The scoring is all good for competition and all, but I still like the idea of rewards for completing modes too. They are doing both, which is very good to hear.

Same here. I hope that a tally of stars collected is present on the LCD somewhere.

Keith did provide a timeline at the end of the interview. He said the update will come after Pirates starts shipping and that Keith himself hasn't done the stuff yet with the game that he wants to include in the update. As mentioned previously though by Keith we know that Ted Estes has been working on the update a lot for a couple months and that Joe Katz started rewriting Beast MB last week.

Wow this sounds epic!

I heard a few months. Came up last week on a warranty question for my woz.

Sounds like we are in for a treat in the near future

First just to mention that I love Hobbit and really want it to be amazing.

As far as what it needs the fans have documented this. JJP has to be JJP though and make it their own... But default stacking of modes and MBs needs to be optional. At this point to igone this is just silly to carry this on like its cool.

Reality check. LOTR code is more simplistic than TH but superior in many ways. Not sure whether the stars thing for the modes is enough in terms of variation. This gives the modes more weight but where is the incentive to complete them? To go by completion of MAN, DWARF, etc. seems better to me.

Jury is out but I hope Keith and the team have injected more passion and creativity into the game, like what we are seeing in the Pirates feeds.

Keith said he wanted to do some things of his own too - and he may not have gotten into those things yet. I say we just wait and see where it goes in the next build before determining how effective it could/will be.

It looks like they are taking a good look at the game - and even redoing MB code and several other things. I doubt there will be major changes but there will be substantial changes for sure. Them taking the time to do another big build - and not just a small update or two is a good sign. Even though we have to wait a while longer.

The big incentive for completing modes will be the impact it has to your Arkenstone mode scoring. Complete just an easy 1 star mode, like The One Ring, and Arkenstone scoring won't be as high compared to completing multiple modes with some of a higher star raiting. This will add a risk reward element to the game that currently doesn't exist as well as make completing modes far more valuable.

The star raiting / bonus system being implemented seems similar to what has been done in Dialed In and POTC. In Dialed In you can time out modes to reach 2 of the 3 wizard modes but your wizard mode scoring will be low compared to completing modes which grant a higher scoring multiplier. In POTC the number of standard modes completed for a movie impacts scoring for that movies multiball / mini wizard mode (in addition to number of jackpots collected during multiballs).

I do hope though that some type of reward, even an additional multiplier or points with a visual indicator, is granted for beating sets of types of modes like you mentioned. Personally I would like to see a X number of modes to be completed requirement for the 2nd, 3rd, etc Arkenstone mode as having to repeat the same qualifiers every time gets old.

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about the score I get when I play The Hobbit? For me it is all about progression and the adventure game experience. I want to see how far I can get. Scoring incentives really don't get me hyped for new code. On other games, I play for high score, but LOTR and Hobbit are games that I want to COMPLETE. When I play Into the Fire, I'm trying to get through the mode, see those eagles show up, and nail those victory laps, etc. So, kinda not really excited about the direction Keith is taking The Hobbit. I don't think it needs score balancing/incentives. It needs rule changes that help integrate the modes into the experience/progression of the game. Just my two cents...for what it's worth.

I hear ya there. I care about the same things in terms of progression. I think the big update will provide a good balance of providing rule changes to help progression (There and Back Again, new Beast MB) as well provide scoring opportunities to provide more incentive for completing multiple modes before going into Arkenstone modes. Having a super wizard mode in the game for beating all 31 modes will be huge in terms of progression. I'm sure there's a few other things coming in the update that Keith did not mention on the podcast.

I am just crossing my fingers the TABA wizard mode is for playing 31 modes and not *beating* 31 modes. That just means I will never see it!

Good comments Panzer, I see where is taking it

I also agree with Crime with the comnent that progression and a feeling of adventure should be the focus rather than clinical scoring. Hobbit needs to feel more like LOTR in this respect. When I play this type of game my score is secondary, still important of course. Hope the code enhances this experience.

I couldn’t agree more. This is not a tournament game, so I’m not sure why they’re focusing on scoring strategies. The mentioned star system doesn’t excite me at all. I play for the immersive experience, which is amazing. They just need to make it more cohesive and remove some of the linearity of the game.

I really wish they would let the player decide which Arkenstone Mode they go after and change it so you have to play the regular modes associated with that movie/Arkenstone Mode to qualify it. Maybe increase the number of modes required to start it from 1 to 3 and remove something else from the main 5 qualifiers (feast and/or beast frenzy). This would make you play more of the modes with purpose.

I wonder if the stars give you “credit” for other modes so that you can complete them without literally having to play through all 31. Otherwise the game would last hours and hours. I’ve played for at least 50
Minutes (!!) and still not even completed half the modes, but did make it to Battle of the 5 Armies

Amen to this!

