more interactive as things are filled in.

#3007 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOL...of all the interactive "toys" to compare with, really, the ST ship?? It's a drop target and magnet UNDER a the ship. The ship does nothing with the ball. It's a cool "toy", but it's not interactive.

And yet...it appears to be a *much* cooler toy than what Smaug is going to be.

#3008 5 years ago

I don't know. Smaug moves a bit which is underwhelming but he talks which is really cool and they have all the Smaug speech from the movie to work with.

#3009 5 years ago
Quoted from ozno:

I don't know. Smaug moves a bit which is underwhelming but he talks which is really cool and they have all the Smaug speech from the movie to work with.

Don't forget the magnet next to him. Also the cool fire he will
Spit out.

#3010 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

And yet...it appears to be a *much* cooler toy than what Smaug is going to be.

Maybe, but a tail diverter and claw diverter (maybe on left wireform) would make it cool, added to the synchronized speech.

10
#3011 5 years ago
Quoted from Santeh:

How about Rudy from Fun House? At least with Rudy, the taunting head had direct interaction with the ball...

Yeah but Rudy wears make up. I couldn't care less if Smaug eats the balls or ever touches it. Its still a cool premise and the facts the he looks around and talks to you is enough for me. That not going to make or break this game. JP really isn't all that fun and Funhouse is a great pin but not very deep. Lets just wait now and see how the final product comes together. If I get it home and dislike it then I'll sell it, take the loss and move on, its pinball, its supposed to be fun. Backing out because Smaug doesn't interact with the ball to me is foolish.

#3012 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Yeah but Rudy wears make up. I couldn't care less if Smaug eats the balls or ever touches it. Its still a cool premise and the facts the he looks around and talks to you is enough for me. That not going to make or break this game. JP really isn't all that fun and Funhouse is a great pin but not very deep. Lets just wait now and see how the final product comes together. If I get it home and dislike it then I'll sell it, take the loss and move on, its pinball, its supposed to be fun. Backing out because Smaug doesn't interact with the ball to me is foolish.

Agree. Game is not out yet, not finished, etc..... Look at everyone who said WOZ is going to suck. When it comes out lets then judge it somewhat. Code updates will be coming out to improve it month after month so let's give it a chance.

#3013 5 years ago

Turns out the MMr people had three machines at IAAPA and did not bother to come to FPF either. I was talking to Marco tonight and we were both scratching our heads why they did not bring games either. Oh well...

#3014 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Yeah but Rudy wears make up. I couldn't care less if Smaug eats the balls or ever touches it. Its still a cool premise and the facts the he looks around and talks to you is enough for me. That not going to make or break this game. JP really isn't all that fun and Funhouse is a great pin but not very deep. Lets just wait now and see how the final product comes together. If I get it home and dislike it then I'll sell it, take the loss and move on, its pinball, its supposed to be fun. Backing out because Smaug doesn't interact with the ball to me is foolish.

Thanks, but I did not back out because of Smaug as I was (and am) fairly okay with what it was. I was only using Rudy as a side for the Star Trek Vengeance reference.

#3015 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Turns out the MMr people had three machines at IAAPA and did not bother to come to FPF either. I was talking to Marco tonight and we were both scratching our heads why they did not bring games either. Oh well...

This is a good point and one I had not considered. Has Planetary had an exhibit at the Southern Pinball Festival prior to this year?

#3016 5 years ago
Quoted from Santeh:

Thanks, but I did not back out because of Smaug as I was (and am) fairly okay with what it was. I was only using Rudy as a side for the Star Trek Vengeance reference.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you or anyone in general, except the Rudy wears make up and that was a joke. I've seen many people state the toy was disappointing to the degree they cancelled and that's ok, just to me seems strange as that means that was the main purchase point for them. Anyway don't care really.

#3017 5 years ago
Quoted from Santeh:

This is a good point and one I had not considered. Has Planetary had an exhibit at the Southern Pinball Festival prior to this year?

No, but they also were not at IAAPA previously as far as I know.

#3018 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you or anyone in general, except the Rudy wears make up and that was a joke. I've seen many people state the toy was disappointing to the degree they cancelled and that's ok, just to me seems strange as that means that was the main purchase point for them. Anyway don't care really.

No worries at all... Overall I do feel that toys in pinball machines are great, but game play is most important and at this point I am too concerned in this area for the Hobbit.

#3019 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

No, but they also were not at IAAPA previously as far as I know.

That is interesting and a little concerning as it is the same question presented to JJP; why not attend the SPF/FPF as this is a show directed at the pinball and arcade community?

#3020 5 years ago

Double post.. Sorry!

