(Topic ID: 69131)

High Speed Club ~ Dispatch, this is 504. We have a Club now, over.

By lordloss

7 years ago


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Post #1871 Lane change and EOS positioning. Posted by GRUMPY (4 years ago)

Post #2703 Original flipper wiring photos. Posted by Pin-Pilot (2 years ago)


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#118 7 years ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

Rottendog sells an aftermarket CPU for System 11 games.
Robert

Their's is sys 11A or B not for High Speed because HS , Road Kings and one other games I can't think of, have the sound roms on the MPU and a separate board for back ground sounds. I read other forums where guys tried to modify the 11A to run HS I think, not sure if it ever worked.

4 weeks later
#297 7 years ago
Quoted from CASTHOF:

Made some good progress today, has anyone else made fresh white oak side rails for the game? I'm about to start looking... 1/2"x1-1/8". Other than that, topside was a total breeze. I know I will pay for it on the bottom side.

image.jpg 306 KB

I'm lucky enough to have a wood workers store near by. They will make anything that I bring in from a pinball cab. Right now I'm swapping a CPR flash gordon pf and I changed the side trim to oak in hopes to take the warpage out of the pf. See Flash Gordon post on PS. It did work somewhat.

I will start the HS swap after FG. I have an NOS and a CPR HS. The CPR is a tier 1 but is warped and twisted. Not sure if new side rails would even help. I read up on some plywood warping on google to learn what causes it and how to remedy. Everything leads to humidity and moisture.

#323 7 years ago

I heard that a bike box is good for shipping a populated pf. I know finding one won't be easy. Personally, I would remove the plastics and other fragile parts and wrap in a separate box. Put a thin board over the top side and then wrap with blankets and/or bubble wrap.

#349 7 years ago
Quoted from CASTHOF:

Well now that you mention it.....
1. 25 "staple" light sockets in the game
2. 26 T-nuts all size 6-32
3. I bought 15' of ground wire and will have plenty to spair
4. Coil wrappers from PPS
(3) FL 23/600-30/2600 50V Coil wrapper - original style - WMS# 16-8799-6
Item # PPA-CW-FL-23-600-30-2600-50V
(8) AE-23-800 Coil wrapper - original style - WMS# 16-8943-1
Item # PPA-CW-AE-23-800
(1) AL-23-800 Coil wrapper - original style - WMS# 16-8943-2
Item # PPA-CW-AL-23-800
(3) AE-24-900 Coil wrapper - original style - WMS# 16-8943-4
Item # PPA-CW-AE-24-900
(2) -02 Coil wrapper - original style - WMS# 16-8944-02W
Item # PPA-CW--02W
(8) -03 Coil wrapper - original style - WMS# 16-8944-03W
Item # PPA-CW--03W
(3) -01 Coil wrapper - original style - WMS# 16-8944-01W
Item # PPA-CW--01W

Thanks for putting up the part numbers for the coil wrappers. I didn't even know these were available until seeing the post. I put in my order already. I'm in the middle of a Flash Gordon swap, so I have not had a chance the study the HS pf all that much. It will be my first Wms swap.

For the wire form guides, I know early Ballys are 3/32 in. All of the CPR Bally repros I have had to drill the pilot hole the next size smaller than the wire form size. Some of the wire forms have a pointy nail type shank that helps them bite into the wood and stay in well. The only issue I have had with the wire forms is that if you have to hammer them in hard, they will splinter the under side of the pf. If a wire form seems like it is a little loose, I had some Loctite, just a few drops to help hold.

#362 7 years ago

I think all of his products are licensed. These caps don't appear opaque, more of a solid red to me. I would buy them if I needed them. I bought his Space Shuttle and Firepower caps and I'm pleased with them.

1 week later
#371 7 years ago
Quoted from kporter946286:

Question about outer orbit shots. I am a proud HS owner and never had a problem with this but a friend (whom will remain nameless) refuses to play my game b/c of what he feels is a faulty left orbit shoot. On my machine if you hit the left orbit, it drops the ball into the pops instead of looping the entire way around. He insists that this left orbit shot is supposed to go around and deliver the ball to the 3rd flipper. The right orbit (on my machine at least) does take the ball all the away around.
I have not really played another HS machines at great length and was wondering if the left orbit should be bringing the ball all-the-way around to the 3rd flipper. Or if the left orbit is just supposed to deliver the ball to the pops like mine does?

Mine does both. Weak flipper. Make sure your star roll overs are not slowing the ball in that upper lane, Could also be build up of dirt there too. I still have my original playfield in the game. I'm hoping to do the flipper mod to help with this.

#415 7 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

I can't get my 2 lower flipper coils tight in the bracket, I have squeezed as tight as I can. So my wife without me knowing tells me she fixed it, I said how, she said she put a few drops of super glue in the corners of the coil and coil stop. How do I get this off? I'am sure in time it will break loose on its own, but I'am not liking this one bit. It don't look like a lot and well it is holding tight, but want it done right. Any ideas? What are you douing to keep the coils tight in bracket. I did not have this issue when I rebuilt the flippers 5 years ago. They are the same coils.

Usually spring washers help in this situation. Not sure if HS had them from factory though.

#421 7 years ago

Back ground sounds is a separate board. Check connectors, it's the board above the MPU. Also check the trough switches. If the trip wire are adjusted so that the weight of the ball closes the switches otherwise the game will be confused. There are also micro switches at the hideouts too, check those as well.

#461 7 years ago

I like it! especially the clear because you see more of the "Freeway" and like Paul said, you can add a police car there. I guess with any clear ramp, it will yellow over time? I wonder if these can be flame polished. I also like the idea of eliminating the ramp cover. I would like to buy one or 2 if you make enough. I would also like to see other colors, maybe switch them up once in a while.

#474 7 years ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

I've wanted to make this ramp for myself for a long time, but had decided to wait until I did the actual playfield swap. I knew this would open up some options for other modifications and I guess I'm not alone in that respect. I still need to form the final ramp and then test it in my game. I hope to have one ready to test within a few days...have to cut down some trees today...DOH!. I did not expect so much interest in this, so will now try to come up with something that will work well for those interested. One PM had asked what I would charge for this ramp. First if this stuff was easy, anyone would do it. I've spent the last three weeks, on and off I'll admit, just creating the form for this ramp. I built a vacuum former that is not the garage version hooked up to a vacuum cleaner. I can generate about 4 or 5 times the vacuum of a shop vac. I really did this in conjunction with some things my son was doing with pinball design. All that said I expect I would probably sell these for around the same price you would pay for a replacement ramp... $90. The ramp would have the roll over slots cut as well as the diverter slots and have a ramp entrance flap. Basically the same you would get if you purchased a replacement ramp. You would need to transfer your mounting hardware and roll over mechanism from your existing ramp.

This is great news and a fair price. Thanks for the update.

#485 7 years ago

It's not just the shooter. What about the upper right flipper being able to make it up the ramp? I have not worked on mine yet and the flipper is probably weak but the ball just barely make the ramp shot as it is. I want to do the flipper mod that was mention early on in this thread.

#488 7 years ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

When I got my HS several years ago, it was resetting pretty often. Can't remember my logic at the time, but decided to rebuild my flippers. Turned out the rebuilding of the flippers solved my resetting problem which never reoccurred. But, as far as the ramp shot from the upper right flipper, mine is plenty strong to make it. Actually one of my favorite combination shots it to run the red light and then as the ball comes around and drops to the right upper flipper again, make the getaway. So long as that flipper is in good condition, you should be able to make the shot easily. I do like the fact that the shot is not an easy one, so making it on the fly is very fun for me.

The only thing I can think of that might cause a reset from the flippers would be current draw. Perhaps your flippers had really sticky/dirty plungers and bad coil sleeves to make the mechs very sluggish. Does/did your game have the caps on the EOS switches? Mine doesn't but I have them in the rebuild kits. Anyway I'm glad your game doesn't reset anymore because it sucks when that happens.

My upper flipper seems to mover freely when lifting by hand. Not sure what ails it. I'm going to look into the 50V flipper power supply next.

