yeah they could a LOT better.
hey, make that 94 pages. : P

is there a certain criteria to meet, in order to be accepted for a playfield swap ? did someone say 3 ghosted inserts?...

what about 1 ghosted insert, and a chipped shooter lane ?. no dice?

I wonder if the program covers bubbled inserts? Almost all the colored jeweled inserts on my game have this. No ghosting though...

Rob

20160915_225208 (resized).jpg

Let us know if that counts

this is insane. the machine is over hyped & priced. case closed. were they smoking crack when they thought $10k+ was reasonable for a re-themed machine? if I were in his shoes I'd probably be extra critical of stern in the future.

on another note who does Sterns marketing?

think not, as it was already explained before (CPR site i think), this bubbled are "normal"

on my 1st GB, i got some ghosting but NO bubbled
on my 2nd one, i got NO ghosting but lots of bubbled inserts... :/

I would just call your distributor that you are not satisfied with the quality. You must let them know that this is not ok, and you will not accept this quality. I would call Stern as well. Just to be sure.

As said above, go to the CPR website and there is a lot of playfield documentation. You will see the bubbling you mention is perfectly normal. Now if you are getting blisters that chip off, then you are talking a different thing....but bubbling or jeweling is normal.

At least Stern made 10k by xmas a reality

I'm getting a lot of bubbling or jeweling on arrow inserts on a Kiss LE. I find it hard to believe that this is normal. It looks like crap and after a $8,000 purchase I would hope they get this issue resolved.

I think you can give up on that one. Between that and the horns... its probably never going to happen. I asked Lyman about their original ideas for these years ago and he didn't seem to really mind that these elements just never made it into the game. They had ideas and they didn't just come to be.

While there are potentials there, and inserts that do effectively nothing.. I don't think we need to worry about calling AC/DC unfinished.. its complete enough of a game elsewhere. Given all the other games that are far more exposed... I doubt Lyman will revisit AC/DC. He'd done the scoring tweaks and that seems to be it.

AC/DC is probably the most complete stern game in resent years. In fact some would argue, it has been the single game that has rescued them up from what would otherwise have been obscurity ( post early 2000's)
I would say to you stern.... what makes the good games you have made great.
IMHO the games that you have made that are crap lack passion at the most basic level. I know passion and talent cost money and the bottom line is the bottom line ..... man maybe you could give some young gun a chance or do a reality show for pinheads to design the best pin or something. The show itself if it covered the costs would be worth it. I will say this, if you stay on the same path you are doomed.

The path of selling more machines in the last 2 years than all other manufacturers have in the past 5 years combined?

A hard road to travel indeed.

Tron
Metallica
Walking Dead
... all seem pretty complete to me.

"Passion for pinball", by itself, is highly overrated. For example, Stern would never hire someone like John Popadiuk.

You have to have passion, talent, a relevant core skill set, an ability to work with others, and a proven track record for getting things done. One of the best ways to find people like that is by searching within the modding community.

Someone like Eric Priepke (aka "epthegeek" here on Pinside) fits that bill to a T and would add a lot of value in the Stern organization. For those of you who don't know Eric, he developed the Cactus Canyon Continued code using P-ROC, he colored the Iron Man ROM for Randy Perlow at ColorDMD, and he is developing a custom, HD re-write of the entire Iron Man code on P-ROC, which was just demoed in beta form at EXPO.

Iron Man HD Beta:

To be frank, if Eric was making mods for the video gaming industry instead of the pinball hobby, Gabe Newell, the billionaire Co-Founder and CEO of Valve Corporation, would have already hired him. Many of Valve's current employees were well-known modders in the video gaming community before being recruited by Gabe.

George Gomez should be thinking like Gabe Newell and reaching out to Eric Priepke with a job offer. JMHO.

More of Eric's videos can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/epthegeek/videos

Has anyone else noticed that he says they have changed their process a little bit (7:48) and then goes on to say they have been doing the same thing for 30 years and nothing has changed? Which one is it?

As I said, go to the CPR website. They have pictures of what can be expected and why. If yours is different, then you may need to address it with your distributor.

Stern isn't dumb, they probably realize it's hard to sell pins to route guys who still have great looking money making pins on route from 20 years ago. If they start making machines that fall apart faster ops will be forced to buy their new pins. I hope this is not the case here but who knows?

This may have been covered in one of the other 93 pages, and I didn't see it, but if you buy a used game and it has or develops PF issues would Stern get you a new PF or is it for original owners only? Do they require a receipt?

I have been thinking of getting some of the newer Stern titles (new or used), in particular GB, but this whole thing has me worried.

When I heard it... I heard that he was "surprised" they were having issues because they hadn't changed anything.
Now due to the issues; they are making changes.

Who really knows.

How about a new update here!

