(Topic ID: 161795)

Hey Stern! Are you serious?

By mayuh

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 6,561 posts
  • 600 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by newpinbin
  • Topic is favorited by 70 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

IMG_8151.JPG
IMG_1493.JPG
storage (resized).jpg
IMG_3408 (resized).JPG
IMG_3405 (resized).JPG
IMG_3404 (resized).JPG
IMG_3403 (resized).JPG
20170821_125227 (resized).jpg
Screenshot_20170821-154508 (resized).jpg
20170613_213020 (resized).jpg
20170613_213015 (resized).jpg
IMG_6111 (resized).JPG
IMAG8309 (resized).jpg
IMAG8310 (resized).jpg
IMAG8311 (resized).jpg
IMAG8312 (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider sadsack.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#124 7 years ago
Quoted from BrooklynDrug:

Thousands of dollars for crap, ain't cool. Ever.

I'd happily take that "crap" off his hands. Part of the reason prices are so high is the horrible high cost of warranty. I don't think the playfield is great by any means, but I think people would be surprised to learn the actual quality standards are so far from perfect. This playfield probably exceeded those standards. If you need perfect, there are guys who will sell you perfect... It's not going to be any volume manufacturer for sure.

-25
#265 7 years ago

Does ghosted inserts reduce the machine's revenue collection on location? I think you all misunderstand what a pinball machine's acceptable quality level is. They are NOT built to be collectible. Their function is to generate revenue in a commercial environment. When collectors buy more than ops/locations, things might change, but as it is now, operators are unwilling to wait or pay more for higher quality.

Should you have expectations of perfection because the game costs $8k? No. Many of you have mastered the art of the squeaky wheel, but that doesn't mean the generosity of dealers/stern is limitless. If you want a perfect machine, have your NIB shipped to HEP or some other specialist that can go through it. Just look how when you all are rewarded with a spare playfield or decals, you all horde them instead of installing them. IOW, the problem was more of an excuse to whine than a real problem. What I'm noticing is a bunch of European consumers whining for more of the commercial protection that has destroyed virtually all manufacturing of consumer goods under the protective wings of your nanny-state. Now you want to see those same protections destroy the pinball industry in the US because you are a collector buying commercial goods. Stern has to build with the parts they have because they are in business. If they were to shift their production to satisfy the limited minority that actually will find a cracked or ghosted insert, they would likely be out of business in a year. You see, you cannot focus your sales on customers that destroy your profitability on the back end.

Clearly some of you should stick to collecting something other than brand new, coin-operated amusement machines since you refuse to accept the quality level that the devices are manufactured to. Stern has clearly made a decision to reduce the cost by some amount that directly corresponds to the savings resulting by shipping playfields that are more imperfect than you might like. If you don't like it, buy open box or used machines that can be inspected before you write the check.

I think in this case, the cost of perfection is a risk to the entire business. But who cares if you are the one getting spare artwork that cost $150 or a $300 playfield to keep with your "investment". Congrats for your contribution to the pinball "community".. you do everything you can to suck machines out of the wild and into your gamerooms while at the same time selfishly attempting to destroy the manufacturers with compensation demands for your unreasonable quality standards.

Keep it up. Just think how valuable your collection will be when you run Stern and JJP out of business. Oh, that's right, they continue to operate despite you, not because of you.

images_(resized).jpegimages_(resized).jpeg

-4
#268 7 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Wow, that warranty is pathetic. You're telling me the ONLY things that are covered are certain electronics, and even that is only 9 months? And absolutely no playfield, cabinet, mechanism, ramp, habitrail, or playfield driver electronics coverage?

And buyers are lucky that there is that much coverage for goods designed to be used in commercial environments.

#271 7 years ago
Quoted from stoptap:

Stern wants to sell in Europe ? Then Stern has to abide by European laws. It really is that simple.
You can bleat on all you want about people having to accept poor quality goods but here in Europe that simply does not apply and the purchaser has the right to recompense.

