Big Game
Stern Electronics, 1980
Game of Thrones (LE)
Stern, 2015
Game of Thrones (Premium)
Stern, 2015
Game Of Thrones (Pro)
Stern, 2015
Ghostbusters (LE)
Stern, 2016
Ghostbusters (Premium)
Stern, 2016
Ghostbusters (Pro)
Stern, 2016
Metallica (Premium)
Stern, 2013Quoted from metallik:The switch is built in to the power supply already. It's much easier to just cut a hole in the head for that switch, than to open each power supply and wire up a remote switch.
I'm still amazed no one has made a mod yet to relocate the switch back to where everyone is used too.
LTG : )
Quoted from jwilson:Might be a UL/CSA thing? I know they moved the power switch on P2K up a bit for UL reasons.
It is not only the distance from the power supply. Now you are routing wall power from the head to the cabinet and the head folds and have to account for that. I'll bet this creates the possibility to pinch the wire and create a short. So now you created a hazard with the game off.
Quoted from No_Skill:Would some dead pixels on your TV be considered a defect? The TV still functions and the missing pixels are only a minor cosmetic annoyance, right?
Notably, computer monitor warranties specifically stated fewer than x dead or stuck pixels was not a valid reason for a return. Five IIRC but it likely varied by size and between manufacturers. TVs probably have similar language in their warranty.
Quoted from Mr68:I will remind you of The Big Lewboski during Phil-Gate. I'm pretty sure you set a Pinside record for complaining.
its one thing to complain about little shit constantly such as inserts or switch locations but it's another to complain when I ask for 15k to be refunded when I never got what I paid for. If Gary wasn't delivering games, I'd be happy to support people's complaints. Barry made it right with me, I'm fine with that.
On another note, funny your nice via pm yet routinely attempt to try and pick an argument with me. Interesting and lame all at the same time.
Quoted from inhomearcades:On another note, funny your nice via pm yet routinely attempt to try and pick an argument with me. Interesting and lame all at the same time.
Oh stop it. If I was going pick an argument with you I'd make fun of the way you dress. I countered your mistaken comment is all. (low hanging fruit I admit)
Good grief, I was going to buy you a beer at Expo but now its the other way around and you owe me one.
Quoted from Mr68:now its the other way around and you owe me one
Sucks when that happens.
Quoted from Yoski:So what it comes down to is that some people are OK with paying top $$ for a so-so product and other people, myself included, take their business elsewhere.
Yes, everybody's free to do whatever they want with their money, not everybody has had a bad experience. You only hear the bad on a forum like this.
Quoted from Air_Pinball:If there is that many games in a row, they should be on a breaker or power switch of some kind.
That would be nice, but it isn't always possible.
Quoted from metallik:The switch is built in to the power supply already. It's much easier to just cut a hole in the head for that switch, than to open each power supply and wire up a remote switch. Also would invalidate the power supplies' UL rating and would require additional work to certify the remote switch.
.
Well you don't hack the part, you get the right part.
My point being.. its not about a simple run of cable and cost reducing that. Because this includes the mains power.. and high voltage.. there is more to the decision and solution than simply 'a few cents of wire'. They opt'd to move the powersupply. I don't claim to know their ultimate motivation to do that, but I know there are enough factors in here that I wouldn't pin it just cost reducing a few cents. And once that decision was made, there are constraints they must live within.
Personally I hate the switch.. but I know fixing it is not about moving the switch, but likely about moving the power supply back to the lower cabinet.
Someone just should try to get a reasonable answer out of Gomez.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:This thread covers a lot of material but doesn't answer many concerns. Here are some technical questions that surely someone know the answers.
1) let's say a GBLE owner bought a spare playfield that currently sits next to his machine. Should both playfields act the same, ie if the playable one starts ghosting, it would because of chemical reaction of the paints or temperature shifts, not caused by ball rub, so the spare playfield would be just as susceptible to ghosting, right?
2) ghosting is primarily an issue with GBLE games having been run over past few months. No other title is experiencing the same wholesale issue, including MMR, right? Other games are getting made by Stern without the ghosting,including GB pro and GB prem, right?
