We've seen a sale go through on Pinside on a GBLE that was above sale price already.

As the risk of getting a thumbs down from PanzerFreak, I don't think that comparing TH to LOTR is a good idea. LOTR has way better shots, more shots, and a faster flow to it. After the early dust settles, people are going to realize that you get a much deeper experience with LOTR. Both might end up with very deep code and rulesets, but only LOTR has a variety of shots to carry the game to all-time great status.

Comparing WoZ to LOTR is more apt.

And that's why I say "after the early dust settles." TH does a good job grabbing you early on, but after you've bashed your 10,000th pop up and hit those ramps, which is the same shot from each flipper, 500 times, it starts to feel fairly rote.

TH isn't a bad game, but it is going to be a case of a deep ruleset with a simple shot layout. Long ball times leveraging a smaller set of shots.

There's nothing wrong with liking or not liking something. The key is all in how it's expressed. If you can give reasons why you don't like something, that's fair criticism. If you just hate on something because of the manufacturer's logo, or if you love it for the same reason, that's not helpful for discussion at all.

Yeah, that's true of every game, but limited shot maps speed up the process. That's the big worry about The Hobbit. There's a lot of stuff to see in regards to modes, but the same few shots are recycled more often or they have to shoehorn multiple shots into one (lock and mode start on the right ramp, for example).

I've played it on location, at several shows, and a home machine. The home one played best, for sure, but my problems haven't been with setup. I'm just at a point where I favor challenge and variety of shots over long, story-driven experiences. I love LOTR, and still consider it a top 10 game for me, but I got to the point where I didn't need to play a single game for 30 minutes every time I stepped to it. I'll always play one if I find it on location or at a friend's house, but I just couldn't handle the long ball times. The Hobbit is even more forgiving of a game than LOTR and offers less in regards to shot variety.

Hmmm, that's not a bad comparison, actually.

Not when the shots are so few that you're re-using the same shots all the time. Do we really need Bash the Orc or Kill the Spider modes when you're constantly doing that anyway? Would it be better to have a mode start scoop rather than doubling up on the lock shot and having to do a weird "delay" lock button that sometimes is actually acting as something else itself? The small variety of shots forces some clumsy multi-use scenarios at times.

Sure, Keith is coding is butt off and doing a good job, but he has a limited canvas compared to what he was given with WoZ.

But there are more shots on LOTR so there's more to shoot for in the end, and you don't have stupid little pop ups blocking the next shot you need to make, either. And the ramps are different shots from each flipper on LOTR, whereas the ramps on The Hobbit are the same. There's little satisfaction in ramp shots on The Hobbit because they're so wide and left and right are the exact same shot.

TH is nothing like LOTR other than overlapping theme, to be honest. It's definitely not a suped up version of LOTR when it has less going on under the glass in regards to shots and toys.

Modes like "Kill the Orc" are superfluous. We already kill the Orc over and over. Let's not dedicate a mode to it. So yeah, there's 31 modes, but what's the point of a mode like that one? It's to extend the list of modes, essentially. It's filler.

It sort of is a fan, just not a very populated one...

You're a little unhinged.

The Hobbit very well could become a good game. Comparing it to an all-time classic, which doesn't really share any similarities, doesn't really work though, especially when the game has a lot of refinement left to go. I feel like WoZ is a modern take on TZ, for example. I can't really compare TH to much, and that's probably a good thing! Unique stuff is what we need. The LOTR comparison, however, just isn't appropriate.

But yeah, I do hate the pop ups. Fun for a little while, just in the way after too long.

RobT complaining about people endlessly spouting negative opinions is the most hypocritical thing ever.

Bang.

Um, you guys, the Bally/Williams core is at Stern. Stern these days is basically an extension of the B/W legacy. Lyman, Ritchie, Freres, Gomez, Trudeau, and many other B/W members continued on at Stern.

JJP is as much Stern as it it Bally/Williams.

The industry is incestuous. They all are a giant mash-up of Data East, Sega, Stern, Gottlieb, Bally, Williams, Capcom, and Chicago Coin anyway.

That Rob...he mad. He's right, we do know him. We all know RobT.

Stern's cost cutting and higher margin chasing gives them a Data East feel with a B/W layout. It's weird. JJP definitely chases, and actually surpasses, that B/W quality feel far more aggressively.

I don't know how a company staffed by former Williams designers, artists, and programmers would create something that is totally devoid of similarity. I think you're wanting there to be a lack of similarity for some reason, but I don't know why anybody would care.

I'm in for doing nothing. He's been on my nuts for a while, so i decided to give it back for once. I'm done and have already been ignoring anything he posts for a while. I don't have any interest in Internet slap fights.