Clearly Stern is abiding by European law or your unelected masters would have a history of "fining" them. Have you written Brussels or the Hague in your plight?

Just like over in the states, illegality is an acceptable norm as long as the "enforcers" are getting their cut.

#449 7 years ago

Didn't Riverboat Gambler have a composite playfield?

#580 7 years ago
Quoted from someoneelse:

Agreed if they all had ghosting. But they don't. Only a tool would pay the same price for a not so nice machine as they would for a one with ghosting....

Just like all those jackasses I see in brand new corvettes with orange peel. Don't worry. There are plenty of tools around to buy your machine at full price. Why do you think finding "the greater fool" means?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

-1
#632 7 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Absolutely nothing wrong with paying modern costs for a NIB. If they want to show some frustrations, they're allowed to. They've earned that right.

Then why do you admonish someone simply stating an opinion that's different than your's. I think the skin is a little too thin in these parts. In my limited time involved in pinball, I've come to learn that pinsiders (myself included) are a different kind of bird. This forum is like a flock of doves when everyone sings the same tune, but as soon as conflicting opinions arise, it's like crows and sparrows.

I attribute it to passion outweighing common sense. It's alright to buy NIB. It's alright to target used machines for acquisition. It's alright to be dissatisfied with current production quality levels. It's alright for manufacturers to be satisfied with quality levels that you are not. In the end we all make our own decisions and the market is affected appropriately by the sum of our own decisions. All the ranting for special treatment is what I find disturbing. I can imagine a subset of pinheads formulating a class and doing their best to seek compensation for quality problems. If the class is large enough and successful, stern would operate under bk protection for some time before another round of lawsuits put the final nail in their coffin. I don't think a single person on this board would be happy under these circumstances, the squeaky wheels could admire their $150 settlement checks while feeling sad they had to teach stern a lesson about quality.

The ghosting problem is disappointing, but so are a lot of other things in life. Anyone who has ever manufactured an item for retail sale has problems exactly like ghosting. If the quality standard is perfection, the manufacturer is out of business because the standard will price out the product. It's really that simple.

Is your wife's engagement ring diamond perfect? I doubt it.

-2
#637 7 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

Some here don't like car analogies but if a major car manufacturer built new cars that has clearcoat separating from the paint I'm sure there would be a major recall. I would like to see someone buy a brand new car with ghosting clearcoat and say it's just a car, just drive it and don't worry about it. That POV reminds me a child who doesn't wash his face because it will get dirty again. It's a defect, make believe it's not there if you're so inclined but I wouldn't buy a late model Stern game with ghosting on the used market unless it was cheap enough to pay for putting in a new playfield. Then you risk, what happens if the new playfield does it. If anything it should be a problem to owners just based on resale value, unless you find someone who just isn't aware of the issue. Sending someone a new blank playfield seems to me the equivalent of sending someone a gallon of paint because their new car's clearcoat is delaminating.

You must have slept through the decades of clearcoat adhesion problems for both GM and Ford. I don't recall any compensation for the cars I owned that faded/bubbled/peeled. They were all out of warranty.. just like your NIB playfield.

And, as I pointed out previously, you can go to the dealership today and find plenty of cars with orange peel. I don't see GM stripping and repainting any of the corvettes coming off the line with orange peel... and a lot of those are special ordered as well. I wonder how many special order cars are rejected because of paint issues.

-4
#641 7 years ago
Quoted from Elf-Six:

Wow, two months warranty!!! That is crazy...that would be two years in Denmark (and europe), and not up to the manufacturer.
Tell me, if you go and buy an XBOX, how long is the warranty?

Stern will stop selling in Europe if that warranty were enforced. Apparently your enforcement nannies still consider a pinball machine a commercial item and not a consumer item.

-21
#646 7 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Look, shipping new games with obvious defects is not going to cut it with the home buyers - period. They don't care about why the problems happen, that's Stern's problem to solve. You operator types can rant all day about how good it feels buy a new game that's half there out of the box and point to Stern's crappy warranty if you want. The standards have changed for home buyers, and if Stern wants to stay in business they'll need to take care of their customers and meet their expectations, or someone else will.

