Maybe, lol.

But then again, if you weren't on Pinside, you would probably not know that GB is even out yet.....

It does not appear to be water based clear.

But it's a negative test....there are certainly water based clears that are not alcohol soluble.

And a proud, card carrying member of the non 39.

if you are 99.9% of the world you don't know pinball still exists!

Pinside, part of the 1 percenters

Weeks of reported issues and nothing from Stern. Not cool. Just acknowledge the issue.

Come on now, how are you able to say

And then IMMEDIATELY follow that with

Also, where can I send the invoice for the neck brace I need after the whiplash from the cognitive dissonance of..

???

Discount Cognitive Dissonance
2001 Lunt Ave
Elk Grove Village
IL 60007

Wait a minute..

I can only speak from personal experience and I am far from being a fanboy of any of the current manufacturers.

I love how stern deletes negative comments on their IG. Everyone should be posting on it.

We also need to call out everyone associated with stern on a PR level. Next stream from Jack Danger, Nate Shivers, the bare naked lady guy...ask Gary, George, anyone you can. Help the community that makes you.

It should be no surprise that Stern (and EVERY other company) deletes negative comments from their socials. It's THEIR page. If you walked in to a Gap store and started writing negative comments in Sharpie on the walls, you'd be promptly escorted out, and your chicken scratch would be hastily removed.

But yet we're hearing dozens and dozens of complaints about Stern playfields on pinside, but nothing about JJP playfields.

Yea, go dig up those posts from 2 years ago. I'm talking about now.

Nice bikeument.

The Internet is a powerful tool. Use it.

Let's hope Stern doesn't take a cue from the PPS/Churchill playbook. I must be naive but I found that long episode outrageous...

I suspect Stern will make it right in the end - but as others have stated... it won't happen on a timeline anybody will be happy with.

And I think anybody that doesn't want to risk some serious aggravation should cancel any orders right away. This might help Stern get off the ball if they actually hear that there have been a recent spate of cancellations.

You know they'll eventually fix this... and you know GB Premiums will be available for years so what's the hurry? They may release a plastic kit for the airballs (like they did for CV for ball hang ups) and then you'll get the final finished package. Right now this thing screams "rush job" from start to finish.

I actually went to look up "bikeument" before realizing what was going on. Well played, sir.

A lot of companies utilize social media in an effective way to deal with disgruntled customers. My wife runs social media for a Fortune 500 company and they rarely delete comments and will only do so if it is obscene or spam.

Met can be pretty clever when he wants to

Meanwhile, GBLE is a fantastic pin to play.

I'm playing and air balling the crap out of if it this weekend.

I really like the Mass Hysteria reverse flippers now, getting used to the back and forth.

Despite the poor communication or lack thereof, Stern will get these issues worked out and take care of people.

Carry on!

We ARE talking now.

Jack has still not replaced those people's playfields, even though he knows that they are defective AND has their contact information.

-

Give up on your super lame argument.

All we want is good customer service from all the manufacturers, to all of their customers.

When I see "those people" post, I'll believe you. I see real people posting about Stern. I see no posts about JJP.

No reason to be immature about it. Just because I don't take your word as gospel does not make my position "lame." Expected better of you.

The GB leaks would explain the rush, and maybe the playfield issues, but not the issues with the SMVE and GOT playfields.

I am not sure how the leaks would have forced their hand?

What, JJP would be 5+ years from releasing a copycat pin, and their other volume competition would be... maybe Heighway?

This needs to be their next shirt!

As someone who loves to play this game on location, but can't afford to buy his own, I must agree. It's one fun game! But man, if I paid $8k and my machine wasn't immaculate once I took it out of the box? I get the frustration, for sure.

Post during non business hours also so they are not deleted in seconds maybe...while some people are asleep...I guess they won't get many views though during that time...post during the Stern Party!

I feel like I'm on to something after seeing pics, I think I may have this issue nailed down a bit besides just being a clear coat issue. As I've said in another thread, I know enough to be dangerous due to being in the body shop industry many years, but not enough to be the go to expert on pinball play fields.

Here's the interesting part. Notice the Clear Coat only seems to be an issue not adhering in two places.

1. Where there is no artwork and only wood
2. over the inserts
3. Does not seem to have that problem over the playfield art that i've seen.

I continue to think there is not enough flex additive being used(because of the cracking and flaking)but I suspect the culprit is a prepping problem before the clear coat is sprayed or change in cc or wood. Its not right for clear coat to crack or come off like a sheet of ice. When this happens on cars, it is an adhesion problem due to improper prepping(not sanding enough) or chemical reaction(oil or silicone on pre painted surface). Maybe its the wood, the prepping process or the clear coat(not sure if these things have changed), but for whatever reason it seems to be adhering on the play field artwork just fine.

If it were me, I'd be looking at the play field prepping process immediately before they are cleared specifically inserts and wood along with clear coat changes if the past few months.

I'm guessing the air balls have magnified(not caused) the the clear coat adherence issue on Ghostbusters. The toughest part about this issue is that you could catch some of the obvious ones, but others need to played and have the ball hit the cc (or not adhering area)before the it's really prevalent. This is a really bad deal for everyone involved. I've got one coming and I'm scared it will have this issue. Sorry you guys are going through this(this includes Stern as well). It's just a theory, so not sure if I'm off base here or not when it comes to wood play fields with clear coat on them as opposed to automobiles which are plastic and metal.

I think the air ball theory has been disproven thanks to GOT & SMVE

Insert ghosting in box=not air balls

makes sense to me...

