(Topic ID: 156561)

Hobbit Smaug LE - first impressions


By zsciaeount

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 118 posts
  • 59 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Goronic
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

jjpwarranty_(resized).jpg

There are 118 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
44
#1 3 years ago

I recently received my Hobbit LE, and wanted to share some of my impressions after several days of play.

It's difficult to evaluate the Hobbit without drawing comparisons to Wizard of Oz, since WOZ--whatever your thoughts about the actual gameplay--arguably set the bar for what to expect from a premium-quality machine. My WOZ LE came very late in the production cycle, and by then, most of the kinks with bad boards and other technical issues had been worked out. While WOZ isn't my favorite game to actually play, there's no question that it's a stunner.

The Hobbit is also a very pretty machine at first glance. As I set it up, the crystal-clear invisiglass allowed all of the artwork on the playfield to pop, and the gold Smaug looks pretty cool as well. This is one pin that looks fantastic even when powered off.

But, when you take a closer look at the Hobbit, it's evident that you're not getting quite as much machine for your money as you did with WOZ. When you power up the machine, the display is crisp and bright, and the artwork is good use of static images from the films. The surrounding translite doesn't fare as well. The lighting is a bit harsh and overly white, and it causes the images on the translite to look washed out. This is especially evident when you have a WOZ powered up side-by side.

The cabinet art is nice, though mine shipped with a huge nick in the side of the head that goes all the way down to wood. My shipping box was pristine, and this was sitting in the middle of a room when I set it up, so the damage must have occurred before it left the factory, and it just didn't get noticed.

The most disappointing part of the package is the apron. WOZ had a beautiful wood apron with an engraved placard on the ECLEs. On the Hobbit, my apron is just a plastic apron with a matte decal. It's bland, and doesn't scream "Limited Edition" to me. What's worse is that the decal wasn't even fully glued down, and when I lifted the playfield to cut the zip ties that hold some mechs in place for shipping, I noticed that the decal started to peel up at the bottom as I tried to re-seat the playfield. Just doesn't feel very premium...

The coated legs are extremely nicely done, and the trim is top-notch. The invisiglass is also great, though it looks like mine had some overspray from some process, since there is a stenciled area of paint that I can't clean off of the glass. Getting the glass back in is a bit of a chore, since the runner at the top of the body isn't quite lined up, and I have to manually push it down to line it up so I can slide the glass in. Thankfully, the lockdown bar is much less of a pain than the lockdown on WOZ.

Oddly missing are some features that were promised initially, including replaceable magnetic side art (mine looks to be decaled), the lack of illumination in the apron (I see no lights), and the removal of the outlane nudge that could get you back to the shooter lane.

All in all, it's a nice looking machine, but it's evident where Jersey Jack decided to cut some costs compared to WOZ. That said, with Hobbit initially costing several thousand more than WOZ did when preorders opened, it's really sort of a bummer to see that they cut corners. I'm also a bit upset that my game shipped with an obvious nick in the cabinet, and that the mech that diverts the ball down the left ramp appears to have shipped in a non-working condition, because it generated an error after the first few games, which means that it must not have been working during at least part of the testing phase.

OK, so with the design and build quality out of the way, how does the game look and play?

The light show on the playfield is a bit subdued in the initial code. Granted, WOZ's central theme is a rainbow, and the full spectrum of colors wouldn't look all that great on the Hobbit, but the light show--at least in this early code--is pretty basic, with most inserts either white or orange, and some color pretty much reserved for the inlanes and outlanes and the lock rollovers.

The game is a lot more fast and flowy than WOZ, and several features encourage you to make shots on the fly. As with WOZ, Hobbit is hurry-up crazy, with most inlane rollovers triggering a beast to pop up for you to hit as a way to make progress towards a 2-ball multiball. I like the fact that these pop-ups register hits from both the front and back, and that especially the middle ones allow you to bank the ball off of them into another target, but they do often block what would be the next logical shot up a ramp or through an orbit. The idea of diverting a ball to the left kickback is a great idea, but as I said, my kicker arrived DOA.

The ability to use the apron button to delay locks is a nice touch, though some of the other features are a bit less obvious and I'm still not sure what "Light Thorn" during multiball means. Stacking multiballs is a great way to rack up points, and the fact that you can use skillful apron button presses to ensure you can stack is welcome.

