(Topic ID: 320183)

High Speed (Sys 11) won't boot, high voltage too high?

By TimStevens

7 months ago


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Topic Stats

  • 11 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by TimStevens
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#1 7 months ago

Hi there, wrapping up a restoration of a High Speed. As part of that I replaced many of the components listed in the System 11 Bulletproofing guide (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-system-11-bullet-proofing-thread), including all the capacitors on the power supply board using this kit from Yorktown: https://yorktown-parts-equipment.myshopify.com/products/pinball-power-supply-rebuild-repair-capacitor-kit-bally-williams-system-7-11a. However, I did not replace all the resistors and diodes in the high voltage section.

After putting the system together, it posted a few times, then stopped. I bench tested the CPU board with an external power supply and got a 0 on the display. So, I connected it up with a Rottendog power supply board from one of my other tables and it boots and plays beautifully.

So, clearly something's wrong with the power supply board. I followed this testing guide:
https://homepinballrepair.com/troubleshooting-williams-system-11-ss-pinball-machines/

It gives suggested voltages for the low voltage side of things and all mine are within range. However, that guide does not give high voltage ranges. I (carefully) checked mine and the power supply board is putting out 104 volts. Is that within an acceptable range? The Rottendog board shows 100 almost exactly.

Is that the issue? What else should I test? Really appreciate any guidance!

#2 7 months ago

Your post is title that the game won't boot. The game can boot without displays. So which is the symptom: Does the game boot, but the displays don't work, or the game is not booting?

#3 7 months ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Your post is title that the game won't boot. The game can boot without displays. So which is the symptom: Does the game boot, but the displays don't work, or the game is not booting?

The game does not boot, no code on the LED on the board. My understanding is this most often means a voltage out of range, no?

#4 7 months ago
Quoted from TimStevens:

The game does not boot, no code on the LED on the board. My understanding is this most often means a voltage out of range, no?

That would be where to start. From my post in the bulletproofing thread, check these items first. Voltage DC level must be very close, if that is below 4.9VDC at the logic chip supply pins, booting will be questionable. AC ripple should be low, ideally in the millivolts but can often go to 1V or perhaps a little more before it causes a problem. High AC ripple is usually a filter capacitor failing.

*** Williams System 11 Power measurements and test points ***

Logic power
MPU IJ17 Pins 4,5,6 = +5.03 VDC @8.1 mV AC ripple
U26/U27 ROM Pin 1 = +4.91 VDC

#5 7 months ago
Quoted from TimStevens:

However, that guide does not give high voltage ranges. I (carefully) checked mine and the power supply board is putting out 104 volts. Is that within an acceptable range?

Yes, that's fine.

Some like to change the Zeners on this board to lower the voltages to around -90/+90 to save displays. As long as your offsets are close it's ok.

Like the other responders have said, does it boot and it just boots 'blind'? If so concentrate on your HV section - if it needs to be rebuilt, rebuild the entire thing, not piecemeal. Be aware that some of the replacement transistors have different leg pinouts! Double check the guides you're using carefully and match what you have and parts you order to make sure you cross over the legs, if warranted.

#6 7 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Yes, that's fine.
Some like to change the Zeners on this board to lower the voltages to around -90/+90 to save displays. As long as your offsets are close it's ok.
Like the other responders have said, does it boot and it just boots 'blind'? If so concentrate on your HV section - if it needs to be rebuilt, rebuild the entire thing, not piecemeal. Be aware that some of the replacement transistors have different leg pinouts! Double check the guides you're using carefully and match what you have and parts you order to make sure you cross over the legs, if warranted.

I am still trying to determine if this is a boot problem, or a display problem. You are talking about a display problem. The OP is talking about no code on the CPU board status display digit ...this is totally different than the high voltage displays.

The biggest difference? You can play the game without any scoring, but a non booting game won't play at all.

Which is happening here?

#7 7 months ago

Hey all, sorry to be slow responding. I wanted to wait to test it out more before adding more here.

First of all, the table would not boot with the old power supply board. No LEDs at all on the CPU board, no startup tone, nothing -- but the GI lights would come on. With the Rottendog power supply board, it booted and played brilliantly.

Now, after reading your responses I swapped the original power supply board back in for testing, which I recently replaced capacitors as mentioned above, and... it worked. It worked just fine. No problems at all. Weird.

The next day I turned it on and, sure enough, still working fine. Tried it for a few days until yesterday it failed to boot again. And, again, no indicator LEDs at all on the CPU board, but the GI did come on.

Weirdly, as I was looking around in the backbox the GI lights flickered and the game booted! I immediately thought loose connector, but I gave everything a jiggle and nothing. Now again the game is booting up just fine.

I don't even know where to begin troubleshooting now... Again, appreciate any advice.

#8 7 months ago

Resolder the header pins. You won't necessarily feel a cold solder joint by wiggling the connector.

#9 7 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Resolder the header pins. You won't necessarily feel a cold solder joint by wiggling the connector.

Thank you, I'll give this a shot!

#10 7 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Resolder the header pins. You won't necessarily feel a cold solder joint by wiggling the connector.

That and you should also repin the cables.

Read section 2. - especially where it discusses "gas tight seal"
http://www.pinrepair.com/connect/

1 week later
#11 7 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Resolder the header pins. You won't necessarily feel a cold solder joint by wiggling the connector.

Went through and reflowed everything and everything looks to be working perfectly after a week or so. Many thanks slochar!

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