3) if your GBLE playfield should start ghosting, you could fix it by swapping in a new playfield, but could you sand and reclear your existing playfield to fix the problem? Don't understand if this would work as a practical matter or if iother factors would prevent it from working.
Spare PF isn't going to make a difference if they both have the same manufacturing issues. Only difference is if the movement is advancing the separation. But that just means it will happen later with the spare.
GOT and SMVE has reports of it too.
Sanding and reclearing isn't a option unless you plan a complete restore of all the inserts with decals, etc as well. The separation is between the insert and the clear.. so you are talking about stripping the inserts bare, decaling, and then clearing again.
Quoted from LTG:I'm still amazed no one has made a mod yet to relocate the switch back to where everyone is used too.
LTG : )
Unless the power supply has a soft power toggle in addition to its hard power switch.. this is kind of a shady mod to be playing with because you'd be trying to re-route the high voltage stuff.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:2) ghosting is primarily an issue with GBLE games having been run over past few months. No other title is experiencing the same wholesale issue, including MMR, right? Other games are getting made by Stern without the ghosting,including GB pro and GB prem, right?
Pretty sure there's been reports on LE and Pros. I've personally seen it on pros. Are premiums being delivered yet? I didn't think so.
Quoted from flynnibus:Spare PF isn't going to make a difference if they both have the same manufacturing issues. Only difference is if the movement is advancing the separation. But that just means it will happen later with the spare.
GOT and SMVE has reports of it too.
Sanding and reclearing isn't a option unless you plan a complete restore of all the inserts with decals, etc as well. The separation is between the insert and the clear.. so you are talking about stripping the inserts bare, decaling, and then clearing again.
flynnibus you rock 
thanks for the clear, concise and timely explanations!
GOT, SMVE, GB pro, GB LE
All have current issues with ghosting
If you actually read the thread it all started with SMVE.
First post first page
Quoted from flynnibus:Unless the power supply has a soft power toggle in addition to its hard power switch.. this is kind of a shady mod to be playing with because you'd be trying to re-route the high voltage stuff.
Not at all familiar with this particular power supply, I know many arcade power supplies with a built in switch also include a molex connector for a remote switch (which would be a hard power switch). If they picked this power supply because it was a stock component, chances are it has that connector. Give me 10 minutes and some parts from the ole bin and I'll have your remote switch.
Since nobody has done that yet, my guess would be that they got either custom power supples or the cheaper versions without the remote switch capibility. If they did that, not only are they saving on wiring but also on the cost of the power supply.
Quoted from merccat:Since nobody has done that yet,
Someone has. They posted pics, etc. here on Pinside.
LTG : )
Ok somewhat familiar now (from looking at their manual PDF's). Power supply looks custom and the switch appears to be separate, not built into the supply.
That being said the switch feeds more than just the power supply, it also sends line power to the bill acceptor and a power distro connector in addition to the power supply connector.
So... A mod still easy enough but not plug and play. Also since they are running line power into the cabinet anyway (for bill validator) the reasoning that line power might get pinched is also out the window.
Quoted from LTG:Someone has. They posted pics, etc. here on Pinside.
LTG : )
Ah, well there ya go. 
Quoted from LTG:Someone has. They posted pics, etc. here on Pinside.
LTG : )
Quoted from paul_8788:As for the switch location, it was a design decision made on the fact that the power supply on Spike games is now in the head. It makes sense to have the switch close to the power supply. Does it save money vs running an extra few feet of wire and a separate switch. I suppose, but it is also the most logical place to put the switch. I know people hate change, but complaining about this is just insane imo. Don't like it, get a mod or a power bar.
I agreed with the first part of your post, but had to give you a thumbs down for this part. The new switch location blows! 
Quoted from metallik:No it doesn't. You put the switch where it is convenient for the operator. All Sterns prior to Spike had the transformers in the back of the cabinet, but the switch was still in the traditional place. Early Bally and Stern SS games had the transformer in the head, right where the Spike power supply is. Where's the switch on those games? Front of the cabinet, where it should be.
