It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

AC/DC is a mess aesthetically and in terms of attention to detail, but it seems to have fared very well in the marketplace as the playfield design and rules carried the day.

With that said, hopefully, Smaug looks incredible.

Probably need to see the complete game soon......I remember how many said "don't put the Ruby Slippers on my game"....everyone wanted them.

This is why "others" release nothing and you see the whole thing. So a decal would have been better? I think these are less than small and had to have Warner Brothers input, direction and approval, which they have!

So, next game is unlicensed, Thank Goodness!

"I've seen Smaug and he looks Great" - me. I did not realize how fugly that MM Troll was until I just looked at it blown up now.

Who knows, like the "Clown Wig" - never say never.....stay tuned. My money is on Matt.

Wow. You sure went out of your way to put an awful lot of words in my mouth.

My money is on Matt
Literally lol

Bring on the completed hobbit!!!!!!!!

I don't think people would prefer decals. I think they would prefer a more experienced artist when creating characters in particular. Getting emotion in a character's face/expression is an art form all its own. Perhaps JJP will consider trying someone else for future games? I know there are likely a dozen other parts of a game Matt's talents could be utilized for. I know a lot of people were hoping to see more 3D landscape pieces to decorate the playfield (like mountains for example) and I know Matt is good at making stuff like that.

I agree with DCFAN, LED eyes will be a big help - even if it is an aftermarket mod.

Like was done for the trees on WOZ? Didn't happen. I saw one person who did it (and it took them a long time.) The problem with these pieces is that they are solid pieces and drilling is a very tricky thing that most people will not dare attempt on their own (not a simple mod at all.)

I was in on WOZ early and am definitely pro JJP and I have to agree with many of the above posts. Wolf and Spider are okay, the other two not so good.

I will reserve judgement until the final game is revealed but it does make you wonder if someone actually looked at those and said "looks great", if it was a case of "good enough" or they just didn't want to hurt feelings.

Perhaps it's not too late to change. Anyone else watch Face Off? It's amazing the quality and speed of their sculpts.

Again, we are not the final say, Warner Brothers is. They looked at them, studied them, asked for a color change or two and then they lovingly APPROVED them. they own the license, not us. This is what they like....

Lol...more experienced. Matt works hard and has plenty of talent... Start ur own company and then go pay the paycheck of that more experienced artist if u can afford him then hope he works a quarter of the hours Matt puts in to his craft... Seriously unreal

I'm sorry I did not know how to say it any nicer. I know Matt has worked with materials and modeling for a long time and he has many talents. However, I have never seen a good example of a character (whose face/expression you could see) that made me say WOW! Let's hope Smaug is it.

PS - Stern seems to have managed just fine with the reputable artist they just found to make the toys in TWD (and those zombie heads appear to be roughly the same size as these bash toys?)

Well, I don't know what to say about that.

Normally, I try to adhere to the tenet, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

But, since JJP has been receptive to input and occasionally makes changes, it makes it seem like providing an honest opinion (positive or negative) in a respectful way is better than being silent.

By the way, the pop bumper caps look great.

I actually think 3 of the 4 look good, and even though the last one doesn't look very good, still very excited about the pin!

That Orc closely resembles a blind date I once had. Whenever you hear "she has a great personality" be very wary boys. I'm in on TH and those molds are disappointing at best. I hope it's not a harbinger of what to expect with Smaug. The dragon better marvel us all.

Simply not good enough. Why weren't moulds made of an existing toy? Warner bros would have 3d images files of the characters, why weren t they used to make cnc models? Quicker easier and look a hell of a lot nicer.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Remember, nobody on Pinside knows more about powdercoating than........ never mind.

I am actually more anxious, nervous, about Smaug than when I am waiting on my accountants to give me my tax returns

This comes closest to my own reaction.

1 is a half decent Warg
2 is a pretty nifty looking Spider.
I'm fine with those.

I really couldn't tell what I was looking at for 3 and 4.
3 especially has a really odd mouth expression that makes me think it looks more like some undead zombie than a Tolkien character. This one in my opinion bothers me the most. It doesn't look like any Orc I recognize.
4 may look like something from the movie as has been show, a goblin I guess. It's just passable, and my brain didn't instantly recognize it.

I'll hold judgement until I see Smaug..

I only post in the spirit of constructive criticism. Hopefully like changes to the playfield, JJP will take feedback.

Disclaimer: I've got a game on order. I expect I'll love it. I'm a JJP supporter.

Looking at the Warg more ... it looks like his snout would almost sit flush with the playfield? I wonder if that could possibly cause some airballs?

sorry, because that's all they had... give them more choices and i'd bet they won't go with this one.
man, i can't wait to see what smaug will look like.

sorry double post.

Can someone please post what #3 is supposed to look like?

thanks,
mof

http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/9/8054/vlcsnap-2013-01-04-23h16m54s177.png

Can't wait to see this game all together! Once everything is in context and on the playfield I am sure it will all come together.

