(Topic ID: 69131)

High Speed Club ~ Dispatch, this is 504. We have a Club now, over.


By lordloss

5 years ago



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There are 2810 posts in this topic. You are on page 52 of 57.
#2551 4 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Now it has not been replaced.

Voltages are great, replace C-30 just because.

#2552 4 months ago

Ok. Is it ok that I have no battery? I know my other sys 11s will at least boot.

#2553 4 months ago

What is the "mem protect" line on 1j14 ? I am trying to figure out what I may have done at this point. I know it was working till I swapped plugs.

#2554 4 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Is it ok that I have no battery?

Yes, but will come up adjust failure.

Quoted from Tomass:

What is the "mem protect" line on 1j14

This allows you to make changes to the game settings, must have the coin door open.

#2555 4 months ago

Ok. Well off to bed for the night. I will have to think on this. Really stumped now.

#2556 4 months ago

Does anyone have a suggestion on what to check next? To recap, I hastily put the mpu in and swapped a plug, which killed my high speed. I was trying to fix a stuck pop bumper but now it just gives a quick beep and nothing more on boot. Just rebuilt the ps and voltages are good. It was a while ago and I do not remember which plug I swapped, but it was between 1j13, 1j14, 1j15 and 1j16. Any help is appreciated.

#2557 4 months ago

Oh man, if Grumpy is stumped, I am in trouble. Maybe I should be posting for a sys 11 board.

#2558 4 months ago

Torn between which is better, high speed or high speed 2. Just played the original and forgot how addictive it was.

#2559 4 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Does anyone have a suggestion on what to check next? To recap, I hastily put the mpu in and swapped a plug, which killed my high speed. I was trying to fix a stuck pop bumper but now it just gives a quick beep and nothing more on boot. Just rebuilt the ps and voltages are good. It was a while ago and I do not remember which plug I swapped, but it was between 1j13, 1j14, 1j15 and 1j16. Any help is appreciated.

Are you sure you have the connectors correct now?

I wouldn't think swapping one of those would be enough to stop the game from booting.

#2560 4 months ago
Quoted from frisbez:

Are you sure you have the connectors correct now?
I wouldn't think swapping one of those would be enough to stop the game from booting.

Yes, they are correct now. Just not sure what I can check next or what the next step should be.

#2561 4 months ago

Presume you’ve gone through the steps on pinwiki.com? Here’s the Sys9/11 troubleshooting section: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#MPU_Boot_Error_Codes

#2562 4 months ago
Quoted from cjchand:

Presume you’ve gone through the steps on pinwiki.com? Here’s the Sys9/11 troubleshooting section: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#MPU_Boot_Error_Codes

Thanks! I also just got some info that I am going through to start testing a few things. I will report back when I figure a few things out. Also waiting to swap out c30 for the part.

#2563 4 months ago
Quoted from cjchand:

Presume you’ve gone through the steps on pinwiki.com? Here’s the Sys9/11 troubleshooting section: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#MPU_Boot_Error_Codes

I think I will actually start up a thread as I work through since this looks like something major. Then hopefully others can add insight.

#2564 4 months ago

Ok, I actually think I found something. I have this on a test bench setup and testing pin 40 of u15 for a reset signal, I get nothing. With a probe on at startup, it tries to boot. I get a 0 in the display unless i pull the probe off. Then it shows 8. I need to look into the reset circuit.

#2565 4 months ago

I thought replacing c30 was a precaution for the 12v. Reading now that it may be my problem. I will just wait until that comes in before going much further.

#2566 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Voltages are great, replace C-30 just because.

One step at a time.

#2567 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

One step at a time.

Yep. I ordered it because of that. I didn't realize why and thought it was for that 12v you had me test. Sorry, I tend to get ahead of myself.

#2568 4 months ago

I'm rebuilding my High Speed. The manual shows all three flippers to have the same coil FL 23/600-30/2600. On my game the upper right flipper has an SFL 19/400-30/750 coil instead. Looks original.

