I've been stopping by Pelham once a week for a while looking for new additions.

Nice I'll be able to play Hobbit this weekend, or get in line anyway!

Sarah noted she was in for GoT Pro; maybe she backed out? - should have been there by now, it seems. Looking to play the Pro to compare to my Premium.

You are correct, I was remembering immaculately. Here is the exerpt from the newsletter on the topic:

We have had many inquires about purchasing a second Smaug™ Toy so the customer has both Smaug™ colors if they wish to interchange them in the future. If you would like to do this, the 2nd Smaug™ Toy will ship with your game for an additional $200, but will NOT be installed. This applies to both LE buyers and Smaug™ Gold Buyers, both have to option to purchase the additional colored Smaug™ Toy. If ordered directly through JJP, please email [email protected] to purchase. If ordered through a distributor, please contact them to order.

I apologize for the misinformation.

I wish I had an immaculate memory.

Lol, I've seen (and been guilty of) many worse auto corrects. Like when I accidentally told my old boss "I love you" because I hit space bar three times and my keyboard automatically entered the next three words it felt was appropriate for the conversation.

Was that the beginning of a beautiful friendship?

For a steady lucrative pinball finance plan...I'll do anything you want

Played Hobbit for the first time today at Flippers. First game I got GC!!.....This gameplay really surprised me.....not floaty at all......fast and fun......just wish I had a clue what I was supposed to do!

20160317_143705_(resized).jpg

Uhh...keep the ball in play and shoot the lit shots. That's what I do.

Coming around the NEPL season finals and it's a Premium. She is also getting a Ghostbusters but that may not come in time with the impending situation with the landlord.

Anyone in the Pacific Northwest due to get one? Saaaay, somewhere near Portland?

. . . Please say yes . . .

Worst part was it was a female, that really raised the awkward level lol.

Nice score! Don't think I've personally seen anyone break a mil yet.

Whoa. What's the situation with the landlord? I hope PW isn't struggling. It really is a great arcade.

Whopee! I'll be at Flippers tomorrow - thanks for the heads up!

nice!

My all-time favorite place for pinball...."Wish it were closer!"

I think you've figured it out already.

1. light locks and shoot right ramp
2. shoot right ramp to lock balls, start modes, and start multiballs
3. shoot pop up orcs and spiders. Eventually you'll start/stack another multiball doing this.

That's it. The game is kind of neat but it needs help...big help...in the software department. Right now, there's nothing exciting about it. It's all about shooting the right ramp, which you can do from either flipper, and keeping the ball in play is very easy. The real problem is that there's no progressive, exciting scoring. There's no all or nothing, risk/reward shots. There's nothing to build toward, no exciting huge shots. The modes all score the same, and there's no particular reason to chase mode points once you've started them because you are better off just working toward and multiball.

To do well, just keep the ball in play which isn't difficult.

People putting up huge scores on this thing their first game isn't going to be a rare occurrence.

Me too! Can pu on Monday! But, supposed to get 6"+ snow in N NJ.

From watching videos of the machine, I have to agree with you. The code looks very boring at the moment. From what I can gleam, you hit the nail on the head. The code is certainly not at the point the flyer states "Unprecedented multi-layer risk/reward system".

It's Keith though, so I am sure good things are coming. Hopefully it is coming sooner rather than later!!

And before anyone bashes me, I am in on the Hobbit, so I am not trying to be a downer, just realistic.

Had the chance to play it again last night and was feeling the same away regarding the code....

I also noticed the Smaug dialogue was pretty repetitive (I missed that the first time i played due to some technical glitches with the game)

It's too bad they didn't have an extra year and a half (while they reworked the art) to advance the software...

oh.... wait....

It's a bit ironic given the previous bashing on Stern pushing games out with incomplete code....

Somehow, its considered a positive with TH because it gets the game out sooner? hmmm.

Its amazing what JJP did with WoZ code, so clearly they have the capability to create DEEP code. Just scratching my head on why its at 0.5 level at launch?

You just summed up every single pinball machine ever made. I could make Tron sound boring the same way (I love Tron!).

Shoot the lit shot.
Keep the ball in play.
Don't chase the mode points, just get through them. Play long enough and you get to SOS, the boring mini wizard mode where you have to do all the same stuff over again if you missed.
Finally if you get the wizard mode by keeping it play long enough, you have to do all the same stuff over again (ho hum). And all accompanied from sounds of the movie (which wasn't that great).

So I disagree, because I found the modes to be a lot of fun in TH. Any game can be described boring.

Time will tell, but I would be surprised if Keith didn't give us a nuanced ruleset that made the modes worth playing.

LOTR has this and it doesn't seem likely that Keith would take a step backwards when showing what a mode based game should be (to paraphrase him).