#508 7 years ago

I hope this goes well for you, I was thinking about that cover, does it have to do with anything as far as the diverter mech goes? I'm hoping the ball doesn't sail when the ball is kicked to the hideouts. Just something to think about.

#523 7 years ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

I've never gotten the feeling that the diverters would send the ball off the ramp simply because the ball's trajectory is pretty much stable by then. I think it is the initial shot that goes astray, so I'm hoping my design will settle the ball down enough. Really want to be able to this without the cover if possible mostly for the visual...Time will tell. Hope to have it installed today to test.

Good, that's what I was hoping.

6 years later
#4238 9 months ago

HS siren hack. I bought a HS about 10 years ago. I noticed a power supply that someone installed to power up the siren. Whoever did this, went to great length to make this work so I left it alone. Since then I bought some new and used siren parts to remove the hack. They cut into the wiring, eliminated the relay and fuse. Luckily I have another HS here that I can refer to. The siren they used was a 12V with a built in lamp.

Is the lamp in the original design part of the lamp matrix? And what is the supply voltage to the beacon motor? Should I toss the 12V siren or is used in other pins?

#4240 9 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

No , it's controlled as a solenoid.

24 volts.

Thanks, I figured it wasn't 12V due to the added power supply. I see the diode on the ceiling of the backbox, that's why I was wondering if the lamp was controlled by it.

#4242 9 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

This diode is to stop emi pulse from the relay coil that turns on the lamp and motor.

gotchya, thanks again.

#4243 9 months ago

Beacon now working with original parts. Luckily the relay is still good and I had the 28V lamps on hand. This game hasn't been turned on in 3 years so it was pleasant to see it boot up but I have some switches not working, one is the lower left hideout micro, hopefully just needs adjustment. Also the flashers upper pf and backglass are out. The backglass flashers show as a single circuit in the manual although I remember a while ago that the 2 left ones worked before, now none. In solenoid test I got one bulb to flash for a second and then nothing. I will need to dig further, perhaps beat sockets and I suspect maybe the resistors are bad.

Cab someone please explain the special solenoid thing please. Which items in the game use them?

#4258 9 months ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

This-this is what a former owner of my game put inside. Kind of embarrassing that I left it in there this long.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Its probably better that he didn't try to solder to the cpu lol

1 week later
#4347 8 months ago

Having some issues with my HS that was in storage for a couple of years. Set up a few weeks ago. Placed new batts in the remote holder. It is not keeping memory and on every power up she goes to "adjust failure".

Next I had about 5 switches not working. As of yesterday about 12 not working and I haven't touched the game in between. I checked the connectors from head to PF and all seem tight. Re-seated 1J8 and 1J10. No change. No stuck switched in test mode

This was pre-existing prior to storage, Some segments out on both alpha numeric displays, although all light in test mode.

Need some help as I'm green to sys11. Most of my games are early SS.

#4349 8 months ago

what are the resistors on the pop switches for?

#4355 8 months ago

I have another HS that I'm working on and discovered that someone took the actuator and metal plate from the left upper hideout micro switch. The micro is still wired and works. Are they left and right specific? Can I buy just those pieces and/or the entire switch. Can someone provide a part number? I just searched epay for a WMS parts cat. but no luck.

#4358 8 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

No, not side specific. IIRC that part is discontinued but there's a suitable replacement. I broke one arm and had to replace it...lemme see if I can pull which part I ordered from history (although if yours works, doesn't sound like you need one?)
//edit
This guy: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5647-12693-20

Thanks. It works if you press the little button but the arm and mounting screws
are mia.

Quoted from PinballAir:

Planetary pinball has parts manuals online

I found that but the pages are black and illegible once opened. Tried both from.IPDB and planetary w same results.

#4359 8 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

No, not side specific. IIRC that part is discontinued but there's a suitable replacement. I broke one arm and had to replace it...lemme see if I can pull which part I ordered from history (although if yours works, doesn't sound like you need one?)
//edit
This guy: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5647-12693-20

It works when pressing the little button but the arm and screws are mia. Got a buddy in FL that's parting an HS and he has one for me. Not free but cheaper than the one on epay

#4385 8 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Having some issues with my HS that was in storage for a couple of years. Set up a few weeks ago. Placed new batts in the remote holder. It is not keeping memory and on every power up she goes to "adjust failure".
Next I had about 5 switches not working. As of yesterday about 12 not working and I haven't touched the game in between. I checked the connectors from head to PF and all seem tight. Re-seated 1J8 and 1J10. No change. No stuck switched in test mode
This was pre-existing prior to storage, Some segments out on both alpha numeric displays, although all light in test mode.
Need some help as I'm green to sys11. Most of my games are early SS.

anyone?

#4389 8 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

You sure the solder joints for the remote battery are good? Try redoing them to make sure there's no issue there? There's no reason it shouldn't hold memory of the pavk is good and the solder joints are good. If those both check out but it still won't hold, I'd imagine there's other damage to the board. Me being simple as I am, that's where I'd be shipping them off to my board guy. Lol
What are your results in edge test for the switches that are acting up?

Thanks I was suspecting the same about the batt holder leads. The wire is running behind the CPU and the two wires are braided together so pulling on them doesn't show any loose connection. I have 11 switches out, no stuck switches

#4390 8 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Most likely the battery holder is bad, or D-2 is open.

Which switches? Most likely a broken wire.

How about a pic.

I will try to take a vid of the displays. Segment M is out and R is doing weird things. flickering and lighting when it shouldn't and not when it should but all work in self test.

11 switches out, all 3 upper and middle traffic light stand up targets, green lower stand up, kick back lane, both flipper return lanes and the lower left hideout micro.

I will look for D2 and check it.

Upper PF flasher and backbox flasher don't work.

#4391 8 months ago

Made a little progress w the switches. While testing each switch I pushed on connector 1J8 and some started working again, still not working are in row 7, which are lower L stop target green #15, R stoplight bank yel # 23, L outlane #31 and upper L hideout #39. The other 2 switches in that row are working so I need to find the common denominator. It's weird that the switch before those 4 and the switch after on the matrix table are working. I'm thinking maybe a break in continuity between 39 and 47 is possible since the first switch in the row is on the coin door.

I also want to add that the alpha numeric displays only work fully when it's testing only one digit at a time, when doing all at once, the segments are missing as they are in game play.

#4393 8 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

You need to post a pic of the CPU board.

Will do. Any specific area you want to see? I found the break in the switches. Will post a pic of that as well. Also found broken diode lead on left eos switch engine reving feature.

#4396 8 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Here was the bad switches. Then you pushed on J-8 and some started working. Mark which ones that are still not working. Do you think J-8 connector is bad or that there is a cracked solder joint on the header pin.
[quoted image]

Thanks for taking the time to highlight the chart and post it. Actually sw 39 was out, not 40. I got mixed up with upper and lower. I was thinking vertical, not top to bottom of PF. But like I said in post #4393, I found the broken wire. it goes on a solder lug below the PF by the micro switch, of course it's in a tight spot. I did replace the broken diode on the left EOS.

Also as you mentioned, the battery holder is wonky. I fiddled w the batteries until I read 4.8V on the connector. So need/should replace.

The CPU has been worked on as you can see. Serial number doesn't match so probably not original, but this is how I got the game several years ago.

P2140160 (resized).JPGP2140161 (resized).JPGP2140162 (resized).JPGP2140163 (resized).JPG
#4398 8 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

This cpu has had some serious alkaline damage in the past. I have seen this type of damage run down the board to J-8. To which the connector and the header pins need to be replaced to insure good connections in the future.
With the much alkaline above the battery holder I'm surprised that the displays work at all.

Yes this CPU has had serious trouble in the past. But it's been very reliable, minus the display issues, since I bought the game probably 10 years ago. I did buy a clean CPU years ago but never needed to install it. But it might be time now. I will pull the original and take a look at the lower header pins.

Thanks for your guidance!

