(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update


By B9

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by GravitaR
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There are 10044 posts in this topic. You are on page 56 of 201.
#2751 5 years ago
Quoted from mummite:

I am sure it's still in the works where everything will be positioned, but the book is in an odd place. If this is it's final resting place then the pop cap with the detail should be moved out from under the book.
Also how will the new bag end shot work? Will there be a new switch there where the mode change switches use to be? a roll over button switch or something?

To me it, looks like there's a spot for a rollover button on the new playfield art. Jack called it a "Bumper 10pt switch between top and right (through-the-bumper shot)"

bag end.jpg

#2752 5 years ago

It is cool that the popup creatures can be hit from the back, and they register after doing so.

Maybe Keefer can use that in the rules, as he will know (based on the optos in the ramp) that the monster was hit from entering a ramp, then doing a uturn, and hitting the monster from the back.

#2753 5 years ago
Quoted from Santeh:

As a small side, I do agree with others who hope for another barrel on the third bumper...

Also, I do like the idea of a flasher in the barrel area in addition to the 3rd popper barrel. Could you place the flasher behind the poppers (or in the area) and have them flash blue (water) instead of yellow?

#2754 5 years ago
Quoted from mummite:

Also how will the new bag end shot work? Will there be a new switch there where the mode change switches use to be? a roll over button switch or something?

There is an opto across the opening.

#2755 5 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Also, I do like the idea of a flasher in the barrel area in addition to the 3rd popper barrel. Could you place the flasher behind the poppers (or in the area) and have them flash blue (water) instead of yellow?

If it is not a soldered LED, it might be possible to just swap the yellow flasher for a blue one once you have the game.

#2756 5 years ago

I didn't know there was a gold alligator in these movies. I'll have to check them out.

#2757 5 years ago
Quoted from micro:

It is cool that the popup creatures can be hit from the back, and they register after doing so.
Maybe Keefer can use that in the rules, as he will know (based on the optos in the ramp) that the monster was hit from entering a ramp, then doing a uturn, and hitting the monster from the back.

Ok that would be neat and that makes perfect sense with the outer mechs lining up with the orbits as well. That would also encourage people to shoot the popups because there would be less of a chance of hitting them and going SDTM. The MM trolls are cool, but you avoid them for that reason.

#2758 5 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

Jack called it a "Bumper 10pt switch between top and right (through-the-bumper shot)"

yes, this is what I was curious about. What does this mean is it just an opto or a button roll over?

#2759 5 years ago

A "10-point switch" is just a leaf switch behind a rubber. Slingshots are the most common manifestation these days, but we used them a few times in WOZ, too (bumper entry, near Throne Room popper, and by the state fair balloon).

#2760 5 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

A "10-point switch" is just a leaf switch behind a rubber. Slingshots are the most common manifestation these days, but we used them a few times in WOZ, too (bumper entry, near Throne Room popper, and by the state fair balloon).

Cool thanks for the clarification.

#2761 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm soooooo bored with the constant "flow" refrain. I have Star Trek, not a hater of fan layouts or Ritchie games, but for all that is good in pinball let's please not have every game be all about ramps that return to a flipper as fast as possible.
There are some great games with zero ramps and lots of drop targets.

I've been beating this drum for a looooong time. Flow games can be fun, but all Steve Ritchie games (ST:TNG excluded) feel the same to me. Software sets them apart somewhat, but there's only so much you can do with the same layout.

#2762 5 years ago
Quoted from alichino:

I've been beating this drum for a looooong time. Flow games can be fun, but all Steve Ritchie games (ST:TNG excluded) feel the same to me. Software sets them apart somewhat, but there's only so much you can do with the same layout.

To me, High Speed feels nothing like T2, which feels nothing like Star Trek.

Very different games, all with good flow.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Hobbit looks like it has a lot more flow than WOZ. It's a step in the right direction.

Post edited by Captain_Kirk: g

#2763 5 years ago
Quoted from Sammy31:

Unless I missed the post, nobody has yet discussed the return rail on the left side of the playfield (it leads to the left outlane/kicker)....looks like the mechanism that is supposed to place the ball on that rail is still missing...any ideas as to what is will be? I'm not sure if this was even mentioned on that list of "updates yet to come"...

There is a diverter that causes the ball to jump from the inner wireform ramp over to the far left wireform. There is an up-post in the outlane that can hold the ball on the kickback coil.