Stern will remain in business despite customers like you, not because of them. You obviously have never been involved in the production of a good. I bet your professional experience is government or some other bureaucratic/parasitic career like charity, insurance, finance or law.

#647 7 years ago
Quoted from mayuh:

The only poor guy here is the local distributor. He's liable AND has to deal with Stern. I wonder how much more pins he'll buy in the near future.... He's not going to sell much anymore...

Congratulations.. mission accomplished!

#653 7 years ago
Quoted from AlexSMendes:

I don't think so... his mission was to acquire a flawless NIB pin... unfortunately, he failed!

His time would have been spent equally well hunting unicorns. There is no such thing as a "flawless NIB pin". It all just comes down to your skill in finding defects.

This has been my point all along: Do you think you can go to a jewelry store and buy a flawless diamond? There's a lot less parts in a diamond than a pinball machine.

-10
#660 7 years ago
Quoted from mayuh:

..To be totally clear, I don't want to hurt my distributor...

And yet your actions do exactly that. It must be a cultural difference, but I can't understand what those on your side of the argument want done. Absolutely any corrective action comes at a cost that may or may not be affordable to stern or your distributer.

It is a service to the pinball community to point out the flaws so that they may be remedied. It is a disservice to the pinball community to expect personal compensation for machines that meet the current quality standards. What do you want? To destroy the manufacturer/dealer or to simply draw attention to the problem. It seems to me there are a lot of people who believe they can throw costs onto the supply line that are a serious risk to the product's future.

Imagine for a moment that it is impossible to make all PF's without ghosting or crazing. Would you prefer to accept some amount of it or would you prefer they stop being made all together?

Well.. this is our current reality and it appears you are choosing the latter.

-1
#663 7 years ago
Quoted from AlexSMendes:

Yes, just flawless (from any age) restored pins (as I'm understanding)...

I can go to a motorcycle dealer and buy a flawless new motorcycle. There's a lot more parts than a pinball machine (and sometimes may cost almost the same)!

I'm telling you that you cannot buy a flawless new motorcycle. You just don't know how to identify the flaws.

-8
#664 7 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

You seem to know about economics..so let Stern take the hit..it's all part of doing business. In a free market that has a demand for something the void will be filled by other players soon enough. Stern, if this is the best you can do then your best is simply not good enough.

Again, stern survives despite this mentality, not because of it. The European dealer makes the conscious decision to warranty Stern's products beyond what Stern does. That's his choice. If you Europeans want to run all your dealers out of business, have at it. You have a legal means to do so, but I don't think that will work out well in the long run for anyone.

#668 7 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Agreed. But let's say for instance the windshield on your brand new car had a crack in it when you picked it up from the dealership what would you do? I'm sure "Sadsack" would just shrug and say...ah no worries a flawless car doesn't exist I'll just live with it. No one in there right mind would do that.
Same thing applies to this playfield issue. Ghosting will eventually get worst and then will affect the integrity of the playing area. The clear will delaminate from the inserts (probably not the right term but you get what I mean) and then chip /crack. When I shell out $7K it's not to make money it's to play the damn game and keep it in tip top shape.
Sure you can argue that these machines are for commercial use but I don't see Stern having a problem to sell indirectly to the consumer.
You want to mess with your business model then alienate a targeted sector that contributed to more than 30% of your bottom line.
I'm still in on a GB Pro, unless I find a TF Pro. But that GB Pro purchase is going to include terms with the distributor specifically targeting this ghosting issue and it will be up to them not Stern to see if they want to gamble. If they want to dance they'll get my $7K if not I'll go shopping elsewhere.
When I buy something new I want it to be as flawless as possible within reason. Having this problem doesn't fall in the "within reason" category.

Your points are mostly reasonable, but your definition of "within reason" is not the current standard.

