(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update

By B9

7 years ago


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There are 10044 posts in this topic. You are on page 161 of 201.
#8001 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

But seriously, Stern is gonna upstage TH with GOT and snipe away tons of current and future sales.

Only if it has the LCD display. Absent the LCD display I don't think GoT will have that big of impact on TH.

If GoT is LCD and beats TH to market...

-12
#8002 5 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Oh you mean don't pre-order and give him new money so we can get it in front of everyone that pre-ordered? I've debated it, sitting in line waiting is getting really old. Kind of a joke at this point.

It's vaporware until it isn't and you guys with pre-order ants in your pants not only deserve your disappointment, but you are 100% responsible for the perpetual delays. After all, you provided the cash flow that allows JJP to run wild with excuses while dowsing the fire that rightfully belongs under Jack's ass.

BTW, I'm looking at buying a HUO WOZ for 5 grand locally and the guy is begging so hard that I think I can get it for 4 right after Christmas if I am as patient as you pre-buyers (or unsecured VC's as the case seems to be).

-3
#8003 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Only if it has the LCD display. Absent the LCD display I don't think GoT will have that big of impact on TH.
If GoT is LCD and beats TH to market...

The LCD is and has been a game changer. Dots and Dmd's suck.

If GOT doesn't have the LCD I wouldn't even consider it.

I love TWD pin and just dream about an LCD. It's a great pin, my favorite, but the Dmd blows. My RS is 10x better

#8004 5 years ago

I am sure GOT will have a better layout than hobbit. Also will most likely have a 3rd flipper with an actual target made for the 3rd flipper.

#8005 5 years ago

Third flipper is the Smaug kill shot.

#8006 5 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Just stumbled on this Hobbit gameplay video - it is some of the best I have seen. Just passing it along.

This is a good view of the game to study how the ball moves. Only downside is, I couldn't see how much nudging is part of the game.

1. ramps look smooth and fast
2. pops seem to RARELY fire the ball out quickly at the flippers - bummer.
3. 3rd flipper seems like an appendix. I assume they've tried removing it, and they think it's better with it in there, but it seems really impotent from watching this video. Reminds me of flipper #3 in Devil's Dare.
4. Game seems easy, these ball times look really long. I wonder why that is?
5. failing on middle shot or ramps doesn't look like a big risk - that's cool.

Question: What happened to the drop targets that drop and raise independently, is that functionality still in there?

-mof

#8007 5 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

It's vaporware until it isn't and you guys with pre-order ants in your pants not only deserve your disappointment, but you are 100% responsible for the perpetual delays. After all, you provided the cash flow that allows JJP to run wild with excuses while dowsing the fire that rightfully belongs under Jack's ass.

I'll 100% take the blame and agree, the pre-order model is ridiculous unless it's $1000 or something as seems to be the model other manufacturers are now going to(Spooky, Heighway), the reality is you think JJP would be here right now had he not taken money on both WOZ and TH, I think the odds are likely not. So in the end if I get a game and we have another pinball manufacturer, then I helped make that happen instead of sitting on the sidelines like the armchair QB you seem to be that wants the games and gets to rip someone off to get it. Congrats to you but don't sit here and preach to those of us that have put money in to help see new games happen.

I'm not going to defend JJP in any means I think these rides on WOZ and TH have been ridiculous but at least I put my money where my mouth is so I earned the right to bitch about it.

#8008 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

If Stern took 3 years to ship AC/DC, and it was delivered with the last code release, I think you'd be happy
So it just depends on how important mature code is....
You can pay for a JJP and get it shipped with complete code.... in 2-3 years, or
You can pay for a Stern, get it in couple weeks, and wait 2 years for complete code.

I guess it all works out there same in the end......kinda..... ish.

When has JJP shipped a game with complete code? Woz like originally promised? Nope.
Or you're anticipating TH because that's what's promised?

#8009 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Are you disappointed with Hobbit? Seems kind of odd that you didn't play the game you ordered more, was it just mobbed with people?

