(Topic ID: 69131)

High Speed Club ~ Dispatch, this is 504. We have a Club now, over.

By lordloss

7 years ago


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#4501 6 months ago
Quoted from koji:

First, thought I'd share this epic game with my kid last night. Low increment jackpot values too!.. and my first time getting the hideout multiball extra ball ..
Been crazy days for high speed.. the night before my family had a quadruple match?!?
Second, for the freeplay ramps, I was wondering what the gameplay difference is like? Would you say more likely to make the shot, and less partially up the ramp weaker ones not making it? better control for a repeat ramp shot? or pretty much the same just cosmetic?
Last, on the left outlane kickback, wondering what the consensus would be on where you want to ball to end up operationally? I find mine most commonly hits the divider between the right freeway and the escape and bounces back down... once in a while it creeps up the right freeway... just curious.
Thank you
[quoted image]

Not sure I know what the multiball freeball is.

I have a freeplay ramp in red, mine old one was epoxied together and I would say the biggest difference is the smoothness and it is quieter being thicker. Also no need for the yellowed old cover. Odds really are no different in making the ramp for me.

My kick back is pretty consistent about shooting right to the right spinner cleanly. On a good shot it will just make it around and fall into the pops. Usually it is through the spinner a bit.

#4502 6 months ago

My first pin and easily one of the favs in my collection and, thankfully, I can now play High Speed at my mom's too!? I can hardly tell the difference!

20210323_150144.jpg
#4503 6 months ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Not sure I know what the multiball freeball is.
I have a freeplay ramp in red, mine old one was epoxied together and I would say the biggest difference is the smoothness and it is quieter being thicker. Also no need for the yellowed old cover. Odds really are no different in making the ramp for me.
My kick back is pretty consistent about shooting right to the right spinner cleanly. On a good shot it will just make it around and fall into the pops. Usually it is through the spinner a bit.

Cool thank you.

For the multiball extra ball:
"During Multi-Ball and *after* scoring a jackpot, all nine target lights may again be spotted in any order to light the Extra Ball. Ramp shots and the eject hole will not help you here."

Pretty rare for me, as HS is such a quick multiball drain ..

#4504 6 months ago
Quoted from koji:

Cool thank you.
For the multiball extra ball:
"During Multi-Ball and *after* scoring a jackpot, all nine target lights may again be spotted in any order to light the Extra Ball. Ramp shots and the eject hole will not help you here."
Pretty rare for me, as HS is such a quick multiball drain ..

Definitely did not know about that one. I am in the middle of a playfield swap but I will test that out soon.

#4505 6 months ago

Does anyone know the part number for the shooter rod housing sleeve? Don't see it in manual or parts cat.

#4506 6 months ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Does anyone know the part number for the shooter rod housing sleeve? Don't see it in manual or parts cat.

https://www.pinballlife.com/ball-shooter-sleeve.html

#4508 6 months ago

Looking for this ball deflector. Part number is 01-8217. Anyone have one for sale?

20210326_174859 (resized).jpg
#4509 6 months ago
Quoted from daly124:

Looking for this ball deflector. Part number is 01-8217. Anyone have one for sale?
[quoted image]

I do. Make me an offer...

01-8217

#4510 6 months ago

RAMP/DIVERTER QUESTION: I have owned my HS for a year and it works pretty good. The one issue I have from time to time is with the ramp/diverter switches. They usually work ok and the first ramp ball goes down the right hideout and the 2nd ramp ball goes down the left hideout and there is a rotation after that. But sometimes the ball will go up the ramp fast and the Ramp Gate/Diverter will not activate at all and the ball will just come out by the upper flipper. I assume this is because the switches under the ramp are not adjusted properly. (Someone please tell me if my assumption is wrong).
I know - I think - that there are 2 switches under the ramp (42 and 43) and these activate the ramp gate solenoid (13). I do not understand how these 2 switches are connected. I assume switch 42 does not work on the first ramp shot and 43 activates the gate. Then on the next ramp ball, switch 42 activates the gate. Can someone please tell me how these switches are connected so they know how to work together?
Also if my ball goes up the ramp and does not activate the gate assembly - I assume one of my switches needs to be adjusted a little closer....Is that correct?
I know there has been a lot written and discussed on this issue and I have spent plenty of time reading it all but I still have questions.