I just want the game to tell me what the heck to do. CAllouts to hit this or hit this or this combo is what's needed. On GB I know exactly what to do cause it tells me. LOTR is really good at showing you what to hit. just my 2 cents

The book instructions really help here for the modes at least. Also learn what the insert colours mean as they are the key e.g. orange are mode shots, purple are dwarves to collect, etc.

I think the game needs completely new direction or at least some direction?

How about dividing the game and modes into 3 sections that relate to the mini wizard modes or even the 3 movies.

Elf
Man
Dwarf

One could select the section that one would want to attack via the mode select button on ball start up. Or elect to play sequentially for a real adventure by not selecting at all just plunge the ball.

New multiballs added to correspond to the section story line.
So no more endless smaug multiballs, beast multiballs etc.

The sections do not have to have the same amount of modes in them but could be considered

Easy
Moderate
Difficult

After completion a section would grey out and you select from the remainder.

All of this leading to a final mode that may or may not have different high value modes in it

Breaking the game up makes it easier to grasp and leads to a feeling of true accomishment.

High scores can be listed out per section and grand champion.

The game as it stands is actually 3 separate games anyway looking at the mini wizard modes or the 3 movies.

I don't really advocate for calling out the shots with vocal cues. I think the book works well. Yeah, I may drain a ball looking at the book, but next time I know better. Games like Dialed In and especially Houdini annoy me with the "shoot the right ramp", "shoot the theater", etc. At first it is nice because you are new to the game...but after one or two games it becomes like nails on a chalkboard. Especially Houdini with that awful voice (my opinion not meant to start a Houdini debate on this awesome Hobbit thread). Unfortunately, I don't think we will see any change in game progression based on Keith's tone/attitude on the Podcast, but I will remain optimistic and can't wait to see what it will turn out to be. I like how Gandalf in the Hobbit only yells out a cue when time is running out.

One thing that hasn't been implemented is the use of any magical or wizard assistance.

There isn't any magical anything in the game yet.

Like smart bombs you could earn it and bank it and then have it available to help complete more difficult modes via the launch button.

Basically when in a terrible crisis ask for help via a wizard or the elves.

It sounded to me like there is an end to the beast multi-ball already, but it is just too hard to achieve. The new update would just reduce the amount of effort required to clear the beasts. Defeating Smaug is achievable, especially without the beasts popping up. So there seems to be a clear strategy of stacking both so that extra balls are in play. First clearing the beasts and then defeating Smaug.

Has anyone been able to defeat beast mulit-ball? I've been to BOFA a few times and defeated Smaug a handful of times, but I've never beat the beasts.

I would really like to see an indication of what modes I have beat in addition to just started. If all the modes actually have to be completed 100%, the TABA wizard mode would be extremely rare (impossible for all but a few) and would take a ton of time. So I'm not sure if it is a worthwhile update. Just starting and timing out the modes would be doable, but maybe not enough accomplishment to be rewarded with a major wizard mode.

Overall, I'm really happy that JJP is taking the time to polish the code. It will make an awesome game even better!

I would just like to see a reason to beat something that ties into game progression, not only scoring.

There is no end to Beast multiball. You can get a super jackpot and end it via the ring button though.

Keith mentioned that Beast MB is getting rewritten. Thank goodness as I personally find that mode rather boring.

We as a group here on pinside and Jjp forum have come up with a ton of great ideas. I don't think Keith is going to implement any of them beyond what he said in the podcast. I don't think Keith likes to rewrite any of his established codes beyond polish. It's really too bad because so many great ideas have been mentioned and there are so many great assets to work with. Besides all that is mentioned would like to see Smaug play a bigger role with more voice material. Hope for the best, and hope not to be disappointed.

Totally agree on Smaug. His voice is epic and should have been used more. When playing I feel like I keep hearing the same few callouts over and over again. I’d get it if he only said a few lines in the film, but there was a huge amount of dialogue between him, Bilbo, and the dwarves. It just feels like a missed opportunity.

I've said this before but when I recently had to reinstall my game. There were Smaug callouts in the early versions of the code which I'm sure I'd never heard before.

Also yeah I hope Keith and JJP are receptive to ideas. Collectively we have spent many more hours on the game than they have, and as a community have made some amazing suggestions.

End of the day it's Keith's vision but from the feedback there are some tweaks that would really open up the gameplay allowing the player more choice, whilst improving overall integration of the modes.

Yeah. I'm still very surprised to this day that a vast majority of lines from the first time that Bilbo and Smaug meet are not in the game.

There's always going to be something we wish would have been added but even if those ideas never get implemented The Hobbit is still one of the deepest pinball machines ever created. In terms of mode variety, and use of licensed assets in modes I can't think of another game that does it better. There's so much material from all 3 movies to use that all of it cannot be put into the game. What's awesome is that we have 31 objective modes with licensed assets + custom music for every mode, and 3 very deep wizard modes with multiple stages featuring licnesed assets. A super wizard mode and more scoring opportunities will be the icing on the cake in my opinion for this pin.

I agree with this. My disappointment is probably more along the lines of, how much better this pin could be.