As far as the car analogy goes, I've bought a brand new pickup once that blew the rear end in 1200 miles. I've bought over a dozen cars that paint fell off when they were 4-6 years old (I used to buy and sell used police cruisers). One issue was covered under warranty the others were not. Chipping/crazing/ghosting of pinball playfields is not covered under warranty. The standard of "fitness for use" is the only implied warranty and the aforementioned problems do not affect fitness for use.

I'm not trying to be a dick to anyone here, but I am trying to put a little balance in the discussion in general. Torches and pitchforks are fine, but they rarely result in a change for the good.

#669 7 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

The numbers from the Pinside Map don't corroborate your statement:
GOT Pro- Home (102) Location (103)
GOT Pre/LE- Home (216) Location (51)
KISS Pro- Home (102) Location (132)
KISS Pre/LE- Home (149) Location (29)
TWD Pro- Home (210) Location (236)
TWD Pre/LE- Home (319) Location (39)
MET Pro- Home (507) Location (216)
MET Pre/LE- Home (507) Location (58)
AC/DC Pro- Home (167) Location (185)
AC/DC Pre/LE- Home (820) Location (123)
Total: Home (3099) Location (1172)
Not all machines manufactured will be listed on the map but this is a pretty good indicator that Stern needs to pay attention to home buyers who might care more about things like defective clear coat and decals than operators.

Sampling error leads to erroneous conclusions... Surprise, surprise.

#674 7 years ago
Quoted from mayuh:

Ok, sadsack. I personally destroy Stern, right? Come on...
See the topic.
Two pins in a row had severe ghosting issues, in the days this thread was and still is on fire (icon) the third pin was having ghosting issues (GB pro and LE). That's why I asked, if stern was serious - delivering low quality playfields (in my opinion)
That I want compensation is my right here in Europe. And any European company would at least send a new populated playfield, taking back the old one. Yes, maybe cultural differences, but that's the way the cookie crumbles here.
See, I'm in the CG and special visual effects industry since I'm 16 yo. I also do the 3D translites with pinball-dreams. And I wasn't satisfied with the quality. So I decided, ok, fuck it, I'm gonna make it awesome. And I was fully aware that I get flamed from Rick, Henrick and the whole community for a 4 months delay. I don't see a fast revenue, I'm a pinhead and I want to make things right.
I'm emotional not economical.
I'm pretty sure, it will be quite some fun to have a few beers with you and play some mean pinball but please stop and depict my as the slayer of pinball business. I'm a whiny pinhead, that just feels to deserve a great machine, where cost issues won't cause quality issues.
...and yeah it's 9k++ over here.

Replying to post #666... I'm not saying you are destroying the industry. I'm saying that this idea of "a perfect playfield or compensation" is not reasonable. You admit you are "emotional not economical" in your hobby business. That's an idea that is very destructive once you have a factory and staff expecting a steady flow of money.

I'm sure we would get along just fine in the real world. In fact, I think you are one of the more reasonable on this board. Again, I am simply pointing out the idea of perfect playfields is incongruent with the reality of clearcoating wood and plastic assemblies flawlessly. I've been an engineer in manufacturing in a previous life and I can tell you with absolute certainty there is no way to consistently produce perfection and the cost to pursue perfection rises exponentially.

-1
#676 7 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

...and we're telling you (and Stern), that the current standard is no longer sufficient for the new marketplace. They can either accept that and adapt, or deny it and we will all suffer for it.

I would guess that Stern has a much better handle on the new marketplace than any of their retail customers. It's the dealers that stern listens to, not pinside for this exact reason.

#698 7 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Just because you say it is "the current standard" doesn't make it so. I would hope this is an aberration that will be corrected.....

Obviously it is the current standard because that is what they are shipping. I didn't dream it up. I simply accept reality. Reality is what "makes it so".

Quoted from Fresh_Wax:

This would be a great opportunity for someone from stern to step in, and show that they care about individual consumers, and start to put out this giant tire fire.
And for the record, i have a "defective" Star Trek playfield that chipped clear within 50 plays of NIB. Stern and my distributor handled it, and I was satisfied with the customer service I received. Will I buy NIB again.. NEVER!