#4511 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

RAMP/DIVERTER QUESTION: I have owned my HS for a year and it works pretty good. The one issue I have from time to time is with the ramp/diverter switches. They usually work ok and the first ramp ball goes down the right hideout and the 2nd ramp ball goes down the left hideout and there is a rotation after that. But sometimes the ball will go up the ramp fast and the Ramp Gate/Diverter will not activate at all and the ball will just come out by the upper flipper. I assume this is because the switches under the ramp are not adjusted properly. (Someone please tell me if my assumption is wrong).
I know - I think - that there are 2 switches under the ramp (42 and 43) and these activate the ramp gate solenoid (13). I do not understand how these 2 switches are connected. I assume switch 42 does not work on the first ramp shot and 43 activates the gate. Then on the next ramp ball, switch 42 activates the gate. Can someone please tell me how these switches are connected so they know how to work together?
Also if my ball goes up the ramp and does not activate the gate assembly - I assume one of my switches needs to be adjusted a little closer....Is that correct?
I know there has been a lot written and discussed on this issue and I have spent plenty of time reading it all but I still have questions.

Possibly adjustment or possibly dirty....

#4512 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

RAMP/DIVERTER QUESTION: I have owned my HS for a year and it works pretty good. The one issue I have from time to time is with the ramp/diverter switches. They usually work ok and the first ramp ball goes down the right hideout and the 2nd ramp ball goes down the left hideout and there is a rotation after that. But sometimes the ball will go up the ramp fast and the Ramp Gate/Diverter will not activate at all and the ball will just come out by the upper flipper. I assume this is because the switches under the ramp are not adjusted properly. (Someone please tell me if my assumption is wrong).
I know - I think - that there are 2 switches under the ramp (42 and 43) and these activate the ramp gate solenoid (13). I do not understand how these 2 switches are connected. I assume switch 42 does not work on the first ramp shot and 43 activates the gate. Then on the next ramp ball, switch 42 activates the gate. Can someone please tell me how these switches are connected so they know how to work together?
Also if my ball goes up the ramp and does not activate the gate assembly - I assume one of my switches needs to be adjusted a little closer....Is that correct?
I know there has been a lot written and discussed on this issue and I have spent plenty of time reading it all but I still have questions.

This is a good one for GRUMPY . I always start with the easiest things first, although getting to the ramp switches isn't that easy on HS. Switch adjustment and/or cleaning never hurts and doesn't cost anything. I recently removed a ramp on a HS that I have had for years now. The switch blades were all jacked up. I was amazed it worked at all but my game will do the same as yours, just blast through the ramp to the upper left flipper.

Have you performed the switch test in self diagnostics? Confirm that there are no stuck switches. Remove all balls prior so that the trough switches are open. Maybe the game is not able to keep track of the balls and is confused.

It's also common on solid state games that have these types of switches to be missed by the CPU when hit very fast. Capacitors were added to help with this issue and the ramp switches do not have them.

Finally, make sure the diverter is working and is adjusted properly. Try rolling the ball up there slowly and see if the ball ends up in the right hideout first consistently.

#4513 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

I assume one of my switches needs to be adjusted a little closer....Is that correct?

This game is 35 years old, the switches are most likely originals and the gold plating is just plain worn out. There are no replacements available. So buy some gold contacts from PBR and solder them to the original leafs and your ramp will work perfectly again for 30 more years.

#4514 6 months ago

Thanks everyone for helping. I have checked everything in diagnostics and it all checks out ok. Since this is the only HS I have worked on - I am just not sure how sensitive those 2 switches need to be. About 2 months ago I took the whole ramp assembly apart and cleaned everything and adjusted everything and it worked perfect for about 6 weeks - maybe 400 games. I bought the medium switch blades, fish paper and SM-X contacts from Pinball Resource thinking I would need to rebuild the switches. I remember it was a lot of work taking it all apart so need to get motivated to do it again. I am a huge Grumpy fan (and a fan of others who contribute a lot on this Forum) so if he says it should be done....It should be done.
Did I buy the right pieces to rebuild the switches (42 and 43)?

#4515 6 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

So buy some gold contacts from PBR and solder them to the original leafs

How do I get the contacts off the original leafs? Do I just heat them like I was desoldering?

#4516 6 months ago

Just did some practice on an old leaf switch I had. I used my side-cutters to cut off the old contact and it seemed to work. Is this the best way to do it?

#4517 6 months ago

OK. This project is happening tomorrow. Got to say - These projects would be a lot easier if my kids could go to school and my wife could go to her office...Respectfully.

