I hope that this issue doesn't cause collectors' to love their GBLE machines any less. I think there's a decent chance that we all may be overreacting a bit as far as how severe of an issue this is. From the sound of things pretty much all playfields produced in the last 5-6 months may be affected which amounts to thousands of games and we've had what one or two reported cases where the clear has chipped off the top of the insert. And plenty of these machines are on route and being played constantly and yet the insert ghosting doesn't seem to be spreading that significantly. For the average LE owner that puts 100-200 games a year on a machine what are the chances that the clear will actually chip off over time? If your clear does chip off well it's under warranty I have no doubt that Stern will swap your game over to a new playfield at the factory.-that's what they've done for people with Metallica playfields where the playfields chipped off around the Sparky magnet. Stern will care of this if it becomes a big problem. In the meantime I would play the hell out of your game and enjoy it!

Once again the biggest problem I see is the silence from Stern. A simple acknowledgment of the issue and we are looking into it and possible solutions would go a long way. I also believe it stops posts like these from growing and possibly creating a bigger problem for Stern in the long run. The silence comes across to me, and as I have read many others, as arrogance and failure to accept any responsibility for the issue.

Will they?

If this is the only way they care that is really sad, they should care large or small.

Judging by their past I believe they will. I don't think this will mean new populated playfields for everyone with even a small hint of ghosting but the more severe cases where it becomes more than a cosmetic blemish (inserts chipping,etc.) will be taken care of. It wouldn't surprise me if they offered some type of additional warranty on the playfield to cover these types of situations. Similar to what JJP did for the light boards on WOZ just to give buyers' more peace of mind. Maybe they will warranty the playfields for 3-5 years against insert chipping and deal with these if the problem becomes more severe rather than dealing with it up front? Hopefully we will find out their course of action this week.

Well, I can only say this. GBLE was my first nib. I say was as the experience is underwelming. It is great to see the box arrive at my home and unpacking, it is sad to see the quality and proces with Stern about complaining and the e-mails with your distri. So I think a High End restauration for about the same money is a real present, you can see the machine, you know what you get. I really think this was my first and last nib...sorry..

The most recent issue that comes to mind is the diverter of the orbit in Game of Thrones. How did Stern handle that ? They changed the game rules so you do not have to make the orbit. It is a Steve Ritchie pin, the so-called King of Flow. Not much flow with the orbits not working is there ?

Instead of just fixing the issue they worked around it, thereby changing the game. Nothing better than a soaring orbit shot. What we get instead is a shot into the popbumpers and Stern is done with it. I do not consider this taking care of the issue.

Wow... I have no words... shame on you stern....

Not a big sense of humor in Brazil, I see.

From the seminars I have watched Stern definitely (both Gary and Gomez) acknowledge that the market has switched in the US. They know that the market is not just operators and includ the home purchaser as much, if not more sales to the latter then ops. This has been stated in several interviews and seminars. If you look at what their business model is becoming you can easily see evidence of this fact. They sale mods direct now on their website (retailer). Stern is very involved in their retail sales with their distributors...to the point of setting minimum pricing including telling the Distributors that they are not to include freebies with purchases.

So the argument of these are Commercial machines is just blah blah blah. Originally yes but currently they are both Commercial and Consumer products that Stern caters to both markets as they are both essential to their profit margins. So these cosmetic issues specifically ghosting is a valid concern to Pinsiders and the argument that "you know these are commercial machines so don't complain" is no longer valid in 2016.

What is the return policy on a NIB pinball? Is there a restocking fee? If your machine is not up to your standards because your standards are higher than a typical customer for the product, return it. Take your lick, you are the fussy one. What's a 15% restocking fee among friends?

I just want to point out that this board is not representative of typical machine buyers. I'm not trying to excuse stern, but some of the "ghosting" complaint photos in this thread are completely ridiculous. I'm especially disturbed when seeing complaints of dimpling by some of the worst complainers. Many of you guys are just out of your element.

And I completely agree that those with concern should sit out buying NIB sterns and cancel their orders. There are other options and the market is highly efficient in correcting itself when cashflows are diverted. If the home market is that influential, mitigation will occur.

In the meantime, take the lick and return those games to whomever you wrote the check. I wouldn't mind picking one up on clearance. Oh, that's right, pinball machines don't go on clearance anymore, do they? I don't think I've seen a single complainant offer their machine up for sale at a discount yet. Has a single one of you tried to return your machine. I know I'd be buying with American Express if I was in the market. I believe they provide an absolute satisfaction guarantee on EVERYTHING you purchase with that card. Or do they have a different standards between commercial and consumer goods?

As much as I love Pinball, Stern, and my Distributor, yes, I do use American Express for protection on any pin purchase.
I gladly use it for only a portion or all, and pay the CC fee.

I'm can't beleive Stern is still sending out PF they know have a problem. It's just such bad business the cost of doing repair or replacement goes up exponentially as soon as the product leaves the production facility. I'm not going say anything bad about their pins I love them, but the management and manufacturing is horrendous for 2016. The best thing that could happen at this stage is for a modern company to take them over and clean house with everyone but Creative.

