Yes.

But then I am biased.

Play them both if you can. Get the one you like.

LTG : )

Hobbit was on pretty basic software a couple of months ago when it started shipping.
1 big update every 4~5 weeks since then.
It need 2 big updates to go (Last Arkenstone mode, and final wizard) and then its technically 100% done - as in, everything is in there.
From there the updates would just be tweaks and adjustments to scoring, sounds, modes, etc.

I don't think you should not buy Hobbit if the only reason is the software not being complete. Its not a basic game, so at 95% it still has Triple the amount of modes etc then a standard pinball. Just play both and see which one you like more! Killing Beasts or Killing Witches!

Cut us short on the code? You're kidding right? I think you should just get WOZ to be honest ...

How could they short cut you ? Hobbit started shipping. First update was about 3/4ths of a GB, last update was about 1 1/4 GB.

5% left. Game is great as is.

You best play one before 9K pop.

LTG : )

I would get woz I feel the rules are little more deep than hobbit and I think woz has more toys and gimmicks in it.

I have both but haven't gotten as much time on hobbit (obviously). My initial impression is that woz is still maybe the pinnacle? It just seems to have everything! It's so jam packed with...everything.

Hobbit sounds and vids are cooler though. Having Gandalf tell you he "knew you could do it" feels great!

Two very different games! Play them both a lot. Just be sure you have some quality time with each title before deciding.

So far JJP has been excellent at updating WOZ and TH. I'd personally be shocked if TH doesn't end up being one, if not the #1 deepest and f the most supported pins ever made. No I'm not a total JJP fanboy who believes that JJP are a "perfect" company. However, I don't think I'm being unrealistic though to expect anything but cont'd greatness re: software for TH. That said I currently like WOZ a little more than TH. However as the software gets updated and I get more games on TH that might and likely could change. Play both if you can and both are excellent pins, IMO.

I think if I were to buy one of these two right now, I would get a WOZ. Having played both a bunch, WOZ's layout, more colorful playfield artwork, gameplay, and deeper code appeal to me more. TH is a beautiful game with plenty of potential code-wise, but it just hasn't thrilled me yet.

I have both, but it's still hard to compare since I've had WOZ for 2 and half years and Hobbit for just a little over a week. You're not going to go wrong with either game. WOZ is absolutely amazing with an incredibly deep ruleset. Hobbit IMO is equally amazing, and right now I definitely like Hobbit better. But it's also new and I like the theme better than WOZ. The way the playfield is lit on Hobbit is almost perfect. It's nice and bright and can be played in a dark room without a problem. WOZ is hard for me to play in a dark room because the playfield is too dark. I think the code depth of Hobbit will equal or exceed WOZ when it's completed. If I could only keep one, right now it'd definitely be the Hobbit, but again it's much newer for me.

Bottom line is you're not going to go wrong either way. Pick one and enjoy!

Ccbiggs I have an answer for you that will solve your problems.
Buy them both...you can't go wrong!

I don't think you can go wrong with either. I bought WOZ over Hobbit this summer probably simply because I had more play time on it. The short amount of time I played hobbit wasn't enough for me to really get into it. If I were to decide again it would be closer but WOZ would definitely still win for me. While hobbit is an amazing game and a ton of fun... To me WOZ is simply perfection.

Another vote for WOZ.

Why can't your grasp that shorter time game has been out does not always equal bad/less code? If it's 95% complete that means they just did it quickly, not that they necessarily "forgot" to add features or something, like an non-existent 150%.

Or, buy Hobbit now, trade it in for WoOz when ready to let go of Hobbit. Win, win. Happy, happy. Joy, joy.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Was is a similar situation two months ago. Played them both a bunch, and ended up buying wozrr (despite my family being tolkein nerds). So far happy with the decision.

WoZ

Have both. Love both. They are easily the most played games in my gameroom. If i had to choose, it would be WOZ by a hair. However, that could change as hobbit code reaches the end. WOZ reminds me of a modern day TZ which I also have and love. Hobbit has that epic quest feel to it that hits home. It has that LOTR quest vibe. Destroying Smaug is a rush. Both are top notch games.

