(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update


By B9

5 years ago



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#5301 4 years ago

You know what I've realized bugs me about this machine? It's the symmetrical metal ramps all centered at the top. Every time I see the game my brain connects them like the ball is going to just shoot up one and back down the other, and it creates this illusion that there's less to shoot at than there really is.

I think it's part of the reason the game feels kind of empty. That, combined with the popups that are invisible until they're in action gives this impression that there's just nothing to really shoot at. It's not really true, but it *looks* like it when you just glance at the game.

I shot the game at Expo, but it was set to one ball and I drained quickly and just walked away. Wasn't really compelled to play it more at the time.

I'm pretty curious to get another chance with all the changes and some real code. No question the playfield redesign is a vast improvement over the original, it looks 200% better than it did at Expo.

#5302 4 years ago

Ok this is friggin night and day over what was sitting in Chicago last fall! If this keeps going it is a must have pin, and already i"m liking what I see over LOTR. There is nothing really here yet with the dropping targets etc. and I do not agree with anyone that thinks this is going to be a "slow" game. Remember this is a wide body!

#5303 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I do not agree with anyone that thinks this is going to be a "slow" game. Remember this is a wide body!

Full Throttle is a fast game too, maybe we're entering an era where widebodies will lose their "slow" reputation.

#5304 4 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

If you watch closely you can see that some of the lighting effects (orange) represent fire coming from the dragon's mouth. The eyes on the dragon head light and then the inserts light up in orange in the direction in which the head is facing. So, in the video this is mostly down the left side but at one point (0.38-0.39) the head is facing across the playfield towards the upper right and you can see the same lighting effect going in a different direction. Pretty clever really.

Excellent job picking this up! I also noticed that when Smaug is breathing fire that a flame animation rolls across the book LCD. I can only imagine how this "fire breathing orange insert effect" will look in a darkened room when fully implemented.

#5305 4 years ago

Pintastic New England has teamed up with Project Pinball and Jersey Jack Pinball to bring you the first ever JJP Sweepstakes! You have a 1 and 200 chance to win a brand new Hobbit Standard or WOZ Standard. It's your choice! Greatest thing about this is we can put as many WOZ into New England children's hospital as we can.

Winners will be drawn live at Pintadtic New England on July 11th at 5pm! It took a lot of work but it was a labor of love for us. We would like to give a huge thank you to my good friend Jack Guarneiri!

Click here to enter www.pintasticnewengland.com/win-a-new-pinball-machine-.html

#5306 4 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

Excellent job picking this up! I also noticed that when Smaug is breathing fire that a flame animation rolls across the book LCD. I can only imagine how this "fire breathing orange insert effect" will look in a darkened room when fully implemented.

I can imagine Keith making the shots illuminated in Smaug's fire breath as negative point shots (i.e. You want to avoid being turned into toast.)

I can't wait to see how he is going to program all of this. This may well turn out to be Keith's magnum opus.

#5307 4 years ago

You know what's funny is watching this new video, you barely notice the axes that are still too big and not necessary at all now with so much going on.

#5308 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

You know what's funny is watching this new video, you barely notice the axes that are still too big and not necessary at all now with so much going on.

True, but I hope they shrink them a tad and leave them on

#5309 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

They need this guy ... » YouTube video

Not too shaby, a little more raspy old guy-ness to that voice and it's spot on.

#5310 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

"Let's take it from the top", "Give me a Gandalf Suuupper Jackpot callout and add a little crazy laugh to the end of it".

Come on now..... That's not Gandalf! Someone needs to watch and play Lord of the Rings again.

#5311 4 years ago

I got 4 plays in on Hobbit over the weekend at MGC and really enjoyed the game and where it's heading. Here's a list of the positives and negatives of my current thoughts on the game.