As for the modes, they're not incredibly fleshed out at the moment, and I don't believe there is a reward for collecting all of the characters. When I did, it just seemed to reset and roll over. I also remain unclear as to what governs when the drop targets reset.

There are a few skill shots, and it's nice to be able to pick your shot before you plunge, but one thing that is distracting is how all of the drops reset after you hit your first switch. It's loud!

The lock rollovers in the middle of the playfield are fine, but it does have a tendency to corral a ball rolling back from a ramp and cause it to ride the lip and go SDTM. Maybe this will get better as the buttons soften up.

Some of the promised features have yet to be implemented, such as player control of the diverters. The game is also completely lacking in helpful callouts, so it can be difficult to know what to shoot for during a mode, or to know what the ring button will do at any given time, since it is context-sensitive. This is made a bit worse by the fact that the only information you have is on the screen, and what you need to do to make progress in a mode is printed in text at the top middle of the screen... a far distance to move your eyes away from the playfield. I've found myself draining while just trying to get some info on what to do. Of course, all of this can be fixed in a future update, so I am not too concerned.

All in all, the Hobbit is a nice machine, but it doesn't quite feel like the premium product WOZ is. I think that with refinement of the software, this will be a very fun game and a good players' machine, but at the moment, it very much feels like a work in progress. Was it worth $8500? Time will tell.

#2 3 years ago

Excellent write up.

#3 3 years ago

I have a woz and have played TH.

To me the only thing that slightly let's the 'premium' feel down is the resolution or printing quality of the apron. It looks great in pictures but looks a little cheap in person.

I think the lighting is better than WOZ, the plastics are better, the cab art is a little better, lcd animations are better, the flippers feel better too.

#4 3 years ago

Good honest review, cheers. Sucks the quality probs you had straight out of box.

This was my concern that the hobbit would be stripped down compared to Woz. There was no expense spared designing Woz, with investors supporting JJP now they want to see a ROI. JJP would have to take cost out of pin to support this. I recently brought a Woz with this in mind, I don't expect to see another pin released with more stuff than Woz, without the price going even higher.

I had a problem with my Woz straight out of box. Took over 40 hours to find, but it was damaged before it left the factory. Once problem was identified (bent transistors on I/O board) something had been dropped on them hard enough to bend about 10 causing them to ground each other out. In closing my help ticket I requested a shirt, which was accepted and passed on even to Jack himself. They sent me a cap!!! 40 hours of my time due to a factory fault = hat. This just made me feel things must be tight at JJP now.

#5 3 years ago

I noticed the washed out translite/backglass at TPF. Pretty cheap looking to be honest. The rest of the game looked amazing though. Shame to hear about the apron and decal...that is a disappointing downgrade for sure.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

On the Hobbit, my apron is just a plastic apron with a matte decal. It's bland, and doesn't scream "Limited Edition" to me. What's worse is that the decal wasn't even fully glued down, and when I lifted the playfield to cut the zip ties that hold some mechs in place for shipping, I noticed that the decal started to peel up at the bottom as I tried to re-seat the playfield.

Do all versions of Hobbit have a plastic apron?

#7 3 years ago

Why not put something like a piece of translucent tape over the translite LEDs to make them less bright so they would not wash out the art so much?

12
#8 3 years ago

So the Hobbit Smaug LE's have some cost cutting issues going on?

I expect all the Stern bashers that have repeatedly posted how much they despise Stern for cost cutting measures on their multiple versions to really weigh in on this......

That said, keep on producing JJP, you can't make a machine that pleases everyone on every aspect. Stay in business, I'd rather listen to people bitch than see JJp go out of business.

#9 3 years ago

Great write up - thanks for the detail and honesty. It really only counts when you have the machine - not what you "feel" it should be like.
I'm not convinced anything is due to "cost cutting", just the way they are manufactured. I have a WOZ, and had a TH on order but cancelled just to buy some other machines due to time delays. Not sad I cancelled, may or may not jump on board. With the way the LE and Standards are situated, you don't miss out on anything if you wait except for decals and plaque. I like to think that by now we are all educated on how hard pinballs are to make, and greatly admire Bally/Williams for the old days, Stern for sticking with it and now doing what they do so well - and still no idea how Spooky are achieving what they are doing (exceptionally well I may propose). My thanks to JJP for jumping in and going high-end, but I think there has to be a rationalisation at some stage because a "passion" has to turn into a "business". Now we just wait to see how Pat's masterpiece turns out - I hope it's wonderful.