#4518 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

RAMP/DIVERTER QUESTION: I have owned my HS for a year and it works pretty good. The one issue I have from time to time is with the ramp/diverter switches. They usually work ok and the first ramp ball goes down the right hideout and the 2nd ramp ball goes down the left hideout and there is a rotation after that. But sometimes the ball will go up the ramp fast and the Ramp Gate/Diverter will not activate at all and the ball will just come out by the upper flipper. I assume this is because the switches under the ramp are not adjusted properly. (Someone please tell me if my assumption is wrong).
I know - I think - that there are 2 switches under the ramp (42 and 43) and these activate the ramp gate solenoid (13). I do not understand how these 2 switches are connected. I assume switch 42 does not work on the first ramp shot and 43 activates the gate. Then on the next ramp ball, switch 42 activates the gate. Can someone please tell me how these switches are connected so they know how to work together?
Also if my ball goes up the ramp and does not activate the gate assembly - I assume one of my switches needs to be adjusted a little closer....Is that correct?
I know there has been a lot written and discussed on this issue and I have spent plenty of time reading it all but I still have questions.

I had success with installing mini micro switches for the two ramp leaf switches.

#4519 6 months ago

So you replaced the rollover/switch with a rollover sub-microswitch like Marco sells? How did you attach the microswitch - with a bracket screwed into _____? And did you wire it with a diode?

#4520 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

How do I get the contacts off the original leafs? Do I just heat them like I was desoldering?

I use the .08 blades from PBR but they were out of stock a couple of weeks ago.

The switch contact is like a rivet. Just grind the back side off and it should practically fall out. The new contacts can be peened over on the back side but soldering will make the best connection.

Quoted from The_Great_Man:

Just did some practice on an old leaf switch I had. I used my side-cutters to cut off the old contact and it seemed to work. Is this the best way to do it?

Any way that you can remove them w/o damaging the blade is fine. I like the .008 blades from PBR but they are out of stock, only have medium and heavy right now. The new contacts have a flared piece that gets peened over to install them. Make sure you have the blades oriented correctly so that the solder lugs on the bottom are separate from each other, made that mistake before. You'll never get the new contact as tight as the factory so as Grumpy said, solder them.

#4521 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

So you replaced the rollover/switch with a rollover sub-microswitch like Marco sells? How did you attach the microswitch - with a bracket screwed into ____? And did you wire it with a diode?

I replaced the leaf switch part with the long flat blade mini micro switch.
Like what is used in the outhole trough for ball one.
The micro switch angle bracket fits the 6/32 screw studs...
Mounting nuts are 1/4" outside with 6/32 cut threads...
Like the nuts used to mount the displays in the back box.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-11680

#4522 6 months ago

I have some of the medium thickness blades - .012 - from PBR but I would like to try to use the existing blades. Do you press the contacts after you fit them through the leaf hole with pliers or something else or do you just push them through and solder them? I like the microswitch idea but that might be overkill.

#4523 6 months ago

Can I use this https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-rollover-sub-microswitch-5647-12693-19.html
with this https://www.pinballlife.com/black-plastic-microswitch-bracket.html
and this https://www.pinballlife.com/diode-1n4004.html

It is hard for me to know what to use without taking the ramp apart and seeing the switches. And when I do take the ramp apart I want to be able to have the parts ready to fix it. I would like to have the microswitch parts ready when I do the work then decide if I use the leaf switches or the microswitch.

#4524 6 months ago

Using a microswitch and never having to remove the ramp and adjust or clean the switches again is appealing to my engineer instincts. I have to think that if they were building it now - they would use microswitches under the ramp....at least.

#4525 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

I have some of the medium thickness blades - .012 - from PBR but I would like to try to use the existing blades. Do you press the contacts after you fit them through the leaf hole with pliers or something else or do you just push them through and solder them? I like the microswitch idea but that might be overkill.

The .012 may be too stiff for this application. A thinner blade will react faster and still have enough tension to spring back. You cannot use pliers to set the contacts, it will damage them. They are very soft and hollow. I place the contacts face down on some felt material that I bought from a craft store. Then place blade over the contact and use a tiny ball peen hammer to flatten the back sides. You can also use some painter's tape to hold the contacts in the blades since they are so tiny and get lost easily.

The WMS part # for this switch is SW-1A-124. PBL doesn't have it but the SW-1A-120 they do have, which I believe is the same, just doesn't have the insulator (fish paper) above the long leaf. But you can add those easily, reuse from old switches or by new.

#4526 6 months ago

I have the fish paper from PBR. Might give it a try in the morning. Thanks for the help.

#4527 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

Using a microswitch and never having to remove the ramp and adjust or clean the switches again is appealing to my engineer instincts. I have to think that if they were building it now - they would use microswitches under the ramp....at least.

They still go bad tho on pinballs, or the armature needs to be adjusted as they require a bit more force and so on.

