Hi everyone!

Its interesting with this sound beeps and bongs at start-up.

Here are the variations that we have so far:

- Totally quiet (no bong)

- One small "beep" (not really a bong)

- A single beep (but got bong when there were issues (like a switch))

- Nocker clap (and coin door lockout coils engaging)

- My own - Totally quiet but coin door coil(s) engaging.

Dont really know what to make of this.

In the repair guides states that (I post it again):
"When the system 11 games boots, it produces power-on tone(s). Here is the
breakdown of the tone(s):

- No Sound: sound/speech board is not operating, or a failure is affecting the
sound circuitry (broken or disconnected cable, dead amplifier, bad speaker).

- One Tone: sound/speech system OK.

- Two Tones: sound/speech RAM problem.

- Three Tones: U4 problem.

- Four Tones: U19 problem.

- Five Tones: U20 problem (System 11C)."

Its also stated that sometimes five knocks from the knocker can be heard and the reason would probably be a switch issue and the game "calling" for help from the op by giving off five knocks.

Pac-Fan said the board in high speed is a simpler one than sys11 games in general so those guides above might not apply to it...

The manual also says that:
"With the coin door closed, plug the game in, and turn it ON, using the On-Off switch.
In normal operation, the player 1 (SPEEDER 1) score display and the lower two
2-digit displays (Credits and BALL IN PLAY/MATCH) initially show 00. The GAME OVER
indicator blinks. Then, the game goes into the Attract Mode (Playfield and backbox
lamps flashing, sounds being heard, etc.)."

Nothing about any sound bong there.

I guess im over thinking this but I just want everything to work as intended before I start to teardown the game.

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The coil firing on power-on.

Last night I tried to figure out what coil engaged when i powered-on the game. It was hard to catch it since it only happens at random. At first it looked like it was something on the left bottom side of the pf (I had it raised when powering on), then it was the upper left side and could even be the something on the middle right side. I will try again and see if I can find it. Anyway its not one of the flippers and it does sound more like the outhole ball feeder coil or what its called. Not the one that sends the ball to the plunger but the one before it. I repeted the power-on like 15 times before I felt something might brake down from the repeated power-ons. After a while though I could not reproduce the problem but I want to make sure it is really fixed.

I tested all the transistors on the MPU board by putting my DMM to continuity/ohms/buzz, put one end at the ground braid and the other on each of the metal edges of the transistors. If any is shorted it would have produced a buzz but all passed this test. I wonder if any of them has bad solder joints that kinda like are bad when the game is cold and then works normal when its warmed up. By the way the blanking circuit test does still pass (the one from the button on the MPU board where it shows an 8 for like one second and then goes back to a 0).

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The display issue

I swapped the two displays last night and put P1 where P2 was and vice versa. I did not swap the ribbon cables. The result was that the display in the top left position did not work at all and the right one did work, though it shows the same problem as it did when it sat in the first position.

I looked in the various repair guides and found a small test for the UDN-chips on the display board. I turned the game off, unplugged the board, put my DMM in diode mode then put the red lead on the ground braid in the BB and then the black to each of the pins 2-8 of each UDN-chip. A reading of about .5-.7 should be seen according to the guide and it was on all chips. The other side of the chips all showed nothing (Open line) so if this test works and was performed in the right way none of them is shorted... I also checked about 90% of the resistors before I had to go to sleep and they seem to be in range compared to the schematics in the manual.

Im still learning to trouble shoot the displays and how they work, but is it like if a resistor is bad there will be a leak to the corresponding display segment and hence ghosting or what the problem is called? Could be something else of course but am I thinking right there?

Here are some pics (the first one speaks for itself ):

fail.jpg

dispbrd.jpg

Here is a comparision of the "working" display in the different positions. Top = left and bottom = right position.
dispcomp.jpg

Here is a comparision of the two displays, the semi working and the one that is completely dead. In the dead one there are some tiny crystal-like pieces. I dont know if that is a sign of something but maybe?

workingdead.jpg

So, what conclusions can be made from the display swap test?