#4400 8 months ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

Installed new capacitors on my pop bumpers. Was having am issue with the right bumper which seems to be fixed now. Took almost an hour to get all the switches working properly afterwards. Now the top bumper is acting quirky. A couple of times the metal ring dropped and stayed down, and while down the ball seemed to be magnetized to it. The ball was swinging around it until I turned the game off. While looking under the playfield I can see that the coil wires have been re-soldered but not sure why they were removed/replaced. The coil pistons seem to have a fair amount of slop in them and I don't know what is considered normal. Am I looking at more switch adjustment to fix this issue or could the piston be binding in the sleeve?

Change the balls. Also replace sleeves and return springs which may be worn out. The stronger the spring the snappier the pops will be. I would also inspect the other parts like the yoke and back plate and plunger and the entire bracket. Also make sure bracket is tight to the pf. Lock nuts can work loose.

#4410 8 months ago

My HS was working last weekend and my daughter has been playing the heck out of it all week. It developed an issue when it gets to the "get away" phase for multi-ball. First I should mention that the ball doesn't always make the ramp from the plunger pull, sometimes misses all together and other times just too weak. When the first ball goes up the ramp and ends up in the left hideout, all is good when second ball end up in the right hideout. But if both balls end up in the left hideout, nothing happens, the game go silent and I have to turn it off.

But if the first ball up the ramp ends up in the right hideout, the left hideout kicker activates until the 2nd ball reaches it. And then sometimes the ball will straight through to the upper flipper. When this happens, no 3rd ball is ejected to the shooter lane.

Is this a timing issue, or something else? I checked all switches and they seem to be working ok.

#4413 8 months ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

Did you rebuild the shooter rod assembly?
The ball should be able to easily go all the way around ramp. Do you have the correct spring?
Is your machine pitched more than 6.5 degrees off level?
Is the clear shield on the ramp being pushed down by the traffic light hardware? On my machine i found this was an issue. The clear plastic was too low and slowed the ball down. I melted it and lifted it a bit. The ball rockets around now, to the point of it being a timing issue now. But it easily makes it around either by pulling pin or with flipper.

Thanks I will check all of these things. I haven't rebuilt or did anything to the shooter rod. The spring seems strong enough so maybe the rod and bushing just need a cleaning. What is the correct spring? Do they go by color for the strength of the spring?

#4415 8 months ago

I made a little progress. I took the shooter rod out, cleaned it and the sleeve since I don't have a new one on hand. Put in a red spring, replaced the front 3/4 spring. Then hit the rod with a dab of white litho grease. Works like charm now. I also adjusted the pitch to 6 degrees. I first set the gauge on the side rail and it was reading 9 degrees, later realized the cab and pf are pitched differently. So I went with the PF reading.

I'm not out of the woods yet. I forced the game into multi-ball and shot the get away ball by the shooter rod and it jumped to the right hideout, When this happened, the left kicker activated a couple of times until I shot the second ball up and it went into the left hideout. By the time the 3rd ball ejected, and I shot it up, the right kicker released, followed by the left which I think is correct. I believe my issue is with the diverter. Is it true that the first get away ball should always go the left hideout first? I also noticed a repair has been done on the diverter under the PF, some kind of glue or epoxy on one of the arms connected to one of the shafts. I will investigate that next.

#4418 8 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

You shouldn't use grease on the shaft, all you need to do is wax the shaft.

The left ramp switch isn't working. This is why the ball is passing the left hideout. Check the diode first, if good then check the switch adjustment.

If indeed the left divertor arm is not moving in unison with the right divertor the game will not know where the ball is causing a ball search on the left hideout coil.

Yeah I know, grease is forbidden in most pin applications but I'm only using it until I can get new sleeves. Both ramp switches were working in self test as of last night. So may be it does need adjusting. Also a little while ago I noticed the ramp has some slop. Back I go...

#4420 8 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

My FP40 ramp wasn't installed right and it was causing the ball to hop. It's better now, but without the cover I think it's still doing it on occasion. Dammit I can't wait until that old girl is home again!

I'm still at it with this ramp and diverter thing. I noticed that the left diverter arm was set back a little. The reason being that the upper screws that hold the ramp down were loose. Thing explains why the diverter was working and then not. I guess the extra play time contributed to the looseness. Not only that, some shoddy repair work has been done prior. The right diverter is missing the bushing under the plastic arm. This is the side where the bottom arm that attaches to the shaft has been spot welded, I originally thought it was epoxy, but no this guy got the welder out LOL. So this piece will never come off if it needs to. Are the upper black plastic arms removable? I don't want to force and end up breaking them.

I contacted Freeplay40 and ordering the red ramp. So of course I need to remove the switch assy and brackets. Trying to get the ramp out is more involved than I thought. Aaaaannnnnd to make it more of a pain, somebody at WMS wasn't using their head when they wired the switch harness because the female side of the Molex connector can't squeeze through the slot on the PF, if they were reversed, it would have been a snap. It's nice that they put a connector there but still! A previous tech must have removed and/or replaced the ramp since the switch wires were cut and spliced. I decide to extract the pins and pull it through but my .062 extractor is jammed. I don't recommend the Waldom pin extractor since this is the second one I bought and they don't do such a great job. I found the Philmore on epay and looks promising with good reviews and at a decent price.

ebay.com link: 062 CRIMP TERMINAL PIN MOLEX EXTRACTION TOOL Philmore 61 392 NEW

They also make one for the .093 as well so I got both.

#4421 8 months ago

So I have two options, either pull pf out of cab to remove the black board or wait for the new extractor.

#4424 8 months ago
Quoted from jeffr:

I have an intermittent problem with the left hideout firing a what seems to be random times during a game. It always works when a ball is in there, but it also seems to go at other times and I can't find any correlation to activity elsewhere. I've replaced the switch, but that didn't help.
Any ideas?

Flaky diode?

#4425 8 months ago
Quoted from jeffr:

I have an intermittent problem with the left hideout firing a what seems to be random times during a game. It always works when a ball is in there, but it also seems to go at other times and I can't find any correlation to activity elsewhere. I've replaced the switch, but that didn't help.
Any ideas?

Also check switch gap on left ramp switch. Mine was doing similar left hideout kicks when the ball got passed the left chute due to ramp and diverter needing adjustment. If the gap is too close it's possible that pf vibration can make the left hideout kicker activate?

#4429 8 months ago
Quoted from killborn:

I would also check the gap on the 2 switches in the left hideout itself. And just to be sure vibration isn't the issue, while in switch test you can hit the playfield with your fist and see if anything registers.

Those are micro switches

#4438 8 months ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Joined the club last weekend. Spent this past week cleaning, polishing and adjusting, now it's playing like it's supposed to. Odd factory mistake from Williams on my cabinet, they stenciled the colors in the wrong order, first white then red and gold, so the white is overprinted on both sides. Looks like they fixed the HIGH SPEED text, can't have people not be able to read what machine they're playing, but the red in the car and the red and gold stripes overprint the white. My serial # is 54180259, I'd be interested see if other owners around the same number had their cabinets stenciled wrong. A shame, as otherwise the cab is in great shape.
Anybody have a spare green standup target face? One of mine was replaced with a red one and I need to rivet a correct green one in. I don't see them for sale anywhere.
[quoted image]

Holy shit what are the odds, I have 80258 here and no mistakes on the stencil order, although the cab has wicked planking.

#4439 8 months ago

I'm sorry if this has been covered before but can somebody explain any differences between rev. 2 and rev 4 of the the U26 and 27 ROMS?

#4442 8 months ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Yes/no.
The capacitor resistor network makes the pulse signal to the gate circuitry sustain a logic state for a period of time.
With out the capacitor resistor network, the switch pulse signal would be "clipped" and an insufficient
pulse would be applied to the transistor circuitry causing an insufficient pulse to drive the coil.

So I should get rev 4 in place of the rev 2? Or was there another revision?

#4455 7 months ago

Got a new red Freeplay40 ramp on the way for my NOS PF, it's gonna look sexy!

#4456 7 months ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

Replaced blown fuse. Everything was working in test mode. Kickback would pop out but not immediately go back in. Seemed like left kicker or something else firing would make it go back. Didn't get any further with it yet. During game play right hideout fires, but does not have the power to shoot the ball out. Did not change diode on relay yet. Not sure if that will help it or not.
Coil was loose in bracket the other day so I tightened it up but it moves freely.

