(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update


By B9

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by GravitaR
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There are 10044 posts in this topic. You are on page 110 of 201.
#5451 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Ah balls! Confusing rules? How could that be the two "greater" coders working on the game? I guess I could just hit the flippers non stop like a 4 year old and watch the movie on the display.

it's not really a coding thing that's the problem. it's the lack of information on the playfield. Having a pretty display is all fine and good, but not having anything written on the playfield is bad. They are trying to have the display do everything, and nothing on the playfield so they have the freedom to write rules as they please. But it also assumes you know what shots are called or areas of the playfield are called. If pinball veterans can't figure it out, how the hell is someone new suppose to know what's going on?

#5452 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Thanks to you asshats constantly harping on them, there will be ZERO discussion of Pat's game. No pre-order, no info, nothing until it's ready for production.
So, yeah, awesome work guys!

Perfect!

Give it to us when she's ready to go!

#5453 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

it's not really a coding thing that's the problem. it's the lack of information on the playfield. Having a pretty display is all fine and good, but not having anything written on the playfield is bad. They are trying to have the display do everything, and nothing on the playfield so they have the freedom to write rules as they please. But it also assumes you know what shots are called or areas of the playfield are called. If pinball veterans can't figure it out, how the hell is someone new suppose to know what's going on?

Like what do you want written? I'm not sure I follow...I don't read the playfield with any game I've played or owned. I look for flashing lights, lit lights, DMD instructions. With JJP games we have LCD and colors to give us info. Give me an example from a game.

#5454 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Perfect!
Give it to us when she's ready to go!

Yep, JJP learned from Stern that it's best to just release a game and say "here it is" now that they don't need pre-order funding.

#5455 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

If pinball veterans can't figure it out, how the hell is someone new suppose to know what's going on?

I recommend waiting until the code is in some semblance of a completed state before deciding what veterans and newbies can or cannot figure out.

#5456 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

it's not really a coding thing that's the problem. it's the lack of information on the playfield. Having a pretty display is all fine and good, but not having anything written on the playfield is bad. They are trying to have the display do everything, and nothing on the playfield so they have the freedom to write rules as they please. But it also assumes you know what shots are called or areas of the playfield are called. If pinball veterans can't figure it out, how the hell is someone new suppose to know what's going on?

What's the big deal? Like any game for the most part, your never going to understand all you have to do by walking up to a new game besides shoot the flashing lights. Once you play the game a dozen times, who needs to have words written on the pf. Sounds like trying to find an excuse for not liking a game.

#5457 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

there will be ZERO discussion of Pat's game. No pre-order, no info, nothing until it's ready for production.

Awesome! That's the model that every shop should aspire towards IMHO. It's not easy in the beginning, if you can reach that stage it means you're maturing into a more stable and solid business hopefully.

#5458 4 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Thanks to you asshats constantly harping on them, there will be ZERO discussion of Pat's game. No pre-order, no info, nothing until it's ready for production.
So, yeah, awesome work guys!

Oh no!!!, ;eyeroll;

Then JJP #3 may end up being the first game jack doesn't have to lie about delivery dates on. Hurray!

But even better, that means the end of the prepay fiasco hopefully...

#5459 4 years ago

Some people just seem bitter, or immature, take your pick.

10
#5460 4 years ago

I think there is some merit to what JJP has done. Showing parts of the machine is very brave of them. It has allowed them to make changes even close to the end which has made the pin much better. It opens them up to pretty harsh critisism however. That all went along with the prepay model.
If Pats machine is the new model...ie, it's finished, and you pay for it, then there is something lost. The ability to have some changes made that might make the pin better. I understand that is the way pins were made since the 1940's, and Stern makes them that way even today, but I enjoyed some of the ideas that others that have come up with along the way with WOZ and TH. I hope the JJP team continues their open communication for game #4. Who says the old way of producing pinball machines is the right way.

#5461 4 years ago

I might be crazy but I don't mind the prepay model at all - it's an option but not mandatory. There are about 1000 WOZLE owner's that got a heck of a deal at $6,500 and the slow strip -tease revealing kind of makes things interesting. I hope it remains an option. Then again I ordered a new car once with seeing only a sketch of the tailights - maybe I really am crazy.