$1000 is the restocking fee amongst friends for a product which standards are lower than the previous games they have released. My standards are not higher than they were before. I was really happy with the quality from all the other Sterns that I have owned / or currently own. The quality standard from the manufacturer changed and you're trying to pass the buck down to the client.

List me any other Stern from 2003-2015 that had this ghosting problem a this scale? A few MET and ST had a clear problem and they fixed that up for the clients. I'm talking about a problem that spans multiple titles and that have been plaguing Stern for the passed 5 or so months.

Agreed. But some of them are from newbies that just entered the market and don't know that it's a normal process.

Yup speak with the wallet.

I would imagine people are not putting them for sale in the hopes that Stern does something. If someone would put theirs for sale now I'm sure they would lose at least $2K off the price. No one wants to lose that much on something that is essentially new.

No one wants to take a $1000 hit because of a problem caused by the manufacturer at some point down the line.

If it was simply a matter of ordering up new playfields without the problem and keep production moving along they would have done that. I believe this is a bigger problem then that. Your fire everyone solution would cause way more problems for the company and the QC then help.

I wish I could up vote this more than once.

Thanks.

you must realize they employ a legal counsel and they have undoubtedly been told NOT to make any public announcements regarding any "issues" as this could make them liable for all kinds of actions in the future.

They'll take care of it as they have done in the past - offering some options to each buyer that cares enough to contact them. That's the smart thing for them to do.

As the chatter on social media becomes more positive they'll recoup any lost sales as the same buyers jump right back in again.

Production runs dont support this fact.
For example, 8000+ people did not buy LOTR over the course of nine production runs. Operators took their fair share.

LE games did not start until 2007.
LE/Premium games are routed in larger regions.
HUO games are rebought from dealers and brokers to operators and routed.

This is not the home electronics industry.
Owners need to talk to large cross selection of distributors, dealers, and brokers.

Inaccurate.

I did not mean that they should clean house because of this issue or as a solution to this issue. I was thinking more in the long term future of the company. If Stern was modernized in, production, licensing, marketing and PR it would do wonders for the business. Creatively they are still making amazing products, but in pretty much everything else they are just falling farther and farther behind.

Most the serious pinball arcades I visit, ONLY have LEs on the floor.

One that comes to immediately to mind, has the Pro out first, then replaces it with the LE once available.

The pinball "barcades" I visit in DC have LEs on the floor as well.

But LOTR was a oddity in it's popularity for both home and location buyers... plus that started 10 years ago. Not a good example to represent anything.

Look Gary Stern himself stated (finally) at a show that home buyers are now 70 to 80% of his customers. I found this pretty shocking after his continued lip service to operators even as we all could plainly see pinball in the wild was withering on the vine. Sure I could drive 15 miles to find a place with more than one pin but it's NOTHING like the old days. At least near me.

"Arrogance and failure to accept responsibility" is your perception of the default position that must be taken within the litigious society we live. Would you be happy for stern to admit responsibility and be driven into bankruptcy? Yes it is a problem. Yes it sucks to get something brand new that doesn't live up to your expectations. What has 1200 complaining comments achieved? Nothing if you guys keep buying. I just don't know what will satisfy any of you other than complete playfield replacements from the factory. A shiny NOS unpopulated playfield does absolutely nothing to address the problem.

What addresses the problem is returning the "defective" machines and canceling orders not yet delivered.

Can you list there "serious" pin arcades so when I travel I'll know where to look? Thanks

Wrong.

Nice rejoinder counselor...

I bet old MapleSyrups "Commercial Machines" are sitting in a climate controlled room with mylar in the shooter lanes and "cliffys" added to them where possible with Pinball life shiny balls (because Stern pinballs aren't good enough) and every mod known to pinball.
I also bet, Don't leave a beer on the glass, no smoking around the pins, kick the leg for a death save or hit the machine in anger when your ball is lost. You know, like if this "Commercial Machine " was in a bar, laundry or arcade

That is fine, cause if they don't then there is sure to be a class action law suit if this issue isn't addressed and continues to grow.

Then that same legal counsel will get what they want when they can start billing far more than they are now.

I did cancel my LE order.

I didn't believe there was much of a chance of being happy with the quality of the machine. I will wait this out and, hopefully, purchase a Premium in a few months when this is sorted out.

I already have my fill of green with Shrek and Hulk anyway.

Very rear on this side of the globe Vid, The only reason an LE gets sited here is they cant sell it and cant have that much money sitting in a box, so out it comes to start earning and be written off in devaluation against the business then sold for $500 less than NIB

Iceman, the Legal Council of Pinside here to set the record straight.

I see more Prem than LEs..

Nothing wrong with that.

Make sure you play them regularly, or you won't even see those anymore.

Oh if it is a good game I play the heck out of it..

Well I was going to go into a long explanation but I just cut to the chase.

Pauley Walnuts is right, silence does not avoid liability nor does making a general statement create it.

That said, I think Stern has made a decision to deal with this on a case by case basis.

The problem is there are way too many "cases" and that pesky old Pinside is shining the light on a lot of them

I'm sure some folks will never hear about the issue unless raised by Stern or ever notice it.