Stern is cheapening out with the switch, plain and simple.
Bingo.
Quoted from merccat:Ok somewhat familiar now (from looking at their manual PDF's). Power supply looks custom and the switch appears to be separate, not built into the supply.
That being said the switch feeds more than just the power supply, it also sends line power to the bill acceptor and a power distro connector in addition to the power supply connector.
So... A mod still easy enough but not plug and play. Also since they are running line power into the cabinet anyway (for bill validator) the reasoning that line power might get pinched is also out the window.
They supply the power cable for the bill validator with the unit, but you have to route it yourself if you want it in there. All of the power components are in the head, including the connection on the back for the power cord. Very clean, and I see why they did it, in order to keep the components together. Lower failure rate, and easy replacement. The power switch is easy to reach and not an issue.
As a side note...remember back when all we had to freak out about were the magnetic slings? Yea...good times....lol
Quoted from Manimal:The power switch is easy to reach and not an issue.
When you're 5'6" it's starting to be a real stretch since I don't have space to sneak beside the games. I tried to reach the backbox on TWD and I can barely reach it.
I've also never seen a power switch fail...but I guess it could happen. The thing I find funny is that tHey give you the wire to do the bill validator which will be use by 0% of the collectors market and costs probably more than keeping the switch in the same usual place. Either way we will have to live with it i guess.
The new power switch position sucks. I'm thinking about creating a mod with a middle finger on a stick so that I can reach back there to turn it on, while at the same time flipping off Gary Stern for approving that stupid decision.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:Notably, computer monitor warranties specifically stated fewer than x dead or stuck pixels was not a valid reason for a return. Five IIRC but it likely varied by size and between manufacturers. TVs probably have similar language in their warranty.
5 pixels out of 2,073,600 seems more than reasonable. How many ghosting inserts out of the 40 or 50 would be equally reasonable?
Quoted from golfingdad1:GOT, SMVE, GB pro, GB LE
All have current issues with ghosting
If you actually read the thread it all started with SMVE.
First post first page
I should add the one I play all the time has no issues with ghosting, and it's a blast to play .
Over two months now .
Quoted from No_Skill:5 pixels out of 2,073,600 seems more than reasonable.
As long as they are not grouped in the center of the screen.
Quoted from metallik:The switch is built in to the power supply already. It's much easier to just cut a hole in the head for that switch, than to open each power supply and wire up a remote switch. Also would invalidate the power supplies' UL rating and would require additional work to certify the remote switch.
I might be naive, but I really don't think the power switch thing boils down to cost-cutting. I think you are onto something with regard to the idea that a remote switch requires mods to the PSU which might jeopardize UL (and CE) compliance.
I also wonder if there could be technical issues with locating the PSU in the cabinet such that the switch is in the traditional location. Is it possible that the longer wire runs which would be required for logic power supply sections (assuming the main board stays in the backbox) would have higher risk of picking up deleterious EMI/RFI?
I have played GB pro at three locations over the past month (one locally in OKC, one at the Pinball Museum in Vegas, and one at NY NY in Vegas), and really looked hard for defects. All three played flawlessly (though my scores mostly sucked). The game at Cactus Jack's did not have any apparent flaws with anything. The game at NY NY might have had slight ghosting around a couple of inserts, but was otherwise 100% intact. The game at the Pinball Museum could use a bit of light cleaning and had a couple of dim GI bulbs, but no playfield problems that I could find (on another note, I went in walking on eggshells based upon some Pinside posts which suggested the owner was something of a crotchety burnout, but he was perfectly welcoming and nice to my sons and I and we all had a great time). Also, mission accomplished with my wife; she loved the game and gave me the green light to pull the trigger on a Premium, and I continue to feel damn lucky to have married so well!
Why are we talking about the location of the power switch , it really has nothing to do with this thread . It's not a flaw . It may be a pain in the ars but it ain't broke .
Quoted from golfingdad1:Why are we talking about the location of the power switch , it really has nothing to do with this thread . It's not a flaw . It may be a pain in the ars but it ain't broke .