#3021 5 years ago
Quoted from Santeh:

No worries at all... Overall I do feel the toys are great, but game play is most important and at this point I am too concerned in this area.

I can see that, I can't tell though until I have it at home and play under the right conditions. I had a fella come by today, he bought my DM and he wanted to try my TWDLE, he was quite taking with it but passed buying one based on videos and the gossip. Sometimes it works the other way too, I bought Tron based mostly on pinheads telling me its great and all the hype, it was gone in a month.

#3023 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Turns out the MMr people had three machines at IAAPA and did not bother to come to FPF either. I was talking to Marco tonight and we were both scratching our heads why they did not bring games either. Oh well...

PPS/Chicago Gaming at IAAPA. Its a great big show with many orders being placed for equipment.

PPS at IAAPA.jpg
IAAPA 2014.jpg

#3024 5 years ago

Marco was very impressed, as he took time away from his booth, see picture above to go check out all the buzz and orders being written up.

#3025 5 years ago

Jersey Jack Pinball at IAAPA.

JJP at IAAPA.jpg
#3026 5 years ago

Stern Pinball's booth from IAAPA

Stern at IAAPA 2014.jpg
#3027 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Obviously not.
If we actually all agreed to that, nobody would ever buy a pin since we could never play it first.

And pinball would not be where it is today;

I doubt JJP would be in business, forget Skit-B, JPOP and the list goes on.

Just Stern!

15
#3028 5 years ago

IMO "Toys" are really way overrated in pinball, especially in the long term.

In the vast majority of cases they are there to attract the player to the game, it's the what does that do factor to lure you in, but after discovering what they do, it quickly wears off. What makes a game great is combination of shots, sound, light and a gratifying experience when you reach a goal, not the action of a playfield feature that you've seen a million times before.

What will make or break The Hobbit will be how the drops and pop-ups are integrated into the rules and how satisfying the quests in the game are, not if Smaug touches the ball or not. That said, it seems completely forgotten that he does shoot the ball at you from right beside his head, at Expo I initially thought it was coming out of his mouth, so it does somewhat give you that illusion.

#3029 5 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

The T-Rex only ate the guy on the toilet. It Is really scary for kids 4 and under. We had to remove the pin from some Carmike cinema locations due to the ball being gobbled up. I never understood until I watched the movie with my 4 year old who loved dinosaurs up to that point. I still remember the one cinema manager demanding we get the pin out now, we can't have kids crying and saying " mommy take me home" and the dads being forced to get refunds. The best license ever costs us as we ordered 6 and had to remove 4 of them in the first week and incredibly Data East had us the pins 2 days before the movie opened.

really? A 4 year old can't handle watching a ball get eaten by a dinosaur? JP is not a movie for a 4 year old anyway. if they can make the connection from the guy on the toilet scene and the machine, they should have not seen the movie. PG means no little kids. Hell, I saw Raiders of the lost ark at age 6. Scared the shit out of me. Probably shouldn't have been there, but dad wanted to see it.

But. I loved IJ. wanted to be an archaeologist until I found out it wasn't as exciting as IJ was. So just because something scares the shit out of you, doesn't mean it's not leaving a positive lasting impression on you.

-3
#3030 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOL...of all the interactive "toys" to compare with, really, the ST ship?? It's a drop target and magnet UNDER a the ship. The ship does nothing with the ball. It's a cool "toy", but it's not interactive.

Please....the Vengeance is the most interactive toy since the castle in Medieval Madness.

It functions as all of the following.

1. Bash toy that reacts when hit. (Yes, I know the ball doesn't touch it, but the ship is part of the whole mechanism, and the illusion is complete. Quite ingenious, since it saves the toy from damage.)

2. Ball Lock (virtual and magnet)

3. Skill shot target

4. Defeated mode (Premium and LE)

and something the castle doesn't do.....

5. Fires ball back at you.

-2
#3031 5 years ago

STLE is really off the charts, should be in the top 5. Yeah I'm a Startrek fan but it wouldn't matter if it was some other space sci fi theme, the speed, flow, look and sound are amazing. I personally love the modes and multiballs. The vengeance is awesome and Kilngon multiball is something special, the latest code really helped and I think after this next update STLE will become a classic. It will never dethrone TAF and MM,MB etc. but it should have already.

-2
#3032 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

LOL...of all the interactive "toys" to compare with, really, the ST ship?? It's a drop target and magnet UNDER a the ship. The ship does nothing with the ball. It's a cool "toy", but it's not interactive.

And even if what your saying was true.... it still does more than the dragon does. Thank you for making his point. The visual effect is supposed to be like your hitting the ship when it goes in there.

