That clear chipping in the shooter lane and the out hole along with the magnitude of the ghosting is not how it has always been. This is not the norm

I just hope these problems get worked out and or solved for affected customers. Stern is making some great designed games as of late. They are creating "Fun in a box". I am unsure of the reasons behind the quality of the playfields and the cabinet decal peeling issues, but have to wonder if it is pressure from the investors that helped bail out Stern. Are they trying to use inferior products to help profits and cut costs? When you get investors they expect growing returns on their investments. Is this the reason for all the shortcuts? Prices have increased quite a bit creating, I am sure, greater profits for Stern. The collector market has supported the price increases but if the quality doesn't keep to where it was I don't believe the collector market will continue to support the price increase as a whole and Stern will lose customers. Look at the above reactions, the sentiment is a lot of pinsiders will not chance buying a NIB now until these issues get worked out. Some are rolling the dice and will take their chances depending on lots of different scenarios.

Did they say they will get back to you on a resolution or was it thanks for the pics, see you later and enjoy your game as is?

Even if it is just one bad batch (if that is the case) these playfields should not be used. If Stern offered these ghosting playfields for sale to you and knowing that they have ghosting would you purchase or want one to install in a game? The real information is they are being shipped with ghosting inserts from the factory which is not acceptable IMO.

True maybe I have mispoke about the ghosting being on the machine when it leaves the factory. But posts of pictures of NIB machines being open with ghosting before a ball has been played have been posted.

The quality is not near the same that it has been. My RCT clear in the shooter lane has never chipped like that and the outhole is perfect. I don't see one insert that exhibits any ghosting either.

If there is a huge amount of QC going on then this is a good sign that Stern will handle the problem accordingly IMO.

The rub: Pinball machines were originally a commercial product with very few home buyers. They were intended to be bought and routed by an operator originally. This is no longer the only scenario as their market has changed to greater then 50% of these machines being sold to home owners and or collectors in the USA. Stern doesn't wish to lose this market so they have to adapt to their changing market and they have done so and are continuing to do so. Stern relies on both of these seperate markets purchasing pinball machines for their business. They address both of these markets as they both are important. Stern is designing these machines for collectors, home buyers, operators and if you watch a few of their interviews at expos and what not they publicly state this as their intentions. They are concerned with what collectors and home buyers think otherwise they would not address these cosmetic issues. Their tech support helps a lot of buyers both operators and collectors with non official warranty issues related to cosmetics. They do not just tell these people to pound sand and try to satisfy their concerns because they realize that they need to address these issues for the success of their business now and in the future.

So that being said those that say if you don't like it don't buy is not a relevant arguement. Home buyers and collectors want pinball machines in their homes and or collections and Stern needs these customers as well. Home buyers and collectors buy pinball machines for a variety of reasons, to play them, to display them, to collect them, ect ect....Stern realizes this and does cater to this market. They address cosmetic issues as well as electronic ones. 100% satisfaction will never be reached as they have to filter in reasonable resolutions that don't destroy their bottom line but also resolutions that satisfy most buyers both present and in the future.

I believe Gary Stern has at least two daughters as he told the story of sending a machine to one of his daughters while she was at college and then his other daughter got wind of it and said to Gary, hey where is my pinball machine? So he sent her one as well.

55 minutes in is the story from Gary Stern

Until they fix the process they could very well just be sending you a playfield with the same ghosting issues or chipping clear coat.

They should playfield swap the defective playfields once they get the issue worked out or if the customer would prefer just a new playfield send them one.

I highly doubt you would hear any kind of announcement. I don't think they will publicly acknowledge either the fault or that the problem is solved. This will be handled on a case by case basis I would assume from the customers that contact them. Supplier issues are a touchy subject as there are multiple companies involved here, Stern and the supply company.

Needs a new populated playfield is all...With this many issues I am sure Stern will do this for you.

Okay maybe sure isn't the correct term but I can say when I received a playfield that was scratched that they did send me a populated playfield quickly and swapping it was a piece of cake.

Call Stern and let them know your distributor told you to call them yourself.

The topper looks a lot better in person then in pictures. I thought it looked great at California Xtreme. The only thing I didn't care for was the Siren but it wasn't that bad and someone on here painted one and posted a picture that looked a lot better.