I'll start with the non-gameplay items.
Positives:
1. The quality of the display and the animations are sick! This game was sitting directly next to a WOZRR and the quality of the graphics and the way it is utilized made WOZ look outdated. It was a joy just to watch the display waiting in line as others' played.
2. The sounds are a huge step up from WOZ as well. Music and sound effects just sounded way more full and less annoying.
3. The game itself is beautiful all around and the LED's look great as do the LED effects.. Just feels solid and of high quality. The insert lighting doesn't seem as impressive as on WOZ but is still impressive. GI Lighting is a huge step forward. I also liked the look of the trim.

Negatives:
Honestly, There aren't really any negatives in the looks, sound, music dept. especially since the software is nowhere near completion. If I had to pick one thing I didn't really care for the axes on the slingshots.

Now for the gameplay
Positives
1. The pop up targets and the way they are implemented is really cool and unlike anything we have ever seen before. They react from even glancing blows from the front or rear and feel completely different from pop up targets on MM or XMen.
2. If you like shooting drop targets than this game is for you. It's definitely more of a shooter's game than a flow game.
3. The central fishtales ramp/captive ball/diverter in the middle is a welcome change from traditional layouts. Ramp shots feel good to hit although they are often blocked by the pop up targets.

Negatives
1. When you play you honestly forget the the upper right flipper is even there. I did have the Windlace hold the ball in the left outlane (and fired with the fire button on the lockdown bar) which fires the ball towards that flipper for a one-timer but other than that it just doesn't seem that important.
2. Playfield does seem enormous and gameplay isn't that fast or punishing. Ball times are way longer than WOZ and you usually have plenty of time to react to shots. I think it would be a better game as a standard body vs. widebody. The saving grace is the pop-ups in this situation as they actually give you something in that vast openness to shoot for.

3. The entire upper right quadrant of the playfield seems like kind of a waste. There's really just a target and shot into the bumpers and a VUK to shoot. The bag end video screen looked nice but I honestly didn't ever look at it while I was playing. Game could have used a unique toy/target/ramp in this area for sure.

Overall I liked the game though primarily for the fact that it is unique and different and will no doubt have an awesome rule-set to go along with a great theme/art/sound/video package. It's the same reason I like WOZ. I think once it's complete I'll like it more than WOZ since the theme is better and because I prefer having lots of drops/pop-ups to upper playfields. It's a target game with some flow which is nice to see for a change vs. just a fast/flow game like Stern usually releases.

I would most likely never spend $8K plus on a pin but if I came into a windfall of money and could justify spending that kind of cash on a single pin I would buy a Hobbit way before buying a PPS remake or a Stern LE. It just feels like you get more for your money and the long term play-ability will be there with Keefer on software duty. On the contrary if I had to choose between the Hobbit and 2 Stern Pro's I would probably take the 2 Stern Pro's. It would be a tougher decision between Hobbit and TBL for me but I still think I would lean towards Hobbit just because i think it will be the more challenging pin long term. Bottom line is that it's a cool and unique pin and I look forward to playing it more in the future!

#5312 4 years ago
Quoted from cscmtp:

That did NOT look like a slow or boring pin to me! Probably most exciting video I've seen to date. Definitely encouraged!

Sadly, it's another video that focuses on a multiball mode, which by its very nature is going to look less slow and boring.

I want this game to kick ass too, but single ball (which would be your standard mode) needs to be exciting too. (Read as : And I hope it is!)

I was also very encouraged until it dawned on me that I was watching another multiball video. It does look good though with multiball running.

23
#5313 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

There is nothing really here yet with the dropping targets etc.

I totally agree. We've really seen nothing on how the drop targets will be coded & utilized for the different modes, other than this old test mode video.

I just don't buy the argument that there's just nothing to shoot at on this pin. It's an absurd statement to me.

There are 3 banks of 11 individually controlled drop targets, with standup targets behind them. These can be controlled as an actual target, or can be programmed to popup & block your shot at the targets behind them. They can also block your shot to the VUKs. As seen in the test video, they can move extremely fast. One single drop can dart quickly across the playfield as an incredibly difficult target to hit for a skill shot. The variations are endless, and will provide COUNTLESS unique shots for the modes, depending on how they're programmed.