Check the coil resistance, mine are reading 5.3 ohms

#4476 7 months ago

Could someone tell me the resistor value for the resistors on the PF switches, pop bumpers etc?

#4489 7 months ago

I got my red ramp last week. Very pleased with how it looks.

1 week later
#4505 7 months ago

Does anyone know the part number for the shooter rod housing sleeve? Don't see it in manual or parts cat.

#4512 7 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

RAMP/DIVERTER QUESTION: I have owned my HS for a year and it works pretty good. The one issue I have from time to time is with the ramp/diverter switches. They usually work ok and the first ramp ball goes down the right hideout and the 2nd ramp ball goes down the left hideout and there is a rotation after that. But sometimes the ball will go up the ramp fast and the Ramp Gate/Diverter will not activate at all and the ball will just come out by the upper flipper. I assume this is because the switches under the ramp are not adjusted properly. (Someone please tell me if my assumption is wrong).
I know - I think - that there are 2 switches under the ramp (42 and 43) and these activate the ramp gate solenoid (13). I do not understand how these 2 switches are connected. I assume switch 42 does not work on the first ramp shot and 43 activates the gate. Then on the next ramp ball, switch 42 activates the gate. Can someone please tell me how these switches are connected so they know how to work together?
Also if my ball goes up the ramp and does not activate the gate assembly - I assume one of my switches needs to be adjusted a little closer....Is that correct?
I know there has been a lot written and discussed on this issue and I have spent plenty of time reading it all but I still have questions.

This is a good one for GRUMPY . I always start with the easiest things first, although getting to the ramp switches isn't that easy on HS. Switch adjustment and/or cleaning never hurts and doesn't cost anything. I recently removed a ramp on a HS that I have had for years now. The switch blades were all jacked up. I was amazed it worked at all but my game will do the same as yours, just blast through the ramp to the upper left flipper.

Have you performed the switch test in self diagnostics? Confirm that there are no stuck switches. Remove all balls prior so that the trough switches are open. Maybe the game is not able to keep track of the balls and is confused.

It's also common on solid state games that have these types of switches to be missed by the CPU when hit very fast. Capacitors were added to help with this issue and the ramp switches do not have them.

Finally, make sure the diverter is working and is adjusted properly. Try rolling the ball up there slowly and see if the ball ends up in the right hideout first consistently.

#4520 7 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

How do I get the contacts off the original leafs? Do I just heat them like I was desoldering?

I use the .08 blades from PBR but they were out of stock a couple of weeks ago.

The switch contact is like a rivet. Just grind the back side off and it should practically fall out. The new contacts can be peened over on the back side but soldering will make the best connection.

Quoted from The_Great_Man:

Just did some practice on an old leaf switch I had. I used my side-cutters to cut off the old contact and it seemed to work. Is this the best way to do it?

Any way that you can remove them w/o damaging the blade is fine. I like the .008 blades from PBR but they are out of stock, only have medium and heavy right now. The new contacts have a flared piece that gets peened over to install them. Make sure you have the blades oriented correctly so that the solder lugs on the bottom are separate from each other, made that mistake before. You'll never get the new contact as tight as the factory so as Grumpy said, solder them.

#4525 7 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

I have some of the medium thickness blades - .012 - from PBR but I would like to try to use the existing blades. Do you press the contacts after you fit them through the leaf hole with pliers or something else or do you just push them through and solder them? I like the microswitch idea but that might be overkill.

The .012 may be too stiff for this application. A thinner blade will react faster and still have enough tension to spring back. You cannot use pliers to set the contacts, it will damage them. They are very soft and hollow. I place the contacts face down on some felt material that I bought from a craft store. Then place blade over the contact and use a tiny ball peen hammer to flatten the back sides. You can also use some painter's tape to hold the contacts in the blades since they are so tiny and get lost easily.

The WMS part # for this switch is SW-1A-124. PBL doesn't have it but the SW-1A-120 they do have, which I believe is the same, just doesn't have the insulator (fish paper) above the long leaf. But you can add those easily, reuse from old switches or by new.

#4561 6 months ago
Quoted from KnockerPTSD:

Also is the translucent red ramp still a thing? In for a penny....

Freeplay40 still has red ramps. I got one a month ago.

To remove jet bumper assy you need to unsolder the lamp sockets from the under side of pf. Snip with dikes if replacing them to make it quicker. There are 2 screws in the bumper body that need to be removed. Lift body off with the skirt and small spring underneath the skirt.

If you are leaving the coils soldered to the pc harness, remove the screws for the coil bracket to remove coil and return spring. Then you just have the 3 lock nuts to remove entire assy. You will have the 3 screws left in pf. If not removing them place the lock nuts back on enough to cover the pointy end to prevent stabbing yourself of damaging something when moving pf. These screws are known as fin screws. To remove from pf just tap them down while the lock nuts are on them so not to damage the threads.

Upon reassembly do not over tighten the lock nuts or the fin screws may snap or break. It has happened to me on my first swap.

3 weeks later
#4570 6 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Yup! Man I can't wait to slap those on.

I'm gonna copy off of you LOL.

#4574 6 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Cheater!
Jet black all around is the 'safe' play. It seems to look great on just about everything.
I'd love to go crazy with it but I'm just too damn cheap!

Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Cheater!
Jet black all around is the 'safe' play. It seems to look great on just about everything.
I'd love to go crazy with it but I'm just too damn cheap!

Well at least copy you on the habit trails candy apple. I have a new lock down bar from PBL and will coin door original black.

#4576 6 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I'm half tempted to have him try candy red on the rails, lock bar, and legs.. Now that I realize I actually need to still coat another set of legs (the ones on taxi currently) since all my spares and what are currently on high speed are all WPC legs (4 sets, wtf). Not that it's a high crime to put WPC legs on a sys11 (full rib vs half rib, most wouldn't ever notice), but I might as well do it right if I'm gonna do it...
How hard is it to strip coin doors down so I can send those off for textured splatter black? I have several I want to do but I'm afraid it'll be a PITA.. Tell me I'm wrong!

You need to sandblast most likely. I used to have a blast cabinet for doing just that. However does your powder coat may be able to blast it for you.

I got rid of the cabinet due to moving. It was bulky, messy and needed like 11 CFM of air to maintain good blasting pressure and I didn't have a large enough compressor.

#4577 6 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

You need to sandblast most likely. I used to have a blast cabinet for doing just that. However does your powder coat may be able to blast it for you.
I got rid of the cabinet due to moving. It was bulky, messy and needed like 11 CFM of air to maintain good blasting pressure and I didn't have a large enough compressor.

However=whoever

1 week later
#4592 5 months ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

Lights in back box appear to be wired in 2 circuits. This just happened, was not inside doing anything. See nothing obvious wrong. Anyone have an idea where to start?
[quoted image]

Connector, break in trace wire or blown fuse?

#4611 5 months ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

Just gets more awesome. Was playing tonight and thought I heard an odd noise but wasn't sure. Next thing, I notice the magic smoke coming up around the right pop bomber. Turn game off and lift playfield, smell the burn. Can't see anything out of the ordinary but damn near burnt myself when I touched the coil for that pop bumper. Need to let it cool before I can do anything else but it seems like that bumper mechanism isn't springing up and down like the others. Not sure if the sleeve heated up and deformed or if the mechanism caused the issue. Game seemed to be playing normally, didn't notice an issue with the bumper. I did notice that the lower bumper has a different coil than the other two. Is that normal? I would think they would all 3 be the same.
Anyone know if rebuilding the bumpers would do the trick or should I be looking for a different cause? Will try and get a better look tomorrow when it all cools down.
Have 2 machines down now. Anyone an expert on a Laser Ball with flippers that stopped working?

If the coil got too hot it will swell and cause the plunger to not move freely which is why it appears to be stuck.

Are the coils different by mfr or numbers?

