(Topic ID: 161795)

Hey Stern! Are you serious?

By mayuh

7 years ago


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#351 7 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Tom Waits said it best: "the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."

......And the unhappy customers watch as the company goes out of business.

#631 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

There are over 600+ pinball machines in a 35 mile square area here, routed.
The new time is "barcade" not arcade, and they are thriving.
There are also three "museums", not counting anything in California, with between 30-80 machines each.
It's HUGE.
The highest level of independent venues since 1994.
Operators returned to the market in late 2009 and are rapidly going again, fast.
The strongest spike has occurred 2010 through 2015.
This has occurred all over the country and overseas.
Alexandria, VA (your location) coincided with Baltimore on "Pinball Locations" shows over 220+ machines. If it's outdated, so be it, but it gives a baseline to at least go look. I live on the west coast, so I cannot validate. However, I would not call your location a "dead zone". Feel free to play some pinball out in the wild, if you have time. I generally don't, right now.
There are so many misconceptions about the realities of the market it just spins into a maelstrom of a Wizard of Oz tornado.
There are a lot of people laughing right now watching these posts on PinSide.
Stern is reading these posts.
They should be concerned, and looking into issues regarding playfield quality, again, immediately.
The majority of sales of pro models from sales remain in operators hands.
Part of what you hearing is the Stern advertising campaign to promote sales.
Stern was TARGETING private ownership, they are not stupid, as they saw the potential.
They don't need to do that for operators, who will buy the game if they feel it worthwhile for income.
They make their own assessment based on experience.
Stern is not going to turn around and $#@! on operators, that have always been a mainstay.
There is a reason I buy predominantly BLY/WMS/GTB/AGC/ZAC games.
When Stern cuts corners, I don't buy the machine, and watch.
I buy used machines for a reason, I have played them, I know what can go wrong at that point, and teething issues have been fixed (or not).
Rarely now I buy NIB, such as the case as MET, but I waited 3 years.
It is called being a "smart shopper".
I almost pulled the trigger on a NIB ST Premium (at a proper price), but I decided to buy another BLY game instead.
This has nothing to do with clearcoat or construction quality, just acceptance that availability of new games is easier to find than old ones.
You have to know what you want.

Alexandria is not reasonably close to Baltimore.
I live about 35 minutes from DC but I would not go there to play pinball in a barcade, especially since there typically is nowhere to park and traffic is often miserable. Baltimore would be about an hour and 15 minutes and also likely would still present the parking problem.
Until there are pinball locations in the suburbs pinball is primarily a HUO thing to me.

#787 7 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

I wonder what "damage" this topic has done so far. It has stopped me from buying a second hand GB (thus avoiding any warranty issues), it has caused a user to quit his account on pinside, and I think a few ppl also cancelled their NIB order?

This thread causing short term damage by making Stern aware and giving them the motivation to correct their problems will make them a better company if they act accordingly.

#1086 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I service LEs on route all the time.
No lack of them earning around here.

In Yemen?
Do they use human heads on giant sized pinball tables?

#1235 7 years ago
Quoted from Star_Gazer:

After 5,000 plays your playfield will looks like this:

I noticed that whitewood did not have the guide for the captive ball that is bending in the shipped games.

#1238 7 years ago
Quoted from someoneelse:

Most likely because it doesn't have captive ball at all there. Different old design.

Yep. That is what I am referring to and thus the bar for the captive ball likely was a last minute decision that was not tested enough.

3 weeks later
#1417 7 years ago
Quoted from mayuh:

I couldn't care less about Sterns warranty. It just does not matter in the least significant way. All that matters is Austrian Consumer laws for goods that are sold here. The contract is between two Austrian parties.
Even if someone in a hole in the ground on some remote location has a distributor here, the product needs to meet the standards and the warranty here . It's the local seller's responsiblity to make sure it'll work for him. Either sell it and be liable or just don't. If I'd like to buy it, I buy it. It's the sellers fault, not mine.

"It just doesn't matter" Bill Murray (1979)

#1591 7 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

This thread sucks

Yes, it sucks that Stern has changed the way they were doing things thus necessitating the thread.

-1
#1592 7 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

After 32 pages, I get the felling that Yes, stern is serious.

Serious about making money now rather than later?

-1
#1691 7 years ago
Quoted from PeterG:

Is it just bad wood?

LSD effects?

#1835 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I wonder how many people have actually received a populated play field over the insert ghosting.
Those that have screamed the loudest I'm sure.

I don't think they can send replacement populated playfields until they figure out how to produce good non-ghosting playfields.
Maybe they will have to resort to having Churchill or Mirco make them for them?

Until they start selling games without ghosting inserts like they used to do then I am not considering any NIB Sterns.

#1867 7 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

I believe that Stern will do nothing and people will continue to buy games from them. Memories are short and once the next game comes out and people go batshit over it all will be forgotten. " At this point what does it matter? "

Maybe some will, but many will not buy because they are not willing to accept the playfield problems and the loss of sales in conjunction with moving to a bigger and likely more expensive factory has to sting.

#1871 7 years ago

I believe some have said the cost of a playfield for Stern is around $200. Stern could swap the defective populated playfields with good populated playfields once they have the issue resolved. Then they could sell the defective playfields for $200 as wall hangers. I would buy one for $200.

#1946 7 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Read my post above.
Understand playfield blanks.
It is not just a "sheet of plywood".
Understand playfield construction.
Understand pinball history.
Same materials, same process, same equipment.
The presses used to validate and recheck modern playfield insert installation were made for GTB in the 1950s, and owned by Stern now. The same goes for the router cutters at Churchill which were made in the late 1940s!
What about the ink screen presses that are used for mass PF production?
Those are the same as well.
Most of this equipment has not been made in over 50 years due to market demand for pinball in general, and the extreme durability of construction.
If people don't believe it call Churchhill, and see if Mr. Duba will answer the question directly.
Playfield inserts do chip prematurely based on poor installations or improper drying after a clear coat is applied. If people do not understand the industry, do not speculate.
I have a pretty good idea what went wrong here now, and it was not directly Stern's fault, but they do have the responsibility. Part was material prep, another was timing of insert installation, and finally the prep and press of playfields prior to CC. CC mismix is another potential factor here. The race to get GB production moving exasperated some of the problems. A person that has seen production of PFs knows some of the pitfalls I am describing.
New owners paid the price.

It is not just GB games. SMVE, Kiss, and GOT also have some ghosting happening in particular games. Something about their playfield manufacturing changed around the time the Kiss playfields were produced. When I first saw Stern Kiss in person I was blown away by the clearcoat shine, it was obvious something had changed.

#1958 7 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Does SMVE airball as much as GB?

SM typically is not much of an airball game by design. Even Sandman has the plastic above it which stops airballs.

#2009 7 years ago

Hey Stern, ghosting inserts does not equal dimpling.

#2087 7 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

$1000 for a day's work... I'm not in the right professsion.

Is it really only one day's work? I would have thought it could take around 30 to 40 hours.

#2504 7 years ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

I'm away at the moment, but I'll be back soon. I won't tell you what I'll do first, but the second thing I'll do is take off my boots. The third thing will be play pinball.

You forgot hug the children.

Thank you for your service. Keep safe!

2 months later
#4580 7 years ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

So if all play field issues are now resolved, why wouldn't Stern say all play field issues are now resolved?

Liability. They likely want to be able to pick and choose which people's games they fix based on the degree of ghosting and clearcoat failure.

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