There are 2 spinner loops, 2 ramps, 2 VUKs and 1 captive ball....all which have both arrow & scroll inserts which can be lit for different mode shots. There potential there for multiple modes running & stacking. Similar to LOTR, you can start a mode, and then be required to hit multiple specific ramps, VUKs, etc to score jackpots & complete the mode, or make a shot to extend the mode timer.

Then there's the 4 popup targets, which can be used for timed hurry up shots, or popup randomly to block your shots to the ramps, drops, etc. There's huge potential there, especially when used in conjunction with the controlled drop targets. There's also the 4 lock rollovers, which can be programmed to light as specific targets, in addition to lighting the ball locks. There's also the mystery standup target, and also the shot into Bag End & the pops. Don't forget about the kickback either, and how it may be integrated with a shot to the upper right flipper for a Smaug killshot.

Plus Smaug should have a part in controlling the loop ramp diverter, the 2 magnets at the top of the loops, and the subway underneath to work against you to interfere with your shots, or randomly effect where the ball will appear.

And we just heard about the Ring Button, which will add even more depth to helping complete your shots and launching the windlance.

Sorry for running on......but to me, this pin has the potential to be the ultimate shooting man's pin, with an incredible depth of shot variations. By my count there are nearly 40 individual targets to shoot in this game. How is that nothing to shoot at? I guess if there was a simple big Smaug bash toy some would be happier. But that's not me. I'm a thinking man who loves a challenge. Give me a variety of targets. I find the thought of being under pressure to make all these different shots exciting! I love machines that put my meager skills to the test, provide incredible depth of play. It can kick my ass & keeps me coming back for more. And if there's a mythical hidden mode on the Hobbit like Valinor Multiball, then I'll never get rid of my machine until I reach it.

To me this much is clear......The Hobbit is going to be an incredibly unique & challenging experience. Keith has to be thrilled to get another chance to dive into Middle Earth, and create an experience that surpasses his outstanding work on LOTR. The first shipment can't come soon enough. Keep up the good work JJP!

20
#5314 4 years ago

Ted Estes just indicated that the guy from the video (I posted earlier) is on the audition list and is being considered for the voice talent for the callouts. Yeah!

#5315 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Ok this is friggin night and day over what was sitting in Chicago last fall! If this keeps going it is a must have pin, and already i"m liking what I see over LOTR. There is nothing really here yet with the dropping targets etc. and I do not agree with anyone that thinks this is going to be a "slow" game. Remember this is a wide body!

I only call it slow because the guys who brought the prototype to MGC put the slope at 2 degrees

#5316 4 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I totally agree. We've really seen nothing on how the drop targets will be coded & utilized for the different modes, other than this old test mode video.
» YouTube video
I just don't buy the argument that there's just nothing to shoot at on this pin. It's an absurd statement to me.
There are 3 banks of 11 individually controlled drop targets, with standup targets behind them. These can be controlled as an actual target, or can be programmed to popup & block your shot at the targets behind them. They can also block your shot to the VUKs. As seen in the test video, they can move extremely fast. One single drop can dart quickly across the playfield as an incredibly difficult target to hit for a skill shot. The variations are endless, and will provide COUNTLESS unique shots for the modes, depending on how they're programmed.
There are 2 spinner loops, 2 ramps, 2 VUKs and 1 captive ball....all which have both arrow & scroll inserts which can be lit for different mode shots. There potential there for multiple modes running & stacking. Similar to LOTR, you can start a mode, and then be required to hit multiple specific ramps, VUKs, etc to score jackpots & complete the mode, or make a shot to extend the mode timer.
Then there's the 4 popup targets, which can be used for timed hurry up shots, or popup randomly to block your shots to the ramps, drops, etc. There's huge potential there, especially when used in conjunction with the controlled drop targets. There's also the 4 lock rollovers, which can be programmed to light as specific targets, in addition to lighting the ball locks. There's also the mystery standup target, and also the shot into Bag End & the pops. Don't forget about the kickback either, and how it may be integrated with a shot to the upper right flipper for a Smaug killshot.
Plus Smaug should have a part in controlling the loop ramp diverter, the 2 magnets at the top of the loops, and the subway underneath to work against you to interfere with your shots, or randomly effect where the ball will appear.
And we just heard about the Ring Button, which will add even more depth to helping complete your shots and launching the windlance.
Sorry for running on......but to me, this pin has the potential to be the ultimate shooting man's pin, with an incredible depth of shot variations. By my count there are nearly 40 individual targets to shoot in this game. How is that nothing to shoot at? I guess if there was a simple big Smaug bash toy some would be happier. But that's not me. I'm a thinking man who loves a challenge. Give me a variety of targets. I find the thought of being under pressure to make all these different shots exciting! I love machines that put my meager skills to the test, provide incredible depth of play. It can kick my ass & keeps me coming back for more. And if there's a mythical hidden mode on the Hobbit like Valinor Multiball, then I'll never get rid of my machine until I reach it.
To me this much is clear......The Hobbit is going to be an incredibly unique & challenging experience. Keith has to be thrilled to get another chance to dive into Middle Earth, and create an experience that surpasses his outstanding work on LOTR. The first shipment can't come soon enough. Keep up the good work JJP!