What flipper coils do you have on your game?

#2569 4 months ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

I'm rebuilding my High Speed. The manual shows all three flippers to have the same coil FL 23/600-30/2600. On my game the upper right flipper has an SFL 19/400-30/750 coil instead. Looks original.
What flipper coils do you have on your game?

Wow, someone sure wanted to get up the ramp. I'm surprised that the stock fuse doesn't burn. Oh yeah all 3 are stock on mine.

#2570 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

One step at a time.

#GRUMPY , Do you think I fried c30 with wrong connections or was that just a coincidence that it went at that time? Thanks again for the help!

#2571 4 months ago

Any quick ideas? My topper red light works, but if it's running too long the 1A fuse will eventually blow. I assumed the motor was old and gummed up (I could even hear that sucker grinding!) so I replaced EVERYTHING. The mount, the reflector, new bulb, new motor, everything. Initially thought it was working but it blew again yesterday while I was having trouble escaping. There's nothing else on that side of the relay's circuit. What should I look at next? Should I plan on replacing that big relay that powers the circuit?

-- M

#2572 4 months ago
Quoted from MikeVarney:

Any quick ideas? My topper red light works, but if it's running too long the 1A fuse will eventually blow. I assumed the motor was old and gummed up (I could even hear that sucker grinding!) so I replaced EVERYTHING. The mount, the reflector, new bulb, new motor, everything. Initially thought it was working but it blew again yesterday while I was having trouble escaping. There's nothing else on that side of the relay's circuit. What should I look at next? Should I plan on replacing that big relay that powers the circuit?
-- M

Mine would do that (my memory tells me it was 2A though). I finally decided to up the fuse amount a little. Never blew again.

#2573 4 months ago
Quoted from MikeVarney:

. There's nothing else on that side of the relay's circuit. What should I look at next? Should I plan on replacing that big relay that powers the circuit?

Are you using a slow blow fuse? The lamp bulb can be partly shorted and draw excessive current. The relay won't cause this. The new motor may be a larger wattage then the original one, if so then move up to a 2 amp fuse.

#2574 4 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

#GRUMPY , Do you think I fried c30 with wrong connections or was that just a coincidence that it went at that time? Thanks again for the help!

So far I would have to say coincidence.

#2575 4 months ago

I guess only way to fix(rebuild) these pop bumpers is to unsolder lamp socket? My housing is cracked in half. Box full of marcos is showing up tomorrow. Got the apron since merf was sold out!

#2576 4 months ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

I guess only way to fix(rebuild) these pop bumpers is to unsolder lamp socket? My housing is cracked in half. Box full of marcos is showing up tomorrow. Got the apron since merf was sold out!

Yeah, there is no connection. It's hard wired and not much room to work with.

#2577 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

So far I would have to say coincidence.

Part to replace c30 is due to come in today. Can I bench test to see if pops are still locked on or does it need to be in game?

#2578 4 months ago

Dang, replaced c30 and still down. Only now if i put the probe on pin 40 u15 on startup I now get nothing. If I start it and then probe pin 40 I get a 0 in the LED display and it goes to 8 when I remove it.

#2579 4 months ago

Those pop bumpers are a joy to rebuild!
Few switches are finicky, getting there.

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#2580 4 months ago

I have been enjoying my HS project for a while now. Since it is working, I have been playing it while I take care of other things. A little while ago the pop bumpers and slingshots died. The problem was intermittent for a few days, but now they are just not working at all. I know they are all controlled via the special solenoid section of the driver board. I did a quick check of the transistors with the playfield connectors off and the transistors appear to be OK. My Pinside and Google search is leaning towards the 7402 IC at U50. I don't want to just replace the part and see if that works. Is there a way I can verify the issue? Using the DMM in diode mode (with the parts connected to the board, but the playfield connectors removed) All of the driver transistors give me 0.6 0.0 and 0.7 from left to right with the black lead on the transistor tab and the read lead going left to right. I also have a logic probe and all the transistor leads have the same reading. Since all the bumpers and both slingshots are out, I would not expect a single transitor failure to be the cause.