Hobbit had the longest line going (there was only one setup). I had the feeling that there wasn't much more to learn on the game in that type of environment (we all had Smaug MB in our first game). My guess is that the LCD is going to be a big part of this game versus multiple playfield toys - so I'm looking forward to seeing how it is integrated into gameplay. Questions marks for me right now are that kickback (windlance thing) and the third flipper - I don't know if we were using it properly (we just pushed the button) - but if that has to feed the third flipper for the "killshot" it will need to be extremely reliable - that would be my only question mark.

The game also looks ripe for one of those 'last minute' feature surprises like the WOZ crystal ball - guess time will tell there.

If there were a few of them setup, I know we would have logged more plays and I could give you better feedback.

#8010 5 years ago

I think the longest I waited to play Hobbit was 15 minutes.

I was disappointed that Automated didn't bring Iron Man or Wrestlemania down.

#8011 5 years ago
Quoted from mof:

This is a good view of the game to study how the ball moves. Only downside is, I couldn't see how much nudging is part of the game.
1. ramps look smooth and fast
2. pops seem to RARELY fire the ball out quickly at the flippers - bummer.
3. 3rd flipper seems like an appendix. I assume they've tried removing it, and they think it's better with it in there, but it seems really impotent from watching this video. Reminds me of flipper #3 in Devil's Dare.
4. Game seems easy, these ball times look really long. I wonder why that is?
5. failing on middle shot or ramps doesn't look like a big risk - that's cool.
Question: What happened to the drop targets that drop and raise independently, is that functionality still in there?
-mof

Yeah good clip. We've certainly had long enough to scrutinise the damn thing so we should have a good idea of shots... Ffs

#8012 5 years ago
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

I am sure GOT will have a better layout than hobbit. Also will most likely have a 3rd flipper with an actual target made for the 3rd flipper.

Can you share the drawings or prototype video you used to make that assessment?

#8013 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

If Stern took 3 years to ship AC/DC, and it was delivered with the last code release, I think you'd be happy
So it just depends on how important mature code is....
You can pay for a JJP and get it shipped with complete code.... in 2-3 years, or
You can pay for a Stern, get it in a couple weeks, and wait 2 years for complete code.

I guess it all works out there same in the end......kinda..... ish.

I was trying to be positive about the wait...but there you are, ready to shit on the positivity. Don't know how or why you became so anti-JJP.

#8014 5 years ago

Most people that are extreamly pessimistic justify it by saying that they are realist, or that they are just speaking the truth. But most of the time it is just contempt and they want to tear down whenever they can to seem authoritative or objective. Just ignore them. (I do)

17
#8015 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I was trying to be positive about the wait...but there you are, ready to shit on the positivity. Don't know how or why you became so anti-JJP.

I'm not "Anti-JJP" per se
I'm "anti-lying", "anti-miselading", anti-overpromising and underdelivering" etc.

If you look back for actual comments about JJP GAMES, you'll find them mostly complimentary and hugely supportive of the massive innovation they have brought with sound and video.

It's Jack's ACTIONS that I've consistently taken issue with.

The way I see it, there's 2 camps here:
Camp 1: "The End Justifies the Means"
Camp 2: "Integrity Matters" or simply, "the END doesnt always justify the means"

Camp 1 supports JJP because, well, they WANT a shiny new pinball machine! Even after all the shenanigans with WoZ, they point to the END PRODUCT and say it was all worth it... regardless of what happened to get there.

They even look today at the year+ delay with TH, the obviously misleading statements from jack, etc, and rationalize it all away with something like "hey, maybe its a year late but all the delays will make it better"

And, personally:

I have a lot of respect for what JJP has produced (WOZ- even though its not my cup-of-tea theme) but I don't give him a pass for everything else. Particularly as someone who's been in sales and sales mgmt most my adult life. His style of "tell 'em whatever you have to get the sale" is disgusting. You CAN tell the truth and still be successful. Some people don't care. I do. And there you have the "personal" piece to my JJP criticism.