1000 thumbs up for that! You must have wrote that from reading my mind in some weird way.

#5317 4 years ago

Just out of curiosity, how open is the code for JJP's machines? For example, if one of my friends thinks he can do a better Smaug voice could I swap out the audio files for the callouts with my own custom ones?

#5318 4 years ago

How about a burst of hot air shot at you from the back box when Smaug blows fire. That would be a cool effect.

You could give that top center insert a purpose on the game unless there is some surprise already planned for that area.

-13
#5319 4 years ago

Why on Earth does everyone think 30 modes will be so awesome? 30 modes of the same handful of shots over and over again. There's only so much you can do with minimal things to shoot at. They need to completely scrap the whole upper right of the game. I know it will never happen but it should have when the game was on the drawing board and the first "the upper flipper is useless" remark went up waaaaaaaaay back at the beginning. That's been IGNORED since day one… why??? OR why not put something on the left for it to shoot at like a scoop, Troll, ramp anything?

Right now its a mess; useless flipper, some pop bumpers, a hole and an LCD book that is completely redundant (gobs of info already on giant LCD).

I know that making pinball is "HARD" but Jack had feedback from the start about these issues and IGNORED them. Adding more lights, video and sound makes a turd shinier but its still a turd.

12
#5320 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Why on Earth does everyone think 30 modes will be so awesome?

Due to JJP having two of the best programmers in the industry working on the code for The Hobbit. Keith Johnson and Ted Estes.

#5321 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Why on Earth does everyone think 30 modes will be so awesome?

I certainly agree that simply having more modes doesn't mean it will be awesome. It totally depends on how they are implemented, including things like stacking strategy etc.

ST has 18 modes, and that's too many for me...at least with the way they are set up on ST as most of them feel the same.

