(Topic ID: 156561)

Hobbit Smaug LE - first impressions

By zsciaeount

7 years ago


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  • 118 posts
  • 59 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Goronic
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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There are 118 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 7 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Second regarding RadCals being offered by JJP free of charge. Then the gouge could be filled and the RadClas installed over the top. Would look like new.

I guess I haven't seen the Radcals in person / only in pictures. How is it the Radcals would fill-in a gash? Wouldn't the op need to do a little filler or leveler / first? I suppose it would depend on the depth of the gash. If a person had a standard decal'd cabinet and a rad-cal'd head, wouldn't they not match in terms of sheen? (Radcals being glossier)

I've received a NIB before that had some gashes in the head before. Regular decals + a little filler and it is as good as new to my eyes but I can see the frustration.

I hope the Op, JJP and Distributor come up with a solution to the Op's satisfaction!

#52 7 years ago
Quoted from Gov:

I honestly don't remember the details but I remember the OP wasn't happy and I have met the OP in person and I know I wouldn't want him on my bad side

He seems so gentle....

All kidding aside, he is handling it better than I would. I think JJP will come through. . I really hope JJP can keep the ball rolling and starting putting out a couple pins per year. Things just do not seem to be clicking yet.

#53 7 years ago

It is one thing if they are marketing only to operators. Marketing to the home buyer is a different thing.

#54 7 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

one thing that is distracting is how all of the drops reset after you hit your first switch. It's loud!

That's something I noticed when I played as well. I thought the machine was broken! Is that normal on all machines???

#55 7 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

so jjp warranty is parts for the manufacturer and labor for the buyer?

jjpwarranty_(resized).jpgjjpwarranty_(resized).jpg

#56 7 years ago

Surely an after sales warranty relates to parts malfunctioning after you receive the game in working order. If it arrives with a harness fault and old glass installed then it's not fit for the purpose of sale, that's something totally different.

18
#57 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

It is not relevant what you paid. A $2000 machine and a $10000 machine should both work and be under warranty the same way.
Anyways, pinballs break new or not. It should be on the owner to dismantle wires and trace down issues. It's up to the manufacturer to assist and suggest things and pay for parts. It's up to the owner to do the leg work.
In your case, it doesn't sound too tough. Get your dmm out and set it to DC volts. With coin door closed test red on the coil and black on the ground strap for voltage at the coil. If it's not present, then be tracing wires to that coil from the previous ones and check fuses. It's likely a wire that came off.
If you do have voltage at the coil then it's likely a short between the transistor and the coil - either in the trace from the transistor to the board header or in the wire from the header to the coil. Neither of these are difficult or time consuming to track down. (Maybe 15 minutes of effort here). If you can't be bothered with doing those simple things then perhaps just sell your game.
I'd be much more unhappy having to fill in and redecal part of that cabinet. That seems like a much bigger job.

Other members have already done me the favor of calling your post dickish, so I don't have to.

It's one thing if a machine breaks after a year. However, when it doesn't work right out of the box, when it is obvious that the mech wasn't working during testing, when the machine shows several other glaring quality control issues, that is a manufacturing issue, and no matter how big or small the fix, it is JJP's responsibility to ensure that the NIB machine I received is the same NIB machine I paid out the nose for.

Despite how you feel about the issue, and how proud you are that you wear big boy pants because you have oodles of time to dismantle and reassemble a NIB machine, consumer protection laws are on my side. Errors in manufacturing that significantly impair the use of a product are the responsibility of the manufacturer to repair, at no cost to the consumer; if those repairs cannot be made, or if they are significantly delayed, I have legal recourse to recoup my investment or receive a replacement.

#58 7 years ago
Quoted from thewool:

Surely an after sales warranty relates to parts malfunctioning after you receive the game in working order. If it arrives with a harness fault and old glass installed then it's not fit for the purpose of sale, that's something totally different.

Agreed. We are not talking about a machine that broke within 90 days. We are talking about a machine that shipped broken. Big difference.