PS- I shared my ire (long before the meltdowns) with 2 other "manufacturers" as well.... SkitB and Jpop. I was labeled a "hater' there as well.... same exact premise for my criticism, btw.

#8016 5 years ago

Why have an open house with only one Hobbit pin to play? Why not set a firm date for production?
There will be no Hobbit until 2016 for the preorder people. Sad.

#8017 5 years ago

Here are a few clips from JJP Jersey Shore Show.

Finally got to hear a little from Keith at the Q & A. He discussed a little about his time at Williams and Stern before getting laid-off. Tough time for pinball but I bet Stern wished they could have kept him.

Also a good look at the underside of the playfield and how much JPP put into it. Jack told me that the pop up mechanisms are even unique and had to be specially made. He said he couldn't use ones like in MM because of clearance to the CPU casement.

IMG_0601.jpg

IMG_0599.jpg

#8018 5 years ago

Agree with lowepg. There would be people there that would know nothing about delays or pinside. So best to keep quiet for more sales. Woz standard btw is now £7395 = $11383 in the UK now ( Pinball Heaven )

#8019 5 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

Woz standard btw is now £7395 = $11383 in the UK now

#8020 5 years ago
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

I am sure GOT will have a better layout than hobbit. Also will most likely have a 3rd flipper with an actual target made for the 3rd flipper.

Hear GoT has an upper pf with 2 full size flippers and an obvious dragon toy and no LCD. Just what I've been hearing from sources, no pics have leaked yet.

#8021 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

I'm not "Anti-JJP" per se
I'm "anti-lying", "anti-miselading", anti-overpromising and underdelivering" etc.
If you look back for actual comments about JJP GAMES, you'll find them mostly complimentary and hugely supportive of the massive innovation they have brought with sound and video.
It's Jack's ACTIONS that I've consistently taken issue with.
The way I see it, there's 2 camps here:
Camp 1: "The End Justifies the Means"
Camp 2: "Integrity Matters" or simply, "the END doesnt always justify the means"
Camp 1 supports JJP because, well, they WANT a shiny new pinball machine! Even after all the shenanigans with WoZ, they point to the END PRODUCT and say it was all worth it... regardless of what happened to get there.
They even look today at the year+ delay with TH, the obviously misleading statements from jack, etc, and rationalize it all away with something like "hey, maybe its a year late but all the delays will make it better"
And, personally:
I have a lot of respect for what JJP has produced (WOZ- even though its not my cup-of-tea theme) but I don't give him a pass for everything else. Particularly as someone who's been in sales and sales mgmt most my adult life. His style of "tell 'em whatever you have to get the sale" is disgusting. You CAN tell the truth and still be successful. Some people don't care. I do. And there you have the "personal" piece to my JJP criticism.
PS- I shared my ire (long before the meltdowns) with 2 other "manufacturers" as well.... SkitB and Jpop. I was labeled a "hater' there as well.... same exact premise for my criticism, btw.

Point taken. But Jack is a salesman...and he's also an eternal optomist. What do you want him to say? "Yeah...you might not get your machine for 2-3 years." That'll really pick the sales up! Look at DP with their promises of TBL delivery. It's been very quiet over there as well outside of a few recent playfield videos. They'll tell you how delivery is right around the corner as well...and give you a million different reasons why they didn't hit the target date.

None of these companies are Stern. You either get that when you preorder, or shame on you for believing they hype. I don't really think it's lying or broken promises. I think it's simply misguided optimism.

#8022 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Hear GoT has an upper pf with 2 full size flippers and an obvious dragon toy and no LCD. Just what I've been hearing from sources, no pics have leaked yet.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in the lack of an LCD. But I'll probably feel much better if I hit the start button and hear that glorious opening theme in crystal clear stereo.

14
#8023 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The LCD is and has been a game changer. Dots and Dmd's suck.

Meh.
Ever play a fun EM ?