#10 3 years ago

Did you contact JJP about the damage to the head and if so, how did they handle it?

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from msj2222:

Did you contact JJP about the damage to the head and if so, how did they handle it?

I wonder if they would just send some Radecals to take care of it.

#12 3 years ago

Thanks for this kool-aid-free writeup - a good read! Make sure you reach out to Frank @ JJP and your distributor to get those two quality issues addressed. You could also reach out to the newsgroup (email Jen for an invite) - they've always done right by me, I hope your experience is the same.

#13 3 years ago

Excellent review.

Quoted from Mike_J:

Do all versions of Hobbit have a plastic apron?

My Smaug LE came with a steel apron (but no illumination), and an inoperative left diverter. The diverter issue was due to a connector that had separated, easy fix.

Quoted from DCFAN:

Why not put something like a piece of translucent tape over the translite LEDs to make them less bright so they would not wash out the art so much?

One of the first things I noticed upon initial start up was that the translite was not only washed out, but bluish in color. This is due to the factory using a very cool white LED in the 6500k+ range. I immediately replaced the factory LED strip with a strip of 3100K warm white LED. This better showed the warm colors of the translite artwork, but it still has a bit of a washed out look as the LEDs are just too bright for the artwork. I'll be adding a potentiometer to the wiring so that the translite brightness can be adjusted depending on room lighting conditions.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

I immediately replaced the factory LED strip with a strip of 3100K warm white LED. This better showed the warm colors of the translite artwork, but it still has a bit of a washed out look as the LEDs are just too bright for the artwork. I'll be adding a potentiometer to the wiring so that the translite brightness can be adjusted depending on room lighting conditions.

Can you please share your ultimate fix on this along with the products you used? I think a lot of us would like to do the same. It would be much appreciated.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Can you please share your ultimate fix on this along with the products you used? I think a lot of us would like to do the same. It would be much appreciated.

Shame it has to be done at all. But if that is the worst thing you have to do I guess it wouldn't be so bad.

#17 3 years ago

Great review and mirrored a lot of my thoughts as well. I was going to be in as I had a WOZ ECLE, but then I had a chance to play it and it just felt flat. Nothing was there to make me want to play another game, as the shots that were there just didnt feel fun to make. The build quality was not even close to WOZ from what I saw, as the metal ramps were flopping back and forth when I hit them. Its a shame as I really wanted it to scream buy me, but I ended up switching money to another machine.

1 week later
16
#18 3 years ago
Quoted from msj2222:

Did you contact JJP about the damage to the head and if so, how did they handle it?

I wanted to wait until I had a chance to see this through and provide my honest assessment and follow up. It's been nearly 2 weeks and my game is still awaiting a fix. JJP was very responsive about the ding in the cabinet and the fact that my invisiglass was covered with paint overspray (Frank thinks they may have accidentally grabbed a piece that was scrap and installed in on my machine, since he says they do not paint anything with the glass on it). They are sending me a new side decal (I have to fix the gouge myself), and a new sheet of unblemished playfield glass, which should arrive tomorrow.

But, unfortunately, the mech problem continues to be an issue, and the diverter does not work. This is a pretty significant issue, since that's where it goes for a mode start. All of the connections are tight, so there is a problem somewhere between the board and the coil. They've had me do a bunch of stuff, like re-seat all of the cables, and ground out the transistor to see if the coil fires (it does not).

Basically, the problem is in the wiring, and they seem to think that it should be my responsibility to undo the main artery in the wire harness, dig out all of the wires and test them individually. I'm sorry, but I just dropped $8500 on a new premium pinball machine. It should not fall to me to essentially dismantle a large portion of the underside of the playfield. It's not something I feel super comfortable doing, but even if I did, that shouldn't fall to me.

A single wire cushioned in the middle of a bundle of 60 wires doesn't mysteriously break during shipping, leaving everything around it intact. The mech arrived DOA and errored out almost immediately, which tells me that this was a manufacturing error that could have--and should have--been caught during testing. That said, considering that my game also shipped with a gouge in the cabinet, and a piece of scrap invisiglass, I get the sense that my machine wasn't thoroughly scrutinized before it left the facility.