#5322 4 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I just don't buy the argument that there's just nothing to shoot at on this pin. It's an absurd statement to me.
There are 3 banks of 11 individually controlled drop targets, with standup targets behind them. These can be controlled as an actual target, or can be programmed to popup & block your shot at the targets behind them. They can also block your shot to the VUKs. As seen in the test video, they can move extremely fast. One single drop can dart quickly across the playfield as an incredibly difficult target to hit for a skill shot. The variations are endless, and will provide COUNTLESS unique shots for the modes, depending on how they're programmed.
There are 2 spinner loops, 2 ramps, 2 VUKs and 1 captive ball....all which have both arrow & scroll inserts which can be lit for different mode shots. There potential there for multiple modes running & stacking. Similar to LOTR, you can start a mode, and then be required to hit multiple specific ramps, VUKs, etc to score jackpots & complete the mode, or make a shot to extend the mode timer.
Then there's the 4 popup targets, which can be used for timed hurry up shots, or popup randomly to block your shots to the ramps, drops, etc. There's huge potential there, especially when used in conjunction with the controlled drop targets. There's also the 4 lock rollovers, which can be programmed to light as specific targets, in addition to lighting the ball locks. There's also the mystery standup target, and also the shot into Bag End & the pops. Don't forget about the kickback either, and how it may be integrated with a shot to the upper right flipper for a Smaug killshot.
Plus Smaug should have a part in controlling the loop ramp diverter, the 2 magnets at the top of the loops, and the subway underneath to work against you to interfere with your shots, or randomly effect where the ball will appear.
And we just heard about the Ring Button, which will add even more depth to helping complete your shots and launching the windlance.
Sorry for running on......but to me, this pin has the potential to be the ultimate shooting man's pin, with an incredible depth of shot variations. By my count there are nearly 40 individual targets to shoot in this game. How is that nothing to shoot at? I guess if there was a simple big Smaug bash toy some would be happier. But that's not me. I'm a thinking man who loves a challenge. Give me a variety of targets. I find the thought of being under pressure to make all these different shots exciting! I love machines that put my meager skills to the test, provide incredible depth of play. It can kick my ass & keeps me coming back for more. And if there's a mythical hidden mode on the Hobbit like Valinor Multiball, then I'll never get rid of my machine until I reach it.
To me this much is clear......The Hobbit is going to be an incredibly unique & challenging experience. Keith has to be thrilled to get another chance to dive into Middle Earth, and create an experience that surpasses his outstanding work on LOTR. The first shipment can't come soon enough. Keep up the good work JJP!

Very well spoken

#5323 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Why on Earth does everyone think 30 modes will be so awesome? 30 modes of the same handful of shots over and over again. There's only so much you can do with minimal things to shoot at. They need to completely scrap the whole upper right of the game. I know it will never happen but it should have when the game was on the drawing board and the first "the upper flipper is useless" remark went up waaaaaaaaay back at the beginning. That's been IGNORED since day one… why??? OR why not put something on the left for it to shoot at like a scoop, Troll, ramp anything?
Right now its a mess; useless flipper, some pop bumpers, a hole and an LCD book that is completely redundant (gobs of info already on giant LCD).
I know that making pinball is "HARD" but Jack had feedback from the start about these issues and IGNORED them. Adding more lights, video and sound makes a turd shinier but its still a turd.

You must be living in the perfect world. Good for you

#5324 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I certainly agree that simply having more modes doesn't mean it will be awesome. It totally depends on how they are implemented, including things like stacking strategy etc.
ST has 18 modes, and that's too many for me...at least with the way they are set up on ST as most of them feel the same.

I hear ya. Even though Star Trek has 18 modes they seem like 6 with multiple levels that require more shots to be hit. I believe that each of the levels share the same music and dots? If the Hobbit has 30 unique modes for different film events that would be huge and keep the game interesting regardless of the mode you are playing.

From Ted Estes regarding Hobbit rule design.

"The grid in the middle of the screen keeps track of the 31 "Book Modes", each of which is tied to a scene in one of the three movies."

Also, Keith and Ted really know how to create modes that are more then your typical "hit this shot 4 times", then "hit this shot 8 times" type of modes. Keith has proven that pinball modes have the ability to tell a themes story and make a player feel like they are on a quest.

13
#5325 4 years ago

After doing some more thinking, there's even more skill shot possibilities right off the ball plunger. A strong pull could hit one of the moving DWARF drop targets, or go into the LT VUK. You could time your plunger pull to hit one of the moving popups. Or a soft plunger pull could roll across all four rollover locks right off the bat. And that's before the game has even started.

And I'm sure that the power of the windlance can be adjusted by programming, so that the ball can be shot at the MAN drop targets or the RT VUK. As for that "useless" RT upper flipper, it's clear that a powered up windlance shot can get the ball up to that flipper, then across to the DWARF drop targets.

