I can tell you I am not the biggest JJP pinball fan, and even I am man enough to say I am impressed with the changes they have made to date on this machine and really excited to see the final product. They really listened to the feedback and made more than just a few cosmetic games to this design. Thanks to the Pinside mob, this machine now is much improved over the prototype version. If gameplay checks out and that is a big if, this might be the first JJP machine added in my collection... JJP should be giving out discounts to all of the passionate pinball collectors who complained, offered real suggestions on improvement and saved this title from disaster.

First time playing it and honestly my impression was not the best and I don't think it is something software can fix.

it really just felt barren of anything but a few ramps which are set so far back it's tough to hit all the time. I as well as many other casual players just walked away mid game. this might be one of those players games that you just can't walk up to and play and have fun. where as woz anyone can bat the ball around and make stuff happen and look pretty.

Pop ups will not do anything other than pop up from what I saw. how could they do anything else?

I enjoyed woz but maybe it is just the widebody that makes it feel slow and clunky.

Even saw some of the jjp boys testing out TWD. the comparable in action and on the playfields between the two mfg feels like night and day as far as speed is concerned. ( I never played twd just observed)

lady at jjp booth said they have already sold 1400 games and hope to start production in January.

i love pinball and really hope that jjp can make it thru but it just feels like they either have run out of steam or are gonna just squeak this one out.

ps. any of you fanboys who call me a hater, just shut your trap. this is an honest review from a casual pinball enthusiast

"this is an honest review from a casual pinball enthusiast"

That owns 25 pins?

Can you be a casual enthusiast? I get what he is saying, it isn't fast like Stern games - it is a different animal. Some will like, others won't. To each his own. Software may not be able to 'fix it', but it should be quite a different game when complete than what he played today.

Looks like this is a more slowed down (but has flow) story pin. If I want fast TRON or IM will take care of that fix...

Yeah. I am an operator with a collection of games from our operations. None of which I have setup at my home.

I love pinball. you had to be the first to call me out for something!

Anyhow I just wanted to give you my perspective from someone in the field.

Is that not worth something?

Yes, it is, and I thank you for relaying your thoughts! In fact, I hope to hear many more of both perceived positives and negatives of the game.

Looks to me like this game has a lot to explore and progress though the story. But I bet it takes a rather skilled player to rip through the modes. Casual players will be drawn to the pretty and theme of the pin. Experienced players will stay for the challenge. <Disclaimer: talking out of my a$$, but sounds okay to me...>

Granted, the decapitated head looks a little weird by itself but it's not finished yet and I think the detail in the sculpt thus far is good. If they are able to mechanically bring Smaug to life with talking, lighting effects and movement, I consider it a win (even in its current state) and prefer it over a tail that diverts the ball, or a claw that grabs the ball to lock or some such effect.

They may be more of a step sideways than a step back. I like the idea of playfield artwork that is more like a playfield plastic piece. Artwork printed on the backside of a piece of clear plastic that is then applied to the finished cabinet. Super durable and glossy. Might even be better than direct print.

I'm guessing one of the problems with a direct print cabinet is that all the pieces are printed before the cabinet is assembled. What a nightmare it must be to keep all the pieces undamaged through the assembly process.

The original promotion for WOZ was decals with more colors and higher definition that had previously been done. The direct print cabinets were a pleasant surprise, unfortunately it looks like JJP learned the hard way that they were not production worthy.

I was noticing this as well. I think the troll mechs take up a lot of space where inserts would go. I was also thinking that perhaps there wasn't a good way to use inserts to convey the amount of information 28+ modes might require, so they decided to use the two LCD displays instead and leave the playfield less cluttered and confusing.

Downside is I don't know how they will be able to do the amazing light shows they did with WOZ without all the inserts.

I think there are a lot of toys, just different. 11 directly controlled drop targets, four pop up targets, talking Smaug, 5" LCD and the lock bar button. And, I don't think we've seen everything yet. You could argue that the toys in the Hobbit have more potential to change up the game play than the toys in WOZ.