#59 7 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Based on OP well written summary, quality control on the assembly line failed on this one. ...I disagree a NIB pin should require the owner to dismantle wiring to trace issues...

A well written summary by a non-technical owner. I think after he spends thirty minutes tracing the broken wire (that probably broke during shipping) and can't find it then JJP should pay for a tech visit.

Replacing the game at this point is completely unwarranted.

#60 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

It is not relevant what you paid. A $2000 machine and a $10000 machine should both work and be under warranty the same way.
Anyways, pinballs break new or not. It should be on the owner to dismantle wires and trace down issues. It's up to the manufacturer to assist and suggest things and pay for parts. It's up to the owner to do the leg work.
In your case, it doesn't sound too tough. Get your dmm out and set it to DC volts. With coin door closed test red on the coil and black on the ground strap for voltage at the coil. If it's not present, then be tracing wires to that coil from the previous ones and check fuses. It's likely a wire that came off.
If you do have voltage at the coil then it's likely a short between the transistor and the coil - either in the trace from the transistor to the board header or in the wire from the header to the coil. Neither of these are difficult or time consuming to track down. (Maybe 15 minutes of effort here). If you can't be bothered with doing those simple things then perhaps just sell your game.
I'd be much more unhappy having to fill in and redecal part of that cabinet. That seems like a much bigger job.

Heck, with this attitude, why not ship all of the parts and just expect the customer to assemble. Issues like this will certainly lead to detracting from expanding the customer base and growing. Nobody in their right mind will spend a substantial amount of money on something and not expect it to be in pristine/working condition when it arrives.

#61 7 years ago
Quoted from Dalbok:

Heck, with this attitude, why not ship all of the parts and just expect the customer to assemble. Issues like this will certainly lead to detracting from expanding the customer base and growing. Nobody in their right mind will spend a substantial amount of money on something and not expect it to be in pristine/working condition when it arrives.

The nonsense that some of these guys spew is pretty amusing.

#62 7 years ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

Replacing the game at this point is completely unwarranted.

So is waiting 2 weeks (and counting?) for JJP to step up and take care of him after faithfully prepaying and patiently waiting though all the drama....

It sounds like the OP waiting 2 weeks before even posting here- thats pretty calm compared to how I might feel after spending $8-$9K and getting shoddy communication/support.

#63 7 years ago

A lot more calmer then I would be. I would be at the factory demanding a replacement game. Thats what he should have, a replacement game. That way the gash, electrical issues are fixed from the get go. That would be good customer service. Not just given a band aid to install over a severed arm and to think Jack did cart wheels after the game shipped.

#65 7 years ago

I actually think replacing the game was warranted from the beginning but based on the damage to the cabinet. My big surprise here is that the OP has no issues with the big problems but is unable to spend a few minutes tracking down a potentially severed wire. It really is easy for anybody to do if they make the effort. We aren't talking about an advanced repair. There are probably 5-6 wire ties to cut to loosen the wires and you can trace it all down in about 15 minutes. Then you can tie strap them back up.

Some of you guys have put the most ridiculous words in my mouth here.

Quoted from zsciaeount:

you have oodles of time to dismantle and reassemble a NIB machine, consumer protection laws are on my side. Errors in manufacturing that significantly impair the use of a product are the responsibility of the manufacturer to repair, at no cost to the consumer; if those repairs cannot be made, or if they are significantly delayed, I have legal recourse to recoup my investment or receive a replacement.

Sounds like all this hassling you've gone through, the time spent in this thread, and pressing legal charges against JJP will take much less than the 15 or so minutes to follow the direction JJP support has given you to trace a broken wire???

I agree the game should have been in working shape when it arrived. It wasn't. Of all the problems listed, this is the one preventing you from playing it and probably the simplest one to solve. I think you have a great case on the cabinet damage alone. But you seem ok with that. I have no idea why.

