Quoted from PACMAN:My goal is $50,000
You're gonna need a bigger boa... uh ... goal
Quoted from PACMAN:My goal is $50,000
You're gonna need a bigger boa... uh ... goal
Quoted from Goronic:You're gonna need a bigger boa... uh ... goal
Crud you are right, i'll get sucked into pre-ordering a JAWS too through Pinside hype!! I'll add another $9K to my goal.
Quoted from PACMAN:Crud you are right, i'll get sucked into pre-ordering a JAWS too through Pinside hype!! I'll add another $9K to my goal.
It's a Stern right? So it won't be 9K
MSRP for KISS LE is $8795
Quoted from Goronic:It's a Stern right? So it won't be 9K
Quoted from Goronic:It's a Stern right? So it won't be 9K
That includes the animatronic shark topper and the wave patterned upgraded armor.
Quoted from PACMAN:MSRP for KISS LE is $8795
I spent less that that on The Hobbit SE version - loaded
Now if I can just find where I left it...
Quoted from PACMAN:MSRP for KISS LE is $8795
The only thing worse than preordering is paying retail.
Very glad to be watching this from a far. I was told almost 2 years ago when I was canceling that the Hobbit was almost sold out in a condescending your loss kind of way. I see Jack is still acting like your order does not matter much to me and you should let him sit on your interest a little longer.
I keep coming here hoping for a great update and an improved Hobbit but the game seems to suffer from floaty ness and being kinda of tweaked without a real head pin designer. Wish all you preorders well but at this point I hope your mainly ok with hoping for 2016 release.
Me I just don't get what people like about this game, I have sort of lost interest just watching videos. Guess I'm going to miss out on all the fun.
Quoted from Ballypinball:Well as a share holder how can it continue without him?
Same way it happened to Steve Jobs. He can still be a shareholder, just not involved.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:If he has received a cash injection, shouldn't he announce? Even if he has been diluted big time, a cash injection is a positive.
Parts for equity is not cash, and not good.
Quoted from TimeBandit:Parts for equity is not cash, and not good.
You Are Talking Out Of your Arse.
Gary Stern Doesn't even own Stern anymore, but is the Main Guy.
Trust me I wish I had shares in JJP with what's Coming!!
Quoted from Ballypinball:Trust me I wish I had shares in JJP with what's Coming!!
Interestingly, we can find this exact quote in both the SkitB and Jpop threads at one point or another.... actually several times....
Quoted from lowepg:Interestingly, we can find this exact quote in both the SkitB and Jpop threads at one point or another.... actually several times....
Not From me you Didn't
Quoted from Ballypinball:You Are Talking Out Of your Arse.
Gary Stern Doesn't even own Stern anymore, but is the Main Guy.
Investors invest in What they think will make money in the future
Trust me I wish I had shares in JJP with what's Coming!!
I'm reminded of the company HearMe back in 1998. I loved the product and bought some shares. Just before they stopped trading, I ordered the actual stock certificate so I could frame it and never forget that the product doesn't make the business. I still have that nice reminder of my ignorance and stupid investment. Although JJP's product is much more tangible, without the numbers, we don't know anything about the business. In my opinion, the business is suffering the risk of the pre-paid model which to me is like a great big loan you can never pay down. The delay of the Hobbit has nothing to do with parts or designs. It has to do with cash flow. Hobbit will not start until orders for WOZ slow down. There is no way JJP can shut down the flow of new money while building hundreds of machines that were paid for years ago. That money left the station long ago.
Quoted from Ballypinball:You Are Talking Out Of your Arse.
Gary Stern Doesn't even own Stern anymore, but is the Main Guy.
Investors invest in What they think will make money in the future
Trust me I wish I had shares in JJP with what's Coming!!
I'm not sure Gary ever owned 100% of Stern. I'm not sure he personally had millions to buy the company from Sega. More likely, he had some silent partners in '99, and added some more ofter the 2008 meltdown.
Quoted from SadSack:The delay of the Hobbit has nothing to do with parts or designs. It has to do with cash flow. Hobbit will not start until orders for WOZ slow down. There is no way JJP can shut down the flow of new money while building hundreds of machines that were paid for years ago. That money left the station long ago.
Yup.
Building TH = zero *immediate* cash flow, in fact, it creates negative $$$ flow since he needs to buy parts
Building WoZ= cash flow.
I said as much months ago when folks were lamenting the delays and suggesting (weepily) that "Jack wants these games produced as quickly as possible more than anyone here does"
To which I stated the same....
Its exactly the same issue as the standard line jumpers back when pre-roder folks were waiting.
