Wrong person, it wasn't GS, but good rumor.

Hope nobody bought into rumor of layoffs. If you watched the twitch from stern factory today, it was business as usual. Not saying games were flying out the door, but plenty of urgency.

This thread covers a lot of material but doesn't answer many concerns. Here are some technical questions that surely someone know the answers.

1) let's say a GBLE owner bought a spare playfield that currently sits next to his machine. Should both playfields act the same, ie if the playable one starts ghosting, it would because of chemical reaction of the paints or temperature shifts, not caused by ball rub, so the spare playfield would be just as susceptible to ghosting, right?

2) ghosting is primarily an issue with GBLE games having been run over past few months. No other title is experiencing the same wholesale issue, including MMR, right? Other games are getting made by Stern without the ghosting,including GB pro and GB prem, right?

3) if your GBLE playfield should start ghosting, you could fix it by swapping in a new playfield, but could you sand and reclear your existing playfield to fix the problem, right? Don't understand if this would work as a practical matter or if iother factors would prevent it from working.

flynnibus you rock thanks for the clear, concise and timely explanations!

We are at a code red level for insert ghosting today on new Stern playfields.
code_red2_(resized).jpg

Should you be considering a purchase of a new Stern playfield or pinball machine in the near term, keep these three simple words dear - inspect, inspect and inspect - those inserts. A little prayer may go a long way towards preventing future problems too so it is worth a shot. Maybe Stern is catching most of the bad playfields at the factory, but as long as the insert condition continues to deteriate after opening and playing a new Stern pinball, I can't see shelling out the money. I'll wait for Stern to announce the clear coating problem has been resolved and will then verify it on Pinside, before believing it.

I had been hunting for a GBLE, but have come to realize that spending $7k - $9k on a new pinball machine from Stern and then having to cross my fingers that it holds up was not in the cards for me. That is a lot of risk and worry to follow spending of a lot of money. The search has been put on hold.

code_red5_(resized).jpg

Most of you clicked on the youtube link above, but if you didn't watch it before, give it a try now. I didn't realize how wide spread the ghosting issue was and continues to be.

code_red4_(resized).jpg

Nice you were able to enact this provision in your purchase agreement. It makes perfect sense why someone would want this assurance, and it sounds like a viable solution for Stern too, until they can hunt down the issue and bust out a solution to the ghosting problem. Lets say Stern sets aside $100 per game, based on a 50% reject rate and an estimate of $200 shipped for a playfield. If you file a claim in 12 months and can document it with pics, you'll get a "good" replacement playfield shipped for free. Obviously it is a hardship on the owner, who now needs to figure out how to do a playfield swap, but at least they will have a playfield to use when the time is right. Once Stern fixes the problem, their liability and need for the balance of these funds would practically go away. This would be a win / win solution in my opinion and as a buyer, it would give me some confidence to consider purchasing a new pinball form them. It might even reinvigorate Stern sales from slumping, as many collectors are holding off on a purchase until resolved. Hoping Stern will consider doing something like this and begins offering a 12 month playfield guarantee.

if ya think that looks bad, you should have seen the poor GOT.

While most prefer swapping populated playfields, because it can be done quickly and it fixes the issue 100%, I don't think Stern will agree to this approach because of the cost. Too many playfields are impacted and this could end up being equivalent to a costly auto recall. Instead, I believe they will eventually agree to send replacement playfields. You send them a pic and they send you a nonpopulated playfield. They can rationalize this fixes your problem, and it is a tidy way for them to move on. Say Stern ships out 500 playfields and says sorry - here you go. In spite of the fact you still need to swap it over, this would go a long way towards restoring consumer confidence. Some will put their playfield on wall, some in a closet until they sell their game, and a few may actually swap it in. Either way, Stern sending out a replacement playfield partially addresses the issue and pretty much restores their good will. At this point though, Stern is incommunicado and hasn't agreed to sh*t. So we'll have to stay tuned.

^^^ more than anything - this tells me is that Stern acknowledges the problem and they are taking it serious. Until now there has been no indication of either. There is still a long ways for this to play out and it can still end unsatisfactorily. First, the team of specialists will determine the cause (keep in mind this issue has been manifesting itself for months now and there is no solution at present). Next, potential remedies and costs will be assessed. Thirdly, Stern will develop a game plan for addressing complaints. Finally the plan will be put in motion.

Keep in mind that we are talking about how to address the issue after it has occurred to make the effected customers whole. However long it takes to figure out, Stern is continuing to crank out games with poor clearcoating. At least we know Stern is serious - question asked and answered.