When you take delivery of the machine how are you going to know the playfield is scratched? Do people open these up and inspect the game with the shipping company employee waiting till you check it out? I don't mean this to be sarcastic I am just asking if anyone does this?

30 plays that is some crappy clear. I just dont understand why everybody doesn't puts mylar in the shooter lane before the first plunge though. Such cheap insurance.

I hope you are right but man it really seems like this is going to be very expensive if they address all of these issues with a populated playfield to those that don't have the capability to swap them out. Heck it will be very expensive to just send a playfield out to all that are affected. Interesting to see how this plays out.

From the seminars I have watched Stern definitely (both Gary and Gomez) acknowledge that the market has switched in the US. They know that the market is not just operators and includ the home purchaser as much, if not more sales to the latter then ops. This has been stated in several interviews and seminars. If you look at what their business model is becoming you can easily see evidence of this fact. They sale mods direct now on their website (retailer). Stern is very involved in their retail sales with their distributors...to the point of setting minimum pricing including telling the Distributors that they are not to include freebies with purchases.

So the argument of these are Commercial machines is just blah blah blah. Originally yes but currently they are both Commercial and Consumer products that Stern caters to both markets as they are both essential to their profit margins. So these cosmetic issues specifically ghosting is a valid concern to Pinsiders and the argument that "you know these are commercial machines so don't complain" is no longer valid in 2016.

If it was simply a matter of ordering up new playfields without the problem and keep production moving along they would have done that. I believe this is a bigger problem then that. Your fire everyone solution would cause way more problems for the company and the QC then help.

This is not limitied to just the GB LE play fields

I think there is an impact on Stern but I think the LE's are the exception to these cancelled orders (however many there really are). More people will risk GBLE then if it was just a base game. How many others that don't read pinside are oblivious to the ghosting issues going on? Now if I had took the plunge and purchased an LE and was waiting for it...I would not cancel my order as even with the known ghosting issues the machine is worth more defective then what I would have paid. I was going to purchase a NIB GB Premium but will hold off now till this situation gets resolved. I might just wait now for a HUO example so I can inspect the game prior to purchase.

Well if they made a public statement like that then they would be admitting that they know they have a problem and don't have it resolved but are continuing to produce machines knowing they have a problem with a large percentage of those machines being manufactured. Seems like a lose lose situation to me. I don't think Stern can financially afford to shut the line down until this problem is solved vs producing the product and handle the issues down the road. I would bet that they have decided it is much more cost effective to go on with business as usual handle the known issues case by case and come up with a solution as quick as possible to these problem playfields.

Speaking from experience a populated playfield swap on a SAM system is not a big deal at all. I did it with my first machine when I was green and it took all of 10 minutes.

It is the policy of Stern to say that the code is complete upon a titles release.

This just seems crazy to me. Trent should be on the horn with Stern...how do they not respond to questions posed over the phone. I understand not returning emails is possible but if I was a dist. I would be raising hell on the phone. I really hope Stern answers your emails...

I think they are in the process of killing their LE NIB market as we speak and a lot of future sales as well. Well maybe killing it is not the correct term but they are definitely taking some hits to overall sales. Ask KPG or others on here with problems if they are going to buy another LE NIB soon. Stern's distributors (All of them) represent Stern. Trent telling KPG to contact Stern directly is a piss poor representation of Stern the company itself IMO. Stern not answering distributors or customers themselves on this issue is arrogant and ridiculous. Stern by now knows they have an issue with these playfields and it didn't start with GBLE, look at the GOT issues and the SMVE issues or even the GB pros. I think that Stern will satisfy most of these customer issues but the way they are going about it (old school ways) does not seem to bode well for the current market conditions and there current customers. They need to wake up, communicate (one on one if they so choose), make the customers whole to the best of their ability that makes sense and keep their personal pinball resurgence growing. I hope they do just that. I am a fan of their current games as I think they are designed well and are some of the most FUN in a box games around. I want more of them made.

I wonder what the percentage of ghosting playfields vs good playfields are sent out. 10%, 50%, 75%. Hard to tell what the percentage is..would be interesting to know but I guess if you are not a dist. you could not get a accurate feel for the true percentage. I ask as I wish to order a machine or two but am cautious. If the figure was closer to 10% I would just place a order as I feel if I was an unlucky one Stern would make it right with a populated playfield, closer to 50% and I feel that I would be only getting a NOS playfield that I would have to pay someone to swap out the playfield. Does anyone know of any Met Premiums buyers that had ghosting issues or sparky chipping lately?