#4631 5 months ago
Quoted from MrExtrm:

Does anyone know the value of this red resister (I think it’s a resister???)... Ride hideout coil not firing, and I found the broken leg on this guy..
[quoted image]

That resistor is fried, I would replace that diode with it. The colors are orange, green, brown and gold. From what I found online, I'm thinking this is a 350 ohm resistor +/- 5%. I'm guess at least a 3 watt heat rating? Can someone concur?

2 weeks later
#4649 5 months ago

No turning back now! This is my 10th PF swap. All others have been early Bally and Stern. What's nice about HS is that all the switched lamps are wired directly and no trace wire is needed. I have another HS here to reference but I still labeled as much as I needed to. One thing compared to earlier swaps is that HS has numerous through hole wiring for the hideouts and such, so many of those have to be de-soldered. It took about 3 long nights to get this far.

P5280079 (resized).JPGP5280080 (resized).JPGP5280081 (resized).JPG
#4650 5 months ago

Also found out why the upper flashers never worked, warming resistor missing.

#4652 5 months ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I just completed a HS PF swap. By far the longest one I have done. Later System 11s seem to have far less wiring.

I'm sure this will take a while. The nice thing is that I have a NOS PF and the dimpling looks to be spot on. I have been thinking of getting an ultra sonic cleaner and dunking the harness in for a bath. My worry is that the high frequency of the vibrations may do damage to the diodes. I am planning to change the switch diodes but not all of those diodes on the lamps.

#4654 5 months ago
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

Put it through a cycle in your dish washer. Works Great!

I tried that years back with EBD but the switches turned black. Not sure why, maybe the detergent? Should I not use detergent this time?

#4655 5 months ago

My NOS PF doesn't have the rubber sizes stamped on it. I find this odd. Also it is date stamped Aug 1991. Anyone else notice if they have the rubber size stamped?

Also, I have another HS game that has black relays for the hideout circuit, the one I'm swapping now has blue relays that look very different. Can anyone explain?

#4658 4 months ago

What is the big 30,000 uF cap in the bottom of the back box for? Has anyone replaced it and did it make any difference?

#4660 4 months ago
Quoted from Bellagio:

My understanding is that it’s in the controlled lamps circuit to smooth out the lighting. I’ve also read that they essentially never fail.
Inkochnito’s bridge board that I highly recommend eliminates it anyway.
http://home.kpn.nl/p.koch3/bridge_board.htm

Nice, I read about the fires these games have caused and was also wondering about the fix. It looks like this board will fix both at once. And I almost spent 40 bucks for a new cap! What is his home page where I can see prices?

Also what's with the WMS parts manual for Sys11 games, no part numbers or diagram for the sling shots, nor in the HS manual. Can someone please post the part numbers for the slings?

#4662 4 months ago
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

Here is a link to the board:
http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/BridgeBoard.html
what part of the Sling shot are you looking for? Coil, Arm, Switches, Rubber?

Thanks. All parts I guess. Mainly arm or arm and link assembly. Z bracket.

1 week later
#4663 4 months ago

I guess the only way to disassemble the ball diverter is to remove the roll pins at the cranks at the bottom? I have been in the hobby for 13 years and never bought a roll pin removal/insertion tool. I guess it's time!

2 weeks later
#4671 3 months ago

Does anybody sell new red flasher lens covers?

2 weeks later
#4690 3 months ago
Quoted from STLOkie:

Ugh. Why would someone do this?! My recent purchase had painted (textured!) on the top sides and front. Sanded it down and the original art still looked good! We’ll get her looking good again.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
[quoted image]

That is nuts. I would have stripped all the parts from the cab before doing this though.

#4693 3 months ago
Quoted from STLOkie:

I’m not paining yet. Just was sanding a bit. Going to strip next.

I see.

#4694 3 months ago

I'm working on 2 HS at the moment. CPR did the plastics years back and I bought a set then. I just noticed the green for the trees is very light compared to originals. Have they corrected this later on? Also does anyone know the rivet size for the flasher lenses? I see they added a back up washer.

#4696 3 months ago
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

I also bought plastics from CPR around Nov 2019. The CPR plastics I got were brighter and greener (less faded).
I am not sure of the rivet size. I believe I used 1/8 X 1/4
I would highly recommend this upgrade to the rear flashers:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/high-speed-restoration-in-low-speed-jan-2020/page/3#post-5765251

Your game is frigin sweet. I need that tool, please tell me where to get it. I have benchtop wire bending tools but not this. It's funny though, tonight I thought of doing the same exact thing with the upper left plastic and flasher setup. Did you leave the right upper flasher uncovered with standard lamp?

For the ball gate on the lower right where ball exits the shooter lane, I had to remove mine in order to put it in the tumbler and re-grain the ball guides. I went by the chart on Hanson's page to figure the length of the rivet. So length= work piece thickness + clinch allowance. Came out to .187 which is exactly 3/16 inch. So I used that size which was 1/8 diameter, 7/32 head dia. and 3/16 length. I went with a stainless rivet and used a hand squeezer but the rivets are only snug and the gate can to moved with a little force. I'm not worried about it, I think it will hold up. I also turned the rivets around so that the heads face player. I have no clue why they reversed them, it looked stupid to me. Final touch was to polish the rivets with the dremel wheel.

Temporarily mounted the candy red powder coat rails to see what it looks like. Added Pin Chroma 8/32 locknuts in red to match. I'm digging the red silicone post sleeves too.

P7180096 (resized).JPGP7180097 (resized).JPGP7180098 (resized).JPGP7180099 (resized).JPGP7180100 (resized).JPGP7180101 (resized).JPGP7180102 (resized).JPG
#4697 3 months ago

Shoot now with the pics I can see that I need to clean the clear coat from the opening in the PF, Ugh, more work.

#4701 3 months ago
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

Thanks, I am very pleases with how my #HS turned out.
I think you are talking about the wire bending tool. I believe I got it on amazon.
I did not put a cover on the top right flasher. Just a little too tight of a space. You cannot see it anyways.
Love the red nuts and the wire look great!!!

Thanks, I thought it was nice touch. I also got the 6-32 in green for the plastics, do away with the white caps. I found that tool. It's actually for making jewelry which in out case the pins are the jewels

What did you use to cut the flasher lens hole in the plastic? I may just practice on the old one first.

#4702 3 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Thanks, I thought it was nice touch. I also got the 6-32 in green for the plastics, do away with the white caps. I found that tool. It's actually for making jewelry which in out case the pins are the jewels
What did you use to cut the flasher lens hole in the plastic? I may just practice on the old one first.

sorry for typo, our case

#4707 3 months ago
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

I thought I had pics to document how larger holes are made in plastics for the domes.
You take the plastic and screw it down onto a piece of wood using the existing holes.
use a forstner bit to drill the larger hole in the plastic. The forstner bid has a center drill tip to line up the drill bit.
Start a center hole with the forstner bit and drill slowly through the plastic.
If I find the pics I took I will post them but I have not been able to locate them. Somewhere on HEP I have seen he documented how it is done.
It is not difficult just takes time, go slow and be sure you are centered when drilling the plastic.
Definitely practice on your old plastic first to get the feel. That is what I did.
EDIT:
Took a little searching but found a post where HEP did this. It is on a The Addams Family but you will get the idea.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18/page/142#post-5687590

Ok, great! I have forsner bits, I can't believe I didn't think of that, doh!

#4709 3 months ago
Quoted from Tsunami:

Added some photos of these switched but I think they look good? Any help or suggestions? Better photos or just sell it as is!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

On the first photo it looks to like somebody used high current contacts to rebuild the switch, or EOS switches? I guess this will work for a while in a 5 volt situation. Although the blades may be too stiff for a pop bumper skirt to activate it. If it were my game I would replace them all with new one from Pinball Life, part# SW-11A-35. $10.95 each or $15.95 each with resistor, cap and diode pre-installed.

#4713 3 months ago
Quoted from Tsunami:

[quoted image][quoted image]

What does the red add on board do for the special solenoids?

#4715 3 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Adds and individual fuse for each special solenoid coil.
Was this board made by DumbAss ?

