Quoted from Banker:I am sure stern will recup it's cost from the play field manufacturer .
Stern *IS* the PF manufacturer right?
That's why this problem started recently no?
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Quoted from Banker:I am sure stern will recup it's cost from the play field manufacturer .
Stern *IS* the PF manufacturer right?
That's why this problem started recently no?
Quoted from iceman44:I'm stubbornly stupid and the eternal optimist?
I really should bail and wait it out for the premium in a year or so. See if Dwight gets the code up to Lyman par.
Believe me, after seeing these recent play fields its on my mind.
I think you're making a mistake
Hopefully I'm wrong but the odds certainty seem stacked against you.
Don't let the folks with a good Pro PF skew the %
The LE & Pro do not share the same PF's
Quoted from txstargazer3:I dropped out of my GB LE after assessing the risk and my personal tolerance for it. That's what it comes down to - decide how much risk you are comfortable with. There is no wrong answer. Do whatever will further your enjoyment of pinball.
Because I enjoyed Full Throttle so much at TPF, I ordered a FT LE instead. It works for me. I am not urging anyone to do what I did. Just do what works for you.
Risk
Tolerance
You're a F'n pinball underwriter
Quoted from iceman44:Gary sent me an email earlier and said this recent batch is perfect and ready to go.
Pfft. Dude you got Jedi mind tricked lol. He sent that "dimple" email too calling flaws "character". Reminds me of software people who can't fix their shit & call the bugs "features".
But I'm Mulder. I trust no one.
Best wishes to you Ice
Quoted from iceman44:You know I'm kidding about the email right?
Even though this mystery might be a case for Agent Mulder and the X Files, it's all gonna work itself out at the end of the day.
Ah damn. Ya got me. I thought you were serious about the email. Not sure why. Maybe because JJP would call or email folks to save sales IIRC.
I'm rooting for you man. But I'm also preparing my " F'n told you so" speech lol.
Quoted from zene10:SMVE purchased mid April 2016. Manufacture date March 11, 2016. Almost every single insert in ghosting. About 500 plays. First NIB.
Wow, sorry to see that.
I've got NIB money burning a hole in my pocket right now but there's no way I'm buying anything made 2016.
I think we all have love for Stern
We all likely feel sympathy for them too
But when they don't reply w/a comforting resolution it sucks.
Has anyone's distro said Stern will make it right?
Quoted from Banker:Cointaker and Stern have always taken care of any issues for me. That's why I own 34 of their pins.
Same here.
Thats why I own 3-4 of their pins
Yeah I may wait a year..
Too many people buy a game, put dolls on it & ask NIB pricing + shipping. So a HUO is unlikely to be my choice any more.
Not kidding I was so close to buying 2 NIB this month. I can't decide between MET & TWD. Thats how I do it. Buy nothing for a few years & then buy 2-3 the same day lol. Last time I bought TSPP, FGY & LOTR all in the same week all HUO. The wife was PISSED but she didn't leave me so I'm gonna do it again lol
Quoted from Pickle:Man....this is tough. It sucks Stern is pretty silent on this but I am certain they are looking into it as it has to be hurting sales. I don't think there is any need to panic. Once Stern figures it out I am sure it will be corrected and they will make it right. I can't see them not addressing this.
I sent en email to Stern asking what happens if I buy a ghosted game
Their reply determines my action
If I was Stern I'd shit right now
Vid is like a Pinside shaman
Aaaaand they shipped him a defective game
It's just a matter of time before the "How to not get fucked in pinball" tutorial is updated with "rule #99 don't buy a Stern"
To those who say we should all expect shoddy games because we're unworthy home owners...
Please let Stern know on all of your future orders the shit playfields are fine for your game. Let Stern know they should skip the whole QC process on your games too. No big deal right? These are for ops after all & they will plug in a game even if it's missing the slingshot coil so why would the homeowner expect one?
I suspect many of us will sit on the sidelines with money awaiting a resolution.
Except Ice.
He's an idiot
Quoted from Manimal:I have lost more money than this in a day
Dear Stern
Manimal is OK with shitty NIB games.
Sincerely
PW79
Quoted from Manimal:Gotta love it. For the record, I don't think one issue makes it a shitty game. The problem will get figured out, and if not, I am not going to loose sleep over it. Over 25 years in Fire, EMS, and Law Enforcement......I have enough memories that take care of the sleep all on their own. Go to a scene where some woman has literally had the life beat out of her because she didn't have dinner on the table or look 'pretty enough' when her man got home from the bar, or work your ass off trying to save a child in a mangled wreck, whose only crime that morning was to have a turd for a parent who couldn't put down their cell phone long enough to drive them to school....those are some real things to lose sleep over. See the stare from those eyes and hundreds more, and I guarantee you will look at things different. A Ghostbusters pin? I know hundreds of folks, alive and dead who would love nothing better than to come home today and see an insert problem on their new pin. So yea, maybe I am OK with a shitty game............