From what you said pac-fan it looks like the P2 glass is actually broken. Since the P1 works in both positions. P1 has this "ghosting" in both positions and that would mean that the problem originates from the display board (or earlier?) and that the same problem is present on both sections (P1 and P2 displays). If it was only on the P1 section the display wouldve worked completely (no ghost..) in position 2. Am i thinking along the right lines there? Also.. . could it be the glass itself that produce the symptoms or is it like a display is either dead or works and if it semi-works, like in this case, the problem is on the board or further down the line.. im thinking MPU board there...

I am thinking i could borrow a known working display and test with to see if the problem is still there or not. Would that be safe?

Also it struck me, i never measured the 100V from the PSU, could these symptoms come from a low voltage there? In the repair guides it says one can add another pair of resistors (or if it was diodes...) on the PSU to reduce the 100V to about 91V to keep the displays lasting longer, albeit getting slightly dimmer displays.

Sorry for posting so long posts, i was thinking to start a separate thread about the display fix but since weve allready started here it can stay here to make the restoration thread a "from the ground up" restoration

And, Mocean, thanks for liking the thread! I think your HS will benefit from not only my trials but also my errors hehe. Hope you find your replacement displays. I dont know where to find them but somone else might, otherwise do some (more) internet searching. It will often generate some clues.

Pac-Fan, thanks for the BR picture! It helps to see it visually. The thing is to put the fuses at the incoming AC-lines from the trafo to the BRs if I remember right. It whould not matter which AC wire you use. The fuses to use should be 8A 250V slow blow according to guides on the net. It will also help to check the schematics or a data sheet for the particular BR to find out what lugs are the AC ones if the markings are bad.

Many thanks so far!

Last thing lol:

When looking at the picture comparing the working display in the two positions it looks like the "ghosting" (is that what its called?) is not in present in exactly the same segments. I assume, though i dont take it for granted, that this is because the problem source is at different sections of the display board. There is a problem in the P1 section AND in the P2 section that is.

Now, im gonna do some more research.

segments.jpg

I might do the diode test of the UDN chips again since it might be better to put the red lead on the ground on the board and not in the backbox...

Lowrent, why not? simple solutions are often overlooked... worth a try, i need new ones anyway since the old ones are stiff as... scared stiff or something and has turned yellow from bar-wear. I will try and also investigate this issue further.

The cable thing is interesting! I have a known working one from my WPC bride of pinbot laying around i could test with, if i only knew if it is the same internally. They are 26 pin and looks the same but i dont wanna try it just because it looks the same..

I might start a new thread about the problem then, i will include what ive posted here so far.

Pac-Fan, thanks a lot for this last answer, feels like a slow progress that triggers me to really hunt this problem down!

Here is the new display issue thread that i decided to create after all:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/high-speed-sys-11-display-issues

its been linked to this thread to so lets continue the discussion there

Here is an update on my display issue:

It looks like the only problem there was all the time was that the broken display was in the circuit/connected to the display board!

I swapped the displays around and at one point i used only the match display and the P1 display without having the bad one connected. It turned out that both worked!

The P1 display also worked in the P2 position. So, the glass is fine and the display board also seems fine. Now I need to test with some more working displays to see if it really works or if it comes when two displays are plugged into P1 and P2, regardless of both working or not.

I must say I think its a bit sad because I wanted to learn how to trouble shoot the display board with all the segments and stuff.. but lets save that for next project , and still I dont know if its really fine. Time will tell.
Many many thanks to everyone helping so far!

highfactory.jpg

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I also finished the replacement of the GI connector to the PSU today. The yel/wht wires painted and brand new:

yelwht.jpg

Its best to keep things straight and in order when tinkering in the backbox:

marked.jpg

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And the last of todays projects was to install the fuses at the incoming AC from the transformer. At first I was intimidated by this guy:
cap.jpg

The big cap at the bottom of the backbox. But I measured it and it had only 35mV on it when the game was turned off. I also measured it when the game was on and it had about 16V on it then. After that it felt a bit more secure but I still was a bit nervous. As always I unplugged the game from the wall outlet before doing anything

ACfuses.jpg

The game was tested after the surgery and it worked like a charm with the 250V, 8A Slowblow fuses installed!