#3033 5 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

Please....the Vengeance is the most interactive toy since the castle in Medieval Madness.
It functions as all of the following.
1. Bash toy that reacts when hit. (Yes, I know the ball doesn't touch it, but the ship is part of the whole mechanism, and the illusion is complete. Quite ingenious, since it saves the toy from damage.)
2. Ball Lock (virtual and magnet)
3. Skill shot target
4. Defeated mode (Premium and LE)
and something the castle doesn't do.....
5. Fires ball back at you.

it's still just a drop target. Does about the same as the joker does on batman Dark knight. Makes a toy move. least the ship in POTC gets hit, moves, sinks and opens up a new passage. I like the Stern ST, don't get me wrong. but the "toy" is not all that great or inventive. Castle on MM is much better. I think I like the black bug target better on SST.

#3034 5 years ago

Are you guys kidding? The ship moves around upon being hit, lots of interactive sound that goes with , which is amazing by the way, magnet, drop target and it fires the ball back at you with the speed of WarMachine. Modes and mulitball based on that toy. It looks great? Have you guys played this game?

#3035 5 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

Please....the Vengeance is the most interactive toy since the castle in Medieval Madness.
It functions as all of the following.
1. Bash toy that reacts when hit. (Yes, I know the ball doesn't touch it, but the ship is part of the whole mechanism, and the illusion is complete. Quite ingenious, since it saves the toy from damage.)
2. Ball Lock (virtual and magnet)
3. Skill shot target
4. Defeated mode (Premium and LE)
and something the castle doesn't do.....
5. Fires ball back at you.

I think the ship is an ingenious way of repackaging tried and true (read: RELIABLE) pinball parts and turning it into a great interactive toy/experience that ties into the game perfectly.

#3036 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

it's still just a drop target. Does about the same as the joker does on Batman Dark Knight. Makes a toy move. least the ship in POTC gets hit, moves, sinks and opens up a new passage. I like the Stern ST, don't get me wrong. but the "toy" is not all that great or inventive. Castle on MM is much better. I think I like the black bug target better on SST.

I don't see it as anything like the Joker. Sorry, but it's much more interactive. I've already listed what it does.

#3037 5 years ago

Am I in the wrong thread?? ...thought this was hobbit update.

#3038 5 years ago

I agree, the Vengeance toy is nice. I have been trying to find a good model of that one, and they are hard to come by. Sterns is one of the best I have seen.

Back to the Hobbit, Smaug will be corrected a bit by Matt, and teeth will add a lot, so I expect it will actually turn out better than most people think. Actually I am not too worried about Smaug anymore. I actually think Bag End area needs some attention (and I bet it gets it). I think the biggest issue is using a fan layout in a wide body. I could suck as much as rock - time will tell.

-1
#3039 5 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

I don't see it as anything like the Joker. Sorry, but it's much more interactive. I've already listed what it does.

Yes, its not unlike the borg ship in STTNG. Technically the borg ship (toy) is just a plastic shell that does nothing. It's various elements combined under the hood that give it the effect that that ship is doing all this extra stuff. Both ST ships (STTNG and ST 2014) also give the appearance of a complete ship. Smaug as it stands now is just a disembodied head.

So far what we have seen of the Smaug "toy" or "area" is the same thing, a spinning talking head, and that's all. What else will "Smaug" do? Inquiring minds want to know. Clearly its not going to be the animatronic pinball juggling robot dragon (I'm only partially joking) that we were hoping for, but it could still be cool.

#3040 5 years ago

The top right flipper is used to hit 5 drop targets that spell DWARF or can possibly hit some trolls?

i.e. The top right flipper offers no functionality that the bottom two flippers can't perform?

#3041 5 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

So far what we have seen of the Smaug "toy" or "area" is the same thing, a spinning talking head, and that's all. What else will "Smaug" do? Inquiring minds want to know. Clearly its not going to be the animatronic pinball juggling robot dragon (I'm only partially joking) that we were hoping for, but it could still be cool.

I think the second vuk, magnet, diverter, subway and additional programming (movement, light effects and sound\ sound effects) will make this a way more cool 'toy' than most of us expect. It only gets better

15
#3042 5 years ago

I don't get all of this. Smaug will talk, turn his head, has drop targets (plural!!!) before him , an upkicker and I think 3 diverters and 1 or 2 magnets to change the course of the ball and I saw 2 cool flashers, special eyes and teeth will be added. He can lock balls and kick them out to you in different ways.

Isn't that enough???? One of the best games out there, Spider Man, what are the toys doing in there?
They make a good show, a very good show. And I see already now what show Smaug will do in this game, when Keith and David bring him to life.
Smaug is just not implemented in the code to his full potential!!!! That's all for now. But is here anybody on pinside, fan or hater, that has any doubts Keith will not squeeze every little fun out of this part of the game he can?

