I think this all boils down to faith in what JJP is doing and the man himself, these are variables that just don't really work in a strict business sense. Jack has my trust, and I genuinely believe in what he is doing, it was exactly the opposite with Gene and BBB, and Wayne and his projects. I was wrong on BBB, and considering I was in the audience at Expo in 2004 when he announced them, it's a decision I've greatly regretted

I would have preferred to wait on The Hobbit until I had my WOZ, but putting down a refundable deposit of $1500 now on TH doesn't seem like much of a gamble to me, so I'm in for now, same approach I took with WOZ, if I like what I see I'll stay in, if not, get my deposit back. Time is not a factor, pinball money comes from discretionary income for me, as I think it does for most of us, don't look at how much interest I could make on it, it's not much these days anyway. The payment plan actually helps me greatly, as other pin deals are always coming my way, I doubt I would have the self discipline to keep the money separate, so having the payments locked in keeps me from getting in too deep.

I'm not sure where this is all headed, but I just met what you would have to consider to be a proto-typical nouveau riche pin collector, and what he considers good value compared to me is light years apart, he'll spend more in the first 2 years of collecting than I did in the first 20 As long as they are out there, prices are going to continue to rise!!

That car actually increased for two years because the demand was higher than the supply. Just like you said though, most will drop. Some will actually go up. We do not know where this one will go. We will not know for a year+.

All this tank about Sterns costing too much. Nobody talks about the great resale value. I realize this is a extreme example but my Tron LE is worth 4K more than I paid for it. My POTC sold for a hundred less and my Iron man sold for two hundred less than I paid for it. Pretty good if you ask me.

Pappy

What about Xmen? There are more NIB that go down than up.

Xmen will come back up with code. Even the much not loved Wheel of Fortune is now being discovered and sought after.

X-Men hasn't even been out for a year, and its code updates haven't been released yet. When it comes to "value"..the book is not closed on that one....or any game that's still in production, for that matter. You see cheap X-Mens now because some owners have run out of patience. Understandable, but it has no bearing on the game's reputation years from now.

Exactly. I bought WOF for $2400 closeout NIB in '09 or '10. Today it's worth more, even out of the box.

So why are you trying to put a value on WOZ and Hobbit. By your own admission they need to be out for a while before we can close the book on it. WOZ is worth more now then it was.

I was? I'm not Neo.

I guess that should have said we need to wait based on your thoughts to assign value.

Rare, how the flippers looking? I remember your dropped WOZ you had because the flippers should have been sorted first and you were not feeling it.

Don't know that he's played it since. I do know strength adjustment is in code now (maybe not all over yet), and eventually I'd like him to try one again to see if there's any marked improvement.

Eh. It's a bit of a stretch to compare its value today to that of the rock-bottom blowout of one distributor. The game sells today for less than what the vast majority paid for it -- high 2k-ish vs $3500+.

And what of Transformers? I have a few bummed-out friends who own LEs that have dropped what, 2k in value?

Hey dg, can you share any info as to what you saw and to your thoughts on continued rise in prices, sorry to steer off our thoughts on the Hobbit's $7500 pre order discussion but you have really peaked my interest.

Nobody lost $2k on TF unless they paid full retail price.

TF still seems to sell at close to $5k. I think most of them were $5800.00-5900.00 on pre-order?

Eric has one on pinside, an autobots le, for 4700 and no takers yet....

Got to play it in Breckenridge last year, next to lotr and SM, looked awesome, played awful...came home and bought SM!

I'd have to play it again in person. I'm sure they'll be fine. I had more issues with the game besides the flippers. No regrets on getting a refund. Looking forward to The Hobbit, though...just refuse to pre-order before it's designed and won't be available till 2014 (or 15? Lets be realistic). And yes - I did that with WOZ...but it was a different time. I wanted to support Jack and what he was doing....and I still do...just not with money until a game is designed.

Just like Pinball Sales/Shufflealley.com's Parker Bohn III teevee upgrade kit?

Transformers LE was $5600 NIB if you knew where to buy from. Retail was higher. Why should anyone be bummed if the game they own and like loses value? Who the hell cares? If you like the game, so what. Value means nothing until your looking to sell. Or (in my case) it becomes so valuable, that you can't refuse the offers to sell.

If you start looking at pinball as an investment, your looking at it the wrong way. Espeically for NIB. Which 92% of the time means a loss. LE's have a little higher ratio to this, because they are designed to be more collectable sooner. But even that formula doesn't always work. RS LE, Avatar LE, TF LE. Striker Extreme LE. Ect....