This needs to be their next shirt!

Post during non business hours also so they are not deleted in seconds maybe...while some people are asleep...I guess they won't get many views though during that time...post during the Stern Party!

The last thing I would do in your shoes is cancel the LE order. It would not be hard to sale it for what you have into it unopened in the box...heck Ill buy it from you.

I just said I would buy it at what he paid plus a couple hundred

SMVE had tons of ghosting issues...it didn't start with GB pro

Frontier is another glass popper...love it!

When I had a problem with my Stern playfield on my RCT back in 2003. Stern determined to swap out my playfield. They sent me a box to place my playfield in. I took pictures of the connecting cables and removed the playfield from my game and sent the playfield off to Stern (If I was to do it again I would just use stickers and label the connectors). They completed the swap and sent the playfield back to me out here on the coast of California. They took care of all the shipping costs. It took all of 11 days....yes sucks to be without your game for this time but I received back my playfield and put it back in. Took all of 10 minutes to do. It was easy and I was very green in my pinball endeavors at the time. My new playfield was swapped with all of my own parts. They must have checked everything thoroughly as I have had zero issues with my game since this time, well actually I replaced one flasher bulb. The only thing I have ever done is cleaned the game replaced rubbers and pinballs YMMV though.

In hindsite the 11 days was something that nobody wants to deal with but I did get a handpicked perfect playfield swapped into my game that has lasted to this day. Once the time passes it is in the past and 11 days goes by quick. I would suggest just going this route if it is offered to you...in the long run it is the best option IMO.

If the $5000 playfield upfront deposit was from Stern this is ridiculous and absurd...I could understand maybe a $1500 core deposit or whatever Stern's actual cost on parts for a populated playfield. Sounds to me they don't want many people using this option and the 5 grand was to deter just this. I doubt they want to deal with all the parts of a used machine being returned and the additional labor involved in recovering these parts after the fact if they even chose to reuse them...which I would not want on my new machine if they would reuse them. This paragraph is just me speculating.

Ok that clears up the $5000 deposit. Yes $5000 is to much for a populated LE playfield and you know it! LOL

distributor pays nowhere close to $8195 wholesale...they were selling LE's for $7200 to the end customer shipped. Knock your 600 off that price now your at $6600..now does $5000 seem absurd to you?

This is what I read where at the beginning he states that Stern immediately charges Trent and he would need $5k then he goes on to say that he wouldnt charge the CC....so to clarify I don't know what Trent means here as he stated it both ways, that he needs the deposit up front since he gets charged right away and later he said that he wouldn't charge the CC. So what part of his statement did he mean?

"So unless Stern changes their policy KGB will have to send his playfield back first. And if he somehow talks Stern into sending a playfield to him first I would need a $5000 deposit. For the simple reason that as soon as it gets shipped I get billed for it. That is my policy and I can hold a credit card for it no problem and as long as it gets returned there are no issues and nothing gets charged."

Ok but we are talking a defective product here. So Stern should not mark up the populated playfield price to a distributor. $3300 is not Sterns BOM cost for a populated playfield. I don't have a clue what this cost would be for just the playfield, but I would suspect that it is closer to $1k then $3300 by a long shot. I will guess high and say Stern has no more then $1500 in a populated playfield including assembly labor.

Glad to hear this will be resolved for you...I figured it would be. Enjoy the heck out of that game now!

I guess in doing so you would promote purchasing stolen property. Probably the reason that Stern has a $5k deposit policy now I guess. Someone always out there screwing things up for the majority of honest folks.

Something physical must be making contact with the ball for it to lose all that momentum. It does sound like the ball is hitting something in the subway on your video.

Copied this for you from the issue thread about subway:

Subway ramp the ball doesn't feed cleanly to the right return lane.
-Small stainless steel diverter flap is pertruding slightly causing the ball to skip. Adjust the flap by bending it slightly.

That even sounds clearer that you can hear the ball hitting something when it failed to come out vs when it was successful. The ball didn't become magnetized did it? Have you tried it with a new ball?

