Never said it was normal? Just saying i get alot of fast throwbacks from sparky magnet straight down the middle that im sure bounce off that edge very hard and why its happening so fast on met. . Unfortunately I also dont think stern will do anything unless it starts chipping in pieces up to the artwork like some of the gb pins have had happen . Same as shooter lane chipping as i dont think they will do anything about that eaither unfortunately. Hopefully all this gets figured out soon.

Yeah you have a good point about hard shots straight down the middle banging into the outhole... only machine I have that does that now and then is TWD and it's too new (4 months) to show any wear there yet.

I'm afraid you're probably right also about Stern not doing anything for shooter lane and the outhole issues ("outhole" just sounds wrong... but "ball drain" sounds even worse) lol

They sadly seem to have bigger issues to deal with right now.

The larger flipper gap will obviously alllow more hard sdtm drains . Possibly causing the drain hole chipping clear and artwork.

Heres 6 of my pins drain area ... ranging from b/w to brand new sterns no particular order. All have mylar now and a few from day one 20160826_004602 (resized).jpg20160826_004417 (resized).jpg20160826_004329 (resized).jpg20160826_004201 (resized).jpg20160826_004115 (resized).jpg20160826_003954 (resized).jpg

Sure but this is also happening on new Met's and they've been making that game for a while now. Never seemed to be an issue until now.

It may indeed be Stern finally making their own PF's and having growing pains. There doesn't seem to be any other companies logo stamped on the side like before. So... hmmm?

Me too, never ever been so happy with cancelling a buy of any sorts.

Meet Sterns newest pinball tech.

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Maybe but who knows. Think of every possible thing that could need a mass update and the play field is the worst. If one of the boards in the head had a defect, just shipping out the new boards would be cake. Now if they didn't want to eat the cost of all those bad play fields and said order the next set with the fix in, use these up? Bad move in my opinion, but maybe something like that happened?

Edit now I see the chip

So we can now officially say they have not fixed the issue. Brilliant

From what I can tell they are not making GBLE right now so hopefully when they start running them again a fix will be in place.

Wow, looks like you got one of the crappers Flato. Hard to understand wtf is going on.

It seems like 1/2 are ok and the other 1/2 have various issues.

Sorry man.

Thats really bad. What did Stern say?

This is getting old, how many times have we felt they've restarted production with the fixed playfield?

well Stern is off GBLE for now and onto TWD. Time to start watching those playfields closely.

A comment I will make on this situation that I'm not sure anyone has considered. If Stern really has ended their relationship with the company that used to make their playfields and there is a new company making them this situation may not be fixable in the short term. At all. Contractually they may be stuck with the new folks, and as far as reviving the old relationship now that whomever that is knows they have them "on the hook" and would likely now want more money per piece than Gary would be willing to pay. Lots of folks here seem to think this is as simple as Stern sending pictures and just telling them to do it right, but in fact that first company probably has proprietary knowledge on making these things correctly that they will have no interest in sharing with the new company that has stolen their business. Welcome to supplier relationships 101 where the only real losers are the end consumers.

Nothing. I talked to my distributed and sent pics. Still waiting to hear anything back.

Still don't see it on the We came we saw, but you are right about the rest. what a mess.....I had hoped they had figured out the issue. There has to be more than one manufacturer doing these, or they are getting some really inconsistent materials. Some are just great, and others are just crap. Sorry man.

Somebody call wms

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I just called for you, WMS said you should have called earlier, your warrany for Drac expired a week ago!!

Did that start after 100 plays or 40k?

What's the point of your post, that 25 year old Williams games with hundreds of thousands of plays have these types of issues? Because I would expect them to at this point if not much more so. Anyone else with issues on brand new games twice as expensive after just a few hundred plays has serious problems, so your post just bolsters the point. So thanks!

just being snarky. CCC stamped on the side of the PF

I will go back and hide in the tech forum again.

It also proves that ghosting can lead to chipping and that this is a big issue.

If you assume ghosting was a problem when Dracula was brand new; otherwise it's just expected wear and tear on a game that has lasted n-fold as long as any Williams engineer would ever imagine.

We don't really know that they ever really stopped properly. It's just relayed stuff that takes on a life of its own.

nothing said, communicated or anything. at least an acknowledgement of some sort.

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Any one have "safe" dates some what narrowed down on MET, SMVE, or other newer sterns. I know it seems that GB is when the vast majority of problems hit but would be nice to have an idea of what older pins like MET to avoid after a certain manufacturing date!

This Flippin Podcast (TFP) newest episode #29 addresses the way Stern has handled this from a PR perspective and I agree with some of the points made. This playfield problem clearly exists. Admitting they are aware of the problem doesn't compel them to replace everyone's game. Maybe they are worried about liability. Okay, I get that. Paraphrasing TFP (edited from TPF), it simply acknowledges their customers and shows publicly that they care. A few private emails from Gary Stern is great for those who receive them, but not so much for the rest of the customer base. Why not a statement from Stern on FB to all customers? Be it to their actual customers, the distributors or the end customers, operators and collectors.

I'm definitely in the camp of order cancelled and waiting to hear officially what the issue was and how it's been resolved. I would not buy a used or NIB Stern made in 2016 at his point. Ghostbusters is an amazing game, please talk to us Stern.

Texas Pinball Festival in a nutshell?

Just making sure it gets read ...