Its not surprising. The only thing surprising is the people that continue to be surprised by this.
"Contractual obligations" be damned, TH will hit the assembly line "purely coincidentally" once the WoZ backlog subsides....
Quoted from lowepg:TH will hit the assembly line "purely coincidentally" once the WoZ backlog subsides....
What makes you think there is a WOZ backlog?
Quoted from SadSack:The delay of the Hobbit has nothing to do with parts or designs. It has to do with cash flow.
Pure speculation on your part. Unless you have some evidence to point to, other than your own enlightened opinion, you are simply spreading FUD. We've been down this road before... Jack is out of cash, lying about delays, etc. This place is an echo chamber
The best way to stimulate cash flow would be to begin TH production. You think they would rather sit on accumulated TH parts? Cash and carry TH games will outsell WOZ 10 right now. We all know they will have to mix in retail machines with preorder production as was done in the first year or 2 with WOZ. That is just a reality.
Quoted from karl:I am sorry to say this, but this clip reminds me of this thread at the moment
» YouTube video
okay, i actually lol'ed at that. huge Rush fan, how did i never see that before?
Alex never lets me down.
Quoted from Ballypinball:Watch this space!
Wayne, why was the quote edited to remove June 1st? Some new information? Hopefully ships soon.
Scott
Quoted from Ballypinball:Not From me you Didn't
Nah, we just had you stringing people along for a non-existent MM remake for 10 years.
Quoted from Ballypinball:Want to give you the latest news as I know it.
Nah, if you REALLY wanted to do that, you would just make another post with an updated prediction, and not just go back and quietly edit the date out of your previous post.
Quoted from fuko:Pure speculation on your part. Unless you have some evidence to point to, other than your own enlightened opinion, you are simply spreading FUD. We've been down this road before... Jack is out of cash, lying about delays, etc. This place is an echo chamber
The best way to stimulate cash flow would be to begin TH production. You think they would rather sit on accumulated TH parts? Cash and carry TH games will outsell WOZ 10 right now. We all know they will have to mix in retail machines with preorder production as was done in the first year or 2 with WOZ. That is just a reality.
So you believe that producing several hundred prepaid machines will help cash flow. Please elaborate as your logic escapes me.
I also didn't realize that JJP has been producing to inventory. What is your evidence for this claim?
Quoted from SadSack:So you believe that producing several hundred prepaid machines will help cash flow. Please elaborate as your logic escapes me.
I'm saying 2 things: first, shipping TH will allow JJP to collect on monies owed for outstanding preorders (not everyone is paid in full); but more importantly they will sell more standards to new customers who are not yet bought in. The same model was used in early days of WOZLE production and is driving WOZ sales today
Quoted from SadSack:I also didn't realize that JJP has been producing to inventory. What is your evidence for this claim?
I am referring to parts already received for production of new TH games (I've not seen their factory, so can't prove it), but also to sunk R&D cost. The only way to convert that to cash is to start shipping
Quoted from lowepg:Interestingly, we can find this exact quote in both the SkitB and Jpop threads at one point or another.... actually several times....
To this day.
Quoted from fuko:I'm saying 2 things: first, shipping TH will allow JJP to collect on monies owed for outstanding preorders (not everyone is paid in full); but more importantly they will sell more standards to new customers who are not yet bought in. The same model was used in early days of WOZLE production and is driving WOZ sales today
This is true but WOZ was already an old film but it didn't matter. The Hobbit is old films and it does matter. It's certain that new demand for Standard's will now be diminished.
We really don't know squat about JJP's financial position - that's a fact so it's a little wrong to speculate based on what you don't know. If I listened to all "it's a Ponzi scheme" "the sky is falling" crap I wouldn't be the proud owner of a really nice WOZLE now. Hobbit will be a great game if you can stand the wait.
Quoted from jazc4:Jack said production will start in weeks, not months
12 weeks is still 3 months.........
Yes and Kevin Kulek said refunds would come in days, not weeks. It's just a way to tell a "middle truth".. or a "lie" as middle truths are more accurately described. I've outright called Jack a liar several times in this thread, but I do respect the fact that his lies may be a necessary component for the success of his business model. I'd expect the Hobbit to start production around the time the WOZ market is completely saturated and not a moment sooner.
Quoted from jazc4:Jack said production will start in weeks, not months
Jack said that back in January... it has been many months now..
But I disagree about the CF issue.. most people are not paid in full.. Jack knows he can't ask for final payment from all of the big buyers (distributors).. so he has a huge incentive to get production rolling to cash in on about $3000 CF/machine... No one is buying a NIB WOZ now... at least here in NA..