If you ask me this "PROGRAM" is nonsense and does nothing to restore confidence in purchasing right now. A matter of fact I think their is not really a program as some on here have talked to distributors who know nothing about it or claim not to. If there is a program then it should be publicly announced or definitely should have been implemented by Stern to all of their distributors so the consumers would not have to call their distributors out on this. It is ridiculous to me that any consumer should have to inform a distributor about any kind of program...comical.
It seems more of a monetary protection program for Stern then a program to stand behind their product. Yes the squeaky wheel or if you create a voiced public outcry will probably get a good resolution but a lot of people don't like to work and put in phone or email time to just get a good resolution. A few phone calls by Gary to me was just to calm some of the people on this forum as they were raising valid concerns...Gary calls them and calms them down and promises that they will be taken care of which I am sure he will. These people will then not voice anymore public outcry....but not everyone is willing to go this route to get simply what they should get from Stern when purchasing NIB. I think it has worked to a degree though...Gary calls a few people and now no more pictures of their games degrading because they were silenced. No more outcry, damage control program successful.
I think Stern should really implement a program and acknowledge the problem publicly to restore confidence in consumers, past, present and future. I wonder how many potential sales they are really losing. A lot of consumers on here have stated that they are holding off...does this damage Sterns bottom line? I know personally that I was hoping to buy a couple of games NIB as I recently have been getting back into pinball...I really want a MET and GB which I wanted to purchase NIB but now I am simply on hold and decided the risk/reward for a NIB purchase is to great. I like opening a game NIB...it's a thrill that anyone has experienced can attest to. To me it can be compared to buying a new car vs a slightly used one. Yes I know you lose money driving that new car off the lot but their is nothing like driving a new car. A slightly used one is nice to but definitely not the same feeling as buying it new. For now I will wait and see what happens to make a choice...right now it's looking like just wait for a good HUO down the road. Fix your playfields Stern and while your at it Fix your "Program".

Figures a switch went out tonight on my Rocket Vuk...I have to wonder if I didn't post this if it still would have stayed strong..lol...at least it was a easy fix.

Sort of like no examples from you of Stern stepping up to the plate.

Im sure this will happen...

I don't see any ghosting on that insert..just reflections

I think it is just a photo artifact on that insert. Under the M in The Venom looks to be the photographers top of his head reflection if you blow it up you can see hair. The crack in the insert I think from the pic is just a light trick kinda like the white stripe above the Green with envy insert. I could be wrong though maybe it is jacked up...would need to see in person I think but my hunch is it is fine. Looks to be wax in the mylar groove going through Spiderman.

They should all have rubber on them.

I don't think anyone knows if they are fixed or not...including Stern themselves. Time will tell.

there nothing disected here this is your post where it says Sept 7th. Pinside is waiting their $50 donation.

Ok I didn't see where you changed your date again...

Just call their 1-800-kickers and I am sure they will send you a shirt.

Maybe January is their self projected safe time to figure out if they have all these issues worked out. If Stern addresses the problem before they know if the problem with these playfields is fixed then they just might have to swap playfields more then once. Someone reported a playfield with issues of a Sept. 9th production date. I don't think they have the issue 100% corrected yet but they could have...just don't know. Unlike Cars where a problem with the M series could kill lives if not addressed, pinball machines will not and it is a problem that I believe Stern feels they can go on as normal and attend to later down the road to make consumers whole.

I will hazard a guess...September 8th is the date of the newest playfields Stern has on hand. The issues are not fixed yet.

I find this hard to believe.

That's crazy you have all those issues and you can't get on the list...I would be on the horn daily till they did. Not cool or acceptable.

Wow ghosting at that date....No wonder they are not swapping them all out now they do not have the fix and they sure in the heck don't want to have to swap multiple times.

This is what is keeping me from buying right now.

Still seems like a crap shoot...surprised to see Aerosmith playfield ghosting but maybe these were made in 2016?

I think he got in at $8500

Think he is a bit burned out on Pinside. Some of his posts alluded to that he needed a break.

Aerosmith code is bad? This isn't good as I was under the impression that it was code complete because of the Stern release delay. Would love to here more about the problems with this code if you could expand on it.

I have kept up and I don't believe there has been a single case that someone received a populated playfield first. If so please link to the post.