The title of the thread is "Hey Stern! Are You Serious?"
I think it's a valid question regarding the (stupid) location of the power switch on the head.
Quoted from HighVoltage:Heat from incandescents will cause mylar to lift? Didn't know that...
Oh yeah, bakes that glue hard as a rock.
Quoted from RobT:The title of the thread is "Hey Stern! Are You Serious?"
I think it's a valid question regarding the (stupid) location of the power switch on the head.
Valid question for another thread , maybe ?
Quoted from RobT:The title of the thread is "Hey Stern! Are You Serious?"
I think it's a valid question regarding the (stupid) location of the power switch on the head.
But the OP's text in his first post concerns playfields.
Besides this is essentially a thread about quality issues as i see it .
The position of the switch is not a quality issue.
If there's something strange in your pinball
Who you gonna call? (stern Pinball ))
If there's something weird
And it don't look good
Who you gonna call? (Stern Pinball ))
I ain't afraid of no insert ghosting
I ain't afraid of no insert ghosting
If you're seeing things running through your playfield
Who you gonna call? ( stern Pinball )
An invisible ball
Sleeping in your orbit
Who you gonna call? (ghostbusters)
I ain't afraid of no insert ghosting
I ain't afraid of no insert ghosting
Who you gonna call? ( Stern Pinball )
If you're playfield gone wrong
Pick up the phone
And call Stern Pinball
Quoted from Mr68:Oh stop it. If I was going pick an argument with you I'd make fun of the way you dress. I countered your mistaken comment is all. (low hanging fruit I admit)
Good grief, I was going to buy you a beer at Expo but now its the other way around and you owe me one.
can I have his beer? 
Quoted from EricHadley:This thread sucks
Yes, it sucks that Stern has changed the way they were doing things thus necessitating the thread.
Quoted from lordloss:After 32 pages, I get the felling that Yes, stern is serious.
Serious about making money now rather than later?
Quoted from RobT:I agreed with the first part of your post, but had to give you a thumbs down for this part. The new switch location blows!
lol! Honestly, I prefer the old switch location as well. I would prefer having the switches in the same place across all my pins. I just get why they made the decision they did, given the new Spike design, and can adapt. Not everything in the world ends up being the way I want it.
Quoted from Mr68:But the OP's text in his first post concerns playfields.
I like turtles.
I guess I should add that the MET pro I recently bought has a ghosting insert. It's not the end of the world for me. Curious what Stern has to say about such issues, though. Not sure how common stuff like that is but I figured worth noting in this thread.
Quoted from lordloss:After 32 pages, I get the felling that Yes, stern is serious.
32, 32, 32 can I get 40. 40, 40, can I get 45...
Quoted from RobT:I like turtles.
Giving me a thumbs up from the new and improved RobT would have been nicer.
Quoted from Mitch:Just cause you asked mine cost 12k and if I was told it might have Defects in the the clear, yes DEFECTS, I wouldn't have paid 12k. My expectation was that for 12k (that's $12,000) I would get me the same quality as my met prem, mustang prem or RCT all of which cost less then 12k and have no clear DEFECTS also known as ghosting. That was all i was expecting for 12k.
With just a few more guys like you, none of us will ever afford a pinball machine. If I spent 12 grand on a toy, I'd expect to be reamed in numerous ways. You are in the wrong market, you should be buying art or jewelry. Maybe you can send your machine out to HEP and spend another 10 grand to get what you really want... more bragging rights.
Quoted from SadSack:With just a few more guys like you, none of us will ever afford a pinball machine. If I spent 12 grand on a toy, I'd expect to be reamed in numerous ways. You are in the wrong market, you should be buying art or jewelry. Maybe you can send your machine out to HEP and spend another 10 grand to get what you really want... more bragging rights.
Quoted from inhomearcades:And for gods sake, everyone can stop mentioning how much games are. It is completely irrelevant
You obviously didn't read the post above mine. I only wrote the price so many times to bug inhomearccades. Get a life
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