Now I know why they call you Grumpy lol. Kidding aside, I'm still learning WMS games. I thought this would be helpful to narrow down a bad coil if they have individual fuses? No? I was thinking of getting it from Weebly.

1 week later
#4728 3 months ago

I have 2 HS here and this plastic on both games is just laying on the ball rail behind the upper flipper. I'm guess all are like this? It just doesn't seem correct.

Quoted from vec-tor:

Some High Speeds have had the brights circuitry modified to take the revised #89 lamps.
#63 O.E.M. circuitry is a series layout.
#89 circuitry is a parallel layout.

Is there an easy way to tell the difference?

#4731 3 months ago

Can anyone tell one me about the post to the left of the center spinner? I have 2 games here, one early and one later serial number wise. The earlier one has a mini post at the left spinner, the later one has a post with a sleeve. Looking at pics online I saw the sleeve post version. But the manual calls for 3 7/16 rubbers for mini posts. Post sleeve game would only need 2.

I also found a discrepancy in the WMS blue parts book calling for 2 of the 1 inch and 3 of the 1.25 but it should be one of the 1 inch and 4 of the 1.25.

#4733 3 months ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

If you are texting about the center spinner to the eject hole...
1) Early version of the game has bosh relays and a mini post.
2) Second generation has post and sleeve and new relay and resistor matrix.
Plastic set has heavy aluminum spacers...
3) Final version has post and sleeve,snubber relays style design...
Note: I don't remember if the kickback remained on a Bosh relay style up through to the end of the production.

Thanks for providing this great info! Yes that's the mini post I was referring to. I did notice the difference on the hideout relays. Both games have the Bosch on the kickback.

My plan was to swap pf's between games. I'm doing NOS pf swap and was going in the earlier cabinet, is this possible plug and play?

The PF in the early game is getting a HT. Reason for swapping is that the later game has an above average cab and I want to sell that game with the HT PF.

The early game has a crappy cab that I want to restore and use the NOS PF in so I have a completely restored HS for my collection.

#4739 87 days ago

It's a beautiful thing when you fix a machine yourself!

1 week later
#4747 80 days ago

Can anyone explain why the GI sockets by the sling shots are different on each side? Right side has staple down sockets and the left has a bracket type with a half inch offset. Obviously the bracket socket will make the lamp sit lower. It looks like there is space for the staple down socket, has anybody used them on the left side when doing a swap?

#4750 79 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Williams always did that to the kickers... One side was to clear the switch solder tab.

So the staple down socket used to clear solder tabs? Why not us staple down on both sides?

I added a GI to the star roll over with a lay down socket and a red flex LED. Should look nice.

#4752 79 days ago
Quoted from STLOkie:

Ok I spent an hour or so working these up. Will pop them on the machine later. I can send you my file if you want edit the highways yourself or I could mock up some for you if you give me a few points of interest/highways you would like to highlight. I’m out of sticker paper but I could print and mail to you later if you don’t have a printer.
I was going to use the “exit only” sign as my hide out spinner.
[quoted image]

Those are just too freaking cool. Nice job.

#4756 79 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

The down side is that the #44/#47 lamps, do to heat, would burn the rubber rings and
cause premature deterioration. AKA service calls.
One must remember some slingshot kickers are very small and space is very tight.
If you look at game designs back in the day, you would find extra post & pins to drees the rubber rings away from the heat of the GI lamps.

Ok gotchya. Thats the beauty when using LEDs.

#4758 78 days ago

Can anyone explain the difference between WMS coil AE-23-800-01, AE-23-800-02 and AE-23-800-03 etc.? I noticed during my swap and changing a sling shot coil sleeve that the sleeve was very hard to remove indicating that the coil must have swelled at one point. Although it worked fine, I want to replace it while I have it apart. The slings, pops, saucer and lane feed are 03 , hideouts, 02, the ball diverter 01. Kickback is 24-900-01.

The WMS Blue book for HS shows one AE-23-800-01, one -02, seven -03 and three -05, my game has no -05.

#4760 77 days ago
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

I believe the -XX specifies different kinds of coil sleeves. There is no difference in the coil itself.

Oh geez! Thanks, that make sense.

#4761 77 days ago

I ran into another snag, this time it's the sling shot kicker arm. There is no diagram in either the manual or the WMS parts catalog for sling shot parts, only show the hideout kickers which have a different pivot arm, no plastic tip or long striker arm. Marco said this part will work in HS, A-12664. It does work but the striker arm is too short to activate the score switch and the hairpin groove spacing is off from the original.

If anybody has replaced theirs, what did you use? Can the plastic tip be changed like Ballys?

#4762 77 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I ran into another snag, this time it's the sling shot kicker arm. There is no diagram in either the manual or the WMS parts catalog for sling shot parts, only show the hideout kickers which have a different pivot arm, no plastic tip or long striker arm. Marco said this part will work in HS, A-12664. It does work but the striker arm is too short to activate the score switch and the hairpin groove spacing is off from the original.
If anybody has replaced theirs, what did you use? Can the plastic tip be changed like Ballys?

I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. I have my friend's Cyclone here for board work and I looked at the slings. Same as HS but Cyc doesn't need the striker arm even though it has them. The Cyc has a separate parts manual that actually shows the sling assys. and the kicker arm is A-7986. Marco has them even though they are not listed under HS game specific parts duh!

#4770 72 days ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

Will try and keep this short but here goes....
Three months ago I had a pop bumper lock on and fry during a game. Pulled the playfield and completely rebuilt the pop bumpers. Did a few other chores while I had it out and also found some frayed wires that I repaired. Grumpy was gracious enough to do some noob hand-holding and guide me through some cpu repair related to the special solenoid section. I would have to look at the board to refresh my memory but I think I wound up replacing Q72,Q73, U45, U49, U50 and SR20. Basically Grumpy would have me test something and advise me on replacement. I would order parts, wait for the mail, replace and retest. Was taking a bit of time with all the back and forth and I had an issue with Pinside no longer letting me send images in messages. Main issue at this point is that 1J18 is not getting 5 volts on the solenoid pins and causes the solenoids to act eradically, locking on, not firing, etc.. I can't thank Grumpy enough for his help and patience with me. Somewhere around this time the wife started squeaking about how long things were taking. She wanted to play, had some family over she wanted to play, etc. I started looking into local repair people. Several said they don't work on system 11s, others outright ghosted me. So I got desperate. Looked into Rottendog boards. Online reviews are extremely hit and miss with them it seems. Contacted a dealer who had them in stock and also contacted Rottendog to express my concerns with reported issues with them. The dealer was not familiar with issues that other people have had. Rottendog says use the newest roms and new processors and it will be fine. It was not fine. Had the same sounds issues many others complained about and it was also making my playfield lights flash along with random sounds, especially the engine revving sound. Was able to return board for a full refund. At this time I had also looked into Dumbass's boards. Initially he indicated that with his work load it might take a few weeks to get me a board which is one reason I tried the Rottendog as I was able to get it in a few days. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing..... I was fortunate enough that Dumbass wound up with a board that was for someone else but they cancelled so I purchased it. Enter the United States Postal Service. It was shipped with 2 day shipping. Two days after shipping it showed it went to a processing center where it promptly disappeared into the void of lost packages for two weeks. Tracking showed nothing for 15 days and then it shows arrived at my post office and it's out for delivery. Also had a Christmas card delivered in February this year. Don't ask me what I think about the USPS right now. So I finally get my Dumbass board. This thing is sexy! First off the boards are red if you are unfamiliar with them. Everything is clean and precise and perfect looking. It looks like a machine built it. I hate hiding it in my back box. So the chowder head installer(me) accidentally cross-pinned one connection and fried a few fuses and had to wait until Monday to pick some up. Another long story short and it wasn't functioning properly. Turned out I needed to replace one of the PIA chips which Dumbass sent me a replacement for. Game is spot on now! Sound is great, rebuilt pop bumpers are banging, everything works and I'm ecstatic to have my High Speed back again! It actually is working better than before. I had swapped out my flashers for leds(yes I cut the warming resistors), and they have been flickering, especially when pushing the flipper buttons. They are not flickering now. My green traffic light lamp at the ramp entrance was also acting wonky and it has also been steady since I put the new board in. Maybe I jiggled something, maybe it's the board, I am not an expert, you tell me. Honestly I can't say enough good things about the new board and Dumbass's outstanding service and communication. If you need new board I would highly recommend them.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

That was a great story! Somebody from the following thread turned me on to DumbAss boards. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-system-11-bullet-proofing-thread

I agree the red is a sexy looking board. I have been working on 2 HS games. I'm currently about 75% through a swap now. In the mean time, a friend was having issues with a Cyclone System 11B game. His MPU has corrosion and I was preparing to fix the board. When I got into de-soldering, I realized I may not ever get the board to work and if I did, it would probably fail or have issues later. He and I agreed that the DumbAss board is the way to go. Letting him do the soldering for the 11B and I'm ordering a blank board for one of these HS pins and will give it a go on soldering in the components.