I've played both and I would go with WOZ. You can probably also find a VERY nice HUO at a reasonable price.

Yeah I own hobbit and I love it, that said my next pin will be WOZ or JJP#3

Woz hand's down.

Same here. I own both also and agree so far. If you love multiball - go for Hobbit.

We have both, and absolutely love both. Woz wins for me. It's my favorite pin ever, but hobbit is a close second. Both are very different thankfully. Hobbit is chaos disguised as a slow start. We love it. These both trump anything else I've had in my collection and are both the big hit at all my parties. I do think woz is deeper and more difficult. Hobbit will be pretty deep when done and is a more forgiving table. Again, play both more then decide.

Wizard of Oz:
- Complete and DEEP rule set that mere mortals will never complete.
- Jam packed and brimming with toys
- More stop and go than flow.

Hobbit:
- Good rule set that, judging by the history of Wizard of Oz and Keith Johnson, will likely get code updates for a while. If you like code updates, you could be experiencing Christmas morning over and over again for a couple of years.
- More open playfield. It still is rich with features compared to Stern machines, but it does not seem jam packed like Wizard of Oz.
- More flow with two great Fish Tales style ramps

If you can imagine owning Lord of the Rings someday, consider getting the Hobbit. The pair of Lord of the Rings and Hobbit would represent not just the complete movie series, but a pair of matching machines with rulesets conceived by Keith Johnson. I wonder if Keith Johnson has or will put in easter eggs referencing his earlier work on Lord of the Rings?

I like the Woz better but to me they are basically the same game. All Lights on or off, Tons of multiballs and just mass confusion on where to shoot the ball next. IMO the first is always the best! I wish they would have done something completly different with Hobbit but in my 10 to 12 games played I think they are too similar to own both. Not so bad to own 2 sterns or williams games at $4K each instead of one JJP at 9K. Since I have owned nearly every "good" game made since 1990 I would suggest spending 9K on 3 or 4 games and really stretch out your pinball enjoyment.

Favorite Sterns are Family Guy and Lord of the Rings 4000 to 5000 each. Metallica and GOT are also great games at 4K

Favorite Williams Games No Good Golphers and NBA Fastbreak 2500 to 3500 each.

or just drive 30 minutes from Arnold and pay me $20 and play all my games at no additional charge
www.cppinball.com

WoZ. Hands down. Currently, I own both.

Brian

WOZ is the best game JJP has ever manufactured.

We looked at both for hours, which became days, before finally choosing TH. Went into the process thinking we would buy STLE or Tommy, but WOZ and TH are so obviously the best tables presently made that we knew it had to be one of them. Finally we chose TH because it feels like a journey, is a warm and beautiful design, is so complex and challenging, and to be honest because screaming witches - even high fidelity 75th anniversary witches - is just too much after a while. Both machines are great. Both are frustratingly awesome to play. But we made the gamble too that while WOZ will long be remembered as amazing, TH is just ascending to where we think it will end up: as the best cinematic pinball game ever made. Who knows? Anyway haven't regretted it yet. It doesn't get old.

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Hmmmm

I can see how some may have reservations about the build quality of JJP pins, but I think they are one of the best built (if not best). I have been concerned about Sterns build quality and materials for a couple of years now - and Stern hasn't done much to make me feel better about it. Stern certainly makes really fast and fun pins, but I am still concerned. Perhaps it is perception and not reality, but just the way I see it.

Supposed mechanical reliability concerns (or not) for JJP's games aside, I was inferring from the post that I quoted that the poster was using the term "best" from an overall standpoint. While WOZ and TH have many attributes, to proclaim them to be the best games currently made is highly subjective at the very least.

The jury is out for my subjective opinion at least until I get my TBL.

They only made 2. but man the build quality.