The action is on the PF & that is where the "fun" is IMHO. A big honking LCD flat panel no doubt gets attention in a line of regular pin but after the initial wow factor its what happens on the PF that keeps people coming back or move to another machine. I never heard of anyone having a favorite machine to play based on looks.

#8024 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Point taken. But Jack is a salesman...and he's also an eternal optomist. What do you want him to say? "Yeah...you might not get your machine for 2-3 years." That'll really pick the sales up! Look at DP with their promises of TBL delivery. It's been very quiet over there as well outside of a few recent playfield videos. They'll tell you how delivery is right around the corner as well...and give you a million different reasons why they didn't hit the target date.
None of these companies are Stern. You either get that when you preorder, or shame on you for believing they hype. I don't really think it's lying or broken promises. I think it's simply misguided optimism.

He is a salesman. If you look back through many of the promises they have nothing to do with optimism. Many are just outright lies. That goes along with the fact that he's a salesman and will do anything to keep a sale. At times there may be failures of optimism but they are far outweighed by easily provable lies. It's hard to tell people a truth that they won't be happy hearing. It's always more damaging to lie to them instead. If I had to cite the two reasons there's always much drama around jjp it would be the lies and jacks posts that show contempt for customers and potential customers. If those two things were gone jjp would be as boring, drama wise, as stern

#8025 5 years ago

For any newbies late to this game, "Shipping in October" means maybe next year.

#8026 5 years ago

damn, I was hoping all you preorder people would have some good news after yesterday. Looks like nothing good really came out of it.

#8027 5 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

If I had to cite the two reasons there's always much drama around jjp it would be the lies and jacks posts that show contempt for customers and potential customers. If those two things were gone jjp would be as boring, drama wise, as stern

As well as contractors, employees, and vendors. There is a reason why Gary doesn't post on Pinside and I think it benefits him in the long run.

-3
#8028 5 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

He is a salesman. If you look back through many of the promises they have nothing to do with optimism. Many are just outright lies. That goes along with the fact that he's a salesman and will do anything to keep a sale. At times there may be failures of optimism but they are far outweighed by easily provable lies. It's hard to tell people a truth that they won't be happy hearing. It's always more damaging to lie to them instead. If I had to cite the two reasons there's always much drama around jjp it would be the lies and jacks posts that show contempt for customers and potential customers. If those two things were gone jjp would be as boring, drama wise, as stern

What are the lies exactly? The WOZ shipping delays? WOZ not shipping with complete code? The people that are still thinking about that are non owners and need to get over it. All 1000 LE's and 1000 numbered standards have been shipped for a while now. The code is also extremely deep now and over a dozen updates were released in a 6 month period.

There is still drama here about JJP as about 6 or so Pinsiders can't stand that JJP surpassed everything Stern has ever built with their first game. For some reason they view JJP as a threat to the status quo with that being Stern. They even blame JJP for Stern raising prices which is ridiculous. Stern raised prices and then people (including myself) paid the inflated prices which was their choice instead of demanding a more feature packed game like WOZ for $6500-$8k.

#8029 5 years ago

I'm not surprised there was no news this weekend, but what a huge disappointment for preorders. Really a missed opportunity for JJP to come clean on the Hobbit production timetable. I feel bad for everyone still waiting on this title. If that GOT reveal meets expectations, get ready for a wave of refund requests.

#8030 5 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

There is a reason why Gary doesn't post on Pinside and I think it benefits him in the long run.

So true. But I'm immediately reminded that Heighway posts on pinside and doesn't get the same flack. Maybe because Full Throttle wasn't as widely anticipated but I think it's because of the transparency with which they post. Either update constantly or don't reveal until it's ready to ship.

#8031 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

The LCD is and has been a game changer. Dots and Dmd's suck.
If GOT doesn't have the LCD I wouldn't even consider it.
I love TWD pin and just dream about an LCD. It's a great pin, my favorite, but the Dmd blows. My RS is 10x better

I wil be disppointed if GoT doesnt include an LCD of some kind.
JJP has truly taken video (and sound!) to a new level.... Stern needs to catch up.

