Quoted from vid1900:

CCC makes the ones with the normal looking shooter lane.
The ones with the odd looking shooter lanes are softer Birch wood and are made in Germany:

Quoted from Wickerman2:

That thing is cherry

Quoted from vid1900:

Stern pays $200 per playfield to CCC in quantity 1000

Quoted from SadSack:

You must have slept through the decades of clearcoat adhesion problems for both GM and Ford. I don't recall any compensation for the cars I owned that faded/bubbled/peeled. They were all out of warranty.. just like your NIB playfield.
And, as I pointed out previously, you can go to the dealership today and find plenty of cars with orange peel. I don't see GM stripping and repainting any of the corvettes coming off the line with orange peel... and a lot of those are special ordered as well. I wonder how many special order cars are rejected because of paint issues.

Quoted from iceman44:

Exactly, that's why Stern should tell these whiny little bitches to go F themselves
Of course in a PC kind of way, not how I would do it

Quoted from iceman44:

Hehe, sorry Kiwi, come to the US and join us. Can't help the currency translation.
I do feel your pain, that is awful and I don't know how you guys do it!

Quoted from iceman44:

No prob Kiwi, they will get it worked out. You overseas guys deserve a medal or something. The local whiners are clueless.

Quoted from Jaybird815:

I agree with iceman, if you're that worried get your deposit back and don't buy it, there is way too much crying going on here. It's really quite simple, wait and buy an HUO. But everybody has to be the first to have the latest title. JUST WAIT IF YOURE THAT CONCERNED!

Quoted from cody_chunn:

The rub: Pinball machines are a commercial product. They are intended to be bought and routed by an operator. That's why the have coin slots and pricing adjustments. Their ability to recover ROI is unaffected by these "problems". They will earn the same with blemishes or not.
We are trying to impose "collector condition" quality defects on a commercial device. We are buying for personal enjoyment in the commercial market. I fully expect Stern to eventually say these "defects" are acceptable for their commercial products.
If you want collector quality, buy from a manufacturer that is making a personal use item designed for collectors.

Quoted from Mbecker:

I wouldn't say this is necessarily true either.. we have plenty of LE's and Premiums on route around here.. Operators are buying those just as much as Pros.. and there's plenty of home owners buying Pros 'cause that's what they can afford as well. The pricing model that some people seem to get upset about simply allows consumers to choose what fits their needs and budget, not any different than many other consumer products.
.

Quoted from someoneelse:

I don't think much has changed in export/domestic ratio. At least if you look at the LE sales it's usually 50/50.
What I can say 100% for sure is that the commercial ratio is tiny here in Europe, especially in Germany. It is extremely hard to find machines on route, while the collector market is huge.
I really doubt that that Stern is doing more sales on commercial than home use. But since this thread it is quite clear to me why Gary is emphasizing the commercial sales again and again as his main field of business - it is more or less the only "excuse" that pinheads here are bringing up regarding the quality problems Stern seems to be having.
Imagine the level of outrage if Stern would acknowledge something like 70-80% home user sales. All arguments in this thread defending Stern's quality level would be void immediately and all of a sudden home users would have a voice that counts.

Quoted from Jaybird815:

It makes no sense to many for home market buyers to buy LEs as your just paying extra for art work.

Quoted from vid1900:

I service LEs on route all the time.
No lack of them earning around here.

Quoted from vid1900:

Unqualified numbers are meaningless anyway.
Home buyers are:
80% of LE Sales?
80% of ALL sales?
80% of all sales today?
80% of all sales this week?
80% of all sales this quarter?
80% of all sales so far this year?
80% of all sales ever, including used games?
80% of all sales from 2000 - 2015?
80% of Retail sales?
80% of walk-in sales at Cue & Spa?
-
“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics.” - Mark Twain

Quoted from LesManley:

LEs come out much earlier than the Premiums. If you want to be the first to have the full featured game on route and you want to benefit from the earnings in the timeframe before the Premium is released, you go LE. If the timeline between the Pro, LE and Premium are too far apart, but the time the Premium makes it to route, the thrill is gone and the game isn't earning like it did when it was first released. There is an op here who buys LEs all the time to route cause he doesn't want to wait for the Premium. Normally the resale will hold it's value better as well.

Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

For more historical reference for collectors.
More examples of manufacturer defects both in inserts and playfields.
"$#@! happens."

Quoted from o-din:

Last I heard the only thing they were fixin' were pink slips.

Quoted from NPO:

Yeah...don't expect that from a company when we have people dropping $8000 on a product that is site unseen and BARELY been played since its reveal in March 2016.
Stern knows this community is all too eager to spend its money just to say "OO OO OO OO!!! Look at me - I'm the kool kid with the brand new shiny toy on the block that no one else has....!"
Stern can't pump these games out fast enough - well - normally.

Quoted from inhomearcades:

What standard does the game not meet? Your acting as if this is the only game in the history of pinball machines that has this issue. Ghosting is not limited to your one game. You keep referring to the consumer law there, can you please cite which section covers an issue like this?
Ghosting is a natural chemical reaction on a pinball machine, not limited to your specific game and it's not necessarily a flaw.

Quoted from inhomearcades:

This is not an issue. It's a natural occurrence in some pinball machines.

Quoted from imharrow:

I believe you are doing it wrong. Don't buy NIB if you want reliable and error free. Buy used..

Quoted from rotordave:

Ooooffffff Mikey. That's terrible. Send it back.
rd

Quoted from imharrow:

I believe you are doing it wrong. Don't buy NIB if you want reliable and error free. Buy used. Buy a machine with a proven track record that has been played enough to expose any issue.
I buy NIB because I am willing to accept the risk and the used market for newish sterns is pretty quiet up here. But every machine is unique. My AC/DC just plays harder than other instances. Subtle differences in the ramps kill the momentum making the shots harder. If you play that instance before you buy you can see these things.
There are distributors out there that will do high touch treatment, offer their own warranties and help you with every aspect of owning a machine. This is a different experience than drop shipping and differing issues to stern. Find one of those. Some will setup the machine and run it through it paces before delivering to your home.
I have minor ghosting. I am waiting to see if it get's worse. I am only concerned if the delamination leads to cracking up in the future. I have heard of others that are worse and could only have happened from a mistake in the clear process. The ghosting on mine I am sure will be classified and within allowable margins.
Don't get me wrong, I would rather have no ghosting, but I am not going to stress over cosmetics.
Let the down votes commence.

Quoted from SadSack:

Imagine you were an alien that was transported directly into a pre-school daycare. You might have an interesting impression of what humans are like. Pinside is a little like that daycare - a subset of buyers, generally not representative of the market as a whole.

If I was your distributor, I'd tell you to go pound sand. Or maybe I'd just agree and tell you to go pound sand if you tried to make a claim. Some of you guys should switch your hobby to jewelry or fine art.

Quoted from Manic:

You're probably fine. I just bought a TWD a couple months ago and there have been no issues. No issues anywhere actually so I've been pretty pleased with it. Stern can indeed make them well... usually.

Quoted from flashinstinct:

For the pour soul that didn't know then yes, the newb that walked in at a retailer. But some of these guys complaining now have had weeks to cancel their order and have been posting in this thread for over a month. Deposits are refundable. They're is no excuse at this point.
Do I feel bad for the guys.... of course I do...but still at some point us collector's have to become accountable.
i would buy a GB Pro tomorrow if my distributor putts it in writing that I will be taken cared of. That way it's softens the blow. You know you will most likely get a game that has defects but that Stern and the distributors will respond and take care of the situation. People at this point are just buying blind in hopes they don't get an affected playfield. That...at least to me, is not excusable.

Quoted from flashinstinct:

From the poll thread in case some of you want to know what can happen even after 150 plays :O

Quoted from clg:

.
The wood utilized by us and our former competitors for playfields over the last decades has been made to the same specifications, as has the “hardcoat” coating. The routing, sanding, finishing, etc., processes utilized to manufacture playfields over those decades have not changed.