I have stories to tell too but I don't bring that shit here.
Its a pinball forum. Not whatever "this" is.
So although I appreciate your service (I really do) I don't think gory details about XYZ are relative to pinball inserts.
Quoted from MikeS:Maybe it's a conspiracy and Stern is now intentionally building games that will fail in a few years' so that we have to buy new ones They simply got tired of being the "Maytag" of the pinball manufacturing business...
Well my Stern's are reliable other than the F'n trough optos. Maybe so
One of the old school pinball manufacturers said clearcoat reduced pinball sales in a big way now that I think about it.
I dont want to sound selfish but why did this PF nonsense have to happen when I have 2x NIB cash
Reminds me of my kid... She always has to use the bathroom @ a restaurant 10 seconds after the food arrives but never the 30 min prior lol.
In all seriousness KPG & others willing to speak up to Stern I'm 99% certain they (Stern) will have your back. It's just gonna take a year I *speculate*
Meanwhile Stern has to of course fix the issue & then publicly say something to guarantee future pins if they want to resume their normal sales trajectory right?
Quoted from Manimal:Wasn't lecturing....another party took a comment and exaggerated that to post how I was OK with a shitty game. I don't like problems any more than the next person, and when mine starts ghosting, I will add my name to the line of folks waiting to see what Stern does. However, with that said, I am not going to lose sleep, throw a fit, or go around telling everyone the "pinball sky" is falling. It sucks...yes....but there are worse things in life.
I did indeed exaggerate... On purpose too.
Its just an efficient way for a lazy person like myself to make a point without a lot of typing.
Please do not misinterpret my comments as a personal dislike towards you. I'm really just bummed out SHTF when my wife & bank account aligned perfectly. You just happened to make the most recent comments about the concerns being overblown so I quoted you.
There are far more important things in life indeed. Tacos & rootbeer for example. But this insert issue certainly sucks & is worth discussing.
Quoted from Dmod:Inserts are sanded to level them with the playfield before ink is applied. Any mold release agent would be long gone from the top surface of the insert before the playfield is screened.
So it's got to be the clear or the ink right?
Quoted from jeffsarcade:Vid mentioned in the other thread that his GBLE inserts were moving... maybe the router that created the holes routed them a tad too big?
Ah that's right.
So SM, GOT, GB & some MET maybe all have over routed inserts?
I dont think the problem is blown out of proportion.
If fact if you look closely the issue appears in non insert themed threads.
There's a FS thread here right now where the dude has 3 newer Stern's FS (KISS, SMVE & GOT) and 2 out of the 3 have ghosting!
He's honest about it (good guy) & his case isn't nearly as bad as many others though.
Still... this is really happening.
One side says Stern will make it right
Another side says Stern won't make it right
For those who have yet to buy... "The only winning move is not to play"
Quoted from kpg:Trent @ Tilt just informed me via email that Stern is not responding to him regarding his customers playfield ghosting issues, and now he has no choice but to start having customers email Stern directly about the issue- namely "John Buscaglia" who is head of sales [email protected]
Love how Stern tells you to contact your distributor, then wont reply to them. They are not only hurting their image and losing customers, but they are hurting their distributors business at this point.
If anyone is having playfield or quality issues, email John. Let's see if they will respond.
BTW- I am up to 7 ghosted inserts as of today- the super jackpot insert on my GBLE is now starting to ghost.
Thats nasty of Stern.
Perhaps its time to begin the campaign. Tag every pinball instagram pic with clever ghosting hashtags. They can control their FB but they can't control or edit other people's IG posts.
Man I hate to hate on Stern, I really do, but what a shit move on their part.
I suppose they deserve whatever they get from those they've wronged.
Based on KPG's experience w/Stern & Trent it appears the "new way" to buy machines is...
A. Buy a discount price HUO with defects
B. Buy a marked up price HUO without defects
C. Buy NIB & later sell it as A or B later on
If Stent dosent make things right they are a bunch of C's and I don't mean option C
Quoted from labnip:i'm not buying a new GB (LE, Prem or Pro) because of all these playfield problems. I almost (i mean, like minutes away) order 1. But, no way now. I'll buy a used & damaged one a year from now for 1/2 the price
Ice should have one for you
Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk
Ah it's become a Stern vs JJP convo
One company says nothing while the other tells you what you want to hear.
Quoted from o-din:No, it was a fresh out of the box pro. It was one of the easiest recent games I played to keep the ball in play. I hit everything. Fortunately the ball finally hopped over the right flipper because I was getting seriously bored.
Odin brother you sound like Billy Mitchell right there.
See this tie... Merica!
