(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update


By B9

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by GravitaR
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#7503 4 years ago

I don't know if that will speed up delivery of TH, but there should not be any question that about it being made.

#7504 4 years ago

great to hear. Let's get those Hobbits cranking already.

#7505 4 years ago

Wish there would be some concrete information. 'Announces material investment'.

Now what does that mean? It is made immediately, after a month or spread over years. How does this impact manufacturing and shipping of the scheduled pins?

Still no 'real' news for me.

#7506 4 years ago

JJP future looking even brighter.

Main takeaway from the article: "Jersey Jack Pinball will manufacture the much anticipated Hobbit line of games this fall, and has announced a collaboration with famed pinball designer Pat Lawlor on a new, original-game to be launched in the spring of 2016."

YES!! YES!! YES!!

#7507 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

Wish there would be some concrete information. 'Announces material investment'.
Now what does that mean? It is made immediately, after a month or spread over years. How does this impact manufacturing and shipping of the scheduled pins?
Still no 'real' news for me.

No details, and don't expect any. Could be straight equity, but more likely convertible debt. I doubt we'll ever know.

#7508 4 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

No details, and don't expect any. Could be straight equity, but more likely convertible debt. I doubt we'll ever know.

No problem with that. What I do find a problem is that we still do not know when we will get our games.

Manufacture TH this fall. So how many are made? When will all orders be produced. Etc. That is what I want to know.

#7509 4 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

... with famed pinball designer Pat Lawlor on a new, original-game to be launched in the spring of 2016."
YES!! YES!! YES!!

I almost feel like I am being trolled.

Why on EARTH would you believe that JJP's "spring of 2016" release for Pat's game is accurate.

Quintuple face palm

#7510 4 years ago

Do we really need two hobbit update threads? they are being posted with the same updates.
I said it before and everyone got their panties in a bunch.
This thread should be closed: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/2015-hobbit-update-thread

#7511 4 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

I almost feel like I am being trolled.
Why on EARTH would you believe that JJP's "spring of 2016" release for Pat's game is accurate.
Quintuple face palm

Launched doesn't mean finished or shipping... Just announced.

The big thing here is jack taking in another group of investors. It must be getting crowded at the head of the table...

#7512 4 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Launched doesn't mean finished or shipping... Just announced.
The big thing here is jack taking in another group of investors. It must be getting crowded at the head of the table...

Agree to disagree. I could easily be wrong, but here is one definition:
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/product-launch.html

By consumers having access, I mean this to be able to buy it. This is different from a product announcement

Picky stuff, but when I hear people expecting a launch, I want he rocket ship to be blasting off

10
#7513 4 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

I almost feel like I am being trolled.
Why on EARTH would you believe that JJP's "spring of 2016" release for Pat's game is accurate.
Quintuple face palm

Exactly.

Jack has ZERO credibilty with these type of annoucements. If he blew his "contractually obligated date" that he himself committed as "delay-proof" - then why would anyone beleive something as inane as a pr release.

Nothing he SAYS means anything- all that matters is what he DOES. Hold the celebration till one rolls off the end of the assemly line....

Heres to hoping that finally starts happening soon.

#7514 4 years ago

Why did he need an investment? Thought he said things were going great.

#7515 4 years ago
Quoted from brent149:

Why did he need an investment? Thought he said things were going great.

He had no choice but to lie. If he told the truth, it would all be over.
But for all we know, this investment group could bail like the last one.

10
#7516 4 years ago

The hate in this thread is amazing...

#7517 4 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

The hate in this thread is amazing...

Totally agree.

#7518 4 years ago

I don't have hate for jjp. I just don't like when any company lies constantly about seemingly everything.

#7519 4 years ago
Quoted from brent149:

Why did he need an investment? Thought he said things were going great.

No one but jack knows JJPs financial health.... We can draw conclusions from their their credit raring, etc, but its mostly conjecture.