You chose... Wisely.

I remember making this argument before X-Men came out and got taken to the mat by Samuel L. Jackson Avatar (whatever his handle is) and others. Fact of the matter is pump and dump doesn't always work and I refuse to pay prime for a game that is poorly made and price jacked up simply because you can. I agree JJP is not giving these games away, is making a profit but at least i dont feel like I am getting abused.

Did anyone else feel like the Hobbit movie was VERY similar to the Lord of the Rings? It's like you are watching the same movie written slightly different, but essentially the same.

I felt like I was watching a really terrible version of LOTR while watching The Hobbit.

That was foreplay.

The buildup, plot twists, climax, orgasm, and Smaug in pt 2 and 3 will make up for it

I was dissapointed in the Hobbit. Too much plot was not in the book. Expecially the story of the white orc. I know these were taken from the appendixes, but still.... I still love LOTR as one of my favorite trilogies....

I didn't think hobbit was bad at all. I enjoyed it. Had issues with 2 parts on how they did speech and dialogue. But it's minor and didn't ruin the whole movie for me. But I love the LOTR universe, So I can let a little more things slide.

I really enjoyed The Hobbit. Going back to Middle Earth was like visiting with old friends again. Looking forward to the 2nd film at the end of the year.

Dear Lord ... does anyone els not think that $7500 for a Pinball game is a little outta control??

Only if the game is built like it should be worth $4500, see Stern LE's

Are Jersey Jack machines that much better? I haven't been able to play one yet....

They are undoubtedly built to a higher standard of parts and workmanship.

Who knows?

They have just had the all clear on all the electrics and emissions tests. The game can officially be sold anywhere in the world now. Games are going to be shipped in 4 weeks, not 4 months, not 4 years. I don't get the doubters? The game is built and finished, you can go play one in 20 different places of you want. We have seen hundreds and hundreds of machine cabinets, playfields and parts in the factory being put together. All we are waiting for is the software which now has 4 programmers working on it and, if you watch the latest software video you can see its coming together nicely. Modes are there, sounds are there, videos are there.

Yes $7500 is crazy money for most if not all games. Rare exception would be something awesome that there are only 1 or 2 of. If you sit back and think how many other great titles you can buy for that $7500, and you use it for one NIB. It is crazy in the grand scheme of things. You could buy 5 other games. 5 games are always going to have more replay value and fun over 1 game. Every time. No matter what the game is. If you play it often enough, it's going to get boring and your going to want some variety.

I do believe they've quite some games ready to ship if the pcb/boards have arrived. I haven't seen modes yet though... but maybe I've missed it.
Besides that I haven't seen software anywhere near completion, doesn't mean it's not there: I could see a point in having the software way further along than shown for:
a) they want to test everything more first
b) they want to surprise us with the 'official release'

They are still made from crummy Williams parts, so don't expect anything better.

Amen to that!

But I sure would like to see a JJP quality build a few grand less though. The recent pin mania and crazy selling price on older machines is keeping these in range for me. I'm not sure how anyone just getting into the hobby that isn't rich can afford to buy one.

I'd rather have a new Harley for half price.

LTG : )

Read the reports from Expo on how JJP people had to constantly fix ball hang-ups. Now, you'll say, "It's just a prototype. You can't judge quality from a prototype." And I'll reply, "Exactly!"

=)

Are they still having hangups with the current version of the protos out now? I have not been able to play one but nobody has mentioned anything in months about that. It would seem that they fixed them.

I don't know if they've been to a big show lately where lots of pinheads attend. Besides, you need neutral people to give it a fair review. Fanbios would never report problems. Haters would make up problems. I'll give an example, a pin went to a distrib and about 7 or 8 people here posted how beautiful it was, bla bla bla. A couple said there was absolutely no problem with the flippers. Someone I know who has one on order told me there was most definitely a power problem with the flippers. Again, he has one on order but he is a realist (not a fanboi.)

Point again is, too early to say it's of impeccable quality or completely lacks quality.

next up the ohio show.......Sure there will be a few comments made on the forum about the game.

No offense but, have you missed all the JJP posts about the build quality of WOZ this past year?

Time will tell. I'm optimistic.

None whatsoever. Last one I had was an airball over the Winkie DT but that was fixed with a longer clear plastic in testing.

Can't wait to play your machine, Pin! (and get some legs done...)