I'm still waiting to hear how they are going to fix this, but pretty much any enthusiasm I had for the machine has been dashed by technical support that has me do a bunch of wheel-spinning in what seems like an attempt to delay the inevitability of having to do a major rewire of the underside of the playfield. Suggesting that this responsibility should fall to me is just salt on the wound.

I love collecting games, and I can do enough repairs to keep my games up and running, but I work 12-15 hours a day, 6 days a week. I don't have time to master an entirely new discipline, nor do I have the time to pull apart a substantial amount of the machine and put it back together. That's why I buy new games, or ones that are restored... because I do not have the time, energy, desire, or expertise to fix major problems.

I'm a huge Lawlor fan, so JJP's next game has my interest sight-unseen. If they come through and do what is necessary for me to finally be able to enjoy the new machine I paid for, it will go a long way in my book towards keeping my interest in JJP #3...

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

I wanted to wait until I had a chance to see this through and provide my honest assessment and follow up. It's been nearly 2 weeks and my game is still awaiting a fix. JJP was very responsive about the ding in the cabinet and the fact that my invisiglass was covered with paint overspray (Frank thinks they may have accidentally grabbed a piece that was scrap and installed in on my machine, since he says they do not paint anything with the glass on it). They are sending me a new side decal (I have to fix the gouge myself), and a new sheet of unblemished playfield glass, which should arrive tomorrow.
But, unfortunately, the mech problem continues to be an issue, and the diverter does not work. This is a pretty significant issue, since that's where it goes for a mode start. All of the connections are tight, so there is a problem somewhere between the board and the coil. They've had me do a bunch of stuff, like re-seat all of the cables, and ground out the transistor to see if the coil fires (it does not).
Basically, the problem is in the wiring, and they seem to think that it should be my responsibility to undo the main artery in the wire harness, dig out all of the wires and test them individually. I'm sorry, but I just dropped $8500 on a new premium pinball machine. It should not fall to me to essentially dismantle a large portion of the underside of the playfield. It's not something I feel super comfortable doing, but even if I did, that shouldn't fall to me.
A single wire cushioned in the middle of a bundle of 60 wires doesn't mysteriously break during shipping, leaving everything around it intact. The mech arrived DOA and errored out almost immediately, which tells me that this was a manufacturing error that could have--and should have--been caught during testing. That said, considering that my game also shipped with a gouge in the cabinet, and a piece of scrap invisiglass, I get the sense that my machine wasn't thoroughly scrutinized before it left the facility.
I'm still waiting to hear how they are going to fix this, but pretty much any enthusiasm I had for the machine has been dashed by technical support that has me do a bunch of wheel-spinning in what seems like an attempt to delay the inevitability of having to do a major rewire of the underside of the playfield. Suggesting that this responsibility should fall to me is just salt on the wound.
I love collecting games, and I can do enough repairs to keep my games up and running, but I work 12-15 hours a day, 6 days a week. I don't have time to master an entirely new discipline, nor do I have the time to pull apart a substantial amount of the machine and put it back together. That's why I buy new games, or ones that are restored... because I do not have the time, energy, desire, or expertise to fix major problems.
I'm a huge Lawlor fan, so JJP's next game has my interest sight-unseen. If they come through and do what is necessary for me to finally be able to enjoy the new machine I paid for, it will go a long way in my book towards keeping my interest in JJP #3...

Sorry to hear this man. These are the stories I don't like reading about for any NIB. I hope they get it resolved. Did you buy from a distributor or direct? I wonder if your distributor or JJP for that matter, would get a tech over there to fix it under warranty - that seems to be the most logical answer.

#20 3 years ago

I bought direct. Kind of makes me wish I had gone through a distributor. Wouldn't have been as much of an issue to get tech support.

But, yes, that's what I've told them. This should be covered under warranty, and they should arrange for someone to come out and fix it.

#21 3 years ago

Great write-up. I'm like you with your WOZ purchase. Why not wait until the kinks are worked out? I'm curious why you didn't do the same with your TH purchase? Basically, you somewhat invalidate your comparison because you are comparing an early production TH with a late edition WOZ. Nevertheless you have added to my conviction to stay my TH purchase until these types of issues become less frequent. Regarding your mech issue, that does suck. I would ask them for a replacement mech. You never know, it could fix the issue and it would eliminate a lot of other troubleshooting. At minimum, it eliminates one possible fault and you get an extra mech

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

All in all, it's a nice looking machine, but it's evident where Jersey Jack decided to cut some costs compared to WOZ. That said, with Hobbit initially costing several thousand more than WOZ did when preorders opened, it's really sort of a bummer to see that they cut corners.