Thus, case by case, however it seems to be causing an avalanche of canceled orders for the time being

Not mine though, it arrives manana between 12-5!

You would lose that bet.

I don't like Cliffy's. I like regular shooter lane wear. That's supposed to happen.

No, don't leave a beer on the glass... Are you a f$&cking idiot??! There are drink holders on each side of every pin.

Not only can you not smoke around the pins, you can't smoke in my F$)cking house, because I'm not a moron. That second hand shit will kill me and my kids.

If you kick the machine or hit it in anger... You're a loser, and will not be invited back. It's a game folks. If you can't handle your rage during friendly competition, then I don't want you in my home.

Those are my rules! Haha

As for machine condition. My BoP2.0 looks like it was dragged behind a truck. Plays great though! It has a cracked billion insert. Who cares?! Not me.

My LOTr is HUO. I've had it since 2004. I Mylar'd the Shire hole cause it was a little beat up. Used a sharpie to fix the splintered wood at its side. Looks great.

My Fast Draw had some bad playfield fixes before I got it. They look kind of crappy... But I don't care. The game plays great.

I collect pins to play them. I love almost everything about pinball, aside from the whining that goes on here!!!

I have quite a diverse collection, I think, but my favourites by MANY miles are my modern Sterns.

I'm not going to get in to a pissing match, but I did want to defend my position when somebody starts to try to use bully tactics.

I always try to stay mindful of the golden rule though, "If you win an argument on the Internet... You've lost"

Happy flipping fellas. If you're upset, I hope you find a solution that makes you happy. This is supposed to be fun, right?!

If the lawyers have to get involved we all lose.

I kept my LE because I'm confident Stern will continue to make wise business decisions in the future (as in correcting mistakes) and treat their customers right.

If not, there is always plan B

In the meantime, I'll be unpacking a GBLE tomorrow and getting the beer iced down and stocked up tonight

good luck dude... seriously! I gotta good feeling about it though

To those who say we should all expect shoddy games because we're unworthy home owners...

Please let Stern know on all of your future orders the shit playfields are fine for your game. Let Stern know they should skip the whole QC process on your games too. No big deal right? These are for ops after all & they will plug in a game even if it's missing the slingshot coil so why would the homeowner expect one?

I suspect many of us will sit on the sidelines with money awaiting a resolution.

Except Ice.

He's an idiot

WOW! seem to have hit a nerve here, it was all in jest mate, lighten up,

Just a game......yes it is expensive, but I have lost more money than this in a day. I love watching all of the folks here who get bent out of shape by what other people do with their money and property. I for one am playing the hell out of my game, and if it develops ghosting, I will send my distributor an e-mail. If they fix it, great....if they don't, then I am going to keep on playing. If I had bought it as an investment, then I would never have unboxed it. Pretty much NOTHING discussed here on Pinside, means anything in the end....so have fun, and don't give a crap what someone else does....................

Well I find myself agreeing with Maple on the following:

No Cliffys, no extra metal on my pins
No Smoking for obvious reasons
"Beer" cup holders are a good thing
No beating up my pins as an invited guest
Pinball is great. Have fun

On the other hand, Pinside is a melting pot of people, you have your "drunkards, stoners, your bible thumpers, prison inmates and guards...."

A big ole family that is just a "little bit of them all" to quote Roger Creager

And whining, arguing, bitching and complaining is just part of what a family does. Then you work it out and hug it out

And my favorite JB saying to live by "if we weren't all crazy we might go insane" kind of sums up Pinside in some ways

Boom box rocking, beer flowing and turning on a brand new pin for the first time. It's all good, what's not to like about that

And on that note, we should just close this thread......we still don't know if Stern is serious, but at this point......who cares!

I'm fine with player condition pins. Most of mine are. I'm just not fine when they achieve that status coming RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX....

Don't wear out that Rick Astley CD .....

rd

An LE should have an extra level of care given to it in manufacturing too. It's not enough to just swap the art, because they are charging far more for it than is justified. LE buyers skyrocket the margin for Stern, and their machines should reflect that with extra care and support.

They better hurry up. I'm doing just fine in the B/W class of 92-95 with ColorDMDs and no ghosting on my games.

The prices they charge for the cost cutting they do and the lack of features (read: colorized display) - they are losing some of us for more than 1 game or half a year. They're losing us for the forsee able future.....

i had noticed some ghosting on my Pro Storage Facility insert a while back, but it was still smooth to the touch so i didn't worry much about it. Yesterday I took the glass off to take a closer look at it again, and now i can feel the clear coat has started cracking a bit, its still a very fine ridge you can feel with your finger. Distributor suggested cleaning the area up and put a little strip of mylar over it to protect the area. I have also sent a note to stern along with the picture this morning and hope to hear what their suggestion is to keep it from breaking down further. I have not done anything with it yet, wanted to see what sterns suggested fix is. as long as i can keep the clear from flaking away at an alarming rate and the game is playable, I am happy. Maybe it'll suck down the road when it comes time to sell it off, but i guess we'll see how it plays out

Ghosting_(resized).jpg