Good day in the workshop, now I feel like I should give my BOP some care too.

Yeah i think there will be some beers after these two restorations

Tonycip, yeah I wonder too, maybe the display is shorted and hence shorted something else remotely. It might be interesting to examine the display and the cables to see if something is not as it should on the glass circuit board. I wonder if there are any schematics for them, also I will check the cables again but I used the p2 cable when having the p1 display working in position 2. Strange for a newbie like me to tell what's bad.

Yes, it's great but it's only the p1 and the match display that works. Still need an alpha numeric one for p2 and two numeric ones for p3 and 4. I will look in the manual and so to make sure i should really have two numerics, but I think so. After that's sorted out I will have a closer look at the switches, lamps and coils through the tests. I think it might be the kickback that was firing at startup because it's really dodgy and will randomly operate in switch test and also randomly when playing, I mean it works at times but not always even though it should. It does not fire like crazy =)

Then the tear down and cleaning will begin! I think I will start with the cabinet on this game since it's pretty nice and would feel like great progress to have it painted at the same time I paint my bop cab. And, I will try to make my own stencils. The hardest thing will probably be the playfield...

Alright thanks a lot! Then I was remembering correctly =)

Been testing all lamps, coils and switches today. Everything seem to work except for some lamps and flashers. Also some switches are really dirty and does not work though I think it's just the dirt and corrosion and not an electrical fault.

image-347.jpg

This is what it looks like under the apron, I think it's somewhat amazing that the game is working so well with everything looking this bad:
image.jpg

Yes I will replace them and clean the sockets and do another test. Also clean the non working switches and see if it makes any difference. Only need to test the displays then and after that I think I will rip the game apart and make it shiny again =)

Agree! =)

All switches cleaned and working, even the ball roll tilt which was heavily corroded.

And a picture of the difference it makes to just clean the plastics with soap, after flame polishing they should look even better:

image.jpg

Hi there! I don't really know what was wrong more than it was probably located on the faulty display. Either the display itself or the board or both made the circuit go crazy when plugged in. I want to test it with a complete set of working displays to see if it works or the same issue reappears. I tested with swapped cables so at least it was not the cable. I will report back when I know anything more about it!

Time for a question, I am going to replace my burned out flashers under the PF to test if they work before I disassemble the game. So, the manual calls for #63 Flashers but it says Red and some Blue ones. Now I wonder if the lamps are supposed to be colored themselves or if its just the inserts that are colored? I cant see whey it would be mentioned in the manual lamp list if it was only the inserts.

Doing a search at marco's I cant find any colored #63 flashers... but some others are colored and ive seen 906 flashers that are colored. As far from what I can tell the #63 flashers are 7 volts and others, for example the #89 flasher that would fit in the socket are 13 volts... so they would be dimmer than the #63s and probably put the circuit under some more stress. So.. i want the 63's. Still a bulb-noob

Edit: As Jeff_PHX_AZ says below, its clear #63 Flash lamps in sockets under the PF and under the blue "hotdog" inserts. The Flashers called red are in the red dome lights on the sides of the PF. The insert board flashers are located behind the backglass on the uh.. insert board..

flash.jpg

Allright! Thanks a lot for the fast answer =)
In general I think its vice to stay with original specs unless changing is an improvement.

Here is what I did today =)

disp.jpg

If I get my hands on some old but known working plasmas I will try them too just to see if the original display board works together with working displays. But for now I wont bother. It probably will!