The code for all this is yet to be revealed.

#2764 5 years ago
Quoted from check_switch_26:

There is a diverter that causes the ball to jump from the inner wireform ramp over to the far left wireform. There is an up-post in the outlane that can hold the ball on the kickback coil.
The code for all this is yet to be revealed.

Thanks for the clarification!

#2765 5 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I didn't know there was a gold alligator in these movies. I'll have to check them out.

Don't spoil the surprise... The "Golden Alligator Edition" will be released in Fall 2016.

#2766 5 years ago

What a great game! I liked it from the beginning, but they really have polished and delivered a beautiful playfield and an amazing machine. Those LCD videos are just fantastic!! I really hope to add this machine to my lineup someday.

It is very exciting to watch the pinball market grow. All of these great new machines are being designed and making their way to the market. Opinions and preferences will always be there, but nobody can deny how awesome it is to see new innovative pinball machines being introduced.

Bravo JJP!!

#2767 5 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

To me, High Speed feels nothing like T2, which feels nothing like Star Trek.
Very different games, all with good flow.
Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Hobbit looks like it has a lot more flow than WOZ. It's a step in the right direction.
Post edited by Captain_Kirk: g

I hear ya. In my opinion stop and go games like WOZ can be just as fun as the fastest games out there. Increasing the flow in a game comes at the expense of reducing the number of toys or devices in a game that interact with the ball. For $7500+ I want a pinball machine to have multiple unique things that interact with the ball. WOZ does that in a variety of ways but I'm just not feeling that with The Hobbit right now. There are a lot of people out there that prefer flow over stop and go and vice versa. I'm glad that JJP is trying to please everyone with games that offer different styles of play. I tend to prefer WOZ style games at these price points which is why I'm holding out for Pats game. Alternating between a high flow game and a stop and go game sounds like a good design strategy to me as it pleases customers on both side of the fence.

#2768 5 years ago

FWIW, there are many opinions on what "flow" actually means. Be mindful that not everyone uses "flow" to mean "spoon-feeding the ball to the flippers via safe ramp shots."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-is-flow

If you want to share what flow means to you -- have that discussion in the "flow debate" thread, and let TH have it's discussion here.

-mof

#2769 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I hear ya. In my opinion stop and go games like WOZ can be just as fun as the fastest games out there.

+1
I have no horse in that game, and in JJP in general, but as of today I would choose WOZ over the Hobbit without hesitation. I played WoZ and liked it. I will try to buy one later.

I have not seen enough from the Hobbit to be convinced. Open PF with Trolls, multiple drop targets and a central double ramp: seems like mixing WPT, Fish tales and MM. And you would have a hard time convincing me a widebody format is required there. I tried to love the gameplay from the latest video but simply could not. But there is hope as code can be (should be) great, artwork has already been improved...

#2770 5 years ago

Roger Sharpe playing Smaug Gold.

image.jpg
#2771 5 years ago

Targets and the possibilities with Keith is going to be crazy good.

Man those "dots" look great. The LCD's, both of them, a huge addition to the pin, like Woz.

If only my TWD LE had an LCD, watching clips from the show of heads getting lopped off. It's time to make the DMD a thing of the past Stern!

#2772 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

... For $7500+ I want a pinball machine to have multiple unique things that interact with the ball. WOZ does that in a variety of ways but I'm just not feeling that with The Hobbit right now. There are a lot of people out there that prefer flow over stop and go and vice versa. I'm glad that JJP is trying to please everyone with games that offer different styles of play. I tend to prefer WOZ style games at these price points which is why I'm holding out for Pats game.

The question is whether the pre-pay discount will go away as JJP gets to the point of rolling out pins more like Stern. There was a notable discount for WOZ and Hobbit if you were willing to take a chance with Jack, which has paid off. In the future, the "chance" opportunity may go away. So ... are the prices we see for Hobbit today ($8k+) going to be the starting price for Pat's game? We shall see.

#2773 5 years ago

What's great about pinball is the passion and love people have for it. So much so, we've got 56 pages of people talking about a game ALL OF US will get to play very soon. What we all need to do is wait until the final game is out and play it before making claims about it being THIS or THAT. How can anyone possibly tell from now if it's better or worse than WOZ or any other pin. So much negative energy spent on speculation. Now for those who have one on order, I get it. You sort of want to know what you're buying. But the recent marketplace learnings do indicate that it's SO MUCH wiser to wait and play a pin before ordering / buying one. Especially with new pins as finding one that's HUO with low plays is easier now than ever. I for one think the Hobbit looks like a lot of fun. I can't wait to play it. I also love WOZ (minus the left lane drain which zaps all of the fun out of it). I just love pinball.