#66 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I agree the game should have been in working shape when it arrived. It wasn't. Of all the problems listed, this is the one preventing you from playing it and probably the simplest one to solve. I think you have a great case on the cabinet damage alone. But you seem ok with that. I have no idea why.

I would *also* be pissed about the cabinet, but I think it's understandable that the OP is more focused on the program's that's preventing the game from being playable after waiting a few years for it. Once it's up and running, his ire may increase with the shoddy QC on the cabinet....

#67 7 years ago

OP: Any resolution?

#68 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

OP: Any resolution?

I am happy to report that yes, we have resolution. It was a bad coil in the diverter mech.

They shipped me a new mech and a new driver board, but the problem was solved by just replacing the mech, which was a very quick and simple swap. I do have to ship the board back to them.

I also got a fresh new piece of Invisiglass that doesn't have spray paint all over it. I have not yet had a chance to replace the decal, and probably won't have time to do so for several weeks.

So, while it was a bit like pulling teeth to get them to send me a replacement mech, they ended up coming through in the end. Now that I can properly start modes, the game is fun to play.

I also have some updated impressions on the game:

Moving from the 0.81 release code to the latest 1.01 code (it's finally up on the website for download), there are several improvements to the overall presentation and gameplay.

On the attract, there is now a rudimentary explanation of the rules and goals, which is nice, and some updated movie footage. I was also updating my WOZ ECLE tonight, and looking at them side-by-side, it seems like the Hobbit's monitor is much sharper and has more color depth. It really pops... makes me wish there were a mirrored backglass for Hobbit.

The new code also fleshes out some modes and adds a bunch of polish, including scenes from the film at the start of the mode, and several new lighting effects that really add to the game. The new software is able to use the spots and a few of the GI lights as flashers, turning the brightness up to 11. It adds a lot of intensity to the start of a mode. Thankfully, this update doesn't start any hurry-up countdowns until the ball is launched, which is a welcome fix from 0.81.

The modes in the game also got a bit more interesting. Instead of banging out the same shot over and over, modes ask you to make a series of shots, like hitting the right ramp, then knocking down all of the drops, and then bashing an orc, for example. My favorite new mode is one with Gollum, where he speaks in riddles, and you have to figure out which drop you need to hit. For every shot you make, one of the drops is eliminated until one stands. It's a nice display of the virtues of drops that can drop themselves. I did, however, encounter a bug where the drops failed to reset.

Another nice mode is one where you have to avoid the left ramp, in addition to a shot with a flashing red insert. It's sort of like fireball in WOZ, except hitting one of the forbidden shots cancels the mode.

The multiballs are still the same, and it's satisfying to stack them. The callouts are a bit improved, and now there is a super jackpot. I did notice for the first time while playing MB tonight that there is a point where the dwarf standups start strobing, and you can hit them by knocking down the drops and then quickly bashing them again.

Other improvements are better Windlance kickback strength, though it needs to be tweaked when you are firing a charged shot with the ring button, since it fires very weakly in that instance.

All in all, it's a nice update that shows how much software can improve a game.

There are still a few issues I've noticed. The start button appears to become unresponsive during the game, making it hard to do a restart (...that is, if you're into that sort of thing...). I've also noticed that occasionally the Smaug magnet won't hold the ball if it's screaming fast, though this effect doesn't really impact the gameplay.

I also do have some concerns about the diverter, as it's just a piece of metal that pops up and causes the ball to hop over to the other habitrail. The ball often hops a bit when it hits the diverter, which makes me think it'd be better to have a small cap bonded to it so that it will deaden the ball. I'm also thinking that this thing is going to nick the ball at some point.

For modes that ask you to shoot for the barrels, it'd be nice to have the magnet in the orbit catch an orbit shot and drop it into the pops like the gates do on AC/DC during You Shook Me All Night Long. That's a software tweak away.