Why is it that the package you want the most always seems to get in mail, UGH!

#4784 69 days ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

Anyone one else have issues with the ball going up the San Diego(?) Freeway into the saucer? Minimum %50 of the time it skitters around the lip and doesn't drop in. Doesn't look like there's any adjustment anywhere other than bending the metal angle down a bit which I'm not sure would help.

Perhaps the plastic dish on the bottom is worn? Maybe switch tab is bent and preventing the ball from dropping in. Debris in saucer?

#4790 69 days ago

2.2 uF caps for flippers. My game didn't have them but they came with the rebuild kit. Could somebody please explain how to wire them in and post some pics please?

What is the purpose of these, I'm guess to reduce arcing on the EOSs?

#4797 66 days ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Finally started my HS restoration. Backbox trial#1 with MDF was a no go, but learned what not to do for #2. Will drill pilot holes for the forstner bits and use a scrap board to prevent the tear outs. I will also use my router as well. Trial and error, gotta love it.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Did the same with an EBD but I changed it to drawer grade plywood.

#4820 62 days ago

Has anybody tried a 1156 lamp in the upper flashers? It's an automotive lamp and is rated for 12V as the #89 is and they come in red. Found a pair on Amazon for $6 so I figured what the heck! Even though I put Comets in all the inserts and GI, I want to keep incandescent lamps in the flashers. I'm not finished the swap yet so will let ya'll know how the work out.

#4823 61 days ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I usually break the swap into 2 components, refreshing of mechanisms, polishing of parts, and clean up I count separately from the actual swap activity. I did a Flash Gordon swap as my second swap and that is comparably complicated to High Speed. I think it took me 50 hours of total effort for the FG swap. I would say High Speed was almost double. Both were CPR play fields but for High Speed there are so many more screws, each of which needed a pilot hole drilled. The dimples on the High Speed were maybe used only 20% of the time. I had to carefully compare between the new and old PF constantly to figure out placement. Dimples were often near where they needed to be but not close enough to use as is. It got to the point where I triple checked if I was about to use the CPR dimple location. There were missing holes occasionally, necessitating drilling through the playfield which is a nerve-wracking ordeal. All of this kept adding time to it. I was really happy when I was done.
I have a Diner and a Taxi that need swaps at some point and I did a lot of comparisons to them and they are just way less complicated on the underside compared to High Speed.
I should also point out that I have plenty of tools for the job, no shortage there. I just don't want to make any serious errors so I take my time. I also had to replace a lot of screws where the hard PF plys broke heads off the original screws which also slowed things down.

I'm doing an HS swap now. Luckily it's a nos and the holes are spot on. What makes is better is that the dimples are actually partially drill so you can just run the screws in.

Honestly the hs swap was easier than I expected compared to early solid state games with all that trace wire for the lamps. No drop target banks to deal with. Actually the hardest part for me was all 15 stand up targets. Drilling out the rivets and replacing the faces and new rivets.
Replacing the hideout micros was no picnic either.

But I know your pain with cpr dimples. I swapped f2k, 2 xenon, 3 ebd, bally star trek and FG all cpr.

On cpr I use a little bar soap on the post screws to keep the screws from breaking. Old time carpenters trick but they used a soap stone instead.

#4830 61 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Just a note for some thought, #1156 bulbs use 28 watts and #89 bulbs use 7 watts. Most of the time on HS the flasher bulbs are 2 bulbs in series with a dropping resistor. I think your going to over heat the dropping resistor if they are on to long. In game play it might be fine, but in test you may cook the resistors if left on too long. Also at 2 amp draw each, the fuse on the power supply may not hold very long. They will definingly be bright if you can make it work. Not sure why you are avoiding red #89 leds though.

Dammit, I didn't think about the extra wattage. No LED because if I don't like them I will need to re-solder the resistor and that one is a pain to get to. In fact, those uppers never worked on this game since I had it. When I started the swap I found out why, both resistors had broken leads.

As far as blowing the fuse, I have all LED's in GI and switched lamps so that should ease the load. If I can remember to pull 1156's out before self test I think it will work. If it's a failure I can always try adding the lens cover at the upper left corner, mod from another Pinsider, and go back to the #63.

#4832 60 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

One other thing to look at is the total wattage. You maybe a bit too high for longevity with the standard TIP122 transistor (65 watts). If you change it out for a TIP102 it may hold up longer at 80 watts. Or you can add a relay in between just like the kick back coil.

That's good to know, thanks.

I don't know how to wire in a relay. It may be more trouble than it's worth. The LED option is looking better now or find some red paint that is glass compatible and paint 63 or 89s.

#4840 58 days ago

Anyone know the rivet length for the flasher lenses?

#4842 58 days ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

So I guess I need a multi meter with diode test....
[quoted image]

Fluke 117

#4847 53 days ago

Need some help. I'm wrapping up the PF swap. Doing some testing before installing ramp and plastics. All lamps 100%. Upon testing coils the fuse 2.5A blew but not right away. No trouble with coils prior to swap. I started by checking coil resistance. When I got to the saucer, I was getting .1 ohm. Clipped dioded and tested and it was shorted, so replaced it. Blew fuse again instantly. I took a second look and discovered that I wired the coil backwards. So the diode I had just replaced got smoked. Replaced it again and re-wired the coil correctly this time. I thought I was good. Started game, I heard the lockout coil kick on. When I fed the first ball into the trough, the fuse blew again right after the ball feed coil fired.

I triple checked all the coil wiring. All good. Is it possible that I took out the driver transistor for the saucer Q32 when I had the coil wired backwards? If so, will that cause the coil fuse to blow out? Can I test the transistor w/o removing it from the CPU?

#4849 52 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Any time you install a diode backwards you will pull more current then the diode and transistors can handle. I wouldn't even test them, I would just replace the predriver and drive transistor.

Will do and report back...Thanks!

#4850 52 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Any time you install a diode backwards you will pull more current then the diode and transistors can handle. I wouldn't even test them, I would just replace the predriver and drive transistor.

Can I test the transistors on board with diode setting, if so, how? My flashers are out behind back glass.

#4856 52 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Yes. There are videos on U-tube on this. As for your flashers not working, start by using a jumper wire hooked to ground and briefly touch the other end to the metal tab of correct transistor. If the flashers light with the jumper, then you have a board issue. If the flashers don't light with the jumper then you have a bad dropping resistor or burnt out bulb.

Success! I changed out Q32 and 18, all good now. The backbox flashers are working now with new bulbs and cleaning the sockets. For a while only the left 2 lamps were lighting, then none. I was thinking these were paired like the PF flashers but I see all for are driven by one transistor. I think you said earlier that these are wired in series so if one bulb is out the other won't light? When ohming the warming resistors, I was getting 168 ohms on the 330 ohm resistors, but I think it was picking up the entire circuit or the two 330 ohms were paralleled since there are 2 warming circuits in the back box? It's been almost 40 years since I took electronics in school but I remember some of ohm's law. To get the total resistance from a circuit of paralleled resistors, you take the reciprocal of each resistor value then add them together? Heck IDK!