Hobbit is a very impressive machine all around. The LCD, the art, sounds, lights, etc. are pretty much unparalleled. I really think it is an engineering marvel and technically superior to anything else out there not named P3. The game is lacking however in it's intuitiveness. I play a lot of pinball but find myself lost in trying to play it. Basically I try to roll over the lock shots and start multiball and hit the pop up targets which eventually start another multiball. I don't really understand how you control which modes are started or how anything stacks. When a mode starts I check out the screen for what I'm supposed to hit but beyond that I'm lost.... I feel like with a bunch more plays or if I owned the game at home I could start figuring this stuff out but for someone just coming in off the street the game's rule-set has such a huge learning curve. I think the large display is great for spectators but it's a hindrance when your playing. DMD's are nice because I can glance up and I know exactly where to look to find the info I need. On a big LCD I have to train myself to look at different areas to find what I'm looking for. If I want to see what the lockdown button is currently active for I have to know to look towards a certain section on the screen. For modes you have to look at a big map area. It's also tough to see what your shots score because that info isn't really in your periphery while you're playing.-it's too high on the screen. I'm sure with more plays I could train myself to get used to these differences and figure out the game but I feel like you need to play it a bunch to really know what your doing. I'm looking forward to playing it more and I'm sure for home buyers this stuff won't be an issue but in the dozen or so plays I've put on it so far I don't really have a positive feeling on the gameplay and software side of things. Hoping this changes with time!

The modes are fun. But, the left ramp doesn't seem to play a big role in the game. And the best strategy and easiest way to play the game now is as described, lock balls + hit pop ups. JJP needs to find a way to mesh all the rules together well.

A lot of call outs and sounds are needed too. Hit the captive ball and nothing happens. Left ramp has very little meaning to the code. And what's going on with the map to eredor? I know the spinners increase progress, so I'm sure there's something fun and lucrative going on there.

Overall, I'm sure Keefer and the crew have a lot of plans and ideas but the fact that the code is still beta after all these years should be a concern.

All good points. If you want to know what to shoot in a mode, look at bilbos book. Clear as day (ie shoot pops, shoot spider, shoot left ramp, etc...). Great game, but yea, the overall rules seem scattered and missing the Keefer synergy.

I think the concerns for the "slow" progress of the code can be addressed by taking into account the fact that the basic operating system is still being tweaked as this is only the second machine. Furthermore, JJP machines are very, very, multimedia intensive, so I suspect that it involves more to tweak/adjust the rules and coordinate the light/sound/video/smaughead show with those "tweaks."

Look at WOZ code. The latest version wasn't just tweaking points. There were real changes to the light show/sound cues/video cues that coordinated with teaching/leading the player towards proper game strategy.

Given Keith's history of working and reworking the code, and the word that, what, only 10% of Smaug speech is done (can I get a confirm... I can't remember the exact number floated around), I have NO doubt it gets much better and better. Then better still.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

I think the biggest thing about the left ramp (at least right now) is that it adds time when in a timed mode. It also changes the mode when not in a mode.

Reminds me a little of TSPP where a lot of the fun (and points) revolve around not letting the timer run out.

I lived through umpteen woz codes since I first got the game. With each new update, the game got geometrically better. So in that respect, I'm sure Keith and team have much more to offer. I too am concerned that the code is not further along. But what goes into programing and the minds of these guys, one can only guess. There seems to be so many assets like Smaugs speech recordings and the 31 modes Keith has spoken of, so not worried the gameplay and rule set will pull it all together. It will once again be fun to own the game and watch it develope with each update.

I wsa very disappointed in WoZ when I was one of the first recipients and sold it a week later. HATED the callouts and gameplay rules it was sent with. Sold it within a week. I won't make that mistake again.

Ouch....live and learn. It really did come together over the past few years. So, it will be interesting to play and watch TH grow.

I get that (The book) and the rules seem straight forward and rather simplistic about what to hit (left ramp, orbits, spider, etc.) The book is a massive improvement over the Crystal ball in WOZ btw.... The modes rather just seem kind of flat and anti-climactic. Maybe it's because a lot of the sound effects and visual queues aren't there? I think I also have a hard time just wrapping my mind around so many different modes that I have a hard time seeing how everything fits together? I don't really have a clear strategy around how to make the modes more lucrative. I know in Keefer's past games like LOTR I always knew the strategy about which modes to start and when as well as which modes to stack with multiball. In Hobbit I honestly have no idea. I also don't know what anything is worth while I'm shooting during modes because that info isn't in my peripheral vision while playing. If I score decent points while playing I'm unsure of how I actually accumulated those points.

It's kind of funny that I played a production Hobbit and a production Full Throttle for the first time on the same night and within a couple games on FT I already understood 90% of the rule-set and kept wanting to play more games because of the addictive gameplay. Hobbit was far more frustrating because It is so hard to figure everything out in comparison. Felt far more like work playing and wasn't as enjoyable. I'm sure as you figure out the rule-set and become more accustomed to it Hobbit would be more fun as these strategies become more apparent and you get more engrossed in the theme but it has just taken me a lot longer to warm up to the game because it isn't as intuitive.

I thought this was helpful in understanding the ruleset.

https://images.pinside.com/3/bc/e6/3bce6135f19db7beefd686212e40f6b7a3180be9.pdf

Any game can be described as looking like a camel. Doesn't make it true. That's pretty ridiculous to suggest that you can break any game down to 1-2-3 like I did. You can't.