Finally, in terms of build quality, I am noticing quite a bit more dimpling than on WOZ. My WOZ has several hundred plays and the playfield looks like new. Hobbit, after about 50 plays, has noticeable dimpling, especially to the left of the lock rollovers. Whether this is due to more airballs, darker artwork, or lesser build quality, I dunno.

Also, the VUKs are getting weak early. As I said, it's been about 50 games, and already the VUKs are having trouble serving the ball back up. Even adjusting the coil strength doesn't seem to help. I feel like I'm playing White Water...

So, bottom line:

Hobbit is fun. Software is coming along nicely, and is making up for the fairly simple layout. I still don't quite understand what the upper flipper is for, since it doesn't really aim for anything but the dwarf targets. Build quality concerns still remain. JJP support came through in the end.

#69 7 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

I still don't quite understand what the upper flipper is for, since it doesn't really aim for anything but the dwarf targets. Build quality concerns still remain. JJP support came through in the end.

There are already a mode that requires you to load the winlance. Eject ball out which lands in orbit, then you need to hit the drops under Smaug to complete the mode i think. Its like a 3 way combo.

I think there is another mode that uses it as well detailed on the rule diagram.

#70 7 years ago

Playfield dimpling worries me some. Anybody else notice playfield issues on yours?

-1
#71 7 years ago

So when you say it was like pulling teeth to get them to send you a mech, what do you mean? Where they just not responding to your claim, or where they giving you the run around.

#72 7 years ago
Quoted from fatality83:

So when you say it was like pulling teeth to get them to send you a mech, what do you mean? Where they just not responding to your claim, or where they giving you the run around.

A bit of a run around. They had me do a few things that just proved it wasn't working. That killed off a few days. Then they suggested that it was a single wire in the middle of an otherwise working bundle of wires.

Finally, after telling me there's no way it could be an issue with the mech, they sent me a new mech, which is all of $10 worth of parts, and that fixed the problem.

As you can see, problem solved nearly 4 weeks after the problem was first reported. Considering Stern gets a replacement to you in a few days, this was like pulling teeth in comparison...

#73 7 years ago

Any game with 4 popup "trolls" is gonna dimple just like MM. When they pop up balls will get thrown up in the air against the glass and then slam back down on the PF. I wouldn't worry about it as there is nothing you can do about this. Just enjoy it and the PF will eventually get an even surface to it. It's just an ugly journey from mirror smooth to shiny "orange peel"

Now some games you can re-enforce the standup targets to lean forward and end most airballs. I was able to do this with MB to try to preserve it's smooth PF finish. But with some games it's not an option and it still works out fine in the end.

#74 7 years ago

I'm hoping There are some cliffys for this soon. Those two holes are going to be hot spots for wear

#75 7 years ago

Cliff's usually on the ball with new titles. Maybe write him as well. Super nice guy.

#76 7 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

I'm hoping There are some cliffys for this soon. Those two holes are going to be hot spots for wear

If you or anyone hear of cliffys, please post quickly

#77 7 years ago
Quoted from konghusker:

Playfield dimpling worries me some. Anybody else notice playfield issues on yours?

My Stern Star Trek Pro dimpled like crazy, had hundreds of dimples everywhere by the time I sold it 4 months later. This dimpling thing comes up a lot, it is normal. Look closely at any machine, there will be small dimples all over. Most people just don't notice it I think.

#78 7 years ago
Quoted from craigj:

My Stern Star Trek Pro dimpled like crazy, had hundreds of dimples everywhere by the time I sold it 4 months later. This dimpling thing comes up a lot, it is normal. Look closely at any machine, there will be small dimples all over. Most people just don't notice it I think.

It's the type of gameplay also...my old CFTBL hardly has a dimple but that is because the ball just rolls around and never gets even slightly airborn. It's not exactly slow gameplay but more... measured.

"Newer" high speed games from AFM to JJP and Stern's offerings are gonna take more of a toll on the PF with their more powerful flippers, drop targets that get bent backwards over time, bash toys, etc...