Cleary, JJP was going for a different type of game play with the Hobbit. We won't know how good it is until we play it. I'm hopeful because JJP has a very experienced team of designers. If they were allowed to make a game that they think is fun chances are good I will think it's fun.

In my opinion, JJP does not need to compete with WOZ. They need to compete with the other manufacturers. If they offer a machine that has more value than the competition for the price, then they've done well. It doesn't need to offer 2x the value to be a success.

WOZ was their flagship model and it needed to be spectacular for them to survive. I wouldn't be surprised if they lost money on it.

Why does a Stern LE command $3000 more than the pro? A fairer comparison would be the Stern LE to the Hobbit. Which is only a $1000 to $1500 difference.

Even so, where is the $4000 in the Hobbit LE versus the Stern TWD Pro? I don't know yet because I haven't seen the finished Hobbit. Though perhaps not $4000 higher, from what has been shown, the BOM is certainly much higher on the Hobbit LE (invisiglass, shaker, 26" LCD, 5" LCD, RGB lighting, back glass, powder coated armor, 11 drop targets, 4 pop up targets, talking and moving Smaug, three flippers, subway, two magnets, all metal ramps and habitrails, widebody, etc...) Actually, that's a pretty impressive list.

Still, the BOM doesn't tell the whole story. The rest of the story is told by the quality and amount of engineering that is put into the game. To me, the additional value is in the depth of code, the sound content, the artwork, LCD effects and lighting. With Keith and Ted on rules, David Theil on sound and JP on LCD animation, I would say the Hobbit has the potential to be an excellent value at $4000 more than the TWD pro.

Edit: Doesn't mean it will meet its potential or that there won't be people who would rather have TWD pro even if they were the same price, regardless of how good the Hobbit turns out.

pinballs are rarely set up well at these shows and even arcades in the past. I won't know till I get it home and mess around with different pitches how the speed of the game really plays, plus lighting and background noise, let me tell you TWD is a much different experience in the home with loud volume and dim lighting. I think it looks great and hopefully gameplay follows.

Wow! Talk about a reality check...

Would you say you're a little T.O.ed because Smaug didn't give you a full body shot?

It is totally worth something. For me, your review actually makes me more excited for the game. I personally find wide body pins more fun. You can take the time to figure out shots, targets and modes. There are so many fast games out there that I enjoy and having a game that is different from the others is fantastic! $.02

Not sure - full body would have been nice. But this isn't bad either. I don't think it is a deal breaker, the talking part was unexpected, so it may grow on me

Wow that was unexpected Matt! Thanks for posting those pics. Very nice work, and I'd have to agree that dark emerald color would probably look best & contrast better against the coins. At least it would match the artwork on the bottom of the playfield. Any ideas for the area by the book?

Casual pinball enthusiast? Is that an oxymoron...<edited>Perhaps a flat out, stone cold dope.

_{Post edited by moderator: personal attack}

Odds are that the programming will be a strength and with the new art package, toys and killer licence, I think it's likely that this will be a strong seller if not a home-run for JJP.

Hopefully they will start pumping out machines soon and build some momentum going into Lawlor's game that should be a major hit.

That's why I asked. Wasn't a "call-out". Just a question.

Hmmm.

As much as I love the new PF art, I'm NOT loving that Smaug.

Granted PART is because the suspense around the reveal built up my expectations so high, but still, its really not awesome to look at....

Need gameplay video and more detail around the Smaug action.

I'm neutral on the book/lcd. While I love the use of the technology, Im thinking its been shoe-horned into the game in a way that doesn't make sense. The crystal ball in Woz made sense- this? Looking forward to being proven wrong when i see it in action, though.

sidenote:
pinside mgmt, PLEASE consider simply disallowing posts for the first 30-days an account has been opened unless they contribute like $20 or something....

Teeth (in the works) and voice may put the Smaug in an acceptable category for most, and very cool for others.