I believe the insert ghosting is in part a Clear coat adhesion problem or(specially clear coat not bonding on the inserts and wood surface). The problem exists before any airball ever hits and delamination(ghosting) might have already occurred on some games prior to playing(hence nib insert ghosting). When the air balls smack down on the clear coat area that is not bonded it makes the problem that already exists worse because the clear is not sticking or bonding to the surface below(think of a sheet of ice over water). That surface below the clear is flexing or vibrating and the clear coat is further separating(ghosting/flaking/chipping) because it has not properly bonded in the first place.

The air balls aren't the cause, they are just accelerating the issue that already exists of clear coat not bonding properly to wood or inserts(not play field art) in the first place. I don't think anyone has reported a chip in the clear that is on the play field art at this point even where air balls have landed and dimpled the play field. I believe this is because the clear coat is bonding to what ever material the play field art is made of. If the clear coat had bonded, especially when it new, I think it would have stayed with the insert even if sinking to a point.

They are lots of play field experts on here, I'm not one of them, but really wanted to share my theory. The quicker this issue is solved, the better for all of us.

I didn't just mean the PF... everything seemed rushed and not tested as much as you'd like. Constant air balls, bending wire guide, outlane hopping... a huge lack of call outs to make the game more immersive, etc. It just seemed not quite fully cooked - to me anyways.

who did u buy it from?. and what are they doing about this.

sorry if i missed a previous answer to this. this thread is runnin hot.

I honestly don't know whether to believe if this whole playfield problem is as hig of a deal as some people are trying to make it out to be or not. Obviously Stern is going to have some quality problems from time to time, just like any other manufacturers do. In the case of KPG though, he admitted in another thread that this Pin is in a garage that is not climate controlled and said that it gets very hot in there. I dont know where he lives but I live in Ohio and I can tell you that my garage gets so damn hot that I certainly wouldn't want my Pinball machines out there. If he lives in the south, its three times as bad as Ohio probably.

I am not ragging on KPG, I don't know him and he's probably a nice guy but I have to ask myself why does a guy have 30,000 dollars invested in 4 pinball machines and he wont spend another 400-500 on an air conditioner? He says the other machines are fine. I dont know if extreme heat is hard on a playfield or not, but I gotta believe that it probably is and im sure its hell on the electronics as well. I'm getting a new GB myself and yes I will be pissed if it has playfield issues, but I have a feeling that Stern may be taking some unnecessary heat and getting some bad publicity that they dont deserve on this playfield issue because of a few people on this forum. I personally love the machines they have put out over the last few years and im glad they are still around. I also believe that for the people that have serious problems that Stern will make it right.

I think this has been discussed before. Some examples would be that leaks slowed the GOT sales, since buyers then feel "I am waiting to buy until I see the new GB I have heard about". Stern has bills to pay, so GB must be rushed to release, to get sales going, etc.

I dunno - does your car's CC start to delaminate and fail because it's in a warm garage? Plus the chips on the boards get FAR hotter when running then when turned off in a hot garage.

I found a FT back in the day that had been stored in a shed through freezing winters and blazing summers and had to buy it because it had a perfect unfaded cab (which I knew was pretty rare).

15 years later and it's never had any electrical issues and it turned out to have one of the nicer PF's I've ever seen. So that would seem to discount the theory that a little heat would make the PF fail so spectacularly. Plus all his other pins have always been there and are fine. He did some nice work on TWD's audio for example and during all that time he never mentioned a prob with his pins.

I WISH it was just a "few people" for Stern's sake as they CAN make reliable products. The TWD I have is as nice or nicer than my LOTR or TSPP. Really nice PF on that machine.

Maybe this really IS their first foray into making their own PF's in-house? I know my other Stern's have "Weber Playfield" and "Churchill Cabinet" printed on the sides of the PF's and I have yet to hear of a GB owner seeing a company ID on the side of their PF.

I don't have room for an AC unit in my garage? Maybe I should be worried about my cars in such a dangerous-for-Pinball-machines, non-climate controlled garage?

IMG_2427_(resized).JPG

I dont think the heat hurts the clear coat itself because obviously it doesnt hurt it on our cars. I was thinking more along the lines of maybe the wood expanding or contacting and maybe that making the clear coat seperate or crack. Im not saying it does or it doesnt, I honestly have no idea. I do for sure believe though that an extremely hot garage would be a bad environment for a pinball machine for many reasons. If this is as serious as alot of people seem to believe, then we definitely have a bad situation on our hands. I play a GB pro at a local barcade and its getting the crap played out of it and the playfield has no issues at all.

KPG, you probably dont have to worry about your cars but if you own guns I can tell you that they will ruin in your garage. Im not trying to act like an expert and I will be the first to say that I just dont know if pinball machines are threatened by bad climates or not. My gut feeling is that they could be though. Im just trying to help.

You keep making mistakes like that.

In case you missed it, most pin owners DO NOT post on Pinside.

I posted pictures of some of the damaged WOZ playfields, that I took myself.

That's as close as you are going to get, unless you are able to make more friends.

Killer rides man. Could use a few more pins in there though.

heres mine in my arcade at 65 degrees 2 inserts cracked and below playfield by magna slings 7 inserts ghosting. i posted info on the ghosting thread.commercial machines should be able to handle hot and cold extremes right stern?

Obviously, the current ghosting sometimes happens even before the box is opened. So your hot garage did not cause it.

But, your non air conditioned garage will harm your games in the long run.

I gotcha but to be fair the Pro really HASN'T had these kind of issues. Just the entire line of LE's seem to be the most affected. I suppose we'll see if it spills over to the Premiums next.

image_(resized).jpeg

I'm disappointed. I was SURE we'd see a nice vintage Yugo in your garage.

Yeah, it's the expansion and contraction of the wood that cause problems in a non-temperature controlled environment. My experience is that planking gets worse on Sterns in that kind of environment. It's one reason why I don't keep them in the garage anymore.

I dont know why a pro would be any different though unless the pros playfield is made by a different manufacturer?