So both your distributor and Stern would have been better off telling you to go pound sand. I'm sure that will be a lesson learned shortly if not already.

#915 7 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

..Fact is, ghosting has not been a problem on new playfields since CV (17 years ago)

I'd like to know where you found this fact. I think the problem is and has been much more pervasive than anyone thinks.

#992 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Exactly, that's why Stern should tell these whiny little bitches to go F themselves
Of course in a PC kind of way, not how I would do it

Iceman must be back on the hard stuff. But I can't agree more after seeing these pictures.

BTW, I'm still in on that MG bet. The whereabouts of the prototypes are still unknown? I saw you asked about it a month or so ago and those who supposedly know didn't answer. Any rumors out there?

4 weeks later
-6
#1599 7 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Just cause you asked mine cost 12k and if I was told it might have Defects in the the clear, yes DEFECTS, I wouldn't have paid 12k. My expectation was that for 12k (that's $12,000) I would get me the same quality as my met prem, mustang prem or RCT all of which cost less then 12k and have no clear DEFECTS also known as ghosting. That was all i was expecting for 12k.

With just a few more guys like you, none of us will ever afford a pinball machine. If I spent 12 grand on a toy, I'd expect to be reamed in numerous ways. You are in the wrong market, you should be buying art or jewelry. Maybe you can send your machine out to HEP and spend another 10 grand to get what you really want... more bragging rights.

-11
#1714 7 years ago

Imagine you were an alien that was transported directly into a pre-school daycare. You might have an interesting impression of what humans are like. Pinside is a little like that daycare - a subset of buyers, generally not representative of the market as a whole.

Quoted from flashinstinct:I told my distributor I would buy a game if it came with a playfield replacement warranty.

If I was your distributor, I'd tell you to go pound sand. Or maybe I'd just agree and tell you to go pound sand if you tried to make a claim. Some of you guys should switch your hobby to jewelry or fine art.

-20
#1718 7 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

The distributor is in every right to tell me to pound sand. Just not sure how long he'll tell the same story if potential clients are leaving is pre order list in droves and he's sitting on $500k worth of product with nothing to show for. At least I wouldn't be caught with my "SadSack" in my hands with nothing but hope that Stern will do something.
I guess for some of you quality is not important. I know some people that are that type, it's all nice until it happens to them. Well I'm the kind that takes measures to protect my hard earned money and the potential value of things I purchase.

You should go buy a painting instead of a pinball machine.

-17
#1724 7 years ago
Quoted from golfingdad1:

No he shouldn't , Stern should produce a quality product , end of story.

Your name is not Gary Stern, end of story.

-3
#1737 7 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Man I work in gaming and we have to deal with rabid fanboys. The kids go crazy over their allegiance and the lunacy that ensues is mind blowing. Seeing it here is hard to believe, considering the demographic, SadSack did your kid log into your account? Or are you a teenage boy experiencing the hormone stupidity of puberty?

Is this you or me? I've worked in manufacturing for a small market in the past. I'm no stern fanboy.. That's just your way of discounting my argument rather han directly addressing my points.

-7
#1740 7 years ago

It's simply NOT a manufacturing defect. It's a result of using real wood in a product. This has been an occasional problem since the advent of clearcoating playfields. Maybe you guys could order non-CC PF's. If 2% of my customer's are dissatisfied with my best work, I would and have sent them packing.

-3
#1742 7 years ago

^^ Total BS. If satisfying 2% of your customers cost 24% of your profit to satisfy, what would you do?

-3
#1744 7 years ago

Thanks for your name-calling. My thinking has been corrected.

1 week later
#2250 7 years ago
Quoted from AstonEnthusiast:

Just unboxed our GBLE and have several immediate issues. Ghosting on the PKE inserts, slimer smashes into undesirable mechs on the play field and someone scratched the shit out of the play field prior to shipping. It's covered in scratches. Absolutely unacceptable and thanks KPG for the reassuring words. Sent info to distributor and Stern awaiting a reply on next steps to resolve.