Got me thinking tho.. how about a ramp with optos?

#4528 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

do you just push them through and solder them?

That is all I do. Once this is done you will never need to adjust them again. They need to be adjusted so that they have a wiping motion after closing to keep the contacts clean. I have had my HS since 1990 with no issues in a HUO situation.

#4529 6 months ago
Quoted from koji:

Got me thinking tho.. how about a ramp with optos?

Ask M&M creations to make a MRS switch for this.

#4530 6 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Ask M&M creations to make a MRS switch for this.

Just a thought.. like you, my leafs are adjusted well and trouble free... but if I were doing some work on that area, might be a fun mod to try, but likely more trouble than it is worth.

#4531 6 months ago

So I get myself motivated to do all the work on my switches today. Took 45 minutes to get set up and the ramp off. And when I looked I realized that the switches (42 and 43) were brand new. Apparently I replaced them when I cleaned everything a couple months ago. But I did close the gap on these switches and cleaned the rollover switches. Hard to tell from these pictures but does that gap in the switches look good? Thanks.

IMG_3254 (resized).jpgIMG_3257 (1) (resized).jpg
#4532 6 months ago

Wait a minute....Isn't there supposed to be fish tape in there somewhere.

#4533 6 months ago

Never mind....Looks like it is there.

#4534 6 months ago

I bought a universal MRS for the first switch on my ramp because it routinely likes to miss it (usually when I'm really stoked to hit it, IE jackpot shots or running a damn red light, which then forces me to hit it again and makes me mad). I had some hopping issues with the way I had my FP40 ramp installed (MY OWN FAULT; I'm in no way attributing my problems to the FP40 ramp and I want to be clear that I'm not!) and that's better now that the ramp has been reinstalled correctly (D'OH!), but still not playing perfectly nicely with my switches here and there. When my HS gets back home I intend to install the switch and see if that alleviates the problem. If it does, that's a cheap fix for something that's causing a whole hell of a lot of frustration on my machine. My game plays fantastically aside from that one issue, so it's the fixture for all of my rage when I play it, lol.

#4535 6 months ago

Where did you get the Universal MRS? I know someone was selling them on Pinside. Sounds like a good fix to a problem that has been around a long time.

Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

I bought a universal MRS

#4536 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

So I get myself motivated to do all the work on my switches today. Took 45 minutes to get set up and the ramp off. And when I looked I realized that the switches (42 and 43) were brand new. Apparently I replaced them when I cleaned everything a couple months ago. But I did close the gap on these switches and cleaned the rollover switches. Hard to tell from these pictures but does that gap in the switches look good? Thanks.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Did you solder the new contacts in? I heard that can work well.. I've never had any issues with my soldered contacts.

Maybe worth checking up the circuit as well to make sure the wiring and pins are all good as well?

#4537 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

Where did you get the Universal MRS? I know someone was selling them on Pinside. Sounds like a good fix to a problem that has been around a long time.

Sonic is your man for the MRS switch.

#4538 6 months ago

My ramp switches always worked well until the droopy clear ramp shield sunk down and stopped the ball from getting up the ramp.
I warmed it up and raised it it.
Now the ball goes thru so fast that from time to time, the switches/ diverter do not activate.
It sucks if you run the red light and send it right back up the ramp and it does not register the escape.
I think the shield has been slowing the ball down since i owned the game. Not enough to prevent getting around ramp but enough to be sure switches made.

#4539 6 months ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

My ramp switches always worked well until the droopy clear ramp shield sunk down and stopped the ball from getting up the ramp.
I warmed it up and raised it it.
Now the ball goes thru so fast that from time to time, the switches/ diverter do not activate.
It sucks if you run the red light and send it right back up the ramp and it does not register the escape.
I think the shield has been slowing the ball down since i owned the game. Not enough to prevent getting around ramp but enough to be sure switches made.

Yup. I genuinely feel that the lack of the cover on mine only helps this sort of behavior to manifest. IIRC my switches never failed to activate with the original POS ramp, but it had that nasty cover on it. Feels like a battle between cool aesthetics and proper function, at least on my machine, and that totally sucks.

I'm hoping the MRS fixes my woes. It's definitely frustrating when it doesn't register an escape.

#4540 6 months ago

I have sent a message to Sonic about getting a micro switch for the ramp. Do you need a diode with the MRS? I assume you will just stick the switch underneath the ramp where the old switch was or maybe stick it on the backside of the ramp?