#5462 4 years ago

maybe I really am crazy

ISN'T EVERYONE?

#5463 4 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

I think there is some merit to what JJP has done. Showing parts of the machine is very brave of them. It has allowed them to make changes even close to the end which has made the pin much better. It opens them up to pretty harsh critisism however. That all went along with the prepay model.
If Pats machine is the new model...ie, it's finished, and you pay for it, then there is something lost. The ability to have some changes made that might make the pin better. I understand that is the way pins were made since the 1940's, and Stern makes them that way even today, but I enjoyed some of the ideas that others that have come up with along the way with WOZ and TH. I hope the JJP team continues their open communication for game #4. Who says the old way of producing pinball machines is the right way.

I agree, there is definitely a down side to announcing a pin when it's done since they can't really change/improve things at that point like they have done with TH. Still...I personally would rather see them announce the game when it's ready to go.

#5464 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I agree, there is definitely a down side to announcing a pin when it's done since they can't really change/improve things at that point like they have done with TH. Still...I personally would rather see them announce the game when it's ready to go.

But what if they did that with the hobbit this time - not sure, scratch that, I am sure I would have cancelled.

-19
#5465 4 years ago

I am compiling a list of all individuals or businesses who have placed a deposit on the Hobbit or any JJP game. We should be releasing an important Jersey Jack Pinball related website, that will help you, on through major social org (ie; twitter, facebook, etc.). The e-mail is jersey1007@cox.net. Since this is not an attack on JJP. We would like to see them succeed but do believe they have a serious money issue. We think we have the solution.

-9
#5466 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

I am compiling a list of all individuals or businesses who have placed a deposit on the Hobbit or any JJP game. We should be releasing an important Jersey Jack Pinball related website, that will help you, on through major social org (ie; twitter, facebook, etc.). The e-mail is jersey1007@cox.net. Since this is not an attack on JJP. We would like to see them succeed but do believe they have a serious money issue. We think we have the solution.

I assume you're only interested in folks who currently have money with JJP waiting for a game? Not folks who placed a deposit in the past and got their game(s)?

I think it's a good idea for an outside group to do some analysis if there is any reason for concern. Even if there is no reason for concern at all (hopefully), it's still peace of mind to know folks didn't sit around in denial for months/years when red flags should have been caught.

#5467 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

I am compiling a list of all individuals or businesses who have placed a deposit on the Hobbit or any JJP game. We should be releasing an important Jersey Jack Pinball related website, that will help you, on through major social org (ie; twitter, facebook, etc.). The e-mail is jersey1007@cox.net. Since this is not an attack on JJP. We would like to see them succeed but do believe they have a serious money issue. We think we have the solution.

Wow. Feel free to take your troll goods and move on to the next bridge...... Why is it trolls can't grasp common grammar?

#5468 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

I am compiling a list of all individuals or businesses who have placed a deposit on the Hobbit or any JJP game. We should be releasing an important Jersey Jack Pinball related website, that will help you, on through major social org (ie; twitter, facebook, etc.). The e-mail is jersey1007@cox.net. Since this is not an attack on JJP. We would like to see them succeed but do believe they have a serious money issue. We think we have the solution.

Why don't you just identify yourself, or are you going to be Anonymous Group 2.0?

#5469 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I assume you're only interested in folks who currently have money with JJP waiting for a game? Not folks who placed a deposit in the past and got their game(s)?
I think it's a good idea for an outside group to do some analysis if there is any reason for concern. Even if there is no reason for concern at all (hopefully), it's still peace of mind to know folks didn't sit around in denial for months/years when red flags should have been caught.

Don't listen to anything the troll has to say. Just look at the info below from other threads he's posted in since joining Pinside. Reported again. The account should be banned.

1234.JPG
123.JPG

-2
#5470 4 years ago

Why? Did Jersey Jack hire Kevin Koolaid as the new CFO?

Quoted from sj1000:

I am compiling a list of all individuals or businesses who have placed a deposit on the Hobbit or any JJP game. We should be releasing an important Jersey Jack Pinball related website, that will help you, on through major social org (ie; twitter, facebook, etc.). The e-mail is jersey1007@cox.net. Since this is not an attack on JJP. We would like to see them succeed but do believe they have a serious money issue. We think we have the solution.