Quoted from iceman44:

I'm back on with the GBLE. Distro to receive Friday, I'll get mine next week sometime.
I originally asked to go to the back of the line and then changed my mind.
If I get ghosting I'll live with it and see what Stern does to remedy the situation.
In the interim I'm going to have fun playing the crap out of what looks to be a great pin.
If I don't like it and want to sell it later, how much will a GBLE with some ghosting sell for? $6k? $5K?
So what, life's too short to worry about it. Am I an idiot? Probably.

Quoted from clg:

Did you get a response or just the thing he sent out today? I know others have asked as well. I was all set to order one but CC was a bit to vague on when it would arrive and I was going to be overseas for a while so decided to wait till I was back. I may still get one but it will definitely not be until things have calmed and I am convinced they have this solved.
I don't see a need to rush this and I'm not so in love with the game I am prepared to take the depreciation hit if I get a bad one. I would route this for a little while and I don't think it would hold up.

Quoted from iceman44:

Is somebody really complaining about "dimpling" too or is Coin Cascade out to lunch?

Quoted from EricHadley:

Show us the email or it didn't happen

Quoted from flashinstinct:

WTF? Water-based clearcoat? Wonder how durable that is?
Water based clearcoated dry within 2 hours with less order and are crystal clear compared to the oil-based coats.

Quoted from rotordave:

Well, someone had to do a Hitler video about it ....
http://captiongenerator.com/100017/Hitler-not-happy-about-his-new-Ghostbusters-pin
Someone cleverer than me might like to put it on YouTube so the IPhone guys can see it ...
rd

Quoted from rotordave:

You almost got a mention.
rd

Quoted from PW79:

If I was Stern I'd shit right now
Vid is like a Pinside shaman
Aaaaand they shipped him a defective game
It's just a matter of time before the "How to not get fucked in pinball" tutorial is updated with "rule #99 don't buy a Stern"

Quoted from Pinballlew:

So the argument of these are Commercial machines is just blah blah blah. Originally yes but currently they are both Commercial and Consumer products that Stern caters to both markets as they are both essential to their profit margins. So these cosmetic issues specifically ghosting is a valid concern to Pinsiders and the argument that "you know these are commercial machines so don't complain" is no longer valid in 2016.

Quoted from vid1900:

Most the serious pinball arcades I visit, ONLY have LEs on the floor.
One that comes to immediately to mind, has the Pro out first, then replaces it with the LE once available.

Quoted from MapleSyrup:

You would lose that bet.
I don't like Cliffy's. I like regular shooter lane wear. That's supposed to happen.
No, don't leave a beer on the glass... Are you a f$&cking idiot??! There are drink holders on each side of every pin.
Not only can you not smoke around the pins, you can't smoke in my F$)cking house, because I'm not a moron. That second hand shit will kill me and my kids.
If you kick the machine or hit it in anger... You're a loser, and will not be invited back. It's a game folks. If you can't handle your rage during friendly competition, then I don't want you in my home.
Those are my rules! Haha
As for machine condition. My BoP2.0 looks like it was dragged behind a truck. Plays great though! It has a cracked billion insert. Who cares?! Not me.
My LOTr is HUO. I've had it since 2004. I Mylar'd the Shire hole cause it was a little beat up. Used a sharpie to fix the splintered wood at its side. Looks great.
My Fast Draw had some bad playfield fixes before I got it. They look kind of crappy... But I don't care. The game plays great.
I collect pins to play them. I love almost everything about pinball, aside from the whining that goes on here!!!
I have quite a diverse collection, I think, but my favourites by MANY miles are my modern Sterns.
I'm not going to get in to a pissing match, but I did want to defend my position when somebody starts to try to use bully tactics.
I always try to stay mindful of the golden rule though, "If you win an argument on the Internet... You've lost"
Happy flipping fellas. If you're upset, I hope you find a solution that makes you happy. This is supposed to be fun, right?!

Quoted from iceman44:

Beautiful pin. Great fun!
No ghosting out of box.
Need the left ramp protector. Air balls off of those posts are unreal.
I'll post pics and review this thing later. Off to play.
Future ghosting or not, so happy I decided to keep it.

