Sorry about all the headaches goat

It may be unfortunate, but I don't think there should be any expectation of privacy when posting something on the internet, even if it's in a private forum.

My posting it caused a rift with someone I highly respect, so I have regrets. But like others have said, if it wasn't me it would be someone - you can't keep things on the internet private.

Did you get kicked off the JJP forums as well?

With all due respect: bullshit.

Jack got pissy because he didnt anticipate how unpopular his (assinine) comments became. Then he lashed out at the reposter in a completely petty manner.

I gurantee you that if someone reposted something popular that Jack said, he certainly wouldnt have thrown the hissy fit.

Fact is - he was surprised ar the backlash, embarassed at the publicty it got, and wanted to squash it.

Hmm...mebbe. I tell you what: If there was something between the upvote and downvote thing, I'd give you that. Because you may be really right or really wrong. I'm not sure.

But your AC/DC is still rocking my world!

Over / Under of there being an update given at the open house this coming weekend that says and shows Hobbit on the production line? Expecting a Hobbit update of another sort more than likely sad to say.

Wish I could be there for the fun.

I would absolutely bet there will be SOME fashion go Hobbits on the line for the open house - even if it's purely for show.

At the very least, there will be a "mountain" of parts conspicuously on display read-for-assembly!

Will Hobbit ship before 2016?

It has to. JJP is contractually obligated to get the game out with the release of the third...

...oh, wait a minute. That was last year.

Just barely...is my guess

Nobody knows when the game will ship.

And thanks to this Hobbit Update thread, we know this fact with absolute certainty.

I think "hobbit" will ship... the question is really will "hobbitS" ship

I don't know why all these new companies set themselves up by giving these ambitious estimates. Just say "it'll be done when it's done". Provide updates on the status but never give a date out. It makes them look either incompetent or deceitful. The added stress on their end can't help either.

Preorder money. Who would give Jack any significant amount of money if he was like, "Well I don't know it's done when it's done."? Very few I would guess. Especially in light of his recent remarks regarding JPOP.

Careful, I once said the same of Jack in regards to the excessive delays, and even tagged it IMHO and he threatened litigation. Class act if there ever was one.

Yea just what he needs is another law suit to spend money on.

Heighway just shipped the first customer Full Throttle. Being unboxed today.

It was on the show floor at Expo last year with Hobbit, both prototype games. Both totally playable, but not really done, and with a lot of tweaks in their futures.

My point isn't to say that Full Throttle "won". It wasn't a race really. Rather I'm saying look, there was the game, playable, and this is how long it took to ship it.

Now that I'm working on a game myself I'm really very sympathetic to how long this shit takes. You can think you know it, but when you're inside you just see how many crazy things can go wrong, and how many of them are totally out of your control, even if you're being careful, planning, and doing things the "right way".

I'm not big on cutting Jack slack, I think he's been less than truthful with people here, and constantly shits on this community. And who knows if he's been totally broke before this cash infusion. But there are good people working on this game. Passionate, long-time supporters of pinball, who do awesome work. I'm sure they'll come through.

I think the only difference here is one was a heavily licensend machine, one wasn't. Last week I got a glimpse of what HP are striving to achieve with Alien but licensing is still waiting in the wings so time will tell, I really hope it works out. I saw some pretty amazing things early on with TH but which later got slashed or had to totally redone as they did not fit with the brand or they did not get permission for. I'm in for an Alien LE and am being cautiously optimistic, whatever happens I know it will not be due to the passion and talent at HP, the same goes for TH and JJP.

Also Jack doesn't need me to defend him but I think it's harsh to say he constantly shits on this community. He loves pinball and the people in pinball or I don't think he would be in this so far. And let's be honest there are some people in this community who are absolute morons, trolls, shit-stirrers, etc. however you want to label them. They just thrive on disrupting threads with no real reason, these people deserve to be shitted on from a great height imo

That's a legit point. Licensing is a struggle, no question. Alien has definitely been slowed down by it. But pinball in general is just a complicated endeavor, even once you've solved the licensing problems. Anyways, like I said, not trying to set the two up as a race with Hobbit losing, just saying that even after you've seen and played a pretty complete feeling game it can take a long time to get the real thing in your house.

I know that Keith and JP and David Thiel and everyone else have put in a ton of hard work, and they're pinball heroes, and I'm sure the end product will show it.

It's not harsh, it's a fact. He craps on Pinside constantly. In emails, in forum posts, in private conversations, at shows, in presentations up on stage that are video broadcasted worldwide. Over and over and over. Calls us "Wrongside", mocks us, whatever. It's childish and petty and I wish he'd knock it off, because it really hurts the JJP brand.

I'm not on the JJP forums.

Jack is not crapping on Pinside as a whole but rather the 6 or so regular JJP bashers who have ruined JJP threads and have consistently made repeated jabs and pokes at JJP for months (some years) on end. Still, he shouldn't complain about the over negativity but rather just ignore it. Ignorning what the trolls say is how you beat them in the end.