Quoted from centerflank:

So the Hobbit Smaug LE's have some cost cutting issues going on?
I expect all the Stern bashers that have repeatedly posted how much they despise Stern for cost cutting measures on their multiple versions to really weigh in on this......

Well, since you asked...

I bailed out on my order last year. I was out, then I was in, then I was out again. The reason? When I got in on TH the first time, I thought I was getting a direct print cabinet. Those went POOF!, as did a few other things that I had originally loved about the originally planned machine (I'm still a huge fan of the dragon flying over the mountain - I thought that was beautiful!). But it was the floaty play of the game that eventually made me get out for good.

It was a good thing when JJP upgraded the armor - the work that Alex (I think) is doing on the armor is one of the highlights of the machine. But did they REALLY have to remove the powdercoating from the habitrails? Jack said it slowed down game play, but I'm not buying it. I've never seen powder coat effect the speed of a ball; didn't do it on WOZ, and I don't believe it did on TH.

Thanks for the HONEST review, OP. It's great to see people who can spot the disappointments, even when they have a shitload of $ invested in the machine.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

I bought direct. Kind of makes me wish I had gone through a distributor. Wouldn't have been as much of an issue to get tech support.
But, yes, that's what I've told them. This should be covered under warranty, and they should arrange for someone to come out and fix it.

They're trying to screw you over but don't let them.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

I bought direct. Kind of makes me wish I had gone through a distributor. Wouldn't have been as much of an issue to get tech support.
But, yes, that's what I've told them. This should be covered under warranty, and they should arrange for someone to come out and fix it.

Can your credit card company help?

#25 3 years ago

I'm not ready to get the credit card company involved. I believe Lloyd and Frank are good guys and I know that the company encourages them to help customers help themselves.

But, I think it is plainly evident that this isn't a matter of something shaking loose during shipment. This is a manufacturing issue.

The right thing for them to do would be to send someone out to evaluate and fix it. After all, they boast a network of partners across the US and the rest of the world.

So, I'll give them a chance before I get nasty. But, believe me when I say that they don't want me to get nasty. Just ask Best Buy corporate what happens when I get nasty...

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from netman63129:

Great write-up. I'm like you with your WOZ purchase. Why not wait until the kinks are worked out? I'm curious why you didn't do the same with your TH purchase? Basically, you somewhat invalidate your comparison because you are comparing an early production TH with a late edition WOZ. Nevertheless you have added to my conviction to stay my TH purchase until these types of issues become less frequent. Regarding your mech issue, that does suck. I would ask them for a replacement mech. You never know, it could fix the issue and it would eliminate a lot of other troubleshooting. At minimum, it eliminates one possible fault and you get an extra mech

I got my WOZ late because I ordered late. With Hobbit, I was early on the pre-order process. Got my same LE number, but I was also early in production.

Sending a new mech isn't a bad idea. It's a fairly inexpensive part and would be a super quick swap, if that is the problem. But, 2 adjacent FETs are dead, so there's at least one other mech that doesn't work that I'm unaware of...

#27 3 years ago

It seems like jjp took the decision to ship their pins hastily, maybe because of GB or/and number of preorders cancelled. This is the feeling it gives.

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

It seems like jjp took the decision to ship their pins hastily, maybe because of GB or/and number of preorders cancelled. This is the feeling it gives.

I think they were just ready with parts finally, some manufacture flaws will happen, it's unfortunate. One person I do have a ton of confidence in Is Lloyd. Trust in him and all should end in good results even if it takes longer than one wants.

I know it sucks having a new machine not functioning well out of the brand new box.

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

I think they were just ready with parts finally, some manufacture flaws will happen, it's unfortunate. One person I do have a ton of confidence in Is Lloyd. Trust in him and all should end in good results even if it takes longer than one wants.
I know it sucks having a new machine not functioning well out of the brand new box.

all the more as we all know what can happen with shipping, whatever the pin is new or not.

but the ding in the cabinet with a pristine box is...amazing!

#30 3 years ago

I am really sorry that this is happening to you. This is bad PR for JJP and they need to make this right for you ... without you providing tons of free labor. Stories like this make me wonder about ordering NIB in the future.

I wish you the best in working things out, and hope that JJP does something special for you for your troubles.

