Wtf is your point besides the obvious?

Onward and upward

All that matters is those with Hobbits enjoy their pins.

Yes you hate the Hobbit, oh how we know it and know how you despise it. There's no shots on the game, the pop ups are stupid, ramps are dumb, everything is boring, drop targets meh, heck there's nothing on the playfield either even though the game weighs in at 350 lbs, etc. My goodness why was TH ever made, its so damn bad! I've finally seen the light and I'm selling my game ASAP! lol

Why have a ramp that is used in a mode when it's used during regular gameplay right? Those modes in LOTR that require ramps to be made are just filler then right? Same for its shots. We already hit the ramps / shots over and over, let's not dedicate a mode to them...even if those modes have different rules, audio and animations then hitting them in normal play. My goodness what was Keith Johnson ever thinking!?

Seriously, you understand nothing about the rules of The Hobbit because you have already made up your mind that you hate it.

p48uldt_(resized).jpg

Are you insane?

WPT is designed by Steve Ritchie. So is Flash. They have nothing in common.

This comparison makes absolutely no sense and it disgusts me. It's like idiocy on steroids!!!!

The Hobbit is more like Fish Tales quaaludes.

I have owned LOTR twice; and have put more than enough time on The Hobbit (sorry Panzer, Sky, etc), but these two pins are worlds apart. LOTR is fun, fast, has great code and is a much better table than the Hobbit for overall gameplay. The ramps on TH do remind me a bit of Fish Tales; but overall, the Hobbit is slow, floaty and simply not much fun. Perhaps further code will provide a moderately better experience; but it won't make the pin flow any better or create interesting interactive shots. We all know it's a matter of opinion and this is just mine. I think when all is said and done a year from now, LOTR will still likely be a top title and The Hobbit will be as it sits now.

Levi, who is taking about Steve Ritchie, Flash, or WPT?

Do you think if you bring up irrelevant stuff it proves you are right?

It's okay to be wrong sometimes.

What's the difference between an interactive shot and a non interactive shot? Is that like phantom flip on MB?

You're a little unhinged.

The Hobbit very well could become a good game. Comparing it to an all-time classic, which doesn't really share any similarities, doesn't really work though, especially when the game has a lot of refinement left to go. I feel like WoZ is a modern take on TZ, for example. I can't really compare TH to much, and that's probably a good thing! Unique stuff is what we need. The LOTR comparison, however, just isn't appropriate.

But yeah, I do hate the pop ups. Fun for a little while, just in the way after too long.

Hey, I've owned LOTR twice as well over the years! The two pins are not worlds apart. LOTR is a great pin, one of the best ever made in my opinion. However, I find The Hobbit to be on another level and Keith isn't even done with the code yet. Everything I enjoy about LOTR is due to Keith's incredible ruleset and audio work done by Chris Granner. Without Keith's rules LOTR wouldn't be the pin it is today.

TH comes a decade after LOTR with the same programmer doing the code only this time there's will are 31 main modes versus 6 (plus multiple wizard modes), David Thield (one of the best sound engineers in pinball) on the games audio + a major Hollywood music production company creating the games music (Two Steps From Hell), a more loaded playfield and far newer tech (main LCD display, mini playfield LCD, RBG lighting, stereo sound, etc). The Hobbit pinball seems like an evolution of an already incredibly well made Middle Earth themed pin.

So yes, for me and many others TH pinball is LOTR on steroids

I think people are cool with you loving the pin. But you seem determined to convince people they too must feel the same way. One question: why do you care so much? If you love, play it. No need to constantly fight for it like it's some political candidate or religion.

Nah, I understand that some people are not going to like the game, that's normal. I'm not out to convince anyone, especially those that no matter what you say won't ever like the game. However, I can certainly provide my opinion of why I think the game is fun, has a lot of shots, mode variety, etc when I have to read the same negative comments over and over again.

It's cool to have an opinion but this is stated as fact and is false. The hobbit is neither slow nor floaty.

The problem is that the game comes with all 4 leg levelers at the same level so the game is around a 5 degree pitch. Any game is slow and floaty in that state. Crank up the levelers in the back and lower them in the front just like any other game and the thing comes alive. In this case, it's neither slow nor floaty. If you still hate it, sounds great but let's make sure we aren't stating incorrect facts.

The hobbit is not slow and it is not floaty.

That's for ease of installation and set up.

Yeah, I agree with point that from player's perspective, LOTR and TH are about as far apart as they can be. One is fan and flow. The other is a dynamic shooting gallery/whack-a-mole with steel balls. One is wide, the other standard. One is DMD, the other LCDx2. One is Stern, the other JJP. One is two flipper, the other three. One has miniplayfield (though I despise PotD...), the other none.