What can ya do? It's a small price to pay for the speed we're now used to... plus we're now getting more NIB buyers who have to watch the painful transition right in their own home.

#79 7 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

I'm hoping There are some cliffys for this soon. Those two holes are going to be hot spots for wear

Not so sure about that. The angle of both of those kick out holes are not getting hard shots delivered at them. I've only played about 20 games on my Hobbit LE but that is one of the first things I have noticed. The one to the right is most susceptible but certainly not the one under the drop targets.

Just my opinion, I'd be curious to hear about others.

#80 7 years ago

Glad she's fixed and working again. Nobody will ever know what that upper flipper is for.

#81 7 years ago
Quoted from DerekParsons:

Glad she's fixed and working again. Nobody will ever know what that upper flipper is for.

Artful asymmetry.

#82 7 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

Not so sure about that. The angle of both of those kick out holes are not getting hard shots delivered at them. I've only played about 20 games on my Hobbit LE but that is one of the first things I have noticed. The one to the right is most susceptible but certainly not the one under the drop targets.
Just my opinion, I'd be curious to hear about others.

I agee w/ you but still want cliffys. If you do notice, the VUK on the left allows the ball to travel about 1 inch or so past the hole. Would that help prevent damage to the hole??

#83 7 years ago
Quoted from DerekParsons:

Glad she's fixed and working again. Nobody will ever know what that upper flipper is for.

I don't know the answer to that but I do know that you shouldn't ask Keefer about that.....

#84 7 years ago
Quoted from Gov:

I don't know the answer to that but I do know that you shouldn't ask Keefer about that.....

Hey it's Kanada... he's here to irritate

#85 7 years ago
Quoted from Gov:

I don't know the answer to that but I do know that you shouldn't ask Keefer about that.....

I remenber he told me that it was about hitting targets.

#86 7 years ago

Propelling ball(s) towards targets

#87 7 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

Hey it's Kanada... he's here to irritate

TAKE THAT BACK!

#88 7 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

I agee w/ you but still want cliffys. If you do notice, the VUK on the left allows the ball to travel about 1 inch or so past the hole. Would that help prevent damage to the hole??

Quoted from konghusker:

Playfield dimpling worries me some. Anybody else notice playfield issues on yours?

I'm concerned about the wear at the holes and the playfield dimpling so I guess I'll get the playfield protector and hope that cliffys are available by the time I got my game. I am also fearing I might have to drop the extra $400 for the Radcals because I read a post from a Hobbit owner that says he is highly disappointed in the wrap around graphics on the cabinet because it has bubbling and resembles a Stern.

#89 7 years ago
Quoted from yonizzell:

I'm concerned about the wear at the holes and the playfield dimpling so I guess I'll get the playfield protector and hope that cliffys are available by the time I got my game. I am also fearing I might have to drop the extra $400 for the Radcals because I read a post from a Hobbit owner that says he is highly disappointed in the wrap around graphics on the cabinet because it has bubbling and resembles a Stern.

It's no WOZ cabinet graphics that's for sure

#90 7 years ago

My SE cabinet is perfect, great workmanship and perfect decal work.
I specifically chose not to get Rad-Cals™ because it will sit very close to my other pins on either side and no-one will see them.

Still though its not screen printed and auto-glossed like my WOZ, its very good work, And just beautifully done.

I am sorry to see that the LE versions are losing their cab stickers, but I think its a vendor glue problem (wrong adhesive, wrong application) as the actual work is high quality, from what I have seen.

#91 7 years ago

Mine smoking perfect as well!!

1 month later
#92 7 years ago

OK, here's an update. My Hobbit SE continues to have issues. The pop bumpers keep cycling like in a ball search, Smaug's mouth stopped working, and multiple switches are out. This is a game with maybe 50 plays tops. I am absolutely fed up, and would recommend avoiding this game due to the poor build quality. $8500 just wasted... I would have been smarter to just save the cash and wipe my ass with it.

#93 7 years ago

Wow, that's a sad story. Sorry to hear 50 plays that's pitiful.