I own an ECLE and the build quality seems to really be all there and JPP seems to really follow thru with code.The machine is a tank.I also own a GOT Premium and I just dont see the quality with the Stern and well the code issues goes without saying.I mean... my Metallica has a plastic apron for crying outloud!
I do enjoy the games just as much as the other.

Yes, the overall quality of materials seems to be lacking in most Stern machines.

How much was your WoZ & Metallica?

well, straight up MET is cheaper, but WOZ costs less per part, per line of code, and certainly per pound.

I have both games and I like them both for completely different reasons. WOZ is bright, colorful and fun for everyone. Hobbit really feels more like a "shooters" game. You have to follow the shots to get the game really going. WOZ everything just seems to fall in place with just general play.

Does any of that even make sense?

I guess what you are trying to say is for 4600.00 or so dont expect a quality procduct anymore?

Im saying for $4600 Metallica Pro is a pretty good game. When JJP makes a game for $4600 that is as fun let me know. Yes for the money JJP makes a very good game but they are far from bulletproof right out of the box.

Build quality on modern sterns is just not that great. Buying new from them is a crap shoot. Decal issues, board problems, and now playfield problems. Not that jjp has not had teething issues either flaking pfs and teething problems with their boards too. Fit and finish would go to JJP even comparing an LE to a standard woz/hobbit.

Gameplay wise? Metallica Pro/LE, Walking Dead LE, and Star Trek Pro/LE all rank higher than TH. MET PRO/LE and Star Trek LE still beat out Woz.

Met Pro seems like a much better buy on several levels.

+1 for Hobbit

I agree with you 100% on this,it's a blast of game and keeper for sure.

As an owner of met, woz, and TH I can give my unbiased opinion. Metallica pro is awesome. Best bang for buck of all sterns IMO. Love it. That said, after I have a blast playing it for awhile and admire it's full beauty, I go over to the jjp games and it suddenly feels like metallica isn't even close in any form or fashion other than just being fun. Not knocking sterns, but man the details, looks, quality and depth of gameplay on both of jjps blow stern away. Since owning jjps pins, I basically only play my sterns when I want a fast play due to time limitations or simply to change things up. The jjp games have so much more to go for and work towards. I'll probably never sell my metallica or acdc, but they would go before either jjp for me. Not to mention the amount of attention/play the jjps get compared to my sterns at my parties. Price is high obviously, but I can see why they cost more than a stern. Now of course, I will buy another stern once they announce star wars. Lol. Woz over hobbit btw due to its the total package you'll probably never see again in a new pin.

Hobbit easy for me. Haven't played it much but it made me want to play it more. I've been forced to play WOZ many times and haven't wanted to since it's release.

I'm leaning towards TH but not just because I own one. I've put a decent amount of time on WOZ and was close to getting one because it is the total package. But when the opportunity to grab TH presented itself I just pulled the trigger almost instinctively and have no regrets. The game is amazing. And it's not even finished yet which makes me even more excited to own this game.

Hobbit. Played both and love both and that is the right choice to be making - they are both amazing and will only get more valuable and more fun. In the end Hobbit is far more engaging to me and everyone I have met who has played both. TH literally feels like a new game every time you master another layer of the complex game rules. Eventually you can grasp and monitor all the things going on at once, the dwarves on the screen, the changing modes and the chapters in the book but it isn't easy and it feels "meta"; like you are actually on a quest not just playing a game about one . The score is beautiful and the pin just looks beautiful even when off. The attract more is actually attractive - while WOZ is kinda, well, shrill.

There are so many great shots, too; don't be led astray on that. The E, the barrels, a loop. And the fact that it is so hard to control the ball after the spider and warg shots keeps you laser focused on the ball even when just tooling around in the middle.

I do want to have both pins, if it rains money. I saw an autographed blue/green WOZ in Milford CT and it blew me away but TH is an easy choice in the end. And it is shocking that it isn't ranked far higher on the top 100, but I assume that is because it got torched when it was first released. It will make its way up soon I suspect. My point being that it will end up being as or more collectible than WOZ. imho.