As different as can be.

Basis of comparison is Keith and license. That's about it.

Still fun to do it for license's sake, but hard to take seriously.

Hard for me to find good game to compare TH with, at least from DMD/LCD generations. Drop targets dance as do the trollheads like no other. WB. Ring button different too.

Really an interesting pin.

I like LOTR as well, but if you gave me a chance to choose a free Hobbit or a free LOTR I would go with Hobbit - I really dig JJP's pins.

If you were to give me a free NIB TRON LE or the Hobbit I would go with TRON LE

Well, yes. It's worth the most money, isn't it?

Even if one prefers TH, one woukd choose TronLE-NIB, sell it, buy TH, and pocket the cash difference, wouldn't they?

It's interesting you should mention that. I was thinking about buying that NIB Tron LE. If I was to let it sit in the box and simmer, in a few years I could probably trade it for two TH.

Like Jar155 is determined to convince people that they too must feel the same as him? Panzer and Jar155 are making polar opposite arguments with high frequency and I don't think it's fair to single just Panzer out here. Both have points that make sense from their own perspectives and both are trying to get them across passionately.

My levelers were not pre installed from the factory, they were in a separate bag.

You would think they could go the extra mile. I remember setting up my friends WOZ on my hands and knees pushing it up on my back. No wonder it took them so long to get the legs on.

But I did it without any steroids.

Like a regular warrior. On steroids!

warrior_(resized).jpg

This coming from a guy who has started posts with the clever "ok, we get it, you hate hobbit" gambit about 356 times.

Also, hobbit has about zero things in common with Lotr (beyond both being pinball machines) so claiming one is just a better version than the other makes absolutely zero sense.

Finally, someone who has proper flow of oxygen to his brain has chimed in. Thanks bro!

Comparing two pinball machines is not worth getting disgusted about. There are much more important things in this world.

I see both sides to this discussion. From a playfield point of view, they two machines are VERY different, and cannot be compared. But of course people are going to compare the two due to licensing alone (and the same programmer). And while the playfield may be different, I can see some code similarities...modes based on the scenes in the movies, three big multiball modes based on each movie (I am guessing, only one implemented), etc.

I've seen people compare TSPP and LOTR based primarily on the fact that they are deep games coded by Keith, but they are very different layouts. Again, I don't think comparing two machines is anything to get upset about.

I like ya CrazyLevi, but I don't think this fight it worth it...

For me, there's some Kaneda left on my shoes. It's a little disappointing as I just got new carpets.

It's cool to have an opinion but this is stated as fact and is false. The hobbit is neither slow nor floaty.
The problem is that the game comes with all 4 leg levelers at the same level so the game is around a 5 degree pitch. Any game is slow and floaty in that state. Crank up the levelers in the back and lower them in the front just like any other game and the thing comes alive. In this case, it's neither slow nor floaty. If you still hate it, sounds great but let's make sure we aren't stating incorrect facts.
The hobbit is not slow and it is not floaty-:

Hey Markmon, it's cool for you to have an opinion as well. However, I didn't state my opinion as fact but as just an opinion; and in my estimation, the Hobbit is not all that fun. The pin does look both beautiful and impressive and perhaps further code releases can bring it alive.

They are both based on the same fairy tale.

Don't all NIB games come with the leg levelers all the same? The first thing I do is set the pitch and level the game when I'm setting up a NIB. I have never heard of anyone just bolting the legs on a new game and playing it without setting the pitch and level.

How the f*ck are you allowed to keep posting in Hobbit threads?

Jesus fucking Christ. I was ejected from a Hobbit thread for WAY less than the crap that you are constantly spewing, and that was despite the fact that I was always interested in buying the pin. You? Biggest JJP/Hobbit troll ever, with zero interest in the pin. Yet, somehow, the mods allow you to continue posting in Hobbit/JJP threads as you please with nothing constructive to offer...ever.

Rob I wouldn't take it so personally. You're getting a Hobbit right? You'll enjoy it and that's all that matters. Nobody really believes TH will sell for less than LOTR.

What's always confused me is this: the Hobbit has played really slow and floaty at shows / expos and during many of those set ups, Jack himself set the pin up. We all know it's hard to break a pins reputation if the first impression is that it's floaty and slow. Owners have played around with pitch and flipper strength to make the pin come alive. Just wish that was the case from day 1.

We're all prematurely judging The Hobbit. Once code is done, then we'll know for sure how great it is.