Having said that, if they release a great game (with dots or scoring reels) - people will buy it. If the game is compelling enough, shit, i hardly have time to look up at the display!

Likewise, if they release a lackluster game, all the toys, flashing lights and videos wont make it a keeper for me.

#8032 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

JJP has truly taken video (and sound!) to a new level.... Stern needs to catch up.

And see? Just like that, I love you again!

21
#8033 5 years ago

Stern could release Ghostbusters with a piece of whiteboard to write your scores on in leiu of a display and most of you still would sprain your wrists trying to pull out your wallets fast enough.

Displays are nice, but in the end the GAME matters.

#8034 5 years ago

I heard Ridley Scott is going to direct "3001 - Space Oddessy" soon.

That should be JJP's next game as completion should coincide with the actual year 3001

#8035 5 years ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Hear GoT has an upper pf with 2 full size flippers and an obvious dragon toy and no LCD. Just what I've been hearing from sources, no pics have leaked yet.

I can confirm the upper playfield and dragon part match my sources, I hadn't heard about the LCD. I guess we all just assumed. It would make sense if it was DMD since it seems like it's due before Jurassic World, and that's DMD. Never thought that release order made sense.

This is all relevant to this thread because I really do think GoT was positioned to try and take on Hobbit. From what I've heard they're trying to one up the dragon toy. But man, if it's another DMD game it's going to take some of the wind out of those sails.

And yes, you don't play the display, totally true. Game counts. But when you're spending this kind of cash, and have to make a decision, it's tough to pick the game with the old Lite Brite display over the one with high rez graphics.

#8036 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

There is still drama here about JJP as about 6 or so Pinsiders can't stand that JJP surpassed everything Stern has ever built with their first game.

Sorry man this is not true IMHO I have owned WOZ and played Hobbit... AC/DC and MET and several other Stern's blow both of JJP's games out of the water when it comes to FUN! Notice I didn't say innovation or beauty I said fun, and fun is why I play pinball!

Disclaimer: I'm am not a "hater" and the above statement is my humble oppinion.

#8037 5 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

Meh.
Ever play a fun EM ?
The action is on the PF & that is where the "fun" is IMHO. A big honking LCD flat panel no doubt gets attention in a line of regular pin but after the initial wow factor its what happens on the PF that keeps people coming back or move to another machine. I never heard of anyone having a favorite machine to play based on looks.

For me, the LCD adds so much more to the playing experience. I haven't heard one Woz owner ask to go back to a Dmd.

We will hear all the praises and how great the LCD is as soon as Stern implements it. It doesn't count when JJP does it.

Some people like the old one line slot machines, new video and animation on slots have changed the whole experience.

I love the old EM's and that scoring style much better than a Dmd and that look.

#8038 5 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

We will hear all the praises and how great the LCD is as soon as Stern implements it. It doesn't count when JJP does it.
.

That is more shallow than a kiddie pool but whatever floats your boat.

#8039 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Point taken. But Jack is a salesman...and he's also an eternal optomist. What do you want him to say? "Yeah...you might not get your machine for 2-3 years." That'll really pick the sales up!
.

See, Even you say he's a liar. At the time, i would have liked to hear the truth about when I would have received my Woz, with finished code.
How can you give your money and support someone like that?
Its nothing new. It's been going on for 5 years.

#8040 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

What are the lies exactly? The WOZ shipping delays? WOZ not shipping with complete code? The people that are still thinking about that are non owners and need to get over it. All 1000 LE's and 1000 numbered standards have been shipped for a while now. The code is also extremely deep now and over a dozen updates were released in a 6 month period.
There is still drama here about JJP as about 6 or so Pinsiders can't stand that JJP surpassed everything Stern has ever built with their first game. For some reason they view JJP as a threat to the status quo with that being Stern. They even blame JJP for Stern raising prices which is ridiculous. Stern raised prices and then people (including myself) paid the inflated prices which was their choice instead of demanding a more feature packed game like WOZ for $6500-$8k.