I should also mention that the coils fire in coild test, but the switches to no register in switch levels.

Can any one suggest a systematic method of testing for the fault? Special solenoid failures seem to be common based on my search, but I am not finding a good troubleshooting guide.

Thanks!

#2581 4 months ago
Quoted from WonderMellon:

I have been enjoying my HS project for a while now. Since it is working, I have been playing it while I take care of other things. A little while ago the pop bumpers and slingshots died. The problem was intermittent for a few days, but now they are just not working at all. I know they are all controlled via the special solenoid section of the driver board. I did a quick check of the transistors with the playfield connectors off and the transistors appear to be OK. My Pinside and Google search is leaning towards the 7402 IC at U50. I don't want to just replace the part and see if that works. Is there a way I can verify the issue? Using the DMM in diode mode (with the parts connected to the board, but the playfield connectors removed) All of the driver transistors give me 0.6 0.0 and 0.7 from left to right with the black lead on the transistor tab and the read lead going left to right. I also have a logic probe and all the transistor leads have the same reading. Since all the bumpers and both slingshots are out, I would not expect a single transitor failure to be the cause.
I should also mention that the coils fire in coild test, but the switches to no register in switch levels.
Can any one suggest a systematic method of testing for the fault? Special solenoid failures seem to be common based on my search, but I am not finding a good troubleshooting guide.
Thanks!

The ground wire for the special solenoid switches is coming loose or the header pin for the ground wire is cracked. Remove the power supply and check the header pins on the upper connector. I don't have a manual handy so I can't give you a connector id number.

#2582 4 months ago

Thanks Grumpy. Here is the power supply layout. I see Solenoid ground is the bottom part of 3J4, all black wires. It is in the lower left. Is this what you mean? Does this ground apply to all solenoids, including special solenoids?

HS Power Board (resized).png
#2583 4 months ago
Quoted from WonderMellon:

Does this ground apply to all solenoids, including special solenoids?

No this wire only applies to the SS switches. This is not the coil ground. Coil ground comes from the 3J4 and goes to the CPU board.

The manual shows that there is no wire here, but its wrong. There is a white wire here, which is connected to ground on the power supply. This white wire goes to the play field special solenoid activation switches. It is daisy chained from one switch to the next switch. Since all 6 SS are not working I would expect that the header pin is cracked on the power supply 3J6 pin 14. Or the white wire is not making contact when it goes thru the large connector in the cabinet.

ps (resized).png
#2584 4 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Can I bench test to see if pops are still locked on or does it need to be in game?

Yes you can bench test if you get a computer power supply and use the 5, 12 and ground. Make a connector for 1J-17 for easy hook up and no miss connections. Once powered you can test the resistance of the TIPs from the emitter to the collector. A low resistance reading will indicate a TIP which is turned on. Check the base of the predriver and the driver to see if they are high or low. This will point you to which direction you go next.

Quoted from Tomass:

Dang, replaced c30 and still down. Only now if i put the probe on pin 40 u15 on startup I now get nothing.

You need to look over the reset circuit.

#2585 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

No this wire only applies to the SS switches. This is not the coil ground. Coil ground comes from the 3J4 and goes to the CPU board.
The manual shows that there is no wire here, but its wrong. There is a white wire here, which is connected to ground on the power supply. This white wire goes to the play field special solenoid activation switches. It is daisy chained from one switch to the next switch. Since all 6 SS are not working I would expect that the header pin is cracked on the power supply 3J6 pin 14. Or the white wire is not making contact when it goes thru the large connector in the cabinet.[quoted image]

Grumpy,
Thanks! That was it. The white wire and the one next to it had obvious cold solder joints. A quick reflow and things are back to working!!!!