Wonder if a rusty ball caused scratching or something. How about some pics AliciaC? Pinside wants to see this hot mess. Also provide build date / playfield date & #.

Seriously, when Vid post pics of ghosting on his new GBLE, you gotta believe. What's the pf and game dates? (fingers crossed that is not an Aug pf. That will shatter my already fragile belief that Stern will do right by its owners of ghosted playfields. It appears they don't give a sh*t right now).

That's a shame too, we all want GB, GOT or TWD, but many are canceling orders and others are holding back until Stern resolves this. Many of us are also waiting to see how Stern handles complaints of those already affected, until we act with our wallets. Don't support companies that can sell to their customers and when they return with a problem give them a good screwing and send them on their way. We are not there with Stern by any means. They always have stood by the products. But I don't honestly know if they made a single SMVEs that didn't have this problem. I can't see them running another 350 playfields and sending them to their customers).

very cool to use Stern as your case study.

Tonight's assignment - have them read Pinside to see what perspective people with a vested interest in Stern & pinball have. How many of them supported stringing Stern up? My guess is not many, yet we've had a few here. I'd just like to see them tarred and feathered until they resolve the issue and compensate the impacted Owners. The students might judge the structural and physical aspects of the insert issues as more of a cosmetic thing. This is where reading some of posts explain that the problems are real, they can be bad and sometimes get relly bad.

Also apllicable to your students is the legal perspective. Stern's warranty is a piece of swiss cheese - it does not recognize these issues as faulty so no remediation would be required. Instead, it is important to keep Stern's operating practices in perspective and to recognize that Stern has always stood behind their pinball machines and has gone way beyond the legal requirements to make things right for their customers. There is no reason to assume this time will be different.

There are no limits on how many premiums are made. If people want it, Stern will build it. Why order one if you are concerned about the insert issue? Cancel your premium order today and request your money back. They will be churning out GB pro and prem for years. Wait for Stern to fix the problem and then wait for them to run premiums thereafter, then buy one. It's hard having to wait but it is going to be a huge hassle to rectify the problem. You are creating an artificial issue by ordering first and hoping things get straightened out before shipping. That is a bass acwards approach carrying high levels of risk and low chances of reward. Think about it some

Unfortunately those gambling with a purchase should note that in the last 5 years, Stern has swapped populated playfields for damaged ones very few times. I doubt Stern will offer populated playfields as a solution (believing blank playfield is the most they will offer). Most sound as if getting a populated pf is a foregone conclusion. Beware, this has been a rare occurence by Stern. Heck they might not ever fess up and give you nada.

With all of these playfield issues, no response from distributer or manufacturer, and angry posts, I wonder if I should cancel my order?

fantastic you've heard back and have peace of mind it will get fixed. Even better is you know it will be a populated pf for swap. It sounds like you are on track to be taken care of.

What has me puzzled is why Stern is continuing to pump these out in spite of not having a fix. potentially every game Stern shipped with playfield dates of May thru mid Aug 2016, would fall under a similar arrangement, no? I get the feeling that you were serviced only after jumping through many hoops and corresponding directly with the manufacturer. But other stories report getting a big circle jerk from Stern.

So I ask myself, why Stern would continue to build and ship defective playfields, knowing they'd need a hot swap, unless they felt only a small percentage of people would complain? If they can ship 10 games with defective playfields, and only expect only one customer to notice and complain, it could be cost effective to keep shipping pins.

Well this is a start, at least. One customer promised a hot playfield swap.

Yeah mixed kpg with guy who said a distributer claimed to be able to get a populated playfield to swap, if customer had 3 or more defects. That one is harder to believe, since the biggest distributers are still getting the run around.

Using my earlier analogy - Stern is still shipping games with defects but it is hearing plenty of complaints. So far, for every ten defective games ships, it replaces zero. This appears to be a cost savings based strategy.

Replacing none to date would be palatable if Stern acknowledged these defects and promised to take care of its customers. This could be done with a general news release or email to impacted cuatomers. But absent any input from Stern to Distributer to Customer, we are left on Pinside to speculate.

Hope they stay that way after a few hundred quick games. Do you play test the games in your showroom or just check switches/lights/solenoids in test mode?

maybe it was ghosts that played it

Instead of releasing the next VE, Stern should delay it and dedicate a line to assembling playfields to feed the distributer swap model. They could have 500 or so playields to replace, and that will take months.

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Where's the Apology Stern? .... for inconveniencing most of your distributors and customers since April 2016, continuing today. Even if it takes a few more weeks to confirm a solution to the sinking inserts and clearcoat issues, all the machines you make and ship during that two weeks are going to customers and they will potentially be affected.

