Really? 200% markup? Did you do the math on that?

That means at the current price of WOZ LE or TH LE at $7500, you're estimating a total cost of $2,500 for all parts, labor, and development.

riiight.jpg

You didn't seem to have a problem with TF LE at $6500 or Xmen LE at $6300, meaning you saw the value in those machines at those prices. But in comparison, something like WOZ LE is way overpriced at $7500 for what you get?

Yes, in a perfect world everything would be twice as good and cost half of what it does, but personally I'd rather JJP build TH LE at $8000 with the kind of quality we're seeing in WOZ LE, than build it at $6500 with the kind of quality we see in TF LE.

Sunfox speaks some truth here. I've seen WOZ and new stern pins side by side. It's like comparing a Lexus to Toyota. Both are good vehicles, but the Lexus is a different standard of fit and finish, performance etc...as far as woz performance has yet to be seen, but its coming along.
Is it reasonable for a Toyota to be priced the same as a Lexus?
If so Toyota would be out of business.

I think 6500 for a pinballmachine is out of this world.

If i look at other stuff for that money..... I dont understand it has to be so expensive.

For example, I can buy a jetski instead of a pinball for same amount of cash. I dont know, but a jetski looks way more expensive then a pinballmachine to me. And those dont sell in very big numbers too.

But.... Maybe i am all wrong. Fact is, 5 years ago nib were on about half the price now. And i dont think that 100% raise is fair.

Something is not right here. Where is is all that money going?

I hope someone can explain to me why 9000 euro for an acdc premium is a good price.

In my opninion acdc is maybe the best pin ever made, but why cant it be made for halve that price? I dont understand that.

Cause lets be honoust, what do you get? A wooden/board cabin. Lots of mechanical parts youself can order anywhere, a dmd, backlight, some original toys, some artwork which atm looks and will be cheap and hopefully a good code.

9000 thousands euro..... Really????

The discussion on profit margin is hilarious.....just like <edited>.....

Last time I checked it was the case in the USA you could make a product, charge whatever you want, be subject to competitive forces and demand or lack thereof would dictate whether or not you could stay in business.....

If the price point is too high and he can't sell enough units then he'll be done.....

If someone else can come along and produce the same quality pin at a lower price and still make money then go for it....

I'd like to get a Ferrari...do you think they can lower their prices, I don't want them to make a dime...I just want the Ferrari...

_{Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : Ice second warning no political jabs here on Pinside.}

Well said.

I dont think Captain Neo was disputing the right to capitalism. I think he was knocking it as a business plan as a whole, and expressing his frustrations that pinball WILL go down the shitter if thats the case. And thats just a persons opinion soooo...

I like both Stern and JJP. I do think they are both pushing the price envelope to find the barrier. Thats just good business.
Either they will hit that wall and the market will dictate it or new buyers will push it. May piss a few of us off but thats the market. It will either correct ro be what it is.
Personally I think 6500 is the magic number. Wether it means taking a few key costs out or not.

My brain just exploded. Is that allowed?

My point exactly..I think we are saying the same thing.

Like rare coins or stamps.

Oh wait, you are talking millions then. For a thing you stick in a vault and never take out and play with.

By comparison pinball is a bargain. AND you get to play with it.

LTG : )

I personally will not pay over $6500 for a pin period. If tons of others will then more power to them hope I get a chance to play them at some point. It appears that both Stern and JJP are trying to find out how much they can squeeze out of pinball addicts.

A bit sad to see them going out of my price range of reason but if they can really be successful charging $8K+ for their pins then more power to them I guess. Frustrating for me and likely others that refuse to pay that premium but what can you do other than find cheaper pins out there you love?

Yep. I was collecting stamp. Still got a few good ones. I doubt I would break even if I had to sell them. They are not worth staying in vault, but still... you can't play with them.

Actually no I didn't buy Xmen or TF LE. And I wouldn't at those prices. I got both of them in a trade.

And if Sterns and JJP can make shitloads of money right now, because people throw their money out there without playing the stuff first. That's great. Good for them. How far can they go before a lot of you guys stop and think for a min, how much your spending on a NIB, you've never played only to be disappointed. The blind buyers is the reason they can ask, what they ask. And JJP, asking for money a year and half ahead of time, before his first is done. Jacks up the price another 1500 from the last model, and acts like $500 discount is a gift for getting my money year or years early is a laughable business plan. All it's going to do is piss off your demographic. And around here, it has. There's only a handful of us that can or willing to buy NIB. and seems JJP's business event has pissed off 80% of those around here. That's not looking good for JJP. If he makes it to 3 or 4 games, it will be a miracle.