#94 7 years ago

Awful- sorry to hear. Hopefully, Jack will make this right; and it's an isolated incident.

-3
#95 7 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

OK, here's an update. My Hobbit SE continues to have issues. The pop bumpers keep cycling like in a ball search, Smaug's mouth stopped working, and multiple switches are out. This is a game with maybe 50 plays tops. I am absolutely fed up, and would recommend avoiding this game due to the poor build quality. $8500 just wasted... I would have been smarter to just save the cash and wipe my ass with it.

Someone will be here soon to offer "geez, mine is flawless after 51 games" as if ONE other persons good experience somehow negates another persons poor experience.

Sorry for your troubles.... its not that you had a problem (it's pinball- there will be problems), but the seemingly uneven level of customer support from JJP.

The excuse-makers will tell you:
"they are too busy making awesome pinball machines to respond, sorry"
or
"they can make the most awesome pinball software in the history of mankind, but somehow, after 5 years, still can't figure out how to use their own ticket system"
or
"please PM your problems to one of their fanboys here, THEY will get your problem solved"

Oy.

#96 7 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

OK, here's an update. My Hobbit SE continues to have issues. The pop bumpers keep cycling like in a ball search, Smaug's mouth stopped working, and multiple switches are out. This is a game with maybe 50 plays tops. I am absolutely fed up, and would recommend avoiding this game due to the poor build quality. $8500 just wasted... I would have been smarter to just save the cash and wipe my ass with it.

I'm sorry to hear that your game is having issues. What version of the software you are on? I new version of the software, 1.20, is going to be released very soon so hopefully that will correct some of the issues. Have you tried a complete reinstall of 1.01 using the ISO, testing for the issues at 1.01 and then apply the 1.10 delta to retest again? Have you tried contacting Frank at JJP support?

I do believe this is an isolated issue as my game and my others have been playing without issue. If anything I hope its just a software issue or a cable / wire lose.

#97 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Someone will be here soon to offer "geez, mine is flawless after 51 games" as if ONE other persons good experience somehow negates another persons poor experience.
Sorry for your troubles.... its not that you had a problem (it's pinball- there will be problems), but the seemingly uneven level of customer support from JJP.
The excuse-makers will tell you:
"they are too busy making awesome pinball machines to respond, sorry"
or
"they can make the most awesome pinball software in the history of mankind, but somehow, after 5 years, still can't figure out how to use their own ticket system"
or
"please PM your problems to one of their fanboys here, THEY will get your problem solved"
Oy.

Do you actually have something helpful to say like I did above or just love any opportunity to bash JJP as a company?

#98 7 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

OK, here's an update. My Hobbit SE continues to have issues. The pop bumpers keep cycling like in a ball search, Smaug's mouth stopped working, and multiple switches are out. This is a game with maybe 50 plays tops. I am absolutely fed up, and would recommend avoiding this game due to the poor build quality. $8500 just wasted... I would have been smarter to just save the cash and wipe my ass with it.

So Sorry to hear about all the problems. Can you tell us what kind of support you have received from JJP.

What is their plan moving forward to help you fix these issues?

Thanks

#99 7 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

Someone will be here soon to offer "geez, mine is flawless after 51 games" as if ONE other persons good experience somehow negates another persons poor experience.
Sorry for your troubles.... its not that you had a problem (it's pinball- there will be problems), but the seemingly uneven level of customer support from JJP.
The excuse-makers will tell you:
"they are too busy making awesome pinball machines to respond, sorry"
or
"they can make the most awesome pinball software in the history of mankind, but somehow, after 5 years, still can't figure out how to use their own ticket system"
or
"please PM your problems to one of their fanboys here, THEY will get your problem solved"
Oy.

Sounds like you have it all figured out. I'm sure the OP appreciated your helpful post.

Did you actually have a point?

#100 7 years ago

Mine arrives next week. I'm a little nervous after reading this.

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