Lol
Gary Stern is behind this
He wants to divide us
Better we argue about titties than unite for playfield resolutions
I think asking for $5,000.00 cash deposit on a defective brand new $8,000.00 item they shipped is a bit bogus.
I understand they want the buyer to have some skin in the game & this deposit is to ensure everything is accounted for.
But Damm. Too steep.
At this point I'd just return the whole game & buy a premium later. Fuck the LE badge.
I think a cash deposit, but not $5K, would be half ass acceptable if they shipped a fully populated PF before the customer shipped in theirs.
Better yet a card # to keep on file in case the old PF is not returned.
The PF cost is not $5K to Stern. Heck the whole machine is not $5K to Stern. Maybe they said $5K because they want to prevent some overspending collectors with little to no liquid reserves from getting their game fixed?
If they want the customers PF first shouldn't Stern front the customer some money?
Maybe it's a Trent thing as others have said?
KPG you did a service to Pinside by posting your situation. Don't stop now.
To those acting like we're all some creepers or sexist pigs.
I have a wife & daughter.
But.. I think its primarily women who watch Magic Mike, read 50 shades of grey, dress like trollops for halloween, post IG selfies & pin endless crockpot recipes.
So I say we can have our pinball, barenaked ladies & silicone wives/GF's if we want!
And while I'm Andy Rooney... Every time I go into Target there's a woman returning something. Never a man. Always a woman.
Every.
F'n.
Time.
Stereotypes are actually just statistics that offend people. Old people do drive like shit & Taylor Swift has no ass. Those damn Stereotypes!
Quoted from TomGWI:CC is just in case per the distributors post above as MikeS Qouted.
Option 1: box up playfield, send to stern for swap, stern sends back new playfield No charge
Option 2: have stern send playfield first and put CC on hold with distributor, send back old playfield. No charge unless not sent back
Option 3: hi I'm earth have we meet. No I don't think so.
That is sensible
It sure didn't sound like was the plan that earlier tho
I'm beginning to visit Pinside less as I realize I can't buy anything from Stern NIB for 1+ year & now I don't even trust a used game made in 2016.
Cant even get excited about the next Stern title
because Stern never replied to my email when I was looking @ a NIB TWD Premium.
Damn. Maybe a MMr will cheer me up lol. Hope Stern didn't make the PF's!
This issue does not see rare. We did not have threads like this 2 years ago. I don't recall seeing this on RGP back in the day. On top of that Stern doesn't reply to emails on the subject or publish a warranty. Buyer beware... or is it buyer bend over?
I'm gonna relapse if I keep looking @ the new Odin avatar.
Wait... thats right before his boys flipped him to the feds right?
It's almost poetic. That avatar is an image of betrayed trust... in a thread about betrayed trust lol
Quoted from Rokablly:I am new and ordering a NIB (Premium) for the first time. I emailed my distributor a couple weeks ago asking if they had heard anything from Stern about the play fields and requested to be pushed to the end of the list until all the play field issues are resolved or cancel my order whichever worked best to avoid getting a pin with issues.
I still have not received a reply but I assume it's because they are waiting on an answer/reply from Stern.
I emailed Stern weeks ago asking what would happen if I bought a NIB Stern game with PF defects
They never replied
So keep waiting on that answer from Stern
And waiting
They're ignoring the inquiries
Stern's official PF fix has been released!
Adam West will autograph all chipped/ghosted areas.
Send money now!
Your defective PF is your invite!
Quoted from eggbert52:I haven't had a single machine in the last 8 years have ghosting from Stern. I think you guys either smoke pot in the house, cigarettes, or some other crap ghosting your games. With the exception of that one example where the guy clearly deserved a new machine.
No pot or cigarettes here...
Just chop'n up fat hogger rails from the daily 8balls of toot on the scratched up glass of my EM
So I should be safe?
Quoted from xsvtoys:Was there purple drank involved? And what about that filthy little alien, could he have an effect?
Maybe...
Quoted from cheshirefilms:That's like 3 days ago. I think we'd have to see a month or two of flawless playfield production
I'd say 6+ mos & even then folks need to ask questions regarding manufacturing date & warranty terms.
Ya still gotta worry about distro's & Stern sandbag'n old "at risk" inventory.
Look @ the GB pro unboxing by John's Arcade. His distro told him his game was from the recent run but when he got it the Slimer mech was bogus, the insert had a typo, code was 1st run & the stamp on the game confirmed he was lied to.
Be like Mulder. Trust no one
If I had a ghosting PF and Stern refused to replace it I'd prolly send em dick pics from a new email address every day
Quoted from iceman44:You love me Curly! Are you still waiting out PF gate before you get that GB?
GB disappointed me tremendously. I will play it again on location while waiting for other games to open up but it's just not a *purchase* for me.
I'm in a weird place right now pinball-wise.