Please post photos.

-3
#2412 7 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

..You've apparently never bought something new with defects and returned it to the store, since you seem to believe that it's ok for manufacturers to release a sub par product, sell it at full price and leave the customer stranded. Regardless if it was made for commercial purposes or not. I don't see Stern or Distributors turning "home market" customers away. So they'll have to deal with the "bad product" they produce.
Then can choose not...but must be prepared for financial loses in the long run. I don't see any of the affected owners that have purchased NIB to buy a NIB any time soon if Stern keeps going down this path.

What is the return policy on a NIB pinball? Is there a restocking fee? If your machine is not up to your standards because your standards are higher than a typical customer for the product, return it. Take your lick, you are the fussy one. What's a 15% restocking fee among friends?

I just want to point out that this board is not representative of typical machine buyers. I'm not trying to excuse stern, but some of the "ghosting" complaint photos in this thread are completely ridiculous. I'm especially disturbed when seeing complaints of dimpling by some of the worst complainers. Many of you guys are just out of your element.

And I completely agree that those with concern should sit out buying NIB sterns and cancel their orders. There are other options and the market is highly efficient in correcting itself when cashflows are diverted. If the home market is that influential, mitigation will occur.

In the meantime, take the lick and return those games to whomever you wrote the check. I wouldn't mind picking one up on clearance. Oh, that's right, pinball machines don't go on clearance anymore, do they? I don't think I've seen a single complainant offer their machine up for sale at a discount yet. Has a single one of you tried to return your machine. I know I'd be buying with American Express if I was in the market. I believe they provide an absolute satisfaction guarantee on EVERYTHING you purchase with that card. Or do they have a different standards between commercial and consumer goods?

#2425 7 years ago
Quoted from visi0n:

I wish I could up vote this more than once.

"Arrogance and failure to accept responsibility" is your perception of the default position that must be taken within the litigious society we live. Would you be happy for stern to admit responsibility and be driven into bankruptcy? Yes it is a problem. Yes it sucks to get something brand new that doesn't live up to your expectations. What has 1200 complaining comments achieved? Nothing if you guys keep buying. I just don't know what will satisfy any of you other than complete playfield replacements from the factory. A shiny NOS unpopulated playfield does absolutely nothing to address the problem.

What addresses the problem is returning the "defective" machines and canceling orders not yet delivered.

#2725 7 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

This is exactly why Stern have to be transparent, acknowledge the situation and reassure customers/potential customers they will address the situation. All this silence is deafening. Dealing with selected customers on a case by case basis does nothing to re-assure the people that haven't yet received their game that Stern will fix whatever issues they have with the PF.
I dont buy the "legal" argument either.
Option 1: They publicly admit there's an issue and they are looking at fixing it. Potential cost? They have to fix all the faulty games. They will have to do that eventually regardless - public announcement or not. In return they buy a huge amount of goodwill and dont lose sales.
Option 2: They dont admit anything, and deal with each fault on a case by case basis "behind closed doors". Potential cost? They still have to fix all the faulty games. If they dont, they lose a lot of current and future customers who cancel orders because no one is sure if Stern will support their product. They lose a huge amount of good will. They establish and/or reinforce a reputation for building inferior products. They send a message that Stern believe sub-standard quality is good enough.
And competitors who are currently only small companies and not really a threat, sell a lot more games and grow to become serious competitors.

False dichotomy based on the premise that "they still have to fix all the faulty games" is not true. I'm not sticking up for stern in this, but your argument is fallacious.

#2813 7 years ago

How can you own anything when your royals own you? Don't they own you AND everything you possess?

#3077 7 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

He definitely has an awesome car, but I have a Spitzer dragster sitting in my garage that will smoke his so I wasn't really as impressed as he thought I would be. I know a little bit about hot cars myself, it was a nice try though.
Oh ya, and my garage has AC in it also!