However, plenty of healthy companies can benefit from a cash infusion. Organic growth can be very slow.... An investment can help dramtically accelerate that growth.

Personally, i hope this allows them to cut the umbilical cord to preorder money, stop the line jumping to ring in new cash, etc, etc and move to a model where they can build machines, market them and collect payment when they are actually ready to ship.

#7520 4 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

The hate in this thread is amazing...

Maybe 'hate' should be converted to no trust

#7521 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

No problem with that. What I do find a problem is that we still do not know when we will get our games.
Manufacture TH this fall. So how many are made? When will all orders be produced. Etc. That is what I want to know.

Would agree with you. Maybe he has a professionally designed assembly line in place, I have never seen it. Seems like he has great creativity (A+), but when it come to mass production through an assembly line, he is failing (F).

I hope the capital goes to address this huge gap for him.

#7522 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

Maybe 'hate' should be converted to no trust

Trust is earned. I think you mean blind faith.

#7523 4 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

The hate in this thread is amazing...

Seems like frustration and not hate. People are being asked to live with blind faith. Better communication hat is fact based and not overly optimistic would address this frustration.

-1
#7524 4 years ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

Seems like frustration and not hate. People are being asked to live with blind faith. Better communication hat is fact based and not overly optimistic would address this frustration.

Not understanding the frustration. Especially when many of the folks complaining don't have money tied up. It's pretty simple....You either wait for the product or sell. I have paid in full TH and I'm patiently waiting for it. Certainly not worth getting frustrated over.

#7525 4 years ago
Quoted from hillbilly:

Not understanding the frustration. Especially when many of the folks complaining don't have money tied up. It's pretty simple....You either wait for the product or sell. I have paid in full TH and I'm patiently waiting for it. Certainly not worth getting frustrated over.

It is pretty simple. You either do what your promised or tell the truth to people you got money from. Waiting almost 3 years is getting ridiculous. Yes I am frustrated. Only caused by non information by JJP.

The carrot has rotten long ago.

#7526 4 years ago
Quoted from alexanr1:

Trust is earned. I think you mean blind faith.

I mean trust, that indeed has to be earned.
Not seeing that happen at the moment.

10
#7527 4 years ago
Quoted from hillbilly:

Not understanding the frustration. Especially when many of the folks complaining don't have money tied up. It's pretty simple....You either wait for the product or sell. I have paid in full TH and I'm patiently waiting for it. Certainly not worth getting frustrated over.

The frustration is caused by the expectations JJP instilled to get people to order the game.

He did say they were contractually obligated to ship when the third movie came out.

People expected that to happen. It didn't. More delays followed. Hence, frustration.

#7528 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

I mean trust, that indeed has to be earned.
Not seeing that happen at the moment.

JJP had some start up pains, no doubt, pinball is hard.

The biggest problem JJP had with WOZ PR was how long it took to satisfy the preorders. They eventually delivered on every game and that was good, then TH got delayed seemingly indefinently. Now, TH would seem to be back on track and that is great.

I've long said I'm a buyer for TH once it is available at a distributor I trust for instant delivery. I look forward to the game.

#7529 4 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

He did say they were contractually obligated to ship when the third movie came out.
People expected that to happen. It didn't. More delays followed. Hence, frustration.

This is true and was never really explained by anyone (and it did give a lot of people ammo to say "I told you so", which is never good), but a lot more people than just Jack said this, many of the people that work for him trumpeted this as well.

Doesn't really bother me, perhaps it was true but delays with the studio approving use of assets or something resulted in an extension. Perhaps the requirement was just to have a demo done or something less than shipping games to customers. I just don't know, never saw the contract.

-1
#7530 4 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

The frustration is caused by the expectations JJP instilled to get people to order the game.
He did say they were contractually obligated to ship when the third movie came out.
People expected that to happen. It didn't. More delays followed. Hence, frustration.

Still frustrated or you over it? If you don't have any salt into it then it shouldn't taste that bad.