Stern was good to acknowledge the problem and announce a program through its distributors to resolve. But, for two or three months, customers were trying to resolve playfield issues with their distributors and with Stern, but were getting the royal circle-jerk. Some distributers were not getting anywhere with the manufacturer. Stern probably should apologize for the way it had handled those opportunities too.

Stern missed an opportunity to acknowledge the very people it has impacted and whom it hopes will continue to stay with them, as they continue to search for solutions. It is never too late to make a statement Gary. I think offering a heart-felt apology would be a decent thing to do.

well Stern is off GBLE for now and onto TWD. Time to start watching those playfields closely.

Well it's not rocket science and everybody does it these days. Shouldn't be hard to add some degree of common sense and bring Stern PR and marketing into the 21st century. I am betting they can and will do the right thing eventually - by acknowledging, apologizing and swapping/repopulating playfields. Time to get it out there Gary and put it in print. Give us a state of union about if you've fixed the problem and what it was.

But the point is these are not cosmetic flaws, these are structual; there is a reason Stern is replacing the playfields. If you added a step where Stern strips the old pf and reassembles onto a new fixed pf, and then builds and sells the remanufactured games for 25% off after disposing of the bad playfield, I would be onboard that train. (bad playfield, bad bad playfield)

Better yet, Stern can build and stockpile these kits based on the number of claims they receive. So when mine shows up, they can do a visual inspection and signoff and ship the new drop-in pf on the same day. This scenario it would typcally take 2 days shipping, 1 day return/issue, and 2 days return shipping. A one week turnaround, based on Stern building and stockpiling inventory would be the best solution. A win - win - win for all parties.

Caution - Stern has not announced any program yet and reports we have heard about have implied 2 to 4 week turnaround tomes. That tells me Stern is planning to rebuild your game, aka transfer parts from your old to your new, rather than shipping one sitting in inventory. As a result the time spent inhouse will increase from 1 day to 1 week and the process is a little more muddled. We'll see how this shakes out.

Zonker?

Grab your four leaf clover & lucky rabbits's foot and buy a lotto ticket tonight. You sir are a Winner!

Playfields have not been fixed, this according to Stern three weeks ago, and they haven't announced a resolution since. If you don't wish to gamble $6k / $8k /$10k / $12k / $15k on a new Stern with possible clearcoat issues, put your money away in the sock drawer and walk away until the end of 2016 to insure all ghosts have been busted.

I'd be more concerned about excessive bubbles occurring on some inserts, making them look crappy. That may have been a few bad batches of inserts or it may be still be a valid concern, but you don't want that, and Stern won't acknowledge it is even an issue. Anyways you asked for a status on Stern's manufacturing and opinion on buying new today, and now you have it.

It was in video from a recent show. Only a small percentage of games have issues, what is your tolerance for this risk? If 5% of playfields were having issues, would that be too much? IDK the real number, but consider your personal level. I don't doubt the sincerity of folks passing on stories that Churchill is back in place making all Stern's playfields and that now they are going to rock. But we need to verify this is the case and that there aren't new issues. Short of Stern publically acknowledging the problem is gone, I require a month or so of no reported issues on Pinside. If you decide to go ahead with your purchase, chances are you'll be fine. If you do get a bad one, hope it is more than marginally bad. If you can discern three defects in your playfield (spelling and grammar excluded) , Stern will take care of you and replace it - so no worries there.

Playfield swap program starts in January. See, even Stern is waiting until end of year to see if the problems are fixed I suggest putting your new Stern money into a lockbox and reopening it after January 1. Found a link to Gary speaking publically at Expo about playfield ghosting at 7 min mark.

Played a GB pro on location last week at a place with 15 games in pristine condition and all were well maintained. All worked 100% except GB and scored 1.3B, with Slimer not registering. Sucks that all Slimer did was hover in front of ramp. This is a big problem and reinforces my decision to hold off considering GB pro for a lot longer. I understand and expect downtime, even broke 2 machines while there. But Slimer was known to break right out of the gate and still hasn't been fixed right.

wtf was ghosting issue never resolved? Stern QC on GB courtesy of Jody Dankberg beginning at 11:03 mark.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=UR2WflOczwU

Pretty close, try one title earlier. Stern playfield ghosting issues began on GOT. That game also experienced the left orbit problem. I remember listening to a video where Gary or George said they found and fixed the problem on GB. It shouldn't be reappearing.

Midway-Man, sometimes date stamp is on the playfield under apron if not on the edge. Sometimes a date sticker is used. Can you take some pics? The one systemic problem prior to that involved printing Star Trek playfields and keeping the colors correct.