Now it's time to pull out your ruler.

-1
#3222 7 years ago
Quoted from tacshose:

Hey Jerry,
Still waiting to confirm you'll ship a pro to my door for $5,000 with 1 year warranty.
Paying retail Stern MSRP or higher in pinball is dumb, glad you found some suckers to pay it, good for you. In STL we have Amini's the pricing is insane as I am sure your's is.

I don't know why you would expect dealers who wholesale to the public to give you reasonable service. If you can't afford to pay retail, cut your bichin' when your wholesaler tells you to pound sand. You are attacking the one dealer in this topic that is actually trying to help his customers with more than lip service.

#3258 7 years ago

I sure am glad you are all reassured by kpg's testament. I don't know kpg, but it seems strange that he is the only one who got a response.. and from Gary no less. He must be pretty influential on the answering machine. What did he do different than the other guys who've been nagging Stern?

-8
#3648 7 years ago

Some of you guys will never learn. 5 grand deposits to your distributor because he is a "great guy". I'm not talking about any one in particular, but what makes you think some of these distributors aren't either "on the verge of closing shop", "having an unfortunate accident - throwing their business into upheaval" or simply going to disappear. This debacle has demonstrated the classic circle jerk of finger pointing. Why are you all so afraid to bring or send your game back to the distributor for a return? I just have trouble understanding how you all are caught in the middle of a shitty situation and simply don't extricate yourself at a cost if the problem is so bothersome. Is it that your desire for the game outweighs your disappointment in receiving junk? Take your lick and return the POS. If it cost a couple grand, so what?

While there are a few people who are actually working toward a solution, it seems most of you are quite satisfied with your bendover as long as you have a public forum to whine upon. If you all just returned your machines, you'd be a lot better off than owning some high-dollar toy that reminds you of getting screwed every time you look at it. I like Ice's attitude on the thing. He's going to play the shit out of it and if the playfield decay becomes intolerable, he'll deal with it then - probably by dumping the POS at a loss. None of this "I see three inserts have minor ghosting that can only be seen when the game is turned of so I'm going to wring my hands until the game heals or it's too late to do anything about it."

Face the simple truths. You will not "make" Stern or your distributor do ANYTHING. Sometimes deals go south. Stern is not going to jeopardize the future of their business any more than they have already by continuing to ship problem machines. If they start shipping out 500 new populated playfields in a recall-like situation, they might as well turn out the lights. Many businesses have been killed by less. This situation is likely a real threat to their survival.

Your option 2 is a classic case of throwing good money behind bad. And secondly, how much do distributors make on an 8 grand game? Most are price-whoring because they simply see their role as gatekeeper to keep you off Stern's back. Did you ask the return policy when you wrote your check?

It goes like this: "Hey, Bob, I'm pumped on ordering this $7500 toy for my basement, but what happens if I end up with a lemon? You know, I'm used to having the best of everything and if I see any flaws or imperfections, I'm expecting you to make it right."

Please forgive my insensitivity as I can't understand any of this nonsense. Shit has gone wrong and I'm sorry to say EVERYONE is going to pay. It's not like you can go bully the girl behind the customer service counter at walmart. Unlike a simple refund of your money at walmrt, this problem doesn't have a cost effective solution from the manufacturers or distributors side. Stern and your distributors are handling this debacle in the most cost-effective way for them. If you don't like it, pay the toll and return or dump the POS.

Quoted from MikeS:

You guys are making way too much out of this than it's worth. Even if they charge your card it's still totally worth it. As long as you return your playfield right away it will be credited back to your account before any interest accrues.
Option 1: Stern Sends you a box and you send in your old playfield. You wait weeks to months for them to swap all the used components of your bad playfield onto a brand new playfield and ship it back to you. Your credit card is never charged.
Option 2: Stern sends out a brand new populated playfield and the Distributor charges your card $5000. You receive the new playfield and install it in your game and promptly ship your old playfield back. The distributor credits your card the $5000.
Option 2 is far and away the best way to go. It's likely to be a better build if you get a fresh/new playfield with all new parts vs. one where they depopulate your game and move the old parts over. Plus you don't have any downtime or waiting. Neither option ends up costing you a cent.