What if I bought a TV or a Hot Tub for $6K back in 2006 and try to sell it in 2013. You think it would be worth anywhere near what the initial cost was? However I think some people are thinking they may be able to play a pinball machine for a number of years and it will be worth a good bit of it's initial price down the road.

Most of the profits from pinball go to fund covert operations in failed 3rd world countries. Obviously, the US can't be directly involved in these conflicts without pissing off the UN. They needed an elaborate scheme to move the money and the choice was obvious: pinball games.

In the late 90s Gary Stern didn't want to play ball as part of this "pins for arms" arrangement. Williams had also made it clear it wouldn't be involved, so the CIA brought Gary Stern to the Williams factory as they were building Star Wars Episode 1. They made sure he got a good look at Jar Jar Binks, asked him if he was familiar with the character. He said, "Of course, he's that thinly veiled racist Stepin Fetchit from those awful prequels. I can't believe Williams would lower themselves to including that horrible character in the game, except to allow players to purposely kill him or something. Same thing with that brat kid. That kid needs a beating about as bad as the neighbor kid from Small Wonder. Somebody must have a gun to their heads. They've lost their minds."

Shortly after, Williams was shut down...I mean 'closed'. A film crew was hired through several covers to make a movie about this event and that was the story the American public swallowed.

Gary got an ominous phone call in the middle of the night: "Meesa think you work with us now. Meesa wonder you seen Battlefield Earth? It's really great.<click>" The message was clear: get in line or see the last thing your factory ever produces feature something equally ignominious.

that joke took way to long.

YAWN....is the WoZ out yet? Sick of talking about it and JJP, I wanna see it and I wanna play it.

Oh edit from above, I wanna play it with COMPLETE code, finished product, don't care about these half finished coded games, if I wanted that I'd play my X-men.

i've seen it and played it. YAWN. Looks pretty. Bore to play. Kinda like TOM.

For half finished code making it out in the masses every single game. You can thank the preorders for that as well.

The prices are high now, but even though you may not be able to afford NIB, you can get the pins in a few years. Jack will continue to make the machines, so, don't worry, one will be in your price range eventually...

I would think buying a license like Lotr or the Hobbit etc. costs a shit ton of money - ditch the license, bring creativity back and drop the prices a bit problem solved.

How much do you think they paid for the license for MM, funhouse, whirlwind, Junkyard, AFM, Bride of Pinbot, Haunted House, Centaur, fathom, earthshaker, Theatre of Magic etc etc etc.... probably zero = money in your pocket.

I nearly did a Hobbit pre-order but then decided against paying now for a pin out late 2014. If it is really great, will pick it up when done. Unlikely to pre-order anything as would rather wait for finished game and see if I like it. Only exception might be a Pink Floyd pin

About $50 a machine. Cheapest form of advertizing available to coin op. ( Hobbit may be more but not a ton )

LTG : )

The thread is about Hobbit, not WOZ.

Quiet down about Pink Floyd pin. I don't want to see it because I don't want to be tempted to buy into this crazy NIB pricing war that's going on. But since I resisted Hobbit, I probably could resist Floyd. Unless it's main focus was the Gilmore years. Then I'd be sweating it out.

Fall pin from Stern. Pink Floyd focused on the Gilmore years. New system, Big LCD. MSP $10K.

Mwahahahahah.

LTG : )

If its truly only $50 thats really not to bad but multiplied by 10,000 machines still 500k - Still can't deny the fact that some of the best games ever made did not have to rely on a license. Can someone bring back the 80's and 90's... thanks

Im going out to the garage to drag out my dead horse and give him a few wacks

Yea, TAF and TZ were dogs. STTNG, IJ. Just the numbers from TAF alone, out do all the production numbers of all WPC95's combined. I think License is more powerful than unique theme. We may not like it, but it's true.

and you quiet down Lloyd. It won't happen. Lucky for me. Pink Floyd hasn't done shit since 94' and doesn't look like they will again. So chances of Sterns giving a shit to go after that license is slim to none.