#8041 5 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

That is more shallow than a kiddie pool but whatever floats your boat.

You don't think people will be raving about the LCD when Stern puts it in? I will.

I love my TWDLE, and for the same reason the upgraded callouts make it more fun, seeing show clips, real animation and actual zombie heads getting lopped off would be MUCH more cool than the Dmd.

When its option A versus option B, gimme the option B LCD, it's a night and day difference. That's all I'm saying, obviously it can't affect the play field and how the pin plays.

#8042 5 years ago

"Medieval Madness -Color DMD software " video posted on you tube by CGC this weekend. That really is impressive.

-4
#8043 5 years ago

Nice to see the off-topic forum is doing well.

#8044 5 years ago
Quoted from fatality83:

how did he try to embarrass gary stern at the texas show? What did he say. This question is directed towards anyone that can answer it as I see the OP was thread ejected.

I was their for Texas and did not here Jack bad mouth Sterns or Gary. The opposite he welcoms the competition. It's good for everyone. Better games!

#8045 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Point taken. But Jack is a salesman...and he's also an eternal optomist. What do you want him to say? "Yeah...you might not get your machine for 2-3 years." That'll really pick the sales up!

Quoted from SilverBallz:

See, Even you say he's a liar. At the time, i would have liked to hear the truth about when I would have received my Woz, with finished code.
How can you give your money and support someone like that?
Its nothing new. It's been going on for 5 years.

I think you need to check your "reading comprension."

#8046 5 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Nice to see the off-topic forum is doing well.

Hey, if you have Hobbit news share it, we'd all love to hear it.

#8047 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

There is still drama here about JJP as about 6 or so Pinsiders can't stand that JJP surpassed everything Stern has ever built with their first game.

Yep. The fact that Jack's big show yesterday was a complete bust in regards to Hobbit news has nothing to do with today's drama. It's all because 6 Pinsiders have different taste in pinball than you.

Sorry, but just like Stern with their QC and code issues, JJP creates their own drama.

#8048 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Hey, if you have Hobbit news share it, we'd all love to hear it.

It would only get lost in the hundreds of useless posts like those above it. So no. Add in another useless post

10
#8049 5 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Nice to see the off-topic forum is doing well.

JJP could have filled this thread with news and buzz had this past weekend been what we were lead to believe it might be.

Regarding the discussion of Stern's LCD display as it relates to the Hobbit, I personally don't feel it's off topic. Stern's employees have been hinting that GoT is going to surpass the Hobbit and have this massive BOM with a dragon ball lock and what not...now we hear that GoT might not have an LCD display like the Hobbit will...

Directly relevant? Nope. Ballpark relevant? In lack of other news I'd say it's certainly ballpark relevant. Similar themes. Supposed to have a similar release date (though now it seems GoT will beat it to market). Similar price points. Rival development teams.

The lack of an LCD display will mean GoT is less likely to poach customers off the NIB market from TH.

-20
#8050 5 years ago

Nice to know a mod team member views the lack of on topic material the right to post anything they want anywhere despite the thread subject. Thanks for the clarification.

Now all that time the staff has spent on off-topic matters can be shelved to do something much more site useful.

Quoted from TigerLaw:

JJP could have filled this thread with news and buzz had this past weekend been what we were lead to believe it might be.
Regarding the discussion of Stern's LCD display as it relates to the Hobbit, I personally don't feel it's off topic. Stern's employees have been hinting that GoT is going to surpass the Hobbit and have this massive BOM with a dragon ball lock and what not...now we hear that GoT might not have an LCD display like the Hobbit will...
Directly relevant? Nope. Ballpark relevant? In lack of other news I'd say it's certainly ballpark relevant. Similar themes. Supposed to have a similar release date (though now it seems GoT will beat it to market). Similar price points. Rival development teams.
The lack of an LCD display will mean GoT is less likely to poach customers off the NIB market from TH.

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