Probably more accurate to say it's one of, if not the widest pinball machines ever made. That is quite an accomplishment. I suppose it also has some depth in the scoring rules. I guess wanting it to be deep from a game progression standpoint may be asking too much.

Not widest. Same width as any of the Williams DMD era wide bodies.

LTG : )

I think Keith has some ideas where he wants to polish the game. But I don't expect major changes (hope I am wrong). Also, I don't think Keith will use any of the ideas presented in the forum or on pinside to be honest. (Even though I like some that have been given). Keith will do what wants to do with it - and that's that.

That said - I am optimistically hopeful in what JJP and Keith can do. We'll see.

I think the current game code is great and the polish/enhancements that they are talking about will make it even better. I'm looking forward to get it and try it out. I'm not good enough yet to be able to see super wizard "I beat the game" modes, but it'll be good to know that there is something there to shoot for. JJP puts out some great pins.

Thought that comment might be on the horizon.

I wonder if JJP would be willing to give out the source code so that fans can create their own programming. Many of the great ideas identified on Pinside would be easy to implement. I would love to get my little fingers into the code...

Does JJP have open-source hardware?

No.

No.

LTG : )

I posted this on the JJP Google Group. A lot of Hobbit owners have complained about the repetitive nature of making multiple Arkenstone attempts. I think this would be a good compromise as it would leave the original rule structure in place yet give players more options for earning runes towards their 2nd, 3rd, etc Arkenstone mode attempts.

***

I think having to repeat the same qualifiers every time to attempt an Arkenstone mode is one of the last big complaints about the game. Having to repeat all the same qualifiers for Arkenstone mode attempts isn't much fun as it becomes a grind

Here's an idea that would allow for the existing rule flow to stay intact yet give players more ways to qualify for Arkenstone mode attempts. Allow X number of modes completed after playing 1 Arkenstone mode (using regular rune requirements as they are today) to grant a rune towards 2nd, 3rd, etc Arkenstone mode attempts. Players can still play through Smaug MB, Beast Frenzy, etc again if they want to for their 2nd, 3rd, ert Arkenstone attemptd yet would have the choice and incentive to complete more modes instead. This concept would play well into the star raiting bonus system that Keith mentioned as well.

For example say you played 1 Arkenstone mode and now you are back to 0 runes. Instead of having to replay everything to earn runes you could either do that again or play 2 modes to earn a rune, play 2 more to earn another, etc. Then let's say it's your 3rd Arkenstone mode attempt, you can repeat the same things again as they are today or play 3 modes to earn a rune, 3 more to earn another, etc.

Simple but elegant.

Sadly, nothing I've seen suggests they are listening or even care for help. The good thing is that they are better using remodels and redoing beast mb. The anything that limits hitting those polyps is a good thing from a gameplay and reliability standpoint.

Had a cracking game tonight completed into the fire AND Barrel escape and I’m pretty sure I got close to completing Battle of five armies too. A good 3.5mil game. Time to move the game on though

Not waiting until the next code drop? That’s what I’m waiting on...

I feel the same way.
I love the game but I feel it needs a complete re-vamping to make it world class.

Im waiting for the code to be updated to decide whether I sell it off.
Im optimistic though about the code being worked on, I hope that it saves this game.
Its too bad that such an amazing game has received so little attention after seeing what what accomplished on the WOZ in so little time.

I’ll make my decision to keep it or sell it after the next code drop. I think many owners are at this point, which is why I think JJP will have good update for the next release.

If not, it’s gone

A big problem I notice when running modes is the beasts popping up and blocking shots ... a lot of these issues can easily be alleviated simply by disabling the beast rollovers when a mode is active.

I think this is intentional, they are supposed to be nuisance beasts trying to mess you up.

Either or. Sell to buy another game. Trade to get another game. Same end really

I don’t think the next code drop will make it an amazing game. It has all the frame work, the bricks are up, windows are in and just the fixtures are left to put in. I think Keith just has polish and tweaks left for the game. Don’t get me wrong the call outs are awesome, the light show for killing Smaug is great and same with the majority of the light show tbh but it’s just missing that something.

I think WOZ just has the it factor with the layout and the code being great. I don’t think I’ll even get to somewhere over the rainbow but I can dream... I have been to Battle of five armies twice in about 20 or so games. Getting to Into the fire is more of a rush for me than Bofa! Just the music and the call outs for me in into the fire are spot on. And when you kill Smaug that’s a pretty cool bit too but I’ve done it and I don’t feel like I need to do it again...

Furthermore to the above I’ve been to BOFA and killed Smaug and the game to me feels like I can do that ALMOST EVERY game! ALMOST! And I think what kind of kills my enjoyment. I don’t want to get to the wizard mode or close to the end of the game every game. LOTR for me is the better if the two worlds because you can play 2/3 of the movie multiballs and maybe get to destroy the ring every other 10 or 20 games and it’s an achievement instead of feeling like it’s a given. That’s the feeling I get. Just me