Hell, I KNOW for sure this game will be great from what little I yet saw. And Smaug as he is now has the potential to become one of the best toys in pinball.

#3043 5 years ago
Quoted from Asael:

I don't get all of this. Smaug will talk, turn his head, has drop targets (plural!!!) before him , an upkicker and I think 3 diverters and 1 or 2 magnets to change the course of the ball and I saw 2 cool flashers, special eyes and teeth will be added. He can lock balls and kick them out to you in different ways.
Isn't that enough???? One of the best games out there, Spider Man, what are the toys doing in there?
They make a good show, a very good show. And I see already now what show Smaug will do in this game, when Keith and David bring him to life.
Smaug is just not implemented in the code to his full potential!!!! That's all for now. But is here anybody on pinside, fan or hater, that has any doubts Keith will not squeeze every little fun out of this part of the game he can?
Hell, I KNOW for sure this game will be great from what little I yet saw. And Smaug as he is now has the potential to become one of the best toys in pinball.

I hope you are right...

#3044 5 years ago

Agreed, name the last talking toy in a pinball machine post 2000, zero. At least with moving mouth and cool speech. Smaug's voice is great in that film and will be quite menacing during gameplay. Can't wait to see this pin completed and in action. I think it will be a sight to behold.

#3045 5 years ago

Anyone figure out how the Windlance is going to work? Looks that the feed from the habitrails is not complete in the models shown so far.

The brochure says: 3 way left ramp can deliver ball to inlane, Smaug or Windlance.

#3046 5 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

Please....the Vengeance is the most interactive toy since the castle in Medieval Madness.

Ah no. IM has 2 interactive Magnet Toys - Whiplash and Iron monger (which rises out of the playfield). The illusions are complete here also but yet IM is always deadpanned as a low BOM cost-cutting machine. None of these mechanisms (ST or IM) could truly meet the definition of an interactive Toy any more than Smaug in it's current iteration could. Illusion is not interaction. Even true bash-toys (like the Well walker or Balrog) can only be considered interactive in the simplest definition - like drop-targets or scoops that fire the ball.

True interactive toys need to have some complexity and mechanical interaction with the ball. Not saying that you always need interactive toys. Providing great illusion that allows a game to pull us in is fantastic and I do agree that ST does that but it doesn't really constitute a solid interactive toy by it's own merits.

I think that after so many decades of pinball, many of us are just looking to be blown away by something more revolutionary. If we consider how far computers and video games have come along; pinball by comparison has stagnated (until recently - as we are finally seeing some new ideas, although not mind-blowing).

Great Hobby though.

Sorry for the slight change in topic. Looking forward to seeing the Hobbit and what it has to offer.

#3047 5 years ago
Quoted from Asael:

I don't get all of this. Smaug will talk, turn his head, has drop targets (plural!!!) before him , an upkicker and I think 3 diverters and 1 or 2 magnets to change the course of the ball and I saw 2 cool flashers, special eyes and teeth will be added. He can lock balls and kick them out to you in different ways.
Isn't that enough???? One of the best games out there, Spider Man, what are the toys doing in there?
They make a good show, a very good show. And I see already now what show Smaug will do in this game, when Keith and David bring him to life.
Smaug is just not implemented in the code to his full potential!!!! That's all for now. But is here anybody on pinside, fan or hater, that has any doubts Keith will not squeeze every little fun out of this part of the game he can?
Hell, I KNOW for sure this game will be great from what little I yet saw. And Smaug as he is now has the potential to become one of the best toys in pinball.

I think all of that only works if the Smaug area looks like one complete toy. Currently it doesn't and that's what's hurting it in my opinion. Some of us had the idea of having most of the back area being a large interactive Lonely Mountain toy where the back of Smaug toy is the gate of Erebor and then turns around to reveal Smaug. I know that the game isn't complete yet so there's still hope.

#3048 5 years ago

I will be shocked if this game isn't awesome when it is finished. The key word here is "finished". I'll keep expectation in check until then.

#3049 5 years ago
Quoted from jazc4:

I will be shocked if this game isn't awesome when it is finished. The key word here is "finished". I'll keep expectation in check until then.

+1, hence why I elected to go the HUO route. Yet if I had the funds to take a bigger risk, I would still be in on the Hobbit.

#3050 5 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

The top right flipper is used to hit 5 drop targets that spell DWARF or can possibly hit some trolls?
i.e. The top right flipper offers no functionality that the bottom two flippers can't perform?

Physically, you are correct, but Keith and Ted's software will make use of it. Pop bumpers to upper flipper to captive ball lights kickback for one.

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