#2586 4 months ago
Quoted from WonderMellon:

The white wire and the one next to it had obvious cold solder joints. A quick reflow and things are back to working!!!!

PLAYBALL!!

#2587 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Yes you can bench test if you get a computer power supply and use the 5, 12 and ground. Make a connector for 1J-17 for easy hook up and no miss connections. Once powered you can test the resistance of the TIPs from the emitter to the collector. A low resistance reading will indicate a TIP which is turned on. Check the base of the predriver and the driver to see if they are high or low. This will point you to which direction you go next.

You need to look over the reset circuit.

Ok, I have a test setup already. Wasn't sure about testing the spec sol.
I see the reset all over the schematics but I am lost as far as under standing it yet. I will look through the repair guides to see how to check it.

#2588 4 months ago

It seems I have an issue in power on reset if I am reading correctly. If I ground u15 pin 40 for a sec on powerup, it boots.

#2589 4 months ago

Getting a questionable reading from q38. Think I will just swap it and see.

#2590 4 months ago

Aaaaaaand......no 2n4401 's. Looks like I can use a 2n3904 though.

#2591 4 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

If I ground u15 pin 40 for a sec on powerup, it boots.

The 2 CPU chips and all the PIA chips have a reset pin. The reset circuit makes a low pulse that needs to last long enough for the 5 volt signal from the power supply to stabilize. Then the signal goes high and the CPU chips start running the program.

#2592 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

The 2 CPU chips and all the PIA chips have a reset pin. The reset circuit makes a low pulse that needs to last long enough for the 5 volt signal from the power supply to stabilize. Then the signal goes high and the CPU chips start running the program.

I am not getting a low or high on that pin 40 of u15. Even if I ground it to boot up, no low or high.

#2593 4 months ago
Quoted from Hammerhead:

upper right flipper has an SFL 19/400-30/750 coil instead. Looks original.

That is the older +28 volt flipper coil that is used on games that did not have the +50volt
supply voltage... Firepower, Black Knight, etc,etc,etc.

#2594 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Are you using a slow blow fuse? The lamp bulb can be partly shorted and draw excessive current. The relay won't cause this. The new motor may be a larger wattage then the original one, if so then move up to a 2 amp fuse.

Just a followup regarding my topper red light continually blowing its fuse after "brief" use. I started using a 1.5A slow blow instead of the 1A slow blow (I used a 1A originally because there's a sticker in my cabinet saying so). I haven't had the fuse blow in the last week, and I've been enjoying my now fully functional machine!

Thanks for the confirmation that a larger fuse was OK to use.

-- M

#2595 4 months ago
Quoted from Tomass:

I am not getting a low or high on that pin 40 of u15. Even if I ground it to boot up, no low or high.

When using a logic probe there is 3 states, high, low and in between. When you ground the reset line (pin 40) to boot, this the same as a low pulse. Since you are not seeing any change you need to check the transistors in the reset circuit.

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#2596 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

When using a logic probe there is 3 states, high, low and in between. When you ground the reset line (pin 40) to boot, this the same as a low pulse. Since you are not seeing any change you need to check the transistors in the reset circuit.[quoted image]

I swapped q38 with no results. The other 2 seemed to test good. I will just swap them and see. On c30, I get a low reading on one side but nothing on the other. Not sure if that means anything. Also I have 2n3904's instead of 2n4401's.

#2597 4 months ago

GRUMPY I actually just noticed this. Did one of these caps leak? Also I swapped out q34 q36 and q38 but still not booting.

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#2598 4 months ago

I think more than one has leaked.

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#2599 4 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I think more than one has leaked.[quoted image]

I pulled all 3 and the small caps that look rough around those components. Do you think that IC is ok?

#2600 4 months ago

Cleaned it up some. Is cap leakage like battery leakage? Meaning will it spread? Just wondering if I need to sand and neutralize the area.

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