It seems the smaller efforts like Spooky Pinball, JPop, Heighway, are doing just that.

The big ones still trying to move them as coin op, need a good license.

You have to realize that everyone here knows what a pinball machine is. But there are areas of the country that haven't had pinball in over a decade and lots of people don't know what it is. So if they see a big translite they recognize, you draw them over to the game and hopefully play it.

And it's selling to ops to. When an op is at the distributor mentions pinball most ops get up and leave. But when Buck Hunter was coming, the distributor when asked what is new he could say Buck Hunter, and slowly get attention going first before lowering the pinball boom.

LTG : )

Since Gary hasn't listened to music since 1994, I think you are in big trouble there Neo.

Will you also be at the PF launch party at Expo this year ?

LTG : )

Oh sorry, I'll edit.

YAWN....is The Hobbit out yet? Sick of talking about it and JJP, I wanna see it and I wanna play it.

Just got the email with the first artwork. Looks great.

239.jpg

Hey look at this.

238.jpg

Ha ha. You beat me by 7 seconds. But at least we uploaded different pics.

Jersey Jack Pinball has released the Hobbit cabinet artwork. Email us at PinballSTAR Amusements if you would like to see it. We are an authorized Jersey Jack Pinball Distributor.

Pricing for the Hobbit is also going up on 2/15 next week from $ 7,500 to $ 8,000 - get your order placed now before then and save yourself $ 500. The Hobbit LE models will sell out. Don't get left out like all of those who are now looking for a WOZLE and can't find one or are paying thousands more than they sold for originally.

We are also taking orders for the WOZ standard model getting ready for those to start shipping to customers hopefully before the end of March ! Stay tuned.

Orders for both WOZ and The Hobbit will go towards the fund PinballSTAR Amusements has set up to purchase a WOZ and donate the game to a Children's Hospital. Get a great game and do something good at the same time !

Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements
[email protected] (Sales AT PinballSTAR DOT com)
570-357-0042
www.PinballSTAR.com

Yeh im not saying the License doesnt help or doesnt work - im just pointing out examples that its not always necessary to rely on... I get it, I get it - just wish it didn't have to be that way.

but times have changed and its true need to grab the attention of the non-pin folks.

Im looking forward to the Jpop stuff could be an eye opener for the bigger guys.

HOBBIT cabinet looks pretty darn good so far

Can he even hear anymore anyway?

Hobbit cabinet looks great. Not $8000 great, but great. Still i'd rather wait and save $8000, and buy them on closeout at $4000 because there are way to many LE's floating around from the saturated pinball market with 10 people making pinball machines.

Just got this advance look at the left side....

trollgood.gif

He can hear your $10K plunking down for Pink Floyd.

LTG : )

In his head he could. But there is only one game i'd plunk down 10k for. And only 2 people know what that game is. No way in hell i'm putting down 10k for any new sterns or JJP title. Unless it came with a permanent Stripper that stays with the machine 24/7 to keep it clean and rub her tits on me while I play.

I like your thinking Neo. Where do I signup for your stripper game.

Looks great so far. I really like the character detail. The other side will have scenes from films 2 and 3.

Of course you could just make that a MOD for any game and sell it at a more reasonable price.

Wait...isn't that what everybodies wife does?......What are titties for if not to wipe down pinball games and keep you occupied/distracted while you play

Well just over 1 year to wait for this game so thats nice.... And dam what a game its going to be!!!!

If nobody bought the games at the higher pricing the manufacturers would have to lower the prices to stay in business. Everyone bitches over the huge jumps in cost yet they still buy them because the manufacturers know they can get the money and this trend will continue until the demand drops.
We used to get the bells and whistles with Stern but now the price of a stripped down Pro is more money than what they used to offer (Spiderman, Batman Dark Knight, LOTR, SPP.......) and now they have been charging an extra 2k on top of an already higher price of the Pro for an LE for the bells and whistles.
Do you really think there has been major quality improvements or is it just inflation to justify such cost increases for a Stern Pinball today? JJP is smart enough to know people are willing to pay more for the quality Stern should be giving and unfortunately we have to pay extra for that too.

What was the cost of a Spider-man NIB back in 2007?

Well that or close.

Choose one.

LTG : )

I think the profit margins have taken quite a jump the last couple years, wouldn't you agree?
What was the cost of a Spider-man NIB back in 2007?