(Topic ID: 161795)

Hey Stern! Are you serious?

By mayuh

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by newpinbin
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#4773 7 years ago
Quoted from Cdonnerusmc:

I did not count the number of total inserts that have ghosted, I'll check and get back to you. And I actually had portland pinball repair unbox it and intall the playfield protector etc.. so i actually never saw it till Friday night at the expo. Normally I would have picked it up myself but I just had major knee surgery so I'm not getting around well right now.

That Super Jackpot insert looks like it will chip/crack for sure. Sorry to hear that not even the playfield protector was able to prevent this from developing so fast.

#4777 7 years ago
Quoted from Cdonnerusmc:

The playfield protector definitely has done its job though! I did a very close inspection of the playfield this Morning and did not find a single dimple im the playfield

I agree, I'm a big fan of the makrolon playfield protectors from Germany. I installed one on my MMR. Initially when I heard the dimpling story, I found it hard to believe. A pinball cannot dimple the playfield with the protector installed, the makrolon is too hard and distributes the pressure from the impacts. That is why it is surprising even with the pressure distribution of the protector, the inserts look like that.

#4784 7 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It isn't surprising at all, and a makrolon protector will have close to no effect on preventing inserts rising or sinking. Once they've dropped or risen so far that chipping becomes an issue, it will help stop them getting totally smashed.
The inserts are sinking or popping up because the wood is too young and too soft. It's moving and warping, hence all the inserts (particularly triangular ones) ghosting. Plus they probably don't allow adequate time for the adhesives to settle properly before the pfs are transported or machines undergo final assembly, and become subject to vibrations and loads.

I've never seen it confirmed that the issue is due to the playfield manufacturer using wood that is too young and soft. Some have also speculated that the clearcoat may not have had proper time to cure, etc.. Nothing I've seen has confirmed why the ghosting occurs, so this is just speculation on your part.

-3
#4786 7 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

No it is not speculation.
This is why inserts rise or fall. The 'ghosting' you see is due to an initial and small rise or drop of the plastic insert in its hole. This typically gets worse over time, until such time as there is a pronounced lip which will then get smashed to pieces by the ball.
The clearcoat itself is obviously less than ideal given that bits of it fall off and chip so quickly, but that's probably at least in part due to the wood moving as much as it does. But the clear is not the cause of 'ghosting' ... the whole insert falling into or being pushed out of the playfield is what you are seeing.

When no one, including Stern (officially) has revealed the exact cause of the issue with the new playfields, I'm going to take your "expert" opinion with a grain of salt. Just hoping the issue is finally resolved with the machines in production now as my Ghostbusters Premium ships Friday.

-11
#4788 7 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

I'm not sure if you're trolling or actually serious. Stern will never say what happened, at least not with any element of truth.
I'll explain very simply:
1) You are seeing 'ghosting'.
2) What is ghosting? The insert is either rising or falling in its insert (usually rising out of), applying pressure to the layer of clearcoat over it and turning it opaque in the process.
3) But why doesn't the whole insert go opaque? Because as the insert rises or falls, the clear in the middle of the insert and the clear on the playfield around the insert don't have additional pressure placed on them. Around the edge of the insert is where the force is exerted on the layer of clear.
4) So why does this happen? For the insert to rise up out of or drop down into the playfield, the playfield must be moving, warping and expanding and contracting. Usually if it happens at all on playfields it's due to many years of often hard use, the adhesives eventually breaking down that hold the insert in place, and storage in poor conditions. The triangular inserts having more issues or going first is due to 'pinching'.
5) So why is it happening so quickly? Most games are coming out of their boxes fine (a few exceptions). If the adhesive used to hold the insert in place was seriously faulty or not set, then more games would be coming straight out of the box with ghosted inserts, as the constant vibration during transport would make everything ghost. Most of the ghosting is occurring after the game has been set up, and within hours and sometimes minutes of play beginning. During the normal course of play, there will be larger forces placed on the playfield by the player moving the game, coils and mechs firing etc etc than during transport or assembly. This will cause some movement in the wood. Historically this has not been a major issue, as the wood is old enough and hard enough that it doesn't move and warp enough to cause immediate ghosting (and then serious playfield and insert damage) within the space of a minute percentage of the game's expected life. As the wood is very soft and very young, we see the recent problems with Stern.
6) So why are they doing this? One can only speculate, but softer younger wood is cheaper wood ...
Any questions?

I'm not sure why you feel the need for a dissertation here. Total waste of time and I'm not going to bother reading an essay on an enthusiast forum. You don't know the cause of the Stern playfield issues, but can speculate on possible causes, which young cheaper wood could be one, agreed. However, this isn't proof that this is what is causing the delamination of the clear coat from the plastic inserts, or the chipping of clear coat in the shooter lane for the Stern playfields in question. You're trying to present your opinion as fact, and I'm calling it out. This doesn't make me a troll.

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