Quoted from Griffin:

Earlier this year there was a large staff walk-out at the company that has been doing Stern's PFs for years now which left everyone in a bad place. When those people left they took a significant amount of knowledge with them. The management have been re-staffing but of course finding people with decades of hands on (not just theory) PF making knowledge is near impossible. This is where the delays have been coming from, unable to fulfill volume due to staff shortages and Stern rejecting obviously unacceptable PFs from them.

Quoted from 3pinballs:

I totally agree. If that was the case they should have stayed with the company, instead trying to save money it's going to cost them way more in the end/

Quoted from JoshODBrown:

where is your Metallica chipping? drain hole? My metallica play field was from March (i dont recall the exact date without looking, i think it was between 5-15th), the date on the back of my cabinet is April 5. and so far i have no chipping of clear at the drain hole after about 130 games. Another person I know who lives in town near me got a NIB Metallica about 2 months ago and hes got some drain hole chipping almost immediately, noticed it after a few dozen games.

Quoted from kpg:

GOOD NEWS! Gary has offered to give me two complimentary tickets to the Epic 30th Anniversary Bash, along with a meet and greet w/ photo op with Mindy the monkey!
Joking aside, I just got off the phone w/ Gary. Very nice guy, I have never met or spoke with him before. Going off the top of my head, i'll try to remember everything we discussed.
Gary said he isn't ignoring any of these issues, and has been 'following along' with the complaints online including my emails and other messages (I would assume this thread).
He said Stern is well aware of the issues, and although ghosting does happen with pinball, he acknowledged there is definitely a lot more happening with Ghostbusters. He did comment that every design is different, and that some games have more airballs then others. Perhaps that is something being discussed at Stern, because as we know airballs are violent on GB, especially the LE models.
Gary said they are currently "working on a program" that will work with dealers that will work to remedy these problems. These issues will be handled through the dealers via this program. He said Trent as a dealer will be provided with the details soon and he will work with me on getting this resolved.
I asked if it was cool to share these details and he didn't say no.. but he did say for us to be patient, and that these problems will be resolved- but it would be more efficient to have a program with dealers then everyone going direct at this point, so thats brewing in the background.
He gave me his personal cell phone and call him directly if I have any issues at any point with resolving the problem with the machine during this process.

Quoted from NeoGeo:

We don't know what they are offering yet so it's a little premature to congratulate them yet, no?

Quoted from rotordave:

It won't happen ever, because in the USAs litigious environment, it'll be 10 minutes before someone files a class action lawsuit and breaks the company.
They're quietly handling it on a case by case basis hoping like hell that not too many people complain. And the reality is, many customers aren't even going to notice a tiny bit of ghosting unless someone tells them to look for it.
And their traditional customer base (operators) don't care as long as the machine is taking in bucks on site.
rd

Quoted from Flato:

I think they will do something for some the question is going to be is it for one ghosting insert two three four where's the line? Also there's the time issue they are not going to do anything in till PF are 100 percent so I would not be surprised if it was many months before people receive a conclusion. Now if I knew for certain I'd have a fix in x months I would have no problems watching my 8k fall apart for a while.

Quoted from tpoeckh:

I'm not sure why you feel the need for a dissertation here. Total waste of time and I'm not going to bother reading an essay on an enthusiast forum. You don't know the cause of the Stern playfield issues, but can speculate on possible causes, which young cheaper wood could be one, agreed. However, this isn't proof that this is what is causing the delamination of the clear coat from the plastic inserts, or the chipping of clear coat in the shooter lane for the Stern playfields in question. You're trying to present your opinion as fact, and I'm calling it out. This doesn't make me a troll.

Quoted from PeterG:And what is your trusted source......I am waiting so long.....

Quoted from capguntrooper:

Yes, but more to the point of the point. Did owners get their replacements of their replacements? Two that I have seen just on pinside had replacement duds that immediately ghosted like in Phbooms case, 40 plays and ghosts were back.
This thread should keep going until everyone aint afraid of no ghost.

Quoted from Bendit:

After a while, the ghosting amount will "settle", correct?