The LCD may look a bit better with clean up as well. Also, something else to add value to the gameplay like instructions and a feeling of progress through the story/modes... like when you complete the mode the book has some cool effect of turning a page or something similar.

WTF a PLAYFIELD video?

Ok there has to be a reason no videos of gameplay were posted today, are videos currently banned in the booth?

Your honest perspective is appreciated, thanks for giving it.

One thing I've learned though is to not put too much stock in initial impressions on prototype machines at shows. They are often too flat which makes for slow game play.

As you mention, the open playfield on a wide body machine is a concern. I count nearly 15 shots from either flipper, including drops and pop-ups, so there is plenty to shoot at, but will it be fun?

One thing that could be done to the gold smaug that would make him even more special/unique is to make the gold pile under his chin his neck/upper body area.

EDIT: come to think of it, perhaps doing it for the red version would be good too. It would enhance the Smaug body sculpt in size, and reduce the number of coins in the back area a bit.

the playfield art is drastically improved. Good work. Don't know if I like the gold coin version of Smaug. It would be nice to have the gold coins around his base and some on him, but the red version hidden in the gold coins. Not make him solid gold like he currently is. Nice to see improvements all around. will they be able to compete with the Big labowski quality? We will see.

Agree. The brown looks more like sand than stone. Greenish grey would probably look better, and ties it in with the PF art at the bottom flippers.

I like all the changes I've seen so far, glad I got in on pre-order spot when everyone else was jumping ship. I'm excited and hope it comes out in reasonable time frame more than anything.

We haven't seen any of new red dragon yet now just gold one right? Or did I miss a picture? Any chance we can have the gold smaug but have the regular LE machine? Are they easily interchangeable?

I don't agree with his opinions, but feel he should be able to express them without being called a name.

Thrilled everyone is loving the new PF and all the improvements...

PinballSTAR Amusements is ready to take orders on the Hobbit... We have a nice allotment still available of LEs and Smaugs... Give us a shout for your best pricing on an Hobbit LE or Smaug Gold SE... We are still selling from our early purchase allotment...

Email - [email protected]
Call 570-357-0042

Check out our Facebook page for frequent updates to the Hobbit...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/PinballSTAR-Amusements/281515171950637

Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements
Authorized Jersey Jack Pinball Distributor

Can someone get some close ups of the powdercoat tomorrow? Not sure if I saw any good pics of that yet. I'm sure pics can't do it justice, but would like to see anyway.

Regarding the laser cutting on the ramps. Not sure I like the text/instructions on that. How about laser-cutting DWARF runes on the right ramp that leads to the treasure room? Perhaps have it spell the same runes that are on the Erebor key "Durin Heir". And on the left ramp going to the book and bumpers have ELVISH runes that say "Rivendell", "Thranduil", "Mirkwood", or "Orcrist"?

JJP: This may help if you decide to go this route:
http://derhobbit-film.de/rune/runes.php?fsize=100&write=000000&back=ffffff&font=0&text=durin%20heir

http://derhobbit-film.de/rune/runes.php?fsize=100&write=000000&back=ffffff&font=2&text=rivendell

http://derhobbit-film.de/rune_generator.shtml#rune

And led lighting below would still be good to make them shine/glow. Everyone likes glowing runes and you have the LED book to tell people what ramp to shoot. Put cool Hobbit stuff on those ramps!

Great idea except very few of us are fluent in nerd

Seriously though, that would look sweet but nobody would be able to understand it.

Nicest thing I can say about TH: I don't think it's going to play like anything else before it.

I am really intrigued by its balance of flow and shoot.

CraZ4pin you have to seek professional help.

Chicken, hiding behind a new account, grow up and grow a pair!

We thought about it for like 5 minutes, then decided we'd rather have useful pinball stuff than unintelligible runespeak. We even had the 4 words translated to Dwarvish but it just looked bad and ultimately to the general population it's useless. There's lots of other Dwarvish scattered around, though. Just not in prime lit-up real estate.