Ok, I can see the resemblance now. I guess the feral cat needs the most work afterall.

Perhaps he needs to keep the heads "round" like in the peanuts cartoon to give the ball something to interact with?
Perhaps he can't make a sharp beak if it's just going to break off?

-mof

sidebyside.png

Sorry to hear that a lot of u do not like the faces. Mainly based towards the Orc and Goblin. They are both sculpted off of a single picture sent to me by WB. I made different ones that I personally like better but was asked to change them and was given exact changes that WB wanted to the Orc and Goblin. Once the changes where made to what WB wanted it was approved it. As stated by Jack "WB has the final say", I don't always agree with it but I do what I am asked.

A good thing to keep in mind is that fact that these are small, just like the troll head they do look different/better in the game rather then flat out on a white background. People will see them soon in the game and I feel that might change some opinions on it.

As to the detail and the over all look, again we did have to make them according to what WB was looking to see in the characters but there are several mechanical reasons why they look the way they do. For instance the Orc would not have ears on his head at the depth he is made. In real live that character would have ears on the side of his temple. But if u remove the ears he looks like mr potato head minus ears So u have to make changes that work in one way but not another. Also there are exact sizes that need to be there in height and width, this again plays with the shape of the face (to some degree) and then there is a mech that goes inside it, this of course means room needs to be added under the head. All these this add up to making the face not look exactly as it would if I was told "hears a face sculpt what u see exactly but only make it an inch tall"

There are lots of things that go into making a toy and making it an interactive toy. Even the front of the face had to be watch as to how far out features stick out like noses, teeth, chins and so on. The Warg was a challenge to make something that sticks out so far work with the game and not interfere in a negative way with the ball. Not to mention keeping the faces more on the flat side mattered more in Hobbit then MM as 2 of the faces are wayyyyy closer then the trolls and take a harder hit. The Warg really had no choice, and needed to stick out that far to even look correct, which is IMO why he looks the best. But the others we had to play with some to make sure there wouldn't be any problems.

These are some of the things that go into making these faces, not a simple as sculpt a awesome face and just pop it in and hit it with a ball. Lots of things affect how that piece will look. The witch even has a long story to it and why it looks that way (but that's for another day).

Oh and that clown wig from WOZ was never going in the game it was a quick vac form I did over a block of clay and letters to get spacing for the light board. Just a mock up

On another note Smaug is looking really amazing. I am super proud of him and all the detail he has in the face. I really feel very confident that when everyone sees him they will be happy.

great to hear your take on Smaug! Thanks for sharing!

Matt, THAT was the best update so far. And you saved my night sleep!

Classy response by Matt in the face of that shite storm of criticism. Thanks for your input Matt.

The more I look at them the better I like them. The Sam Adams may have something to do with that, but I don't think so.

That works as I like to have a beer while I play pinball, poker, watch football, play darts, ....

Beelzeboob is working his ass off to pay for his pins. I'm glad you're independently well-off. So...my opinion since you asked, and since I've always been honest with myself and others:

I'm with the others. First two, great. Last two, not so much. But I fully accept Matt's and Jack's explanation, and I'm still getting a Hobbit...even if Smaug looks as much like a dragon as Toto looked like a dog. (I still say that's a squirrel.)

It's gotta be a bitch doing stuff under the watchful gaze of Warner Brothers. Keep up the great work, Matt!

Perhaps we could get those after release as mods?

Well this is no slam on Matt because he does great work. Sometimes it just doesn't work and this is one of them.

I don't really care what Warner Bros. thinks, because they don't know shit, don't care about a pinball machine, get real, and we are the ones buying these pins. I don't care what they like. Sorry, but its true.

That said, I could care less about what these cats or dogs look like, the limited game play video doesn't seem to do it justice or make me want to continue on with my pre order.

As a Woz pin apologist for years and subsequent lover of the pin, this video is a negative for me.

I'm in for TWD and am leaning towards being out on this one now. Can't have them all!

Is it possible to even just put a coat of clear lacquer or something on these toys? They don't have a shine/polish to them at all which leaves the colors looking really flat (and reduces detail). I don't think they'll reflect the light from the game very nicely (nor did the trees or State Fair balloon for that matter.) Just curious.

Well my opinion doesn't mean much on these because I'm not in on TH. That has nothing to do with JJP, it is totally the fact that I couldn't even make it through the first movie. As much as I love the LOTR movies, is as much as I hated the first TH movie. So with this theme I get to sit back and watch. And even though I don't care for the theme, I can't wait to play it.

Of course, seeing you asked, I think everyone is being a bit harsh about them. They are not as bad as everyone is saying. If they were first shown in the game instead of sitting alone I don't think they would have recieved the same reaction.

As for your reaction, it is pretty much what I thought it would be. And call me a pessimist, but I'm guessing that no matter what Smaug looks like, you won't like that either. But that is just a wild guess.

Me and that's a fact. Smartass name dropper

And gee, based on your response to these 4 pop-ups I'm guessing you'll think Smaug was done by Michelangelo no matter what.