#2774 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Targets and the possibilities with Keith is going to be crazy good.
Man those "dots" look great. The LCD's, both of them, a huge addition to the pin, like Woz.
If only my TWD LE had an LCD, watching clips from the show of heads getting lopped off. It's time to make the DMD a thing of the past Stern!

While I agree, since it's 2014 and we should have moved on already - there IS still a "pinball specific" charm to well done dots. TWD has really nice animation, and it's appropriate that it's displayed in red. If you really want to see real TWD footage, you can watch the show.

#2775 5 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Roger Sharpe playing Smaug Gold.

image.jpg 94 KB

Very cool. Did he offer any thoughts after playing?

#2776 5 years ago
Quoted from check_switch_26:

There is a diverter that causes the ball to jump from the inner wireform ramp over to the far left wireform.

I wonder how this divertor will be covered up. I always thought this part of the game before we saw Smaug was going to be his tail swatting the ball over to the other wireform.

#2777 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I hear ya. In my opinion stop and go games like WOZ can be just as fun as the fastest games out there. Increasing the flow in a game comes at the expense of reducing the number of toys or devices in a game that interact with the ball. For $7500+ I want a pinball machine to have multiple unique things that interact with the ball. WOZ does that in a variety of ways but I'm just not feeling that with The Hobbit right now. There are a lot of people out there that prefer flow over stop and go and vice versa. I'm glad that JJP is trying to please everyone with games that offer different styles of play. I tend to prefer WOZ style games at these price points which is why I'm holding out for Pats game. Alternating between a high flow game and a stop and go game sounds like a good design strategy to me as it pleases customers on both side of the fence.

I love WOZ, but does it's toys interact with the ball more than Hobbit?
Ball interaction toys on WOZ:
1) Monkey
2) 4 playfield magnets
3) 3 castle doors
4) 1 drop target
5) 1 spinner
6) 2 VUKs
7) 1 ramp diverter
8) Wizard saucer
9) 7 rollover buttons
That's stretching it as most of those are just standard pinball things.

Ball interaction toys on Hobbit:
1) 11 drop targets
2) 1 ramp diverter
3) 2 VUKs
4) 4 pop-up beasts
5) left wireform diverter
6) Smaug diverter
7) 2 playfield magnets
8) 4 rollover buttons
9) kickback + up post near kickback
10) captive ball
11) 2 spinners
That's it, but maybe more to reveal?

You might say WOZ also has crystal ball and spinning house and trees...well, Hobbit has LCD book and animated Smaug and barrels, plus sling axes. The value is there.

#2778 5 years ago

Looks like a possible skill shot could be short plunge to upper right flipper shoot across off the upper sling and have it go to the pops.

#2779 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

I love WOZ, but does it's toys interact with the ball more than Hobbit?
Ball interaction toys on WOZ:
1) Monkey
2) 4 playfield magnets
3) 3 castle doors
4) 1 drop target
5) 1 spinner
6) 2 VUKs
7) 1 ramp diverter
Wizard saucer
9) 7 rollover buttons
That's stretching it as most of those are just standard pinball things.
Ball interaction toys on Hobbit:
1) 11 drop targets
2) 1 ramp diverter
3) 2 VUKs
4) 4 pop-up beasts
5) left wireform diverter
6) Smaug diverter
7) 2 playfield magnets
4 rollover buttons
9) kickback + up post near kickback
10) captive ball
11) 2 spinners
That's it, but maybe more to reveal?
You might say WOZ also has crystal ball and spinning house and trees...well, Hobbit has LCD book and animated Smaug and barrels, plus sling axes. The value is there.

Alot of those are just playfield elements, not really "toys" Targets, VUKs, Rollovers, Kickback, Spinners. Possilby half in and out of the toy realm might be diverters, magnets and captive balls.

#2780 5 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

We're more into fun than flow.

Not every game is for every person. I'm sure there are lots of other super-attractive options for you out there. I'm sure you also have some clue that games can be setup shallower/steeper and we have unprecedented control over coil power?