Aerosmith is a shit theme IMO but I might buy it soon if code & PF QC is good. If either of those two criteria are not met I will just wait for Star Wars, Archer, Pulp Fiction or whatever LCD title is next to materialize & mature.
Quoted from iceman44:Was it a GB pro or premium? I didn't like the pro nearly as much.
Aerosmith looks like a sleeper, LCD and animations are awesome. Gotta wait out code on that one with Lonnie, I agree and it doesn't hurt to wait and see if Stern has fixed the PF issues.
None on my BM66 yet!
I spent time on GB Premium & GB Pro. Both piss me off. The Pro is missing cool shit while the Premium under utilized or botched (IMO) the cool shit. Weird!
Yeah Aerosmith is indeed a surprise. Code & QC is all I need to see!!!!
Quoted from Who-Dey:I think you're going to see code and quality both. Time to pull out some of that old musty money PW!
Historical data says otherwise
I'm like Mulder... trust no one. Especially pinball companies. They are the F'n worst lol
But you're right my money is musty!
Quoted from jar155:I've been skeptical of the all is well claims too, but I'm pretty convinced now. I think we'll need to accept that no matter what a few bad ones will always get out. It's just up to Stern to do the right thing and replace them.
Stern also denies claims...
We all know what will happen to that dude's PF if he plays it. But Stern pretends the early indicator is the final result. Its not. Its like that carpenters song "The ghosting's just begun"
Aaaand again Stern sent defective PF's to replace defective PF's. That is not a confidence inspiring move.
Aaaaaand they ignored my email when I was about to buy a NIB TWD & I wanted to know the PF warranty. Thats a dickhead move so I bought a HUO TWD.
Aaaaaand its not just one game. Its MET, GOT, SMVE & GB. Shit!
Aaaaand so many games are unfinished.
Am I surrounded by shills? Is Pinside an elaborate pinball matrix that only exists to fool me & only me?
Lol Tramadol & Waffle House theories
Quoted from emkay:My Google-Fu is failing here, please clue me in on this one - it sounds awesome.
Its not something you can google
It was me 10 minutes ago eating a pecan waffle
Quoted from iceman44:WAY overblown. Just do it. Curly is scared of his own shadow right now.
Yeah, I'm probably worried about nothing. Oh snap, peep this Aerosmith insert
Your BM66 stands for "Broken Mech 66" right?
Lol that was below the belt, sorry bro
Quoted from Who-Dey:Sometimes you just have to grow a pair don't you iceman?
Quoted from Who-Dey:This isnt Sterns intended quality. If it was they wouldn't be replacing peoples playfields right now
My collection is 100% Stern
It's likely 100% of my future purchases will be Stern
Stern is my favorite
I love Stern
But they are not very cool at the moment.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Way to try and ruin this guys NIB experience, real nice of you! How many walking dead have you seen lately with bad playfields? None?
Nothing personal here. I'm pretty sure the guy you replied to just received a NIB with PF issues (I could be wrong).
A wise man once said "You never have a problem till you have a problem". So TWD is fine until its not.
IIRC its MET, GB, KISS, SMVE, GOT & now AES. So forgive a guy for keeping it real & stating no title is exempt.
I think everyone here likes Stern. We just dont like their lack of action, communication & code. Plus it does seem Stern takes their customers for granted (lately).
Quoted from Who-Dey:I know PW its all good bro lol. I do know that you know better though about the Bengals. Now if you wanna say the Reds suck, then yeah....im in full agreement with you there! Who do you root for, the Seahags? Talk about a team that has a history of sucking!
This surprises many but I dont follow sports at all
I dont even know the rules of football
So I root for anyone but those asshole Rams lol
I do like cheerleaders tho!
Who-Dey
Dude
Stern's very own in house produced promo video for Aerosmith has ghosted inserts
How can you defend that & say all is well when they cannot even find a good PF to film?
Quoted from dzoomer:Temper expectations. Seems so many people want or expect epic coding now-a-days.
Will do
Right after Stern tempers their epic pricing on fully featured premiums.
Quoted from tacshose:Still have not heard from Stern on my MET pro, haven't been able to play for months and Stern is not responding to my distro. I agree that at the Pro price point Stern is the only player, but that does not make screwing over your customers right. Again, if anyone wants a good deal on a 2016 MET PRO with a couple hundred plays, clear chipping, and continuous drop target problems let me know I would love to just take the hit and sell this POS
Your situation was one the largest deciding factors in my purchase of a NIB Golden Tee 2017 instead of a NIB Stern Pro just 2 weeks ago, No way I was gonna buy a current Stern if a local collector got burned on the most recent MET run.
Stern's lack of reply to my PF inquiry on TWD NIB maybe 4-6 mos ago was the largest deciding factor that pushed me to buy a HUO Pro instead
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