#7531 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

JJP had some start up pains, no doubt, pinball is hard.
The biggest problem JJP had with WOZ PR was how long it took to satisfy the preorders. They eventually delivered on every game and that was good, then TH got delayed seemingly indefinently. Now, TH would seem to be back on track and that is great.
I've long said I'm a buyer for TH once it is available at a distributor I trust for instant delivery. I look forward to the game.

What's crazy is that the wait for TH has now exceeded the time that JJP was announced as a company and the time the first WOZ games shipped. TH appears to have less going on it then WOZ (still a lot), the platform is already built and a factory exists so that makes the delays even more puzzling. With the new influx of cash hopefully they can start Hobbit production very soon and get Pats game out early next year. It sounds like once TH does start shipping that code for it will be complete or very close to being completed so that's a plus.

12
#7532 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

JJP had some start up pains, no doubt, pinball is hard.

JJP was circling the toilet bowl and about to drop in because they did not know how to run a manufacturing operation. They had the sales part down, but they squandered way too much money on design and production. Delays and redesigns cost money. Having to keep the lights on and people employed while bleeding hundreds of thousands of dollars to do things like redesign a simple damn LED board system and replace them in the field is a killer. They are over four years in and have shipped somewhere south of 2000 games. They promised the world and then reality set in.

Fortunately it appears this new investor came in just before they went under and seems to have deep pockets. Hopefully the investor is exerting some control and providing some of their own factory managers and quality specialists (ISO9000) and moving Jack into a sales-only role. Simply handing a bunch of money to someone who blew a perfectly doable business situation is not exactly a smart investment. That is after all what JPOP seems to be wanting.

#7533 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

What's crazy is that the wait for TH has now exceeded the time that JJP was announced as a company and the time the first WOZ games shipped. TH appears to have less going on it then WOZ (still a lot), the platform is already built and a factory exists so that makes the delays even more puzzling.

Hit the nail on the head

-1
#7534 4 years ago

I am constantly amazed at the frighteningly vitriolic and incessantly whiney nature of this thread where not even good news makes a splash.

I hope all of those reading this and the buyers take a good look at both their own stomach for risk and what is reasonable expectation for pinball development and delivery. Yes Hobbit was delayed and that created tension, but based on the experience of predator, the popaduik games, and the delays and challenges for the hobbit, everyone today should have a clear understanding of how difficult and complex manufacturing a game can be and know there are risks and know that the facts and progress say over and over that this isn't headed down the same failed path. So why do so many continue to push it in that direction? Yes Spooky did it, but they didn't make 1000's of machines, or leverage a very expensive license (which requires more machines to make it financially feasible), and take on an entirely new level of complexity both in design and features. All valid information to provide a reasonable expectation, yet everyone still acts like they were mislead. I feel like instead most just ignored history and basic facts.

JJP IMO is communicating detail and have explained most of their delays. Yet speculation after speculation on this forum becomes presumable fact. To what end? It doesn't make anything better and generates a mob mentality. Maybe its deliberate, however I'd like to think instead its just more likely a snowball that can't seem to find a place to stop. Maybe it won't until delivery. However none of the negativity will have done anything but harm.

I really don't see how these game will not ship, and probably soon, so why is everyone still whining and destructively and groundlessly speculating?

What will come out of this is that the Hobbit will be a one-of-a-kind game. Nobody including JJP will take on this level of complexity and risk, because clearly there's no support in seeing it grow. Instead they want the immediate reward and are happy to get stern level of quality and design. That's sad. If we had been given version 1 of the hobbit, the complaint would be different. Instead so many who want this game spend time damaging the community with conjecture and complaint about future of this MFG to what end? IMO I'd rather tough it out and get the better game. Blizzard/Activation has made a model of delivering content to ravenous buyers on a "When its done, its done" style and its worked very well. Why can't pinball people do the same?