Alex, I really welcome you giving new info or your views about the game, but being 'someone involved', please leave the 'he's a troll', 'it must bu Craz4Pin', or responding to what you think is 'nonsense', etc.. to other posters please. I don't say you don't have the right to respond (obviously you do), but I do think it does harm your image/credibility.
As said: I normally really like reading your posts, but everytime you do something like above I wonder 'why?'

Much improved, much better art.

But, but, while it's still proto - the gold smaug kind of looks like it popped out of an Xmas cracker. It looks cheap, tacky, gaudy.

Get one of those guys who paints warhammer to shade and texture it and it will look a million times better

This is meant as constructive criticism as changes are still being made it seems.

DSC00144.jpg

04-red-dragon.jpg

I have the same opinion. Don't talk like this. Talk about the pinball. And have à nice discusion.

I love the new playfield art and apron. Only got one point I would like to give feedback on:

- Why are the lower trapdoors not colored in the same color scheme (red\yellow\brown\orange) as the top trap doors that match the surrounding colors?

I don't have any skin in the game, but I see the new stuff a CLEAR improvement. The expo game looked really, really amateur for such a professional outfit. Nice new direction, JJP.

Must be joe Balcer lol

I like how it is now, it gives direction to the shots.

ill post video today
JT

How is that new shot/feed to/from the pops going to play into it?

Is there going to be a rollover there or are those optos there?

Also, I noticed in this picture that the left ramp is curved more than the right, which I'm assuming is to create better geometry so you can make the ramp from the upper right flipper. That's nice! I was thinking about a WOZ, but now I might hold out and see how this all turns out!

Playfield art much improved. Vuks better. Concentrate on smaug, still not close to being "right".

Still lacking a good PR person.

I think some folks including myself have a natural bias against a pinball machine that costs $8000+. Part of it is related to the fact that some can write a check for the full amount which creates envy and part of it feels like this encourages the NIB price point to continue to rise. This creates some anger which some folks put onto JJP/TH. I was quoted $4600 from a distributor for a NIB ST Pro in the Summer and a couple of weeks ago $4800. It seems like the entry level price for NIB will be >$5000 in 2015 and I'm not sure how that is good for pinball.

An "idea" whether its good or bad is for JJP to look at a Pro model for WOZ/TH with a price point of <$5000. In the meantime I will keep telling myself an <$5000 Stern Pro is more "fun" then a $8000+ TH even if im in denial.

Your just financially responsible nothing wrong with that. Finding a location that the game is close to your house and spending $20 to play it for a few hrs is cheaper then owning one. But there will alway be a group of people who can and will pay rising costs. Inflation no matter what causes it to happen is part of life. The prices will go down when no one wants them anymore, by then neither will u.. Is what it is.

Yep - it's "The Craz4pin Quote Generator" live at work.

The reasoning I got straight from Jack was different, it's not principally risk reward, but rather the novice player. "We tried the “action” buttons and nobody used them - or knew what they were."

I say let them learn by having controls in parallel. I trust pinball players to improve, I've seen many do it in a single game.

Looking at it as a risk/reward maneuver seems silly to me, somewhat like patting my head and rubbing my stomach at the same time. Can I do it, yes. Do I want to do it while I intensely play pinball? I don't get the appeal, I'm trying to play pinball, not Simon.

I respectfully disagree with Keith, that said, it's his game to design. I just don't think a player controlled diverter can improve game flow if one has to do acrobatics to activate it..

Also, I'm still looking for the reasons to stay in. What was changed was a VERY good effort for the time in which it was done, I fully applaud it, but I'm still not completely WOW'd, and I need to be for 7500(+400 extra in decal upgrades). I'm desperately worried about gameplay with all the drops and all the wide open long shots in the widebody form factor. In the Expo videos, it somewhat reminded me of some of the early SS widebodies with lots of drops and super long shots. Will it play differently (faster) than the Expo videos, I sure hope so. Still waiting on good video from IAAPA before I have to decide.