I haven't seen that discussed on here that I can remember but I can say this. I remember someone posting warranty info for a Stern machine and there was a disclaimer about the warranty only being valid for the original purchaser. But that doesn't mean that Stern won't help you. It just seems that they don't HAVE to help you if you are a buying a used machine. I think I'd buy a new one or call Stern first and feel them out on how they'd handle something like this. I emailed them about my playfield issues two months ago today and I haven't received any kind of acknowledgement from them so email may not be the best way to reach them. I'm following this thread and waiting til others here more info on the program before I start pestering them. I figure they are keeping a tight lip on it because they don't have the program ironed out or ready to launch yet.

But on a positive note, GB is a great game. It's worth getting in my opinion just maybe not right now until they get these playfield issues fixed.

Quoting myself here. Hah. I found the exact verbiage for the warranty that was posted:

STERN PINBALL INC. SELLER WARRANTS ONLY TO THE INITIAL PURCHASER OF ITS
PRODUCTS THAT THE ITEMS LISTED BELOW ARE FREE FROM DEFECTS IN MATERIAL
AND WORKMANSHIP UNDER NORMAL USE AND SERVICE FOR THE WARRANTY PERIOD
SPECIFIED; WARRANTY PERIODS ARE EFFECTIVE FROM THE INITIAL DATE OF SHIPMENT
FROM SELLER TO DISTRIBUTOR.

But now that I'm re-reading it I'm thinking that we might not be viewed as the initial purchaser of the machine since we all purchase from re-sellers. So maybe there's not as much to be worried about in that wording. I'm not an attorney so I don't know. Maybe someone else can be of more help?

Played this game at Expo.
This is what Stern games should have been for many years now.
Stunning work.

i think someone needs to clarify that.
so the distributor can sit on a NIB for months, for whatever reasons. sell it to a customer, then no warranty ?. a lot of warranty is 90 days yes? WTF is that shiete.

just to add to the tracking info... PF build date April 29, cabinet date April 09 (yes, those are backwards) one of the first 200 pros with the misspelling.

no ghosting and no general clearcoat problems but chipping has started behind the Scolari Bros drop targets; you can see where it's started in the pic but it's more than what it shows. a couple of Cliffy's made for single drop targets would solve this but i don't think anyone makes something like that.

oh, and as another note, on location with 6k+ plays.

ghostbusters chipping (resized).jpg

Mine has started there also..

20161019_062817 (resized).jpg

Assuming this is "not covered", Would UV hardening Clear Gel be a good preventive measure?

Cliff Rinear makes a Cliffy protector for a single drop target. It's used on the Vengeance drop target on Star Trek. Here's the link to his website. You can reach out to him via email to order direct.

http://www.passionforpinball.com/

well, seems quite logical with 6k+ games on it
these 2 places behind targets are right in the middle of the PF, lots of runs there
its not, as told for example, as the target in START TREK

6000 plays later...

Yeah might not be a bad idea to put in a call to them to feel them out before doing anything. Best bet would be to hold off until they get the PF issues fixed. Your warranty quote in the other thread does raise some questions, like who is considered the "initial purchaser" of the game, the distributor or game owner? I think it's a bunch of crap the warranty starts as soon as the game is shipped from Stern, car manufacturers certainly don't do that, the warranty starts the day the original owner takes possession of the car, not the day the car shipped from the manufacturing facility. I think Stern would still help you out, but creates a loop hole for them not to honor the warranty if they don't want to by the way I read it and that is very concerning with all of the current PF issues

Got to "cover" my ass with anything I say!
Feel like a Politician today!

You can generally find the warranty on the last page of the manual. GB is on page 53.

GhostbustersLEmanualPg53 (resized).jpg

Here it is clearer. I think the problem is the warranty says it covers nothing but when people hear someone else's problem was covered but theirs wasn't it makes them mad. The key is consistency and their warranty has zero consistency.

IMG_2142 (resized).PNG

well, shoot, i had been looking at his "universal" protectors... i'll e-mail him and see if he can sell just a couple of them outside of a kit (probably could use one for my ST Pro as well which already has the kickout protector.) he came through for me when none of his vendors had ramp protectors for my PF and i have faith that he will again.

other than that chipping my GB playfield has held up pretty well. it was one of several GB Pros sold through Marco at the NW Pinball and Arcade Show in June and came straight from the factory; maybe they spent a bit more time going over the games that were headed out for public display.

and yeah, GB has been earning well on location. it's gonna take 18k plays for it to pay for itself so it's about a third of the way there already.

Happy to help.

Cliff makes things on request, occasionally, so it never hurts to ask him if there is a protector needed. He is a real asset to this hobby, but many people don't know that he sells direct, so I always try to give him a shout out when an appropriate opportunity arises.

I think I am going to buy a NIB GB pro. Is there a certain build date or after that I should look for to have the best chance of not getting one with a defective playfield?

if you want to believe, its 8 september...