At this point I will absolutely not be buying a Hobbit (NIB anyway). The direct-print cabinet was the nicest "quality" feature of WOZ that I loved and that seems to be gone now (most of the toys were a major letdown). An LCD is nice ... but great looking and fun toys are better. Especially when you're paying 8K+ for a game.

A couple legit updates! Yay!

I was underwhelmed with the PF art when first show, but I admit I knew next to nothing about the approval process and how little creative latitude it sounds like JJP has/had.

Frankly, my interest in TH pinball has been waning already based on the mediocre 2nd film... if the 3rd is more of the same, well, then, meh....who knows.

On the flip side, this makes me even more excited to see an original themed game from my all-time favorite pinball designer....

I have been very quiet but all I can say is that I hope SMAUG is AMAZING, because they have hyped him up to do so much and be very interactive; if he is not a lot of people will be let down. Matt is a good guy and I am sure he is somewhat limited buy WB; have to see the heads in real life before you can judge them
my 2 cents

Wow. These are terrible.

I am a prop master in the film industry and I have to say if one of the artists on a show showed me something like this made out of sculpey or the like, for anything remotely close to camera I would seriously reconsider using the person again.

What I said:

What you are pretending I said:

I don't know how you take "I think everyone is being a bit harsh" to mean I think any part of the game will be sculpted by Michelangelo. Like I said, I get to sit back on this one and take it as the whole once I see the entire game. Hey, you do to. Seeing you're not in on the game either, you can sit back and relax... can't you?

Didn't you already sell your Hobbit spot to someone else?

Great looking toys are nice but I'll take good looking toys that actually move over stationary ones any day. Especially when you're paying $8k+ for a game. Pop ups move with character models and interact with the ball. A toy like the crystal ball has things you can actually look at on the playfield to shoot for as well as mode information. Innovative features like mini outlane games increase the fun factor of games. Mini playfields with a door to bash down, loop shots, a spinning house with feet that kick out, a toy that brings the ball up to a mini playfield that has targets to shoot at are far more fun in my book then a nice looking toy that does nothing in terms of gameplay. We have heard strong rumors about The Hobbit having a 5" LCD somewhere as well as an interactive map on the apron. Both of those toys (features if you want to call them even) somehow interact with the player whereas a stationary toy does not.

Don't get me wrong its nice to have highly detailed stationary toys but at the end of the day I'm buying a pinball machine because I want things that the ball or I visually can interact with. As a player and pinball owner a 26" LCD with mode information and cool animations offers much more value and fun then a toy that doesn't move at all...

Would MM owners want a more detailed but less interactive castle? It could be the best looking miniature castle in the world but that doesn't help much in a pin. The same goes for Smaug. As long as it looks good but is interactive people will be happy as they are buying a pinball machine to play pinball.

I'm very relaxed! Laughing and drinking wine.

That explains a lot.

Wow...this is going to be an awesome game, and people are focusing in on two faces.

Let's pick apart TWD like this - you'd think by the way people talk that it shits roses, but nobody's played that game yet, either.

I still think JJP needs to stop with the piecemeal updates and just release the whole machine like Stern does. Look at the whole package rather than just one square inch at a time.

Woah .. you're all over the place on this one. Yes, I traded my original Hobbit pre-order to TaTa. I later put a down payment back down .... only to yank it a month+ ago because of the complete lack of game details. Now I'm actually rather glad I got the refund.

Your crystal ball (when it's working) is telling you what to shoot at on the playfield? Huh?

Yes, a variety of shots, flow, and other features are very nice in a game too! But when your primary toys in the game are unrecognizable, ugly, and boring ... that's not fun. And why are you talking about "stationary" toys?? Who said anything about stationary? Stern has tons of great examples of detailed toys interacting on the playfield. One of my personal favorites is the pirate ship on POTC. Not sure where you're going with this one. In your opinion it's okay that pop-ups look ridiculous because ... well, they "pop up"? Okay, to each his own.

Once these small figures are integrated into the whole pf, they will look just fine. You have to accept Matt's explanation of how they were finally approved but prior to his post, it was a letdown for me.
Plus KJ can make a slab of plywood with flippers a fun game, so not too worried.
But, much hinges on how well Smaug turns out. Too much riding on that figure for it to be an average sculpture.
Again, lots of confidence in the jjp team.

It's always three months away.

Looking forward to it. I'm not a big fan of the figures, they don't match my vision in my head of what they would be, but as I said they're not deal breakers, and I appreciate your explanation. If you nail Smaug I'll be the first person to admit it.

I know you're talented and work hard, and we vaguely met last year at Expo, when you were working your booth. You seem like a solid guy. I hope you don't take my honest opinions personally, but my experience with the playfield reveal was that speaking up got results. I wouldn't want to hide what I really think, because it might improve the end product (playfield fixes really helped it).

Sculpting faces is a specialized skill, not an easy thing.