I take your point, but I would still say some of that is deserved for some people on here. The speculation about the financial situation of his company, accusations about his character and buisness practices, etc. then all the trolls jump on the bandwagon. I'm a JJP customer and I know his comments are not aimed at me. Any issues I've had as a customer I've phoned him up and aired my concerns/grievances and we've sorted it out privately.

Totally agree with u. Jack is only defending himself. I would do the same thing. If the haters would shut the f up things would calm down. If u are in on the hobbit then u deserve answers, if you are not, why say anything.

Okay, you guys can excuse Jack all you want. I'm tired of years of him doing nothing but shitting on the entire site and community, repeatedly, specifically, over and over. I take it personally. If you don't then good for you.

Do I hate delays "YES". Am I tired of waiting "YES". Do I hate excuses "YES". Do I have the option to get a refund "YES". My choice like everyone else. If you don't like preorders don't do it. I know I will never ever do it again. Aurich do you have a hobbit in order? Just asking.

Are you honestly making an apples-to-apples comparison between FT and TH?

I've supported JJP's efforts from the beginning and I have no problem with people "honestly" discussing and sharing opinions on any aspect of JJP (or any manufacturer), positive or negative, whether or not they are "in" on the game. This is a pinball forum afterall.

The people I have a problem with are the ones who show time and again that their posts are the result of some personal grievance. Topic doesn't seem to matter, they track every thread related to their "issue". Their posts consistently serve to incite and inflame and they're speculations consistently take and perpetuate the most negative slant. As a result, my conclusion is that their criticisms are not "honest" and that is what I have a problem with.

This problem is not isolated to JJP, it just seems worse with them. I've seen people who are great contributors in other areas of Pinside get on some crusade and then just can let it go.

In my opinion, we would stay on topic and Pinside would be a lot more pleasant if individuals (determined by the mods) exhibiting these tendencies were not allowed to post in threads related to their "issue" (JJP, Stern, MMr, whatever). Perhaps a "Forum" ban?

Not only are they not contributing anything of value but they are actively hindering constructive discussion. I don't think many people would be affected but it's amazing how much trouble just a few individuals can make.

As a casual observer, I don't believe Jack shits on the entire site or community. He seems to have an issue with 5 or 6 people, who, in all fairness, are painfully annoying.

Operating any company is difficult, especially in its infancy, and you will never make everyone happy while staying afloat. You do hope to make most people happy, however.

I don't agree with every move JJP has made, but some of you guys are just plain vicious.

Thumb up for your post because that's the way Jack (or anyone in the pin industry) should react. Not meaning I support all of Jack's posts!

Why not compare these two?
Sincere question - no hidden agenda, not preordering one (yet). Both widebodies with LCD display.
TH vs Alien(s) could be a better comparison as both are movie licenses but I have not seen/played Aliens yet.

I prefer TH for its theme and art, but FT for its shot map...and price (seen from Europe). Fastest widebody I ever played. No doubt TH code will be great, unsure if it can make it a great game.

It's almost like we've heard that before, about some other game that's overdue......................................................

Nope. And I'm unlikely to ever buy any JJP honestly, for one simple reason: they're too expensive. Someone just started that "what's your max?" thread about buying pinballs, and I said the most I've ever spent is $7200 (METLE), and I hope to never top that. I'd maybe consider it if I could get one for $7500 shipped, I could push my price point a little, but that's already stretching it, and I think the standards are at least $8k now right? And shipping on top of that? Not 100% sure.

So I'm just an observer. I hope it's a cool game.

I was trying to make a polite point about how it takes a long time to get a game done, it's not just JJP. I think it would be rude to come into a Hobbit thread and try and compare it to a game from a company I'm doing work for, so I won't. But I will say they're both widebody pins, with LCD displays, RGB lighting, etc. Building them isn't really all that different. It took a while for Full Throttle. It's taking a while for Hobbit. It happens.

Again though, he doesn't call out those 6 people. He calls out "Wrongside" etc. He's been doing it for years. Since long before WOZ was finished. He comes here and does it. He does it on stage, just watch the Pacific Pinball Expo stream of JJP's presentation. I've heard him do it in person, standing right in front of me, in a conversation to someone else.

I'm beating a horse here, sorry, I don't mean to, but it's just frustrating. We're not all clones here. If McCune or whoever doesn't like JJP fine. He sure doesn't speak for me. Lots of potential customers here! I wish I was one frankly, but as I noted above, the games have just gotten too damn expensive for me to to justify.

Hobbit doesn't really seem like a game I want, but I've only played the prototype at Expo, I could totally change my mind. And Lawlor's game could be great. New pinballs are exciting. But not $8,500+ exciting. That's why I dropped out of TBL. I think that game is going to be incredible. I just couldn't stomach the price after I got over my initial buzz.