I'm not bashing the game. I have no agenda. But I've played 4 or 5 hours on it, I get big scores, and I've developed an informed opinion. I really don't see how you can compare it Tron, where multiballs all have distinct rules and combos, distinct ways of starting them and cashing out during them, and the modes ARE not to be ignored unless you have no desire to cash in during sea of simulation. I wouldn't describe Tron as incredibly deep but It has a lot going in and you most certainly need to learn this stuff to get the big scores.

Hobbit as it stands has nowhere near that kind if depth. Getting big scores really is as simple as I broke it down as.

That's not to say it will stay that way but that is the game in it's current form. The software simply hasn't come together yet in an engaging way. Yet.

Thanks. I've seen that diagram before but didn't really get a chance to study before playing. That does help everything make more sense though.

Did you know all these things after your first 10 games on LOTR?

I don't own Tron and have only played it at friends' houses and on location. I don't know any of the distinct rules or combos or ways of cashing them out. I also don't know how the modes help you during sea of simulation. Nor have I noticed the game guiding me through audio or visual cues to figure these things out.

Some games are more approachable than others but I think it just takes time to learn the nuances of a ruleset. The deeper the game the longer it takes. Some games may require reading a rule sheet to get a complete understanding.

Understanding the rules doesn't mean I will like them. But in general, the better I understand the rules, the more enjoyable the game is to play.

But I just did it, to Tron. One of my personal favorite games.

I agree with you, Hobbit needs some work. The modes did seem to all have linear scoring and need more to make them stand out. But scoring aside, I found them fun to try to complete. So the bones are there.

I think I knew the basic strategy on LOTR within 10 plays. I knew that POTD qualified ROTK MB, that the keep letters and sword ramp qualified TT MB, and that Fellowship was started by collecting characters on the playfield. i also knew the basic strategy of how to start modes at the ring and to always carry a mode into a multiball. Sure it took a while to develop the finer points of the rule-set but I at least had a general understanding within 10 games. I'm nearly positive I reached DTR within my first 10 plays on LOTR with my friend (who owned the game) coaching me along.

No, but it *only* took Michelangelo 4 years to do the Sistine Chapel.... Surely JJP can beat THAT!

Yes you just did it. You very poorly broke Tron down to three simple steps, enough to perhaps allow a newbie with skills to beat a mediocre player while leaving tons of meat on the bone.

I was able to break down hobbit to three simple steps that accurately define the whole game, and create a strategy any decent player can use to get a very good score on their first game.

Regardless, I think we are in agreement that as it sits now, hobbit has a way to go. I'm looking forward to playing it in 2 or 3 years.

I have an order for a TH SMLE and after watching the "The Hobbit Pinball! @ Bradish Street Pinball Parlor" Twitch feed, I have very little interest in keeping the order. This is coming from a huge Tolkien and LOTR/Hobbit fan with a room full of posters, statues, and other memorabilia. I have been patient and understanding and I know the code will eventually get better but watching that 3 hour video just didn't do anything for me. I was really looking forward to TH being in my collection and having my first "next generation" pin from JJP sitting proudly amongst my B/W, Stern and soon to be Heighway but I just don't think it will be the case.

I really hope it doesn't take that long for compelling code to be released I am going to try and be optimistic that a lot more is already completed behind the scenes and hasn't been released yet. I'll probably be let down, but one can dream...

Ah, you had a friend coaching you along. That makes a huge difference. Though I think LOTR does a masterful job of guiding a player along with it's audio and visual cues. If Hobbit ends up doing as well I would be thrilled.

I played it last week with a 'go or no go' decision to make. I ordered it in 2014, but knew all along I would play it as soon as I could and then keep or cancel my order. I am keeping mine. I like where it is heading - there is more great code releases I am sure. I have no problems keeping this one on order.

By the way: It is more fun to play than to watch someone stream it on Twitch. It is fun to play

Funny how different perceptions can be. I saw the Midwest Launch Party stream and came away with a very different opinion.

I thought the game was beautiful, looked fast with lot's of shots, and had nice video, sound and light integration. I liked the variety of skill shots and the talking Smaug. It also seemed challenging as people were not having overly long ball times.

I see the potential for a great game.

I also see the potential for a grinding, chopping wood game.

I certainly couldn't make the call right now. But then, I like mode based games.

Do you remember how quickly code updates were released when WOZ first hit the streets?

Me too. And Keith will do it right. Version at work is .81 - TONS more to come.
For all we know radically advanced code is done already, but .81 was the most stable to get new games out the door and watch for potential problems.
I'm sure by summer stuff will be developing quickly. Whats a few more months after waiting 40??

Good point. I forget that code is only at .81 release. WOZ code wasn't great starting out but turned out amazing! I'm sure Hobbit will be as well with Keefer on it.

Now that they are building and shipping hobbits, my main concern is out the window. Code releases from Keith will be good and will happen. So I am ready to get the machine and update my hobbit code frequently and enjoying it even more. It will be like getting a new machine every few months