Well the game was initially touted with flow being a major design consideration, after WOZ which was clearly stop/go. That is why I bring it up so much. For the record, I like pure flow games AND games that are a mix with stop/go (TSPP is a fave of mine), but the latter tend to be much more polarizing across players so it's much harder to design a good one. I just really hope Hobbit IS a good one (I love the theme). Very hard to judge until one plays of course..

Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Pinball's supposed to be fun, I guess I don't get the constant worrying.

That totally ended when machines shot to 8K. It was much more fun when you weren't marrying 1/4 your pin budget to one machine. The price went up, the expectations went up along with it (fuelled further by long pre-order wait times). Higher stakes for everyone, manufacturer and consumer (be that home or operator).

Quoted from pinball_keefer:

The only further piece of advice I could possibly offer you is that you've seen the playfield now, it's not going to change further. Now you can either trust that Ted and I have some clue what we're doing or not.

Yes I know the design is set now. Trust of yours and Ted's talent IS the reason I'm still in. Being honest, it is the trust of your vision that is central here, as in it's current form, we can't see 1/10th of where you are going with the rules and software to make this game something really special. That you're passionate is a BIG plus. That you're very talented even BIGGER. In or out, I do truly look forward to playing the game.

#2781 5 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

Alot of those are just playfield elements, not really "toys" Targets, VUKs, Rollovers, Kickback, Spinners. Possilby half in and out of the toy realm might be diverters, magnets and captive balls.

Yes, I agree and stated that. Just saying that WOZ doesn't really have more toys than Hobbit was all.

#2782 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Ball interaction toys on Hobbit:
1) 11 drop targets
2) 1 ramp diverter
3) 2 VUKs

When did things like drop targets, diverters and VUK's become "toys"?

#2783 5 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

The question is whether the pre-pay discount will go away as JJP gets to the point of rolling out pins more like Stern. There was a notable discount for WOZ and Hobbit if you were willing to take a chance with Jack, which has paid off. In the future, the "chance" opportunity may go away. So ... are the prices we see for Hobbit today ($8k+) going to be the starting price for Pat's game? We shall see.

Pat's game will be released 3rd 1/4 2015. No teasers, unveiled and ready for sale. The momentum of JJP is finally getting there.

#2784 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Pat's game will be released 3rd 1/4 2015. No teasers, unveiled and ready for sale. The momentum of JJP is finally getting there.

Actions speak louder then words

#2785 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Pat's game will be released 3rd 1/4 2015. No teasers, unveiled and ready for sale. The momentum of JJP is finally getting there.

Is this true?

Does this also mean that there are no preorders for Lawlor's pin?

If so, I think this is really great news.

Then again, if Hobbit was sold without showing the prototype at Expo first, and simply sold once complete, all these improvements couldn't have been made based on the feedback provided.

#2786 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Then again, if Hobbit was sold without showing the prototype at Expo first, and simply sold once complete, all these improvements couldn't have been made based on the feedback provided.

I was thinking the same thing but hopefully a great designer like Pat doesn't need feedback from us to design a machine. I like all the changes JJP has made to TH and how they listened to feedback, but on the other hand part of me thinks they have no idea what they are doing with TH if it needed that much change from the prototype and none of it would have been done if not for all the criticism.

#2787 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

When did things like drop targets, diverters and VUK's become "toys"?

As soon as Stern started touting them in their flyers!

Seriously though...a game with zero spinners and a single drop shouldn't be compared to a game with 3 spinners and 20 drops as far as features go. (Even though it's standard features)

#2788 5 years ago

Any designer can use feedback, lets not forget Monopoly and Rollercoaster Tycoon etc. Anyway theme is most important and The Hobbit beats WOZ hands down. Its looking so great with that new PF and added goodies. Really looking forward to playing one. I hope Pat doesn't blow it with a cheesy or kiddie theme.

#2789 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Pat's game will be released 3rd 1/4 2015. No teasers, unveiled and ready for sale. The momentum of JJP is finally getting there.

3Q? Aaaauuuugggghhhh!!!

I was hoping for 2Q, maybe even the end of 1Q. Expecting a standard body game, so hope that keeps the costs down somewhat, though I will be prepared to pay a premium if Pat has some cool toys and great original theme/art/sound (which I expect).

But it's just cruel to make me wait until 3Q.

#2790 5 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Any designer can use feedback, lets not forget Monopoly and Rollercoaster Tycoon etc. Anyway theme is most important and The Hobbit beats WOZ hands down. Its looking so great with that new PF and added goodies. Really looking forward to playing one. I hope Pat doesn't blow it with a cheesy or kiddie theme.