So imagine that the Smaug killshot is ready & the windlance is loaded. 4 of the 5 DWARF targets are up & moving back & forth, simulating Smaug's exposed scale & leaving a single standup target exposed. The lower flippers have been disabled. The playfield is dark, Smaug is taunting you, breathing fire all across the playfield. The shaker kit is rumbling, the sound & music are booming. The timer is counting down. You have one chance to launch the ball up to the RT upper flipper & make the killshot, or the ball will drain. Talk about pressure! And how satisfying would making that shot be for the player? Perhaps one of the most satisfying in pinball.

When I look at this playfield I see so much potential. This game is going to be a home run.

#5326 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballBeerGuy:

Just out of curiosity, how open is the code for JJP's machines? For example, if one of my friends thinks he can do a better Smaug voice could I swap out the audio files for the callouts with my own custom ones?

Or you could be a really nice "buddy" and send him down to record for JJP

#5327 4 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

After doing some more thinking, there's even more skill shot possibilities right off the ball plunger. A strong pull could hit one of the moving DWARF drop targets, or go into the LT VUK. You could time your plunger pull to hit one of the moving popups. Or a soft plunger pull could roll across all four rollover locks right off the bat. And that's before the game has even started.
And I'm sure that the power of the windlance can be adjusted by programming, so that the ball can be shot at the MAN drop targets or the RT VUK. As for that "useless" RT upper flipper, it's clear that a powered up windlance shot can get the ball up to that flipper, then across to the DWARF drop targets.
So imagine that the Smaug killshot is ready & the windlance is loaded. 4 of the 5 DWARF targets are up & moving back & forth, simulating Smaug's exposed scale & leaving a single standup target exposed. The lower flippers have been disabled. The playfield is dark, Smaug is taunting you, breathing fire all across the playfield. The shaker kit is rumbling, the sound & music are booming. The timer is counting down. You have one chance to launch the ball up to the RT upper flipper & make the killshot, or the ball will drain. Talk about pressure! And how satisfying would making that shot be for the player? Perhaps one of the most satisfying in pinball.
When I look at this playfield I see so much potential. This game is going to be a home run.

#5328 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Ted Estes just indicated that the guy from the video (I posted earlier) is on the audition list and is being considered for the voice talent for the callouts. Yeah!

Awesome! Made my day!!

#5329 4 years ago

Are there any good combo shots to be made in this game?

#5330 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Are there any good combo shots to be made in this game?

Please HoakyPoaky take it away

#5331 4 years ago
Quoted from PinChili:

Are there any good combo shots to be made in this game?

Orbit shot, then shot to right or left ramp, and then back to opposite ramp.

-2
#5332 4 years ago

20 months ago.jpg

The upper flipper(s).

Useless then…

Useless now.

#5333 4 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

After doing some more thinking, there's even more skill shot possibilities right off the ball plunger. A strong pull could hit one of the moving DWARF drop targets, or go into the LT VUK. You could time your plunger pull to hit one of the moving popups. Or a soft plunger pull could roll across all four rollover locks right off the bat. And that's before the game has even started.
And I'm sure that the power of the windlance can be adjusted by programming, so that the ball can be shot at the MAN drop targets or the RT VUK. As for that "useless" RT upper flipper, it's clear that a powered up windlance shot can get the ball up to that flipper, then across to the DWARF drop targets.
So imagine that the Smaug killshot is ready & the windlance is loaded. 4 of the 5 DWARF targets are up & moving back & forth, simulating Smaug's exposed scale & leaving a single standup target exposed. The lower flippers have been disabled. The playfield is dark, Smaug is taunting you, breathing fire all across the playfield. The shaker kit is rumbling, the sound & music are booming. The timer is counting down. You have one chance to launch the ball up to the RT upper flipper & make the killshot, or the ball will drain. Talk about pressure! And how satisfying would making that shot be for the player? Perhaps one of the most satisfying in pinball.
When I look at this playfield I see so much potential. This game is going to be a home run.