Having said all that.. and having put in since late NOV 2012.. I'm now out of this game.. I've seen the Smaug MB too many times.. game shots look boring...and I just am sick of everything JJP being widebody...
Quoted from PBINTHESOUTH:Jack said that back in January... it has been many months now..
so how often does JJP give updates, news, info and status on the hobbit? just to keep the purchasers at least up to speed on where they are at?.. you know transparency, involvement etc ? all the good things... we expect from a manufacturer.
I find the lack of updates completely unprofessional at this point. But if you have no good news to report, then I can see why they've gone silent. Still no excuse.
He's going to need to start producing these Hobbits by July 1st, or else I may actually consider pulling out. That's something I never even thought would happen, because I love JJPs cutting edge tech & Keith Johnson's coding. The more time that goes by, on top of the realization that I won't receive my pin for at least another 6 months after production starts, is almost too much to ask. I preordered thinking "they can't possibly have the same types of production delays on the 2nd machine as they did on the first", yet here we are.
There's just so many great pins out there that I could buy & be playing right now, instead of letting my money sit for nearly a whole additional year. I've learned a lot about this hobby since I first put down that pre-order cash, and I almost have to pinch myself when I realize I'm dropping 8K+ on a pin that I haven't even played yet. And here's more food for thought......What if the rumors are true that Stern's next Ritchie/Lyman title release is Game of Thrones in the Fall? What if Hobbit production really is delayed for another 3 months from now? We could potentially have the top 2 pin manufactures both producing a Fantasy/Dragon themed pin with their best design/programming teams, on the market at the same time, at the same price point, competing for the same dollars. Interesting to say the least, and a situation I'm sure JJP would like to avoid.
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:I find the lack of updates completely unprofessional at this point. But if you have no good news to report, then I can see why they've gone silent. Still no excuse.
He's going to need to start producing these Hobbits by July 1st, or else I may actually consider pulling out. That's something I never even thought would happen, because I love JJPs cutting edge tech & Keith Johnson's coding. The more time that goes by, on top of the realization that I won't receive my pin for at least another 6 months after production starts, is almost too much to ask. I preordered thinking "they can't possibly have the same types of production delays on the 2nd machine as they did on the first", yet here we are.
There's just so many great pins out there that I could buy & be playing right now, instead of letting my money sit for nearly a whole additional year. I've learned a lot about this hobby since I first put down that pre-order cash, and I almost have to pinch myself when I realize I'm dropping 8K+ on a pin that I haven't even played yet. And here's more food for thought......What if the rumors are true that Stern's next Ritchie/Lyman title release is Game of Thrones in the Fall? What if Hobbit production really is delayed for another 3 months from now? We could potentially have the top 2 pin manufactures both producing a Fantasy/Dragon themed pin with their best design/programming teams, on the market at the same time, at the same price point, competing for the same dollars. Interesting to say the least, and a situation I'm sure JJP would like to avoid.
You should honestly bail now and buy a standard when they hit the distributors right away...or LE/SE...same deal. Pre-ordering is for suckers. You can "line-jump" easy by buying when they ship. Might cost a bit more, but you'll get it a year earlier.
Quoted from Pimp77:You should honestly bail now and buy a standard when they hit the distributors right away...or LE/SE...same deal. Pre-ordering is for suckers. You can "line-jump" easy by buying when they ship. Might cost a bit more, but you'll get it a year earlier.
You are out then?
If it wasn't for the price difference, 2000 euros price increase for the SE model, your statement would make sense.
Quoted from PinballRulez:You are out then?
If it wasn't for the price difference, 2000 euros price increase for the SE model, your statement would make sense.
No...I'm in, like you because of price. Forgot that caveat. I got it for $7500 shipped. I know people will walk up and get a Hobbit before me though. If you got in late for the same as whatever it costs now you should bail.
Quoted from Pimp77:No...I'm in, like you because of price. Forgot that caveat. I got it for $7500 shipped. I know people will walk up and get a Hobbit before me though. If you got in late for the same as whatever it costs now you should bail.
I hear you. But as said before the momentum is fading. The wait gets too long.
I bought through a distributor though, so maybe I get mine 'as planned.'
Quoted from ledge:so how often does JJP give updates, news, info and status on the hobbit? just to keep the purchasers at least up to speed on where they are at?.. you know transparency, involvement etc ? all the good things... we expect from a manufacturer.
This is my main complaint with JJP - they are very closed mouth. The wait wouldn't be so quite bad if they'd give a progress report every week or so.
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