Have to kind of disagree with you mate. I don't think the market has changed in Stern's mind, just the home user's. If the ghosting happened on a sited game, would the operator pull it from the line up? Would the op try to fix it? Would the op say something to Stern, may be but I doubt.

Is this an excuse for a poorly made pf....no....but nowhere did I read from Stern that they are a retail, end user outlet, collectors just have the opportunity to buy. I worked in engineering and a home user could buy but didn't get better than commercial warranties nor preferential treatment for claims and quality issues. I hope I'm looked after and will use all avenues to get a resolution to my liking, but still have the realization I could be disappointed. Atm I'm loving the game and the ghosting I have does not concern me but will evaluate well before the end of the warranty period.

Good to hear, we may require you to champion the cause for us. Lets see how it pans out in the next month or so.

I agree, its no big deal. This is why I believe pinball is not really designed for home ownership. Pinball from any manufacturer is trouble and they break continually. If you want a game that's trouble free, then play pinball on a console. It is not a hobby for the faint hearted that's for sure.

True. Now my gb has had over 2000 games played, no coil locks, no centre drains, no switch problems, no ramp issues, no major airballs, no this game is too hard, no hissy fits, yes ghosting. So based on my experience I can declare that stern products are 100% mechanically and electrically fault free. Now we know this is not the case, but people here are making out like this is an inferior product based on how many people? I don't know the number, does anyone really? And how many units sold? Poll all the tz owners and ops from release date to this very day and see how a Bally game stacks up. What about the Bally SS drop target bricking issue that was never really sorted out?? I've had many tz issues, but consider all manageable with my tech knowledge and came into this hobby knowing the risks.

These things in reality are not designed or built to high tolerances and by design pretty mediocre with what we have available today. Would you buy a car with such technology and workmanship?

What I was basically eluding to is, don't go into pinball ownership if you like living in the ideal world because it ain't gonna happen. If you're going to rely on reliability, you're misguided, if you're going to rely on a tech, then its going to cost you a fortune and/or frustrate the hell out of you. Most problems I have read here are part and parcel of pinball, the major ones are the far and few and do not even make up a sizable minority in the scheme of things

You are correct, but the only way to stop this, of it is the case, is for consumers to stop buying the product. I hate Apple, no ipads or iphones since number 2 in my household.

But point take thanks

I don't think there is a correct time frame, but please keep us posted on how you go in the courts. You starting may help others to follow suit.

What was the outcome as I didn't see or hear of this in Oz. Must have made the news but missed it.

Thanks interesting

Sorry am I missing something here? Apart from anyone who has an 'unplayable' game what is the big deal about the wait? Now if the replacement plan is a sham ok but I'm looking at it more as an opportunity to play the death out of mine and then have a mint game again once the novelty has worn off. Even if you've been given months to live, you still can play. I'm picturing grown men watching a ball go around a playfield and when it passes a ghosted insert raising their arms and walking away. Are the ghosted inserts diverting the natural path of the ball? Does it stop scoring or completing modes? Again am I missing something here.

Oh I forgot to mention. I read on pinside complaints of stern sending out dud replacements. Could the delay be that they wanted to ensure the problem is solved? Is it solved? No lets send out numerous pfs NOW and waste my time. The next gripe if and when they are sent out will be, its not easy replacing these things or they have not been play tested an switches don't work. Fellas I can see this coming a mile away. Now lets hear from REAL ghostbusters owners only

Car analogy, I wouldn't care less seeing the car is being replaced, I'd be doing long road trips and enjoying the car to the max. Selling the game, like I said extraneous circumstances, ok. Now are most ghosted pf owners selling, I don't think so. Stern aren't innocent here, but I won't base my business strategies/actions on the few but rather to get the majority off my back. Now has a solution been found re pf, none of you know I'm betting.

Hmmmmm, finally I got someone to say it. Now why did you not complain to AM manufacturing direct or better the shipping company. Sue them. No because you paid your money to a dealer who does make some profit for the pleasure of selling you a car. So why are people trying to deal or go the manufacturer and not as you guys call them distros. Let me guess these guys just like giving these games away for zero return. Has anyone suggested to their distro, 'I want my money back or I sue YOU'? I am sure these guys don't have as deep pockets or patience as stern. Send a distro or two to the wall or close to it and see if they continue to not go into bat for you. But I forgot they're nice guys and they have passed on your photos to stern and those bastards are ignoring them. GREAT EXCUSE and ok to many here. Oh where did all the post gb's with ghosting come from? Let me guess stern sold them direct as your nice distros refused to take your money....right??? Maybe Gary didn't know of the problem until last week too.

So has anyone, in writing, actually put a request to their distro on what will appease the deal and in what time frame? If not, why not?

Maybe a few worried distros might get some action going a little quicker than bitching here and think Stern are reading 5000+ posts.

Sorry if I have offended those really concerned gb owners but I truely believe a lot of grand standing is being done by a few that have no intent going Stern or their distro. Just like water, why do you not go the path of least resistance?

But the again what do I know.

Also to the photos from jjp etc with faults, didn't medievals have a ghosting problem way back when? Is there anyone here with one will to sell me one for a few less than what I see them going for?

My point, a great title will command a good price no matter what in this hobby. A pristine example obviously will command even more.

Please elaborate on this loss. $500 from what? Thanks

A $500 drop is fair for a used game in my opinion but I respect yours. I generally equate the pleasure of unboxing, being first to play it, bragging rights, etc etc etc as the reason you pay a premium in the first place regardless of LE/prem or pro and generally devalues the product and has a real dollar value. Then the time and amount of play/wear and tear depreciates it further. There is no book of rules that says LE equal money spinner. I could buy a metallica LE just prior to the gb release for $2000 less in my country and we tend to pay premium dollars.

Like I said I accept your view but my thoughts is $500 for 6 months or so fun, not having to go to a pizza parlour or such whenever you want to play one is very good value. But that's me and I understand this could be a lone or minority view point. Thanks for your reply though.

Interested to know what you think a gble would have been worth without ghosting and the ghosting fiasco never happened?

I'm very interested to know, does anyone know of a stern le that is worth/sold for more than its original price once all the initial hype has diminished? Maybe this is a way to invest outside of the property/stock market port folios which are risky in themselves.

Yeah I'm hearing that about tron. The others I'm seeing prices more reflecting current nib pricing eventhough acdc etc are no longer available. But nib metallica prem is about $10500 in my money and the used LE sold for $9200. It was about $9000 new so in this case it sold for more but replacement cost nib today is much more. Again saw bible acdc here went for 12500 and new le titles are $12500.

Atm I am very concerned about the slow progress of the petition. By reading the comments here, people were vocal the masses are effected and a riot was eminent. Why am I concerned, if you guys don't pull together in some semblance of unity in a hurry, Stern might even pull the trigger on this imaginary pf swap program. Then I'll be pissed. And please guys, use your whole name, not Jerry G, so hopefully Stern can see you are serious by putting your name to it, or are these just appearing in the comments section and real names are actually on the petition. Btw Good luck

Fair point

Life's a lottery but best you don't purchase.