Ghosting

I just had the opportunity to play a brand new GB Premium this weekend. It was put straight into public play after being set up. I talked to the owner about the playfield issues, and he said the playfield date was October. I also noticed and verified that it had the new thin PET-G playfield protector installed. It probably had over 100 plays by the time I got there to check it out. The Super Jackpot had ghosting. I came back the next day to check again, I estimate 100+ plays later, and now Add A Ball and Tobin's Spirit Guide had also ghosted significantly. I will add the pics I took later.

Playfield Protector thoughts

Obviously, the protector did nothing to prevent ghosting. Some other thoughts on the protector... Curiously, contrary to what I've heard, it slightly dulls the sheen of the new playfield. The playfield looked glossier at the exposed edges. I did not notice any difference in play physics. The game played fast and there were tons of air balls, but that seems to be standard on GB. I did not notice any shifting of the protector. The owner hoped it would protect from dimpling, and looking closely, it did probably help a little: the dimpling looked less pronounced then on the new, unprotected ST Premium I recently acquired.

GB Premium thoughts

A shout out and big thanks to the owner for putting it out in public, I really enjoyed playing it. I did think it was more fun than the pro. I was looking forward to see the Pepper's ghost effect, but was underwhelmed by that. The right lower "270-degree" ramp (not sure what folks are calling it) seems to have been a compromise to the original design. I probably played close to 20 games and many seemingly good shots would almost make it up, but come right back down. I wonder if that's common and if it can be tuned, I think I only hit it twice. The lane guide jumping is as annoying as I've heard. The scoop shot SDTM about 50% of the time, but fortunately the ball save helps. I hadn't heard the screaming lady (librarian?) when I played the pro before, and that was impressive! With the flipper gap and outlane hopping, the game is definitely more challenging than most, making for some lame-scoring games. But I still had fun, scoring 200m+ a few times, and getting on a roll for 750m one game. Thumbs up from me.

No one really knows yet. The silence from stern is deafening.

Aw crap, some one better tell chambahz to change his dates again. If they are ghosting on OCT builds then I bet those BM66 builds are not going to be all that great as well.

Dang, sorry to hear that. Was really hoping they'd resolved that issue.

Are you sure the playfield date was in October?

My PF date is sept 26 and it's perfect!! I'd like to see pics of bad ones before saying that there is still issues.

Unfortunate. I have had a premium paid in full since May, and have been watching these threads with interest as I go back and forth between canceling it or not. Stern's lack of transparency throughout - and yes, I have asked my distributor - coupled with the blatant cash grab on the new batman game has really lowered my opinion of them as a company. $6300+ is an awful lot of money to spend on something without some form of statement by the company. I know that some people have allegedly gotten calls from Stern indicating they'd be taken care of, but it seems as though simply providing information in a written statement to their distributors so they could answer the questions their customers have would take less effort and also simply be the proper thing to do.

Sorry for the rant. I look forward to seeing the pictures mentioned as well.

The owner was well informed about it, so I'm sure he got that date right. I'll check in with him, see if he wants to take a snap of that.

Oh yeah, forgot the magna slings. The most noticeable thing about them, is that most of the time they're not on, and sometimes you're expecting a shot coming off like a traditional sling but there's just a dead bounce. I'm not sure I like it with them off that much. When they're on, they can mimic traditional slings pretty well. They do also create some cool effects, especially during multi-ball, flinging balls up for example, but also had some drain straight down.

I wouldnt get too bummed out. He says Oct but with out pics who really knows. I tend to not believe someone who gives a month when everyone on here is giving specific dates with pictures. Not dig on High Voltage cause he is getting that info from the owner of the machine. For all we know the owner is looking on the cabinet date or something.

I played the same game at the Portland Expo, and experienced all the same flaws you did ...stdm from the kickout, airball city, cheap 10-mile gap. Interesting that you gave it a thumbs-up. I think people are still swooning over the theme and art. I've played enough GB Pros, Prems and LEs to conclude that it's a poorly designed game with too many things destroying the fun factor. On top of that, I saw 2 Premiums this weekend with ghosting inserts. I've waffled enough - done waffling! I cancelled my order...I'm done with Ghostbusters. To celebrate, I had some epic waffles in Portland for breakfast.

image (resized).jpeg

Watching this closely. ...

I said hi to Ben, and he mentioned you were around. Is that your hotel breakfast? Where did you stay? I always look for full buffet to fuel up for the show. Oxford Suites had decent buffet and wasn't too far.

I'd cancel too, risk still seems high, and criteria isn't clear whether you'll be helped or not. There are some alienating flaws in the game for sure, and losing some of the traditional premium features, I wouldn't be a buyer myself either. I still gave it a thumbs up though for pure fun. I guess I was able to overlook the flaws and enjoy the light show, audio package, dmd animations... all fun. The topper though, seemed kind of Fisher Price to me. They need some old school strobing effect in those, not standard LEDs.

how many good machines did they make compared to the number of bad? I wonder if we have a witch hunt personality here on pinside where a bad apple spoils the bunch with regard to the perception of these issues... I think the consensus is that if Stern shared ANY info it could help to stop the speculation going on.

I there is a pattern.