-1
#3650 7 years ago

If I was stern, I'd offer $1000 or $1500 checks for original purchasers to forgo all future warranty claims on a case by case basis. That might alleviate the sting for some of you since that amount seems too much to lose for those of you who won' return your game.

#3651 7 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

And not one emoticon!
I cant figure out if you are happy or mad

I'm neither. I'm trying to be logical like Spock. I don't get emotional about other people's money.

1 week later
-1
#4025 7 years ago
Quoted from MinusWorlds:

Yeah seriously, the ambiguity in this thread is ridiculous.
Doucher - "Oh Gary called me and now I have a boner"
Pinside - "What did he say??"
Doucher - "He was coy. Did I mention my boner?"

This happens all the time on pinside. Dudes either make crap up or pretend they've got the "secret knowledge" in some kind of brinksmanship. It's painfully obvious that the guys who do this most are in denial of the reality around them. Think back to the early days of the failed boutiques and how many people missed their CC chargeback opportunities because of this same type of nonsense.

Anyone who pulls the secret knowledge crap is full of it.

#4026 7 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Well the person who told me is Canada's largest distributor so for me as long as I have it in writing that's all that matters.

So you have it in writing? ... More of the "secret knowledge".

#4045 7 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

No way did the distributor eat the multi thousand cost of a pin. Not a chance.

No. He sold it at a discount which probably means he ate a $1000-$1500 max. An operator would eat up that discount in a heartbeat. If anyone wants to sell their new GB pro with CC issues to me for $3500, I'd be all over it.

#4072 7 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

I'm basing my assumption on the many times Stern (and their distributor network) has stepped up in the past, and is currently doing so for their customers.
Could you find me some examples of Stern screwing their distributors? You must have many examples to come to that conclusion.

I find it comical that you are demanding proof from those that are questioning your obvious speculation. What proof do you have in this particular situation or are we all to take your speculation as gospel?

1 week later
#4277 7 years ago

I carefully inspected 3 GB's this week on location PHOF, Big Apple Arcade and Game Works in Las Vegas. All were in better condition than some of the machines posted in this thread. There may have been a little ghosting, but honestly I didn't see any and I was looking for it.

2 weeks later
#4365 7 years ago

Could it be the inserts causing the problem and not the CC? Perhaps printing on the inserts is outgassing after a time.

4 weeks later
#4839 7 years ago

I just saw a FB post where Lyman and George were atuographing BM66 playfields "before hardcoating". Maybe this is the problem: Hardcoating separating from clearcoat..
https://www.facebook.com/sternpinball/photos/a.386178974243.167508.136972659243/10154642446374244/?type=3

2 months later
#5198 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Not saying I disagree with you....I'm just guessing at their point of view. Of course they could be in Las Vegas, drunk as hell with a hooker on each arm, laughing at all of us suckers that they can't believe "bought that shit".....lol

Last time I was at the PHOF on Friday night during CES, Gary and Terry(?) came in. I wouldn't be surprised if Gary and Tim Arnold are yakking it up this very second.

1 month later
#5659 7 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Yup! My opinion doesn't make me a "hater", though. That's a very simplistic term that marginalizes the validity of experiences & reason that led to an opinion.

I find that the broad brush of a pejorative like "hater" is simply how a child crawls back into the womb when they begin to lose an argument.

In all case where I have been labeled a hater, I have not even cared enough to dislike, much less hate.

1 month later
#5934 7 years ago
Quoted from tacshose:

.. Again, if anyone wants a good deal on a 2016 MET PRO with a couple hundred plays, clear chipping, and continuous drop target problems let me know I would love to just take the hit and sell this POS

How low can you go? I might be able to help you out.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 11.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
Toys/Add-ons

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider sadsack.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious?tu=sadsack and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.