#5471 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

I am compiling a list of all individuals or businesses who have placed a deposit on the Hobbit or any JJP game. We should be releasing an important Jersey Jack Pinball related website, that will help you, on through major social org (ie; twitter, facebook, etc.). The e-mail is jersey1007@cox.net. Since this is not an attack on JJP. We would like to see them succeed but do believe they have a serious money issue. We think we have the solution.

WOW, just as I thought it couldn't get any worse........the BS I mean..........

-21
#5472 4 years ago

Thank you, for the post. I am interested in anyone that has purchased for JJP but have a lot of that information. I would encourage e-mails from existing customers. We have already received activity from the last post. The goal is everyone receives their machine at a time promised by the company without excuses.

#5473 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

I am compiling a list of all individuals or businesses who have placed a deposit on the Hobbit or any JJP game. We should be releasing an important Jersey Jack Pinball related website, that will help you, on through major social org (ie; twitter, facebook, etc.). The e-mail is jersey1007@cox.net. Since this is not an attack on JJP. We would like to see them succeed but do believe they have a serious money issue. We think we have the solution.

Before you come on here and bring this fluff, donate to Pinside. If you want to help me with my money, donate and keep my favorite site alive.

-18
#5474 4 years ago

You can discount my creditability all you want. beneficially, I am a stakeholder in the company. Rather than abusing me through your blogs why don't you e-mail me. Panzerfreak could you identify yourself. In the other placed I have communicated or blogged the response has indicated a much higher intellect of responses. TrollJD

#5475 4 years ago

"I'm compiling a list of individuals and/or businesses that have purchased and/or played a Stern or Williams machine in the last 20 years. We are releasing an important website that will help you. Please send your name, address, SSN, birthdate, and bank account numbers to getreadytobe@screwed.com. Please ignore any subsequent drops in your FICO score."

If you have any evidence, please feel free to share it.

18
#5476 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

You can discount my creditability all you want.

Done.

creditability.jpg

-3
#5477 4 years ago

No I did not

-13
#5478 4 years ago

As you see in these blog I(we) are pro pinball. We forged a relationship financially and otherwise with the company and founder... We actually thought we were helping the industry.

We want to see that anyone who has put a deposit with JJP gets a game or their money back. I assume the inflammatory bloggers have no skin in the game or are just minions. Let their be no illusion we are here to help and will relentlessly continue.

We have games available for purchase but you do not have to put down a deposit and hope to get a game. You pay only when it is built.

#5479 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

As you see in these blog I(we) are pro pinball. We forged a relationship financially and otherwise with the company and founder... We actually thought we were helping the industry.
We want to see that anyone who has put a deposit with JJP gets a game or their money back. I assume the inflammatory bloggers have no skin in the game or are just minions. Let their be no illusion we are here to help and will relentlessly continue.
We have games available for purchase but you do not have to put down a deposit and hope to get a game. You pay only when it is built.

Hi
If this were true, it appears you would be in gross violation of your non-disclosure terms with Jersey Jack Pinball.

#5480 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

Let their be no illusion we are here to help and will relentlessly continue.

Not as ironic as Razorbak's quote and correction, nor as witty, without Google image, but it's "Let THERE be no illusion..." Not "their."

#5481 4 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Like what do you want written? I'm not sure I follow...I don't read the playfield with any game I've played or owned. I look for flashing lights, lit lights, DMD instructions. With JJP games we have LCD and colors to give us info. Give me an example from a game.

it's like this. Like when you're playing LOTR. DMD displays shoot the shire. If shire wasn't written on the playfield, how do you know what the hell to shoot for? It would be nice if extra ball, mode start and basic stuff like that was written on the playfield, so you know where those shots are. Lock is written in the ramp but it doesn't seem like a lit insert. Seems like background GI lighting more than something you have to acknowledge as telling you something.

#5482 4 years ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

What's the big deal? Like any game for the most part, your never going to understand all you have to do by walking up to a new game besides shoot the flashing lights. Once you play the game a dozen times, who needs to have words written on the pf. Sounds like trying to find an excuse for not liking a game.