Another goofy thing I did tonight, I have an extra sys 11 CPU that I bought maybe 8-10 years ago and has been sitting since. Was supposedly good when purchased, no corrosion at all. I wanted to try it before fixing the other CPU. I had 2 locked coils, both specials and almost smoked the left pop and left sling. That would be Q69 and 75.

After fixing original CPU and putting it back in and plugging in connectors, I noticed 1J18 is keyed at pin 1. This was stupid because I may have been off by a pin previously on the spare CPU causing those coils to lock on. What puzzled me was that the coil fuse was not in the board, yet the coils came on. Now I see what all the fuss is about special solenoids.

#4859 50 days ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

Almost forgot- A few months ago I was having issues getting the ball to go all the way up the ramp on launch. While I had my play field out I removed the wooden side rail next to the ball trough. The ball would lean against the right side and not sit down in the slot in the play field which seemed like it would create a lot of drag. At least that's what they would say during the bobsled runs at the Olympics- don't touch the wall! I ran the side rail through my table saw and took 1/8" off of the inside edge. I ran the cut up until it's hidden under the "Don't drink and drive" plastic, where I stopped the cut rather than go all the way. Had to cut the spiral nails down when I re-installed the metal side piece. Ball has about 3/32" space between it and the right side of the trough now. Makes the ramp shots with ease now!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I remember this. Did you ever check the shooter spring? It should be the red one, extra strong. It seems that your PF has some extreme wear on the shooter lane that causes the ball to sit off center? Or the shooter rod is too short? Maybe somebody changed it at some point with the wrong type? I'm guessing this solved your problem though?

#4860 50 days ago

Almost done my swap. This is number 10 for me and so far the most complicated. Just waiting for Cliffy flipper return guides that I just found out about. Notice far right spinner is black. These are NOS, IDK where the black came from but I installed it anyway.

Thanks to Freeplay40 for the red ramp option.
Thanks to @Robtune for the traffic light mod.
Thanks to Comet for the non-ghosting LED option.
Thanks for PBR for having parts for the ramp diverter and other needed parts.
Thanks to PBL for the Britecaps and other parts needed.
Thanks to Mark Klein for selling the NOS pf and plastics to me.
Thanks to annex (Andrew Parent) for beautiful clear coat job.
Thanks to PinPilot for sharing his upper flasher mod.
And thanks to everyone else on this thread for answering my questions.

P8110125 (resized).JPGP8110127 (resized).JPGP9050134 (resized).JPGP9050136 (resized).JPGP9050137 (resized).JPGP9050139 (resized).JPGP9060143 (resized).JPGP9070146 (resized).JPGP9070151 (resized).JPG
#4863 49 days ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

Nice job, Do you have a parts list of what you replaced? Always good to know what you changed? Who did your rails? I like that color choice.
Ken

Thanks!

The rails were done by a local shop. I have an extra set in the same color on the Market Place.

I basically rebuilt all of the mechanicals except the saucer eject. I did put a new plunger and coil sleeve though.

Pops totally rebuilt with all new parts.
Flippers all rebuilt. Original plates were good.
New hideout kicker arm assemblies and pivots. New micros on the top side of pf for the hideouts.
New kicker arm assemblies and pivot on slings. New sling switches.
New switches for the star rollover buttons.
Overhaul on the ball diverter, new shaft assemblies, coil stop, plunger, sleeve, springs, cranks and bushings. Had the main assembly nickel plated.
Installed new faces on the standup targets, new switch pads behind them.
NOS plastics
NOS spinners
reused red post after running through dishwasher.
Tumbled hardware and metal posts.
Re-grained the ball guides.
All new flasher lamp sockets.
New GI sockets.
Comet LED's.
New outhole kicker assembly.
replaced kickback relay
Replaced 100 uF caps for snubber relays.
Cleaned all feature lamp sockets with brass wire attachment on Dremel.
Cleaned all other switch contacts with a dollar bill.
I did not wash the harness in fear of getting the snubber relays wet or damaging all the diodes throughout the playfield. It wasn't that dirty to begin with.
I added 3 pin connectors to the ball feed and kickback coils for easy change out if ever needed.
Have a repro apron (not pictured) that I bought 10 years ago. I don't remember who made them, maybe Merf?

#4869 47 days ago
Quoted from DanMarino:

LoveF2k, that looks amazing! Well done!

Thanks! I can't wait to play it.

#4875 42 days ago
Quoted from Teejay68:

Just finished testing the new under cabinet lighting circuit that I designed and programmed using an Arduino microcontroller. The ambient lighting is green and is dimmable in a steady state, or can be set to "breathe", then shuts off when the rotating beacon activates and the red and blue flash. All the patterns can be changed within the software and so far my favorite pattern is: the red and blue lights strobe for 5 sets of 5 quick strobes, then 5 sets of quick solid back and forth flashes then the cycle repeats. Adds a whole new level to the police chase. Here are a couple quick videos of the results, with the green lighting set to breathe.

very cool

#4877 42 days ago
Quoted from STLOkie:

That looks incredible with the red ramp AND the red rails. Fantastic work.

Thanks! Nice work on the traffic light mod! I love those custom spinner decals also, very clever.

#4887 38 days ago
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

Let me know if this helps. I have some more detailed pics as well
[quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image]

Take note that the left top side micro for the hideout is very close to the long ball guide. The solder tabs were actually cut down during assembly to make clearance. During my swap I added a piece of fish paper to the rear of the ball guide to prevent any shorts.

#4890 36 days ago
Quoted from Hangernade:

Rediscovered this lost childhood treasure of my son's. Kind of want to wire it into the stoplight circuit and hang it on the wall near the game. Just because.......!
[quoted image]

Do it!

#4902 30 days ago

Part needed. While prepping the PF for hardtop, I broke this micro switch actuator arm. It's not removable so I need the mounting plate as well. Either side will work, bot the same. Thanks in advance!

P9260032 (resized).JPGP9260033 (resized).JPGP9260034 (resized).JPG
#4909 29 days ago
Quoted from eyeamred2u:

A-11043 Ball Deflector & Rollover Wire Assy
Page 347 of Williams Blue parts manual

Is that just the base w actuator or entire assembly with micro. I got D 11047 in the parts manual.

#4910 29 days ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

You could easily remake that arm with the PBR piano wire sample kit.

I actually thought of that. I think I have a piece of .051 wire but not sure if I can make those 90 degree bends that are so close together.

2 weeks later
#4918 15 days ago
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

I believe this may be the correct one. B-9463 (A little pricey)
I think the other is for the Hideouts.
Here is Action Pinball but it is out of stock... http://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=A-7986

I got them from Marco a couple of months ago. They were not on the game specific search. Search by part number.

#4919 15 days ago

This is what you need for HS slings:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-7986

I just installed these on my game and they perfectly.

#4920 15 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

This is what you need for HS slings:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-7986
I just installed these on my game and they perfectly.

work

1 week later
#4931 4 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

A couple of rules questions:
After I run the red light and lock the first ball in the hideout for multiball, sometimes I'll get two ball multiball, sometimes three ball. Why the difference? The only thing I can figure is that with two ball, I'm plunging the second one so fast that the ramp "stopper" doesn't catch it and put it in the other hideout, and once it hits something on the playfield, that's it, no third ball.
When I start multiball, all the red/amber/green inserts in front of the standups are unlit. As I hit them during multiball, they light up, but I don't think I've ever gotten all nine. Is there some bonus score for hitting all nine? Do they then stay lit or go dark and start over again?
Non-rules question:
I have a flat spot in the sheet metal of my apron right above the outhole and the Williams "W" in the circle. Damned if I could figure out why until a few fast balls did a drain under the raised left flipper, hit the wire guide just below it, and went airborne and hit the apron in the flat spot. I'm guessing this is fairly common to High Speed's and not peculiar to mine?

I have a second HS that works but I never really played it yet. Doing a hardtop right now but the opening of the apron hood behind the flippers is all peened on the edge. I was baffled by this so yes this could be a common problem. My other HS that I have had for years never done this. The only thing I can think of is that the buffer wires below the flippers are not down all the way. Or maybe incorrect pitch of the pf. I think the recommended pitch is 6 degrees?

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