Greetings, I have a Gottlieb HH System 80. After doing a bunch of reading there seems to be some recommended modifications and/or upgrades that should be done to this machine. As far as I can tell few if any have been made. BTW the battery had been previously removed and the board mitigated from alkaline corrosion.

Specifically referencing the PinWiki for System 80: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Problems_and_Solutions

It suggests making ground updates, replacing filtering capacitor, rebuilding the power supply board, etc.

Now I come from the line of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". So my question would be how needed or how strongly recommended should these modifications/upgrades be? For example if there is a modification that is quick easy and could save the entire machine from failure that seems like a valid reason to undertake the upgrade. Modifying or replacing something because it might cause a small failure down the road would not seem like a worthwhile endeavor.

Suggestions Appreciated!
Thanks!

Thanks for the reply. I am not a electronics pro but am capable enough. I am attempting to analyze risk/reward. I am fairly sure the risk of replacing the filter capacitor is minimal and the reward is worth the risk. I am uncertain about other upgrades/modifications. For example it sounds like the ground updates is a relatively easy undertaking with the reward of reliable grounding but I am not completely familiar with the process.

If the risk of an upgrade/modification is not worth the reward I would like to get opinions of such. Basically which modifications/upgrades have a low risk/high reward? I want to avoid high risk/low reward upgrades unless absolutely necessary.

Thanks!

Are there any other recommended modifications not mentioned in the wiki I would want to perform? I am replacing the missing battery with a super cap after overcoating the exposed traces as per my other post you replied on. The Zep seemed to work great. Super odd putting toilet bowl cleaner on a PCB.. LOL.

I do have some other very minor (minor to me) issues that I will make other post about to keep threads from getting muddied.

Thanks for your input.

Bought a 4800 50v and a 6800 50v alum cap to replace the two original filter caps from Digikey. Going to perform the ground mods. I do have the occasional thunk but I am not comfortable performing the mod based on the limited documentation I have found. Clipping the pins on the ICs makes me very nervous. Might just buy a new driver board on Pinballlife.com vs jacking with the factory driver board.

Thanks!

Completed the gound mods on each board, back to the ground plate in the cabinet.

Replaced the two caps with like for like on the uF except the 25v went up to a 50v.

Works the same.

So here are my remaining issues.

I bought a super cap from Amazon for the 5105. Went to install it. According to documentation the arrow points to the negative. Soldered it on to the MPU. Before putting it back in I decided to double check to make sure the polarity was correct. Set the MM to Ohms, red to + black to -..... nothing. Switched it started climbing.... tested voltage red to + black to -... got a negative voltage reading. Removed it and not sure if it's me or the cap.

amazon.com link »

Many of the lamps and in particular the 24v 313s dim ever so slightly when the flippers are engaged, probably unnoticeable to just about everyone.... but me. Correct me if I am wrong but neither one of those filter caps I just replaced would have anything to do with that correct? Another person who played it a couple of days ago mentioned the dimming when the old caps were still present but I had not noticed it until I replaced the caps. If it's not the caps what could it be? If it is the caps would a higher capacitance help? My understanding it's best to keep the capacitance as close to spec as possible but I am certainly no expert.

Lastly when I first turn it on there is a slight audible hum on one or both of the speakers that goes away after play 30 seconds. Anything to be concerned about or just ignore it?

Other than these issues she runs like a champ. I am considering doing the mod to the 313s to make them 44s but I am searching for pics and unable to find them.

Also I find the background music annoying and was hoping there was a way to turn the background music down whilst keeping the play sounds higher. I noticed the two potentiometers on the sound board and figured one was for play sounds and the other for background..... nope. R15 controls both play and background sounds. I am aware of the main volume potentiometer in the cabinet but was hoping R16 was for background. It must be for speech which HH does not have. I just flipped the dip to turn the background music off. Anyone know of a way to accomplish this?

Thanks!

Oh yeah please ignore my crappy soldering. LOL

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Any thoughts on the super cap issue?

That's exactly what I thought but I am confused why I am getting a negative voltage reading from the positive side and an increasing Ohms reading from the negative side

So I installed it and now the game does not reliably boot up with it on or off the board

Sometimes when I turn it on it will just hum and display a "t" in the credit spot. I unsoldered the cap as that was the only change I made and the problem persists..... but hey at least when it does boot up I have my credits and high scores saved.

I re-reinstalled the cap. Wondering if the cap is a red herring.