At least when you walk up to something like TZ. Before you even start the game. You look over the playfield you can see. Lock arrow is here, extra ball is here. You walk up to hobbit and you can't tell jack shit about anything. Nothing is labelled. You have no idea what a red arrow means, what a green arrow means. And you sure the hell are not going to tell anything before even starting the game.

-11
#5483 4 years ago

Join... I can show you where to find a significant amount of more detailed information regarding JJP in the public domain, but this is not a anti JJP thread. We would actually prefer the company to stay intact.

Rick... Thank you for the correction, but my point remains.

I do have a question for Jack G....Will you make a real statement to your customers and constituents regarding the Hobbit and its delays? What do you have to lose it is common knowledge that the LE WOZ was delayed for the same reason.

By the way, the blogger goofing about Stern. They seem to be expanding, releasing many games and don't have to apologize to their customers. Part of JJP is Jack G's service business that sells or has sold their games.

I am not really a fan of Stern but it is the only game manufacturer that I would buy a game from right now without fear of the company disappearing. Their games have improved recently. I own around 10 of them.

#5484 4 years ago

I dunno, if you guys are happy with the zero info model, great.

Personally I like hearing about development progress, but then I also understand the process and don't expect it to be perfect or finished during the process.

#5485 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Don't listen to anything the troll has to say. Just look at the info below from other threads he's posted in since joining Pinside. Reported again. The account should be banned.
This image got 1 "unsafe" tag and has ben hidden automatically, per your settings. un-hide1234.JPG (Click image to enlarge) 1
123.JPG (Click image to enlarge)

Whether you have an issue with this particular person or not, why would you be so strongly against some outside party doing some investigation in order to make consumers aware of any risk here? I think there is significant risk right now and it is certainly not being made known to pre-order folks. It's just hard to imagine how JJP cannot be deep in the red with all of the significant delays and rework to games.

-2
#5486 4 years ago

PanzerFreak-again I thank you for the images. I suggest that bloggers read the posts in the images. There is not a false or inappropriate statement in my blogs. I e-mailed you privately but you have not responded. Are you suggesting that I should not be allowed the freedom of speech guaranteed in America.

I have a real interest in the Hobbit update.

Pinball is a dying industry. I have been an advocate to keep it alive. I put my money behind my efforts.

I am working on a deal that could place up to 5,000 machines in 50 states. I only wish JJP could execute. Originally my intention was for the JJP machines.

#5487 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Whether you have an issue with this particular person or not, why would you be so strongly against some outside party doing some investigation in order to make consumers aware of any risk here? I think there is significant risk right now and it is certainly not being made known to pre-order folks. It's just hard to imagine how JJP cannot be deep in the red with all of the significant delays and rework to games.

Im not understanding why they would be in the red?
Most of the 1500 Sold Hobbits are prepaid for in full already.
1500x$8000 ( average cost on a Hobbit/LE/SE)
$12,000,000 in revenue..

-4
#5488 4 years ago

I am not a true blogger. Is troll a blog term or am I being slandered.

#5489 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

Are you suggesting that I should not be allowed the freedom of speech guaranteed in America.
.

I was assuming from the fractured nature of your postings that you were NOT American (or at least NOT a native English speaker).

And that may also explain your misunderstand of "freedom of speech." In America, the 1st amendment guarantees that freedom of speech may not be abridged by GOVERNMENT..... As such, there is no freedom of speech on a private discussion forum like pinside.

#5490 4 years ago
Quoted from Join_The_Cirqus:

Im not understanding why they would be in the red?
Most of the 1500 Sold Hobbits are prepaid for in full already.
1500x$8000 ( average cost on a Hobbit/LE/SE)
$12,000,000 in revenue..

I highly doubt the distributors who have Hobbit on order are paid in full (which probably accounts for the majority of the games). No way. But aside from that, it has already been 2 and a half years since the announcement of Hobbit and the start of taking pre-orders. How many people at JJP are salaried employees and what would your guess of average salary be? How many hourly workers are there? How much does a factory of that size cost monthly to keep open? How much money is spent on marketing, travel, WOZ warranty support, etc. etc.? How much profit do you think JJP can make on any one game? I think they probably lost money on the 1000 ECLE WOZ's (especially considering the number that were sold at the initial $6500 price point.) Considering how efficient and disciplined (particularly on BOM cost) Stern has had to become to turn a profit (much less stay alive) I just can't see how JJP is not struggling financially.