I bought a bugatti and it was 6 months late and they credited me back $$, got hand written letter, and ton of phone calls letting me know what was going on. Never once did someone say to cancel. Ordered a WOZ and after the third delay (that no one called to inform me)I called and got the anwser you all get. If you don't like it you can cancel but if you latter decide to buy the price will be higher. I canceled and picked the game up before most here and got the game for the same price. Jack lies and I hope everyone knows that by now. What gets me is how much s#!t some of you take to maybe save a buck. Your beholden to him for a couple of bills. Don't tell me any other bs. If preordered a vacuum and a vacuum company did it to you, you would be livid. Your stuck stuck with him and you secretly hope things change with an investment. "Money has never fixed lies but just created more."

I still have hopes that this will be a good game but it has lost all of it's thunder. It's so late at this point most people have stopped caring about it. JJP talked a big talk about all of the issues being worked out for the second game and how much smoother it will go. For whatever reason this has not happened at all. Now they will be lucky to get any games out in 2015. They could be in real trouble if there open house does not show games on the line as stern is going to announce there next game around the same time and it's very likely to crush TH if the rumors I've heard are correct.

Thats what happened to me, I think the game looks great but I recently backed out as I just don't care anymore. Still, I will probably pick one up second hand in the years to come.

Something I wish to say one day!

Amen. This looks like the current way of thinking lately. I keep noticing more & more people (like myself) who were vocal supporters in this thread over the last 2 years making comments just like yours. People are dropping out & the buzz on this project is practically dead.

Not making it a race?

I have a feeling the factory will atleast be staged to appear that games are being assembled during the open house.

Why would you ever take your perception of anyone's treatment of the site and community personally? It's childish.

Why exactly did you come to a Hobbit Update thread and announce your game is now shipping?

His game isn't shipping, nor does he have a game. I believe he is just doing some contract work on Alien as he has provided some really nice alternate translites for several games that came up a little short in the art department. I think it was a good move by heighway and really smart on their part.

Jack has numerous times mocked pinside, it doesn't bother me and nor am I offended by it. I don't think it's a smart business decision though. You certainly do not see Gary doing that with stern.

Because I'm an active member of said community. If that's childish to you okay then. I take it personally. I didn't care when Jack called me out on stage at Expo, it was funny, and I took it in the spirit he meant it. The Pinside thing has gone long past being a joke, and is just bitter and demeaning.

Not my game. Wasn't involved in it, don't make any money from it, not an employee of the company in question. I'm working on Alien, and that's it. I guess I could benefit from Full Throttle sales in some way, but come on, there's a thread on the front page right now about the first one arriving, am I really telling anyone anything new? The point was it took up until today from last Expo to ship. That's a long time. Shit happens. Hobbit is in the same boat, but it's not a problem just JJP has.

But really, if people want to fight with me for trying to give Hobbit some slack for being late go ahead, I'm sure it will make this thread even better.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell... beyond that are the people are the ones who fuel the drama-engine.

Agree 100%. I'm not offended by anything Jack or Rick do, but they both display bizarre behavior from a public relations/company building perspective. I guess the downside of being rich and self-employed is that there's no one to remind you that dignified silence is the correct response to 99% of online criticisms. Ship your games and provide decent customer support and the rest will take care of itself.

So has it been 3 years from initial announcement to shipping for FT? I think so...that's what WOZ took, right? Sounds about right. Hobbit is 3 years since announcement this December or is it 4? Hopefully FT manufacturing isn't a trickle like WOZ was in the early months. Still, nice to see another manufacturer with success and not another Predator or JPOP.

I'm the creative director on Alien. I'm working on all of the game art, designing the animations along with a friend of mine, helping out with rules etc. I'm pretty actively involved in it. But you're right, I'm a contractor, I'm not a Heighway employee (I still work for Ars Technica) and I have zilch to do with Full Throttle. Never ever played one actually, though I saw the proto at Expo last year.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The point is I'm not shit talking Hobbit, I'm trying to say that it's understandable how things take longer than you think they should. If anything the real fault is the lack of communication about it all.

Hell, if you want to take a game that I absolutely have no connection too I could say the same thing about TBL. They had 3 working prototypes to Hobbit's 1 at Expo. Still haven't shipped a single game. This is pinball.

Actually it might be, the game has been in development for a while. But I'm just trying to count since both companies showed working prototypes at Expo as a similar launching point. Neither game was done, but you could flip them, see them, touch them, etc. They weren't Jpop fantasies.

I find the waiting very similar to waiting for anything to happen during the movies. It's all about theme integration.

any new Hobbit news or just Heighway pumping?

A new "The Hobbit" item popped up on the Jersey Jack Pinball store website today.

https://store.jerseyjackpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=73

The-Hobbit-Translite-v9-420x487.jpg

That's awesome. Where's the rest of it?