I talked to Chris at the Hobbit booth at MGC and several of those skillshots including having the ball roll over the 4 lock targets are in the works. -None of them were present in the MGC game however.

The Windlace is also partially programmed at this time. The post will pop up and hold the ball and you can launch it up to the UR flipper for a one timer. In the two times that I attempted it though it wasn't a smooth feed up the right orbit and down to the flipper though.-You had to hit it on the fly which wasn't easy! It would be cool if there was a way to dial in the strength via a power meter on the display where you could charge it up by holding and releasing the lockdown button. I doubt they'll ever disable the lower flippers in any mode due to the unreliability of any mechanical ball shooter. Unfortunately I think the UR flipper will continue to be mostly an afterthought.-similar to how it is on WOZ. Not totally worthless but only used sparingly.

#5334 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

... but it should have when the game was on the drawing board and the first "the upper flipper is useless" remark went up waaaaaaaaay back at the beginning. That's been IGNORED since day one… why??? OR why not put something on the left for it to shoot at like a scoop, Troll, ramp anything?
Right now its a mess; useless flipper ...

He does make a good point. There should be something to regularly aim at with that top flipper. Perhaps it is coming in the code, but I don't see it. With WOZ, there are shots from that top right flipper that are difficult but only possible from that flipper (i.e. into the haunted forest) and shots that are best taken from that flipper (i.e. the witch). I don't see that in Hobbit ... but I trust that Keith will find a way to incorporate the flipper somehow. He deserves the benefit of the doubt here.

#5335 4 years ago

It would have been nice when the upper flipper had his own shots. But maybe when 'trolls' are up, some targets cant be reached with the normal flippers.

Then you will need that upper flipper.

--

Dont think i agree with the enourmous amount of shots. I agree the drops will give challenging shots, time and time again.

But then.... Thats it. 2 identical ramps, next to each other. Then a newton ball in the middle. Those 3 shots are on about the same shot. From either flipper.

Left part is only drops. 1 vuk shot and thats it. With a standard loopshot on the side.

Right part. No drops, instead we get a hole into the pops. Again the same vuk shot. And the same standard loopshot on the side.

Every shot is easely made, with almost no risc when missing.

Middle part, both sides the same again. We have trolls, which are standing in front of other shots, like the ramps. So again, all 4 troll shots we already have.

Only the drops, if coded well which i think they will, will be challenging and satisfying shots.

I still think this will be of of the best pins ever, due to the whole package. But lay out wise it could have been so much better. This lay out lacks fantasy for a theme like The Hobbit.

#5336 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

He does make a good point. There should be something to regularly aim at with that top flipper. Perhaps it is coming in the code, but I don't see it. With WOZ, there are shots from that top right flipper that are difficult but only possible from that flipper (i.e. into the haunted forest) and shots that are best taken from that flipper (i.e. the witch). I don't see that in Hobbit ... but I trust that Keith will find a way to incorporate the flipper somehow. He deserves the benefit of the doubt here.

They could do something in single ball play where you have to combo the left orbit to UR flipper in order to do a "Kill Shot" on Smaug. They could also make it so that when you shoot down the drops using the lower flippers the drop pops back up and Smaug laughs at you!

#5337 4 years ago

Upper flipper shot present in game that I know of is ball exits to right out of bumpers, flows down right orbit to upper flipper for a shot to the captive ball to relight the kickback/windlance.

#5338 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

He does make a good point. There should be something to regularly aim at with that top flipper. Perhaps it is coming in the code, but I don't see it. With WOZ, there are shots from that top right flipper that are difficult but only possible from that flipper (i.e. into the haunted forest) and shots that are best taken from that flipper (i.e. the witch). I don't see that in Hobbit ... but I trust that Keith will find a way to incorporate the flipper somehow. He deserves the benefit of the doubt here.

I do not get it. Why keep talking about the 'faults' instead of the positive things. Do not expect any major changes. This is it. The left upper flipper has been removed, so I am sure the JJP team has a purpose for the right one.