You stated that the hobbit is slow and floaty. It's not. The rest is your opinion and is totally valid / your right. The problem isn't that the game is slow and floaty. It's that it's always set up so flat that in that set up its slow and floaty. I have no idea why hobbit is always set up so flat compared to other games. I've gotten on my hands and knees and cranked up the levelers on games I've seen out on the wild. Those ops should be giving me some of their profit.

He does the same shit in woz threads too. I asked the mods for a subforum eject because obviously he can't help himself. No response. So apparently trolling is condoned even though its against the rules by definition?

Yes, Rob...take it from somebody who was ejected from JJP threads for doing exactly the same thing that's pissing you off here. He knows what he's talking about.

You have a lot of Gary's boyfriends on Pinside, and SilverBallz is one of them.

I imagine its hard to moderate fairly and i agree he gets away with pissing on JJP threads everyday.

Maybe there is ulterior motives like he is employed by Stern or hates JJP due to some warped mental thing.

I do wish moderation was better executed.

I don't care for GOT, but I was hoping I would. However, I don't go into those threads all the time and say it over and over again. The one thing I was vocal about was how disappointing the PF art was. Constantly posting you don't like the game - or trying to say that a new game won't be better than an established all time great is rather pointless. That said I personally would rather have a Hobbit than LOTR - but who cares?

Hobbit ,to me, is what Bally/Williams would have evolved into

Shouldn't the plunger be smaller?

Spot on Goronic!

I freaking despise GOT premium. I had it in my collection for 5 days before realizing that I was not going to like that pin. I put it in my Top 5 Least Favorite Pins ever owned list. I have many reasons for feeling this way, yet I think I may have posted about my dislike of that pin on this forum a total of less than 5-6 times.

Some of these people can't help themselves, they just want to keep spewing their dislike for something over and over and over again, thinking that somehow their repeated opinion has more weight the more often that they repeat it. Others have more common courtesy. Hell, Beelzeboob was in on Hobbit, played it and didn't like it so he backed out, but you don't see him constantly coming into these threads to just repeatedly bash the pin.

You can't compare the two so its foolish, I prefer the style of LOTR's but its nothing like the Hobbit, how could it be that on steroids, AC/DC could be called T2 on steroids that I see.

RobT complaining about people endlessly spouting negative opinions is the most hypocritical thing ever.

Bang.

Great point! I think so as well. Stern has had their chances to be like Williams/Bally but just couldn't do it. But, Stern does have some decent games just not good enough for my collection.

I thought you said that you were done replying to me and my posts? F*****g liar.

How ironic of you, of all people, to respond to my post when you are the one most guilty of anyone other than SilverBallz for posting non stop crap in the Hobbit threads. Nobody gives a shit about your tired worn out opinion that you repeat ad nauseam in every single Hobbit thread.

Still upset with me because I corrected you about BSD's geometry *not* being designed with the lightning flippers like you proclaimed it to be? And how stupid you said it would be to use regular flippers on that pin because the geometry wasn't designed for it? Stop pretending to be some type of expert on pinball. Or that you have a reputation that would make anyone give a crap about your opinions.

Um, you guys, the Bally/Williams core is at Stern. Stern these days is basically an extension of the B/W legacy. Lyman, Ritchie, Freres, Gomez, Trudeau, and many other B/W members continued on at Stern.

JJP is as much Stern as it it Bally/Williams.

The industry is incestuous. They all are a giant mash-up of Data East, Sega, Stern, Gottlieb, Bally, Williams, Capcom, and Chicago Coin anyway.

That Rob...he mad. He's right, we do know him. We all know RobT.

Oh look Jar155 trying to give another history lesson in pinball. Is this like the one where you told us that BSD's geometry was designed with the lighting flippers?

Stern's cost cutting and higher margin chasing gives them a Data East feel with a B/W layout. It's weird. JJP definitely chases, and actually surpasses, that B/W quality feel far more aggressively.

Nothing Stern does feels like a Williams/Bally. Nothing!! Sterns game play if totally different. Like i said, Stern has some decent games that are fun to play but, the feel is not the same as Williams/Bally/JJP. Its all good. If you like Stern, that's great. I'm glad they are still making pins but will have to soon up their game. Other companies are coming out with pins and are showing us they they too can make a good pinball in lieu of Stern.

I doubt Stern is worried about other manufactures right now, Heighway and JJP etc. are putting out one game every few years and then taking a year to get them out, I want these companies to be real competition and we all benefit from that but right now think of GB's sales in comparison to TBL, FThrottle and TH not saying there aren't doing well but its still apples and oranges, Stern is king and the quality is there, who cares if its not worthy of being a B/W successor its those comments that cause JJP backlash.