#31 3 years ago

I'm in for a Hobbit preorder and as an overseas customer this would be my worst nightmare. For me they have to take the whole machine back.

-28
#32 3 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

But, unfortunately, the mech problem continues to be an issue, and the diverter does not work. This is a pretty significant issue, since that's where it goes for a mode start. All of the connections are tight, so there is a problem somewhere between the board and the coil. They've had me do a bunch of stuff, like re-seat all of the cables, and ground out the transistor to see if the coil fires (it does not).
Basically, the problem is in the wiring, and they seem to think that it should be my responsibility to undo the main artery in the wire harness, dig out all of the wires and test them individually. I'm sorry, but I just dropped $8500 on a new premium pinball machine. It should not fall to me to essentially dismantle a large portion of the underside of the playfield.

It is not relevant what you paid. A $2000 machine and a $10000 machine should both work and be under warranty the same way.

Anyways, pinballs break new or not. It should be on the owner to dismantle wires and trace down issues. It's up to the manufacturer to assist and suggest things and pay for parts. It's up to the owner to do the leg work.

In your case, it doesn't sound too tough. Get your dmm out and set it to DC volts. With coin door closed test red on the coil and black on the ground strap for voltage at the coil. If it's not present, then be tracing wires to that coil from the previous ones and check fuses. It's likely a wire that came off.

If you do have voltage at the coil then it's likely a short between the transistor and the coil - either in the trace from the transistor to the board header or in the wire from the header to the coil. Neither of these are difficult or time consuming to track down. (Maybe 15 minutes of effort here). If you can't be bothered with doing those simple things then perhaps just sell your game.

I'd be much more unhappy having to fill in and redecal part of that cabinet. That seems like a much bigger job.

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

It is not relevant what you paid. A $2000 machine and a $10000 machine should both work and be under warranty the same way.
Anyways, pinballs break new or not. It should be on the owner to dismantle wires and trace down issues. It's up to the manufacturer to assist and suggest things and pay for parts. It's up to the owner to do the leg work.
In your case, it doesn't sound too tough. Get your dmm out and set it to DC volts. With coin door closed test red on the coil and black on the ground strap for voltage at the coil. If it's not present, then be tracing wires to that coil from the previous ones and check fuses. It's likely a wire that came off.
If you do have voltage at the coil then it's likely a short between the transistor and the coil - either in the trace from the transistor to the board header or in the wire from the header to the coil. Neither of these are difficult or time consuming to track down. (Maybe 15 minutes of effort here). If you can't be bothered with doing those simple things then perhaps just sell your game.
I'd be much more unhappy having to fill in and redecal part of that cabinet. That seems like a much bigger job.

What a ridiculous post. Significant issues out of the box (most well beyond what you would expect to see) and you're now suggesting it be sold because he 'can't be bothered'. Perhaps just leave it at offering the help with the wiring instead of commenting further about a situation you know very little about.

-11
#34 3 years ago
Quoted from swampy:

What a ridiculous post. Significant issues out of the box (most well beyond what you would expect to see) and you're now suggesting it be sold because he 'can't be bothered'. Perhaps just leave it at offering the help with the wiring instead of commenting further about a situation you know very little about.

I know something about it. He indicated he can't be bothering tracing some wires or taking apart a wiring harness - something which isn't more than 15-20 mins of effort. This is just part of pinball ownership. So yea, if he can't be bothered doing that sort of thing he should definitely sell and move on.

The other issues I would agree with. But those aren't the issues he is complaining about surprisingly.

11
#35 3 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I know something about it. He indicated he can't be bothering tracing some wires or taking apart a wiring harness - something which isn't more than 15-20 mins of effort. This is just part of pinball ownership. So yea, if he can't be bothered doing that sort of thing he should definitely sell and move on.
The other issues I would agree with. But those aren't the issues he is complaining about surprisingly.

Nope, sorry, but you're way off the mark here. It might be 15-20 mins for you but not everyone has the tech knowledge that you may possess, nor is it a requirement for NIB ownership. Furthermore, kindly point out where the OP has stated he 'can't be bothered'? He has stated that he is time poor.....big difference. Again I suggest you just leave it with the one helpful wiring hint instead of suggesting he sell his new pride and joy after unboxing it some 2 weeks ago, and on top of that writing a really good/constructive review to help other pinsiders.

Enough said. Good luck OP fixing these issues.