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So I think I just bricked my baby. In my quest to troubleshoot the issue I removed the PROM thinking a bad connection and I installed it incorrectly and turned it on. It just started blinking all the lights. After realizing my mistake I put the PROM back in correctly but I think it's too late. It still just blinks all the lights when I turn it back on

Just placed an order for brand new Rottendog MPU, Driver, and Power boards. All three probably could use replacing anyway. The driver board had a couple of really bad burn spots. The MPU has corrosion damage and now a bad PROM...

I will take this as a learning experience... a very costly one

I was considering replacing the boards with new ones anyway then rehabbing the old ones as backups. I saw where you can flash a new EPROM but between the cost of the flash machine and rehab costs, time, etc I figured it would be best to go new. In the future I will rehab the old MPU with a flashed eprom.

Thanks

Looks like I can get a EPROM burner on Amazon for about 100 bucks. Can get used 2716 ICs for about 5 bucks. And there is a French site that has the ROMs. Is this the way to go?

I am running under the assumption that the original EPROM I messed up is complete toast meaning I cannot reprogram it correct?

Thanks!

I have abated the alkaline with Zep. Everything was working great until I pulled the board to install that super cap and then everything went sideways. Not saying the supercap cause the issue but I probably cracked a trace when I removed the board or something. I have replaced the cabinet Caps, and did the ground mods. The only two issues I had remaining was L19 not functioning and no battery for the memory and now today I have a non working game.

I have already purchased a new Rottendog MPU, Driver, and PS. My plan is to rehab all the old boards and keep them as backups. If i cant get them to work right I will have someone else rehab them but I think I can manage it... assuming I take care to plug things in the proper direction

BTW the Pinball community has been the most helpful and patient group I have been a part of. Fantastic people that don't treat newbs like morons but are very helpful and nice.

Could you elaborate on why Pacal or Ni-Wumpf is better please?

The pascal is the only other option I can find in stock. But it sounds like I would still need to use the original PS?

After reading a bunch of threads I am convinced. I placed an order for the Pascal and will return the rottens when i get them... thanks

Knxwledge
I have not repinned the connectors but have seriously thought about it. I have examined most of the edge connectors and they all look pretty decent and I was not having any connection issues before I bricked it. What do you think about deoxit for a cleaning and protection?

It seems great plains is no longer a viable place to get cheap connector pins at this time. Macro is about 2.5x the price. Any other good place to get the pins. Also what is the best way to remove the previous pin as I would be reusing the housing? I have seen there is a tool but that tool seems unreasonable expensive.

Also the A12P4 3x5 molex was smashed and partial broken when I got it. I straightened the pins back out and connected it and all seems fine but that is the one I would repin. I have been unable to locate that specific connector. I assume any 3x5 molex that accept the AWG size would suffice such as this? I really only need to repin the male 3x5 connector. The female is fine.

amazon.com link »

BTW I bought a GQ-4X V4 to burn a new EPROM. Going to try to reburn the original, if that doesnt work I had already placed an order for 4 used ones and will burn one of them.

Thanks y'all!

Watched the video, very nice detail.

Would you think the area circled in red would be all I would need to detach and get new? Can I abate the ICs or is it best to get new?

So unsolder, remove as much excess solder as possible, sand area with 150 then 400, rinse with water and isopropyl, solder on new parts, overcoat traces, maybe reflow some pins? That about do it?

Thanks!

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After studying the reset generator it does indeed seem to be the easier and better way to go since I am removing most of those parts anyway. A few jumpers and a reset generator and whalla!

The DS1811-10 reset generator is obsolete as it seems. Would the DS1811-10+T&R be fine. DigiKey says its a direct sub.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/analog-devices-inc-maxim-integrated/DS1811-10-T-R/957029

I was able to get all the parts to rebuild it online. I also bought parts to rebuild the PS and spare transistors for the Driver board just in case.
I am going to give the good ole college try. If I fail I will send it for you to repair since you have been very helpful.

Thanks!

Muhahahha! She lives again!!!

I UV erased the original EPROM for 30 minutes, was able to read and verify all sectors were FF but it wont let me write it. I wrote the ROM to another 2716 I had and it worked fine. Wondering what the manufacturer of the original is and if that matters. Perhaps I cooked the original 2716

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I was reading the Maxim DS1233 is a suitable alternative to the MCP130-460. Can someone confirm this? The spec sheet seems to match very closely to the 130.
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/analog-devices-inc-maxim-integrated/DS1233D-10-T-R/956854

Thanks!