By the way. Look at the right upper flipper of TZ. How many shots can you make with that one Does not bother me in any way.

#5339 4 years ago

LOL! This is what i think of you guys and your down votes

#5340 4 years ago

JJP removed the 4th flipper, and could have removed the 3rd if needed. They must have a reason to keep it - we'll have to wait to see what. I suspect it is for the lance, but could be more...

EDIT: My guess on the 3rd flipper is that when you fire the lance the left scoop with uncover for just enough time to get one shot off the upper right flipper - then they cover it back up. This will force you to have to reload the lance and fire again. This will feel like a very tough - and really satisfying shot.

#5341 4 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

Every shot is easely made, with almost no risc when missing.
Only the drops, if coded well which i think they will, will be challenging and satisfying shots.
I still think this will be of of the best pins ever, due to the whole package. But lay out wise it could have been so much better. This lay out lacks fantasy for a theme like The Hobbit.

Most of the risky shots right now are from bad carrom's off of the pop ups. I also had one drain where it went around the U-turn and went SDTM. There wasn't a post to save it in the MGC game.

I agree that this has the capability to be one of the best pins of all time because of the entire package, but the layout is definitely the weakest link. If this was Pat's game there would be no way he would design a game with a "worthless upper flipper" and such a poorly designed Bag End pop area. On Pat's games the biggest jackpots are always unique shots using the upper flippers. The rest of the game is top notch though and I think great software can make up for a lot of the layout's faults.

#5342 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

By the way. Look at the right upper flipper of TZ. How many shots can you make with that one Does not bother me in any way.

UR flipper on TZ is the only way you can shoot the Hitchhiker and camera shot as well as some of the smaller targets. You can even carrom shots up to the piano on occasion and it is also how you relight the jackpot in multiball. If the Hobbit's UR flipper is half as useful I will be impressed!

-6
#5343 4 years ago

Its kinda funny that Pinsiders have to come up with ideas how to use the upper flipper since JJ has no idea.

UPPERFLIPPER.jpg
#5344 4 years ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Its kinda funny that Pinsiders have to come up with ideas how to use the upper flipper since JJ has no idea.

UPPERFLIPPER.jpg

The shot from the kickback for a one timer to the upper right flipper that MikeS mentioned sounds pretty cool. I haven't seen another game pull that off before. Then again most games don't have Keith and Ted working on the code to create something unique and cool like that. Those two guys think out of the box when it comes to rulesets that work an entire playfield in interesting ways.

#5345 4 years ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

I do not agree with anyone that thinks this is going to be a "slow" game. Remember this is a wide body!

I thought it was slow at TPF, but I also don't think the game was leveled like I would have it at home either.

#5346 4 years ago

Big problem with the one timer from the Windlace will be adjusting the outlane. Want to close or open your outlane? Well, now it won't feed the upper flipper.

#5347 4 years ago
Quoted from aobrien5:

Big problem with the one timer from the Windlace will be adjusting the outlane. Want to close or open your outlane? Well, now it won't feed the upper flipper.

I expect you will be able to adjust the lower post and since the ball hugs the upper metal side rail when the kickback fires it won't be affected by the adjustment.

#5348 4 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The shot from the kickback for a one timer to the upper right flipper that MikeS mentioned sounds pretty cool. I haven't seen another game pull that off before.

I dunno, sounds like the kickback to warp ramp shot on Star Trek, not all that amazing.

I'm sure Keith will do an awesome job, he always does, but it's a little silly that we're sitting here trying to figure out how he's going to justify a flipper, isn't it?

#5349 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I expect you will be able to adjust the lower post and since the ball hugs the upper metal side rail when the kickback fires it won't be affected by the adjustment.

From the schematic above, it looks like the same left outlane as Woz, which means moving the rail.

#5350 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

but it's a little silly that we're sitting here trying to figure out how he's going to justify a flipper, isn't it?

I AGREE VERY SILLY, BUT IT IS PINSIDE SO IT MAKES SENSE.

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