In the end, all I'm saying is it would be nice for some industry veterans to do some analysis based on their own experience and try to quantify just how real the risk is for customers.

#5491 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

I am not a true blogger. Is troll a blog term or am I being slandered.

#5492 4 years ago

I remember in the early days of WOZ we saw many pictures of the assembly line being set up which seemed to take several months. Parts lined up at different "stations". A wiring harness diagram for the game. Employees getting trained. We got to see the assembly line itself come together which was pretty cool.

Has anyone seen any picture(s) of the assembly line for Hobbit coming together? I'm assuming they've at least started setting up the assembly line, no?

#5493 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I highly doubt the distributors who have Hobbit on order are paid in full (which probably accounts for the majority of the games). No way. But aside from that, it has already been 2 and a half years since the announcement of Hobbit and the start of taking pre-orders. How many people at JJP are salaried employees and what would your guess of average salary be? How many hourly workers are there? How much does a factory of that size cost monthly to keep open? How much money is spent on marketing, travel, WOZ warranty support, etc. etc.? How much profit do you think JJP can make on any one game? I think they probably lost money on the 1000 ECLE WOZ's (especially considering the number that were sold at the initial $6500 price point.) Considering how efficient and disciplined (particularly on BOM cost) Stern has had to become to turn a profit (much less stay alive) I just can't see how JJP is not struggling financially.
In the end, all I'm saying is it would be nice for some industry veterans to do some analysis based on their own experience and try to quantify just how real the risk is for customers.

Not sure there is a need to do a risk analysis.

Of course there is risk and it gets higher as more time goes by.

If people don't like risk, simple, don't pre-order! Instead do the crazy thing of buying a game when it's available and in stock

13
#5494 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

Is troll a blog term or am I being slandered.

It's both. Better get your e-lawyer ready.

#5495 4 years ago

...and here I thought there was Hobbit news. Guess not. Just another idiot with nothing to add to a thread. (that's you, sj1000)

-1
#5496 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:

...and here I thought there was Hobbit news. Guess not. Just another idiot with nothing to add to a thread. (that's you, sj1000)

Well, at least he's getting good tech support help from Lloyd on his WOZ LE issues...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-rant#post-2392753

Lloyd's a better man that me.

#5497 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

I highly doubt the distributors who have Hobbit on order are paid in full (which probably accounts for the majority of the games). No way. But aside from that, it has already been 2 and a half years since the announcement of Hobbit and the start of taking pre-orders. How many people at JJP are salaried employees and what would your guess of average salary be? How many hourly workers are there? How much does a factory of that size cost monthly to keep open? How much money is spent on marketing, travel, WOZ warranty support, etc. etc.? How much profit do you think JJP can make on any one game? I think they probably lost money on the 1000 ECLE WOZ's (especially considering the number that were sold at the initial $6500 price point.) Considering how efficient and disciplined (particularly on BOM cost) Stern has had to become to turn a profit (much less stay alive) I just can't see how JJP is not struggling financially.
In the end, all I'm saying is it would be nice for some industry veterans to do some analysis based on their own experience and try to quantify just how real the risk is for customers.

I think we are all old and wise enough to do that analysis ourselves.

#5498 4 years ago

Lloyd is a decent person.

#5499 4 years ago
Quoted from sj1000:

I am not a true blogger. Is troll a blog term or am I being slandered.

On Pinside its a term or endearment. Just carry on....or better yet, not.

#5500 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Whether you have an issue with this particular person or not, why would you be so strongly against some outside party doing some investigation in order to make consumers aware of any risk here? I think there is significant risk right now and it is certainly not being made known to pre-order folks. It's just hard to imagine how JJP cannot be deep in the red with all of the significant delays and rework to games.

Jack brought on an outside investor. Liquidity shouldn't be a problem.

They probably won't be profitable till the 3rd game.

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