The result looks great anyway! However I wonder two things, 1. Why did they ship the stuff with so long ribbon cables? And 2, why doesnt it come with all new cables but only the ones for the credit/match display and player 3 and 4. The cables for the old p1 and p2 displays had to be reused. I guess they are hard/expensive to come by?

Next I tried to clean the insert board a bit, the result shows that a little cleaning takes you a long way and that the game might not be so horribly bad as i first thought. By the way, a friend of mine said the pictures in this thread does not justify the bad shape of the game so I might take some more snaps. Never the less, the insert board is going to get repainted later on.

clean.jpg

A question if someone knows, would it be regarded as an upgrade to change the bare wires on the back of the insert board to some new ones with plastic cover on them? It works as it is but it feels kinda... old school..

wires.jpg

More to come!

Time is all we have isnt it?

I will look into it and might do it, if i strip the board anyway for cleaning up real good it should be pretty straight forward. Still I need to figure out some decent color codes and get some wire, which sometimes cost more than its worth, especially in this case. Ill keep a note and see what Ill do in the end.

Hm... Yeah that's a possibility too with the braid. But I'm leaning to something more like the wpc and newer games. The color code of the wire might be possible to get from the source where it originates.

Hm yeah I noticed about the displays that they were all the same except credit/match. I may try to find some cables for the p1 and 2 also just so I won't be walking around annoyed by the fact that two are nicotine yellow and the rest brand new =) makes life a bit harder but... Same with the Wires on the backbox board. We will see, usually a thing I decide suddenly like 50/50.

I think the game is soon ready for cleaning and teardown, I want to test all lights first though and still waiting for some bulbs.

OT: A well deserved break =):

image-502.jpg

That's nice! I took the picture so I'm behind the camera. Will keep an eye out for the meteors! =) looks like im 7 hours before you so its getting late.

Here is what the cashbox looks like. Not so interesting but it has a sticker on it saying "Lost World". The ink is very faded to say the least. I dont know if this is the original style cash box for HS or if it was just thrown in there. Also dont know if it should have a lid.

cashbox.jpg

And these pictures speak for themselves i guess... ramp cover cleaned and flame polished. It still has some yellow tint to it from either sunshine, cigarette smoke or age or all of them. I dont know but i might make a replica of this piece from some polycarbonate plastic. Til then it will do as it is, the difference is pretty striking.

First picture, the thing is only cleaned with some household cleaner like kitchen stuff. Picture below it, flame polished and it was hard to get a good picture since it was so clear. Only some minor ball marks but nothing you will notice when its in the game.

coverg.jpg

Before and after
rampcover.jpg

Well nowadays you can pay with credit card so no need for the box nah I don't really need it but it's there so it can stay for completeness. It's not like I'm gonna buy a new one. I'll clean it up and that's it. I want the coin mechs to work though since it's part of the game and nostalgia.

Yes the plastic was better than I first thought, I thought it was like hard and fragile but since it's lexan or similar it won't get like that when old.

The new clear ramp is tempting, will see how bad the old one is first. I think I saw a crack on the middle of it and if there is one I will replace it eventually. Not sure I'm gonna spend as much time and effort on this game as bop since it is worth less. On the other hand I know that I'm the kind of guy who like to go all in. Don't wanna do something half assed and feel that it's not complete after all the work.

Here is the latest progress, yay!

plight.jpg

The flashers seem dodgy though. Only the ones on the top of the PF seem to work. The others dont work in solenoid test but when the game is played (at random during the time they should). So my theory is that there is pretty bad contact and i will clean the lamp sockets and do another test. Still a bit worried though since all of them are out, the red and blue under the pf and the red ones on top of the pf under the domes. The backbox insert panel had like 7 lamps out but when i wiggled them a bit they lit up so bad contact there. We will see what happens when everything is cleaned up and all lamps replaced.

Also noted that the stop light also has bad connection and gives off a weak crisp crackling sound i could even see a tiny spark there. The sound stopped when i wiggled the sockets so that will need to be fixed.