The toxic part here is the money up front. I don't think enough buyers recognize or have a stomach for the risk, and the mentality that its an investment in something that can't exist without upfront capital, that immediately puts it in a category different than something you buy off the shelf.

As JJP grows and learns these lessons, they will get better at setting expectations, communicating, and planning. Hopefully too the buying community will take something from it and know better what to expect and have more realistic and less toxic responses to continued missteps that come from growth.

I really hate the idea of commenting on a thread directly vs the topic. Its what makes forums toxic and prevent it from being a conversation. However I my hope is that some will see that there's clear light on a very near finish line, and detach from the past and its poison, move on, and get ready for the fun again.

I ask myself every time I post, what do I want out of what I'm saying. If you want change, why not spend time on constructively building a positive change vs, destructively tearing something else down? Both take about the same effort, but the outcome and price of each long term is very different.

You can decide to build something or destroy it. Me, I'm for building.

#7535 4 years ago
Quoted from VacFink:

What will come out of this is that the Hobbit will be a one-of-a-kind game. Nobody including JJP will take on this level of complexity

I wouldn't be too sure of that.

LTG : )™

#7536 4 years ago

No trust, don't pre order then.
Wait till its available.

-3
#7537 4 years ago

Let me ask a serious question, if JJP asks for upfront money on game 3 will people be pissed? I assume we should get this issue out of the way because we all know it's coming. It's always a good practice to get upfront money in any business if you can pull it off, but what is the expectation from people here?? Will the investors change that part of the business model?? I just don't see it happening. Let's be honest, the problem with the prepaid model is you have to announce time tables. Time tables are a good thing too, as if a company cannot hit them, there is a good chance they will go under. Although I am excited and happy for JJP, many here were 100% right, JJP was clearly in trouble.

#7538 4 years ago

I think Jack knows that enough die hard pinheads will make an early deposit on JJP #3 simply due to the fact thats its Pat Lawlor. Will it be required? I doubt it, as an original theme hopefully means less expenses and time with all the license crappola, if so will people be pissed? either way there will be complaints, I wish Stern would go back to original themes, don't we all? I mean some licensed themes are great (Aliens) but I would rather have The Hobbit be Orcs and Knights vs Elves or whatever, leave it open for the designer to create, I believe pinball has lost that element and needs to get it back.

#7539 4 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Let me ask a serious question, if JJP asks for upfront money on game 3 will people be pissed? I assume we should get this issue out of the way because we all know it's coming. It's always a good practice to get upfront money in any business if you can pull it off, but what is the expectation from people here?? Will the investors change that part of the business model?? I just don't see it happening. Let's be honest, the problem with the prepaid model is you have to announce time tables. Time tables are a good thing too, as if a company cannot hit them, there is a good chance they will go under. Although I am excited and happy for JJP, many here were 100% right, JJP was clearly in trouble.

I don't think anyone was upset when $1k was required for MMr. If it's more than that, then people can be upset if they want, or simply not order. We always have the option to simply wait until it comes out to buy it.

14
#7540 4 years ago
Quoted from VacFink:

I really hate the idea of commenting on a thread directly vs the topic. Its what makes forums toxic and prevent it from being a conversation.

Yes, you have done a great job of toning down the toxic nature of the forum and really moved the conversation forward with your post in a JJP Hobbit thread when you said this:

Quoted from VacFink:

Instead they want the immediate reward and are happy to get stern level of quality and design. That's sad.

Your post is so ironic it isn't funny. You engage in the very thing that causes the constant bickering in so many of the JJP threads with your above statement. I.e, you can't just praise JJP for things that they may be doing right, you have to knock Stern in the process.

#7541 4 years ago

image.jpg

#7542 4 years ago

How many times does JJP have to say they aren't taking pre order money on pin #3 for it to sink in?

How many people would actually be crazy enough to do it if they did?