#4541 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

I have sent a message to Sonic about getting a micro switch for the ramp. Do you need a diode with the MRS? I assume you will just stick the switch underneath the ramp where the old switch was or maybe stick it on the backside of the ramp?

My understanding is that it just gets stuck under the ramp, roughly where the original (first) switch is, and then the wires need soldered in the appropriate spots rather than on the leaf switch. I put one in the spinout on my Taxi but haven't removed the original switch yet (I've been too lazy). It registers the spins correctly but without having removed the old microswitch, it didn't pick up any additional spins. But that's on me for not removing the old switch like I was instructed to do.

#4542 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

Do you need a diode with the MRS?

You need a diode with any switch in the matrix. The diodes for the ramp switches are mounted together under the play field on a terminal board. The only thing about mounting a MRS is keeping the timing the same as the original switch so the divertor arms are turned on at the right time.

#4543 6 months ago

Thanks Grumpy. So I just played about 10 games on my HS and the diverter/ramps are not working consistently. I know the switches are set good. Everything works perfect on the Switch Edges. But when I play - the ball very rarely goes up the ramp and down the left hideout. When I escape and am entering multi-ball, the diverter seems to work perfect and the first ball goes down the right hideout and the second ball goes down the left hideout - which I think is what is supposed to happen.
I think the picture I am attaching is that terminal board where the diodes for the switches are located - the wire colors from the board seem to match the wire colors on the switches (42 and 43). I am no diode expert but the one on the right appears a little different than the one on the left. Could something on this terminal board be causing the problem? And how would I check the components on that terminal board?
Am I correct in assuming that the balls should alternate going down the hideouts during normal gameplay: 1st ramp ball - right hideout, 2nd ramp ball - left hideout, 3rd ramp ball - right hideout... Or is it just dependent on how fast the ball is travelling as to which hideout each ball goes down (slower ball left hideout, faster ball right hideout).

IMG_3263 (resized).jpg
#4544 6 months ago

Just checked the 2 diodes on the board and they appear to be "healthy"....Got a reading of about .585 on each. Maybe tomorrow I will play around with the ramp switches while in game mode and see what happens.

#4545 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

Am I correct in assuming that the balls should alternate going down the hideouts during normal gameplay: 1st ramp ball - right hideout, 2nd ramp ball - left hideout, 3rd ramp ball - right hideout...
[quoted image]

You are correct. The game should alternate locking balls in either hideout during normal gameplay and you are correct on the order. The process starts over after a drain.

You are also correct on the hideout sequence for multi ball. Although, if you have freeplays new ramps and smoke a shot up the ramp for multi ball and it misses the left hideout and goes in the right, the game will know to lock the next ball in the left hideout.

#4546 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

Am I correct in assuming that the balls should alternate going down the hideouts during normal gameplay

Mine doesn't work like that, mine always goes into the left hideout with the first ball then the right hideout with the second ball. Your game sounds like the first switch isn't working 100 % of the time. This could be a lot of different things like miss adjusted switch, dirty contacts, ball hop, cracked header pins, bad diode, acid damage that ran down to J-8 and J-10, bad IDC connector, bad molex connector and a nearly broken wire hanging by one strand.

#4547 6 months ago

So I know I have some "weak" pins on the 14/15 pin connector at the top of the power supply board as shown in the picture. I have the capacitors to replace the existing ones and need to resolder the pins. I have been reluctant to do it because I have never done it and with some well placed electrical tape I can put enough pressure on the pins to make them work. Would one of those pins or capacitors be helping or causing my problem with the ramp/diverter.

IMG_3265 (resized).jpg
#4548 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

So I know I have some "weak" pins on the 14/15 pin connector at the top of the power supply board

The pins I was referring were on the CPU board, J-8 and J-10.

Quoted from The_Great_Man:

I have been reluctant to do it because I have never done it

You could send it to me and I could fix that for you cheap.

#4549 6 months ago

Thanks Grumpy. I may try to take off the board and start to do some work. If I can not do it - I will send it to you.

#4550 6 months ago
Quoted from The_Great_Man:

When I escape and am entering multi-ball, the diverter seems to work perfect and the first ball goes down the right hideout and the second ball goes down the left hideout - which I think is what is supposed to happen.
[quoted image]

Sorry, I misread your post. The sequence for multi-ball is left hideout first and then right hideout, my bad.

Quoted from The_Great_Man:

Am I correct in assuming that the balls should alternate going down the hideouts during normal gameplay: 1st ramp ball - right hideout, 2nd ramp ball - left hideout, 3rd ramp ball - right hideout...
[quoted image]

I think you're still right about normal gameplay, right hideout first and then left.

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