If you ask me this "PROGRAM" is nonsense and does nothing to restore confidence in purchasing right now. A matter of fact I think their is not really a program as some on here have talked to distributors who know nothing about it or claim not to. If there is a program then it should be publicly announced or definitely should have been implemented by Stern to all of their distributors so the consumers would not have to call their distributors out on this. It is ridiculous to me that any consumer should have to inform a distributor about any kind of program...comical.
It seems more of a monetary protection program for Stern then a program to stand behind their product. Yes the squeaky wheel or if you create a voiced public outcry will probably get a good resolution but a lot of people don't like to work and put in phone or email time to just get a good resolution. A few phone calls by Gary to me was just to calm some of the people on this forum as they were raising valid concerns...Gary calls them and calms them down and promises that they will be taken care of which I am sure he will. These people will then not voice anymore public outcry....but not everyone is willing to go this route to get simply what they should get from Stern when purchasing NIB. I think it has worked to a degree though...Gary calls a few people and now no more pictures of their games degrading because they were silenced. No more outcry, damage control program successful.
I think Stern should really implement a program and acknowledge the problem publicly to restore confidence in consumers, past, present and future. I wonder how many potential sales they are really losing. A lot of consumers on here have stated that they are holding off...does this damage Sterns bottom line? I know personally that I was hoping to buy a couple of games NIB as I recently have been getting back into pinball...I really want a MET and GB which I wanted to purchase NIB but now I am simply on hold and decided the risk/reward for a NIB purchase is to great. I like opening a game NIB...it's a thrill that anyone has experienced can attest to. To me it can be compared to buying a new car vs a slightly used one. Yes I know you lose money driving that new car off the lot but their is nothing like driving a new car. A slightly used one is nice to but definitely not the same feeling as buying it new. For now I will wait and see what happens to make a choice...right now it's looking like just wait for a good HUO down the road. Fix your playfields Stern and while your at it Fix your "Program".

There is no program. A program is something that is tangible, has been vetted, and has policies and procedures in place. Stated, in writing. What we have is hearsay. Nothing more.

It's a terrible stance from Stern. I am quite sure they are worried about liability which is the reason for silence but they should be MORE worried about their customers. They are pumping out a shit product right now. It hasn't been just the PF's. We are talking about mismatched rails, flawed designs and apparently no QC process in place.

How in the world they sit in silence is beyond me.

Here is Stern's (Data East) warranty pulled from 1991's Batman manual, and one pulled from Ghostbusters.

The only thing that has changed in 25 years is that they warranty the DMD Display Board for 9 month.

Batman had a DMD, so that wasn't even covered back in the day.

Anyone now what game Stern started covering the DMD board?

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This issue is now several months old and anybody that reads pinside knows about it. But people are still buying them though and complaining about it when it happens to theirs. My mom once asked me if I saw somebody jump off a cliff would I do the same?

The program seems to be to fix the game of anyone being too loud and vocal that might hurt Stern sales. Everyone else can just suck it.

As to the question earlier as to what years are OK only Stern knows. I don't think I would buy a 2016 stern at this stage until it is at least a year old and I knew it had been played a fair bit (1k+) and I could not see any signs of ghosting or clear cracking or lifting. Even then for a Metallica or something they have been making for a while I would get an older one.

I've decided I'm just going to wait for the Vault version. Hopefully they will have the issues ironed out by then.

Besides the obvious problem that needs to be fixed, the other major issue is the lack of public acknowledgment. It's way past time for that. It has become the elephant in the living room.

Amen bro

How far was your fall?

Far enough to knock enough sense into my head that I won't buy something when others are getting theirs with serious issues.

I've gotten lucky with my GBLE, yes it was a roll of the dice! Great pin btw

Stern seems to be playing the angle that by NOT making a public announcement, the liability will be much less and the number of consumers that don't pay attention will outweigh the loss of current and future sales?

I get it but its not right and i think they are making a mistake. Why not give people confidence they are working on the issue and will take care of the problems as they arise?

Secretive case by case dealings in a small knit pinball community on such a widespread issue doesn't seem to make much sense but oh well.

Problem is pinball companies in general have never dealt with the general public. And there aren't many if any instances where they have made a public statement in regards to poor quality in their products.

Is it secretive though? Call your distributor, they will raise the issue with Stern. Same system they have used for any issue. Be patient, and they will take care of it.

They certainly didn't announce a recall on the XMen LE Aux boards, which was fairly wide spread. I just called my distributor, and got a new one (though it took 3 to finally get one that worked!).

Pretty much standard with most companies that make commercial or industrial equipment. Usually there is a distributor or middle man that you have to buy from and take care of any issues under warranty.

Recalls and announcements are usually only made for safety or performance issues on this kind of equipment.

Well it's not rocket science and everybody does it these days. Shouldn't be hard to add some degree of common sense and bring Stern PR and marketing into the 21st century. I am betting they can and will do the right thing eventually - by acknowledging, apologizing and swapping/repopulating playfields. Time to get it out there Gary and put it in print. Give us a state of union about if you've fixed the problem and what it was.

Part of the problem is that Stern is not handling the distributor business model consistently. Why is Gary Stern reaching out to select individual customers and not handling the issue through their distributors if that is supposedly how they operate?

My distributor asks me for information on this situation because he knows I monitor these threads and Stern doesn't tell him anything. Is something wrong with this picture?