#7543 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

How many times does JJP have to say they aren't taking pre order money on pin #3 for it to sink in?
How many people would actually be crazy enough to do it if they did?

i can think of one off the top of my head, he just needs the right amount of lubricant to pull the pre order trigger... i don't believe anything jjp says so i guess that means pre orders are a very real possibility for game #3 imo.

if things would have sunk in hobbit would have no pre orders either but here we are, rinse and repeat on #3 i guess.

#7544 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Your post is so ironic it isn't funny. You engage in the very thing that causes the constant bickering in so many of the JJP threads with your above statement. I.e, you can't just praise JJP for things that they may be doing right, you have to knock Stern in the process.

That wasn't the intent but your right if its taken that way. I didn't intend it to be a knock, I just don't see the two have the same goals in terms of design and focus. The Hobbit shows very little restraint for time or cost in terms of its build and focus, which is not the case for Stern. I'm not perfect either.

I guess if I had to put a point on it, I would say I wanted to take my best shot at suggesting everyone posting here isn't as bad as they seem. I'd like to the community is caught up in a toxic negative spiral that's hard to get out of unless you stop and think about what it means and does. I really hate looking to this thread for updates and finding what I see today.

Either way, I took a stab and tried to put up a few blocks on the foundation, and see I pushed out others in the same way without realizing it.

#7545 4 years ago
Quoted from VacFink:

That wasn't the intent but your right if its taken that way. I didn't intend it to be a knock, I just don't see the two have the same goals in terms of design and focus. The Hobbit shows very little restraint for time or cost in terms of its build and focus, which is not the case for Stern. I'm not perfect either.
I guess if I had to put a point on it, I would say I wanted to take my best shot at suggesting everyone posting here isn't as bad as they seem. I'd like to the community is caught up in a toxic negative spiral that's hard to get out of unless you stop and think about what it means and does. I really hate looking to this thread for updates and finding what I see today.
Either way, I took a stab and tried to put up a few blocks on the foundation, and see I pushed out others in the same way without realizing it.

It's nice to get a thoughtful response. At least you considered the other side of things and how they can be interpreted, and realized how part of your own statement could lead to the very things that you wanted to avoid.

#7546 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

No trust, don't pre order then.
Wait till its available.

This is a too simple statement and letting out the situation people were in when they pre ordered.

Trust can be broken, and if a game has already been paid in full and is still not delivered. What are you going to do?

#7547 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

This is a too simple statement and letting out the situation people were in when they pre ordered.
Trust can be broken, and if a game has already been paid in full and is still not delivered. What are you going to do?

I would say your trying to make it too complicated. If you paid in full like I am, you either wait or if the trust factor puts you on the other side of things then you sell. It really is that simple.

#7548 4 years ago
Quoted from hillbilly:

I would say your trying to make it too complicated. If you paid in full like I am, you either wait or if the trust factor puts you on the other side of things then you sell. It really is that simple.

There are much more factors to it. And it just irritates me that other people always come up with the same options over and over again. There is a history, you have to take that in account. For one thing, the SE version has increased 2000 euros in price! Like I only have room for 1 pin, etc.

My main problem is the lack of concrete info. When is my game being delivered. Based on that info I can make a decision. It is all too vague at the moment.

And for me there is only one alternative at the moment, but that pin isn't available either.

#7549 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

My main problem is the lack of concrete info. When is my game being delivered. Based on that info I can make a decision. It is all too vague at the moment.
And for me there is only one alternative at the moment, but that pin isn't available either.

You will NEVER get an accurate date on when your pin will ship with the pre-order model. If you NEED that, the options are:
purchase when in stock and shipping from inventory
or
purchase on secondary market

Not sure why you think that's overly simplistic? You may be aggravated with people suggesting the same options over and over, but if you ask the same question over and over, how else should people respond

Cheers.

#7550 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

You will NEVER get an accurate date on when your pin will ship with the pre-order model.

Well, I guess that's true if you use every pre-order to date as a basis for that conclusion.

Still, never is a long time. Some day someone might actually hit a pre-order date...........naw!

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