Except JJP's model so far is not the norm. Pinball has been made for decades without feedback. Once JJP starts unveiling Pins ready to sell, there will be no more "Feedback".

#2791 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Expecting a standard body game,

Jack said it was a wide body not too long ago.

#2792 5 years ago
Quoted from heckheck:

Yes I know the design is set now. Trust of yours and Ted's talent IS the reason I'm still in. Being honest, it is the trust of your vision that is central here, as in it's current form, we can't see 1/10th of where you are going with the rules and software to make this game something really special. That you're passionate is a BIG plus. That you're very talented even BIGGER. In or out, I do truly look forward to playing the game.

The trouble with these early game views is that all you mostly get is a sense of the physical layout of the game. The playfield layout is important but only accounts for maybe 40% of the total game to me.

Sometimes you can get a sense of things you might not like. For instance when I saw the layout of Xmen I thought that Wolverine would cut off the left side of the playfield and on AC/DC I didn't like the way the cannon blocked the view of the right outlane. I don't see anything obvious like that in the Hobbit layout.

Pinball is essentially a target shooting game. Whenever a new game is revealed I like to count the number of shots available to each flipper. I count 16 to 17 shots from the left flipper and 18 to 19 shots from the right flipper (orbits, ramps, captive ball, targets and pop-ups). That's a lot of shots. Also, having drop targets and stand-up targets in the same location will cause the ball to react differently to the same shots.

I think a good playfield design is one that gives you plenty of things to shoot at and doesn't get in the way of the fun, like the examples above, or things like weak ramp shots that return STDM or a made shot to a scoop whose kick out drains 10% of the time. I think a good playfield design also has shot trajectories that feel smooth and make sense. Steve Ritchie is a master at this.

The rest is up to the software, sound and display guys to make the most of the available shots.

The best games also create a little world under glass that pulls you into the theme with its toys, art, models, etc...

From what's been shown so far, I would say the Hobbit has great potential. As you say, knowing that Keith and Ted are on the rules, David is on the sound and JP is on the animations leads me to believe the resulting game will be special.

#2793 5 years ago

One thing I like about this game so far versus WOZ is that there is fewer lights on the playfield.

WOZ is really gorgeous but I can't make heads or tails of what is going on due to there being, like, 200 lights all flashing or changing colours all the time. It's beautiful to look at but it's information overload.

This playfield is much simpler, and looks to be simple, clear lamp callouts.

I expect great things from this game.

#2794 5 years ago
Quoted from Allibaster:

Jack said it was a wide body not too long ago.

Missed that. Thanks.

#2795 5 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

Except JJP's model so far is not the norm. Pinball has been made for decades without feedback. Once JJP starts unveiling Pins ready to sell, there will be no more "Feedback".

That isnt true. While features may be complete, code and gameplay adjustments are something we have the ability to modify readily based on feedback and i believe we have shown that.

#2796 5 years ago

Pat Lawlor designing a non-licensed pin does not need feedback. Won't be able to afford it, but can't wait to see it.

#2797 5 years ago

Not sure if these have been posted in the thread yet. Some close ups of the pop-up targets.

10553547_883239105028020_25889468423025716_n.jpg 10547414_883239088361355_5110789221789366599_n.jpg 10410786_883239068361357_5805494845107521880_n.jpg 1235991_883239055028025_5537757959394666782_n.jpg 10313669_883347701683827_8816958678719869996_n.jpg
-1
#2798 5 years ago
Quoted from mcluvin:

Pat Lawlor designing a non-licensed pin does not need feedback.

Quoted from BoJo:

I was thinking the same thing but hopefully a great designer like Pat doesn't need feedback from us to design a machine.

Even if you accept that as true, what about feedback on things like artwork? One of the main (positive) changes to Hobbit based on feedback is the PF artwork. Is Lawlor an artist? I doubt he has a ton to say about artwork.

#2799 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Even if you accept that as true, what about feedback on things like artwork? One of the main (positive) changes to Hobbit based on feedback is the PF artwork. Is Lawlor an artist? I doubt he has a ton to say about artwork.

No, but John Youssi is a pinball art expert. He's the artist for Pats game.

#2800 5 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

No, but John Youssi is a pinball art expert. He's the artist for Pats game.

No shit?!

That's excellent news!

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