18
#36 3 years ago

I would be pretty upset if my brand new $8000 pin needed new decals that I had to put on myself and was not operating out of the box. I think it would be fair to request a new one. They can get the bad one back and fix it and re-sale it. Just a few hundred bucks in shipping cost to eat.

23
#37 3 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Anyways, pinballs break new or not. It should be on the owner to dismantle wires and trace down issues. It's up to the manufacturer to assist and suggest things and pay for parts. It's up to the owner to do the leg work.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

#38 3 years ago

so jjp warranty is parts for the manufacturer and labor for the buyer?

#39 3 years ago

Yeah, I think that is a bunch or horse crap. If I buy a new car and something electrical goes wrong on it upon delivery, does the manufacturer tell me how to fix it or do they fix it themselves? I call complete B.S. on having an owner of a BRAND NEW pin dismantle a bunch of wiring. Sure, things become loose and I think we all know that pinball ownership involves some need to troubleshoot and repair stuff, but that is just plain stupid.

As far as the cabinet, I think they should have sent you a set of RadCals to cover up the defect. At least that is what I would have wanted.

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

It is not relevant what you paid. A $2000 machine and a $10000 machine should both work and be under warranty the same way.
Anyways, pinballs break new or not. It should be on the owner to dismantle wires and trace down issues. It's up to the manufacturer to assist and suggest things and pay for parts. It's up to the owner to do the leg work.

Markmon I get this is your consistent position within many threads - still doesn't make it right.

JJP core value proposition/differentiation to Stern is a premium quality machine. Based on OP well written summary, quality control on the assembly line failed on this one. As others mentioned, we understand when smaller issues arise that's where Lloyd comes in with us to "self help" the small tweaks needed. But at this point in what he's described, JJP would be better served to send a tech out. I disagree a NIB pin should require the owner to dismantle wiring to trace issues - that's not a jostled free in shipping issue. That's the difference - jostled free shipping issue or accountability that you sent a broken product - just fix it or send a tech out.

I know Markmon, I know. Don't buy a pin or collect if you can't fix yourself. NIB my friend, NIB premium quality product. Position it as a Lego then.

I do have confidence JJP will support - I've heard great first hand stories where they have.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from swampy:

Nope, sorry, but you're way off the mark here. .

Actually, he's spot on the MARKmon. This is typical dick posting by markmon. Always better than everyone else, if you can't figure out why your brand new out of the box pin is working, that's your fault! Not the manufacturer.

#42 3 years ago

I think when NIB machines blew by the $5,000 mark much of the clientele, along with expectations, changed quite a bit.

Manufacturers need to build them better, use better materials and pay greater attention to details at these price points.

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from zsciaeount:

So, I'll give them a chance before I get nasty. But, believe me when I say that they don't want me to get nasty. Just ask Best Buy corporate what happens when I get nasty...

This is not an idle threat........I remember that Best Buy incident from Facebook......JJP doesn't want that

#44 3 years ago

Hopefully JJP will get this fixed as it doesn't reflect well on them.

So, were aprons originally metal and already been down graded to plastic?

That would really bug me.

#45 3 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I think when NIB machines blew by the $5,000 mark much of the clientele, along with expectations, changed quite a bit.
Manufacturers need to build them better, use better materials and pay greater attention to details at these price points.

Agreed. It's been an issue for years. My 2010 delivered NIB LOTR LE had several issues out of the box, none of which could be caused by shipping. They even forgot to include the LE certificate, and the manual had incorrect information throughout.

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

As far as the cabinet, I think they should have sent you a set of RadCals to cover up the defect. At least that is what I would have wanted.

... and a free topper to make up for the hours of troubleshooting and the clearly defective playfield glass that got through quality control.

#47 3 years ago

Oh no, this thread has Kaneda podcast written all over it

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from Gov:

This is not an idle threat........I remember that Best Buy incident from Facebook......JJP doesn't want that

TELL US ABOUT THE BEST BUY INCIDENT!!!

#49 3 years ago

Second regarding RadCals being offered by JJP free of charge. Then the gouge could be filled and the RadClas installed over the top. Would look like new.

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from thewool:

TELL US ABOUT THE BEST BUY INCIDENT!!!

I honestly don't remember the details but I remember the OP wasn't happy and I have met the OP in person and I know I wouldn't want him on my bad side

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 42.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 27.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinball Forever
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
There are 118 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside