UGH, not good....I wonder how wide spread this issue is?

It looks like some of the Australian LEs have it, This problem seems to show up after you start playing and keeps getting worse over time. Almost like the inserts are sinking/ settling

Same here. Except I got booted for simply offering to help address the lack of code updates. Maybe they thought I was being sarcastic.

I would

Yup mylar, if it has regular bulbs still in it put leds in pronto.

may be thats the only way what they understand.

It was just a machine from an import for sale list, I wasn't seriously considering picking it up... Heat from incandescents will cause mylar to lift? Didn't know that...

This thread makes me only want to buy used until this problem is fixed.

you know the only way they'll understand; we all do.

Has he offered you anything before communications ceased?

Did you pay with a credit card?

Per the warranty or any description posted anywhere by your distributor or stern do you see anything stating that ghosting is a flaw or that it is covered.

This issue sucks for all of us, your not the only one with this issue. This is something that has happened to pinball machines since the beginning of them, if it's something you don't like, simply stop buying them. These machines are not advertised as anything other than plastic and wood being hit with a steel ball. Pinballs WILL break, wear, scratch, dent, fade, ghost, fry electronics, and just about everything else at some point.

and that point can be minute one apparently!!!!

"It just doesn't matter" Bill Murray (1979)

What standard does the game not meet? Your acting as if this is the only game in the history of pinball machines that has this issue. Ghosting is not limited to your one game. You keep referring to the consumer law there, can you please cite which section covers an issue like this?

Ghosting is a natural chemical reaction on a pinball machine, not limited to your specific game and it's not necessarily a flaw.

I've been following this thread for a while now. Last friday I recieved my GBLE, got it set up on saturday and been playing since then (not that much, like a game or 20.....). Untill now so far as I can see my playfield is fine.... But your stories worry me (a lot). So for the most of you who have problems, they occure after about 3 days?

My GBLE is manufactured on 21 of may 2016. So I assume that it was part of the batch of pinball machines where the playfield with ghosting is seen. I still hope I'm one of the lucky ones with no ghosting issue's, but I will keep you informed.

I can't imagine Stern isn't going to do anything about this problem. I mean pinball machines are very expensive and here in Europe we pay like €9400,- to €9800,- for a limited edition...... Stern has to fix this!

Be prepared for what words are being suggested.

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Stern has just deleted my post on their facebook page. They don't want to hear anything about the issue. No communication from them, we don't know if they are working on a solution. Black out ! they only say, see with your distributor, but the distributor have no informations. They are playing tennis between their customers and distributors. They are really fast to take money but to supply a really good support ???.

I bought a star trek le game too, after playing a few games, the siderails lights broke. 8 months to get 2 small pcbs and 2 led stripes ! so for inserts ghosting issue XX years ?.

They don't take care to their customers anymore, (support, code update, to much problem for a NIB game at 10k euro, unfinished game when they are available on the market ). This post have the right name ! Stern are you serious ?.

they want to buy cheap parts to build their game but after that the customers will pay the problems.

To be honest I'm really disapointed, frustrated. They have created a really fun, wonderful game with really good rules and I love it but too much problems for a fresh new game at 10k euro again. I'm feeling like I have bought a pinball machine like a piece of cake at 3$ at the super market. No consideration for their customers. You're on the right way !

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Edit :

A fresh email from stern to a french customer :

Hi XXXX,

Could you please send me some pictures of the damaged inserts you're referring to and also give me the name of your distributor and your game's serial number?

Thank you,
XXX

2nd email:

Hi XXXX,
Sorry to hear you are having problem with your game. Can you send us a picture of the damage?

Thank you,
XXX

I'll have to keep checking I guess but my 20 y/o Bally/Williams are immune to this chemical reaction.

"Avoid the problem, and you'll never be the one to overcome them"

Yup, after hearing about all of the issues with the game, especially playfield issues, I'll be waiting at least a year before deciding to purchase. Its a slap in the face to buyers for this amount of issues to be occuring especially with prices going up yet again.

These NIB prices are insane and Stern needs to realize that if they are going to charge insane prices that they better over deliver on quality (as well as code support) rather then the opposite.

Bally/Williams are about 50/50. There are plenty of them out there with ghosting.

I still am waiting for someone to explain how they consider ghosting a defect. It's not.

the clearcoat cracks also after 2 weeks

Gary knows this Problem, but he only info "we are working on it"

not how and what would be the soloution

we are happy in europe, the Distributor must swap the machine or take it back

sorry for us owners.

Well when the product is brand new and you cater to the collector market (because let's face it...it's a big part of their business) then ghosting on insert right out of the box would be considered a defect. Operators couldn't give two shits about ghosting because they are putting the game on location and making money while a collector will put it in his basement and enjoy them as art pieces, toys, memorabilia etc... While it is a fine line Stern has created the premium and LE's with collectors in mind so when an LE is ghosting after 1 week I would consider that a problem.

Some of those games have 100K plays on them , of course after time ghosting will show up (or not)...but you are trying to compare a game that has been beaten up, put on a truck and unload 100's of times, put through winter and summer cycles for the past 2-3 decades to a game that has just been removed from a box.

This is a shame. I have a deposit on a premium but I am going to cancel. I'm not paying that much for a pin and having ghosting out of the box and the chance of the clear coming off and ruining the PF. I got that with my WOZ and I sold it for a loss.

Stern's quality has room for improvement. I spend more time repairing my Star Trek, Metallica and ACDC than I spend on my old AFM, Twilight Zone or Judge Dredd.
I won't be buying any new Stern's until quality improves. Seems that Jersey Jack's machines have their fair share of problems as well.
They just don't make'em like they used too...

Ghosting CAN happen on any game - just like scuffs or discoloration can happen on ANY game. The fact it **can** happen on any game does not make it NOT a blemish or deficiency. Comparing inserts after years of commercial operation or decades of environment is not the same standard as looking at the product when it was new.

While it *can* happen on any game, it is not a condition expected on every game, or even most samples of a game as a new or young game. Thus why it's considered a deficiency or defect in the product when it happens on brand new games without any environmental drivers.

When the product's quality is below the accepted norm and QA standard - it is a defect. We do not get ghosting inserts on every game out of the box... well, now we are.. but not in Stern games prior.

And yes, consumer protection laws are generally MUCH stronger in europe. Mandatory warranties, mandatory returns, etc are pretty common.

Even if you don't accept ghosting to be a defect, the reason leading to this ghosting right out the box is a defect. This is something that happens to old, not well treated machines that have 20 year old clear on them which is completely dried out. I've never seen a HUO machine apart from these new Sterns that shows such ghosting. Not even close.
Is rust on a car a defect? Probably not if it's 20 years old, has 200K milage and was always parked outside. Is it a defect on a brand new one? ...

The only pins that ghost in a similar way are the 90's JPop games, especially CV. No-one has ever questioned that CV has playfield issues or defects, even HSA regards the CV ghosting as an issue (see below from their site). If they don't know, who does?
Funny enough my CV-PF has less ghosting than most of the Sterns sampled here. My other pins have no ghosting at all, most of them are 20+ years old.

This thread is not about ghosting or not ghosting, it's about the timing and the scope of it.

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I see this comparison a lot and it just doesn't make any sense, the reason a lot of these old B/W titles don't go down a lot anymore because all the hours and upgraded parts that have gone into them over the 25+ years since they came out. Ask any of the old timers and they will tell you that there was a lot more issues with B/W NIB than there ever has been with newer Sterns. Where's vid or any of the other veterans to chime in?

In some cases.. but much of the quality issues you hear about were either
1) build issues - these things were done in volume and without trying to be pristine.. so build errors or out of the box failures were common. That is just a temporary thing until the initial DoA stuff is fixed. This doesn't mean anything to longevity or long term reliability

2) Design flaws or parts substitutions - There were a number of designs over the years that just didn't work, or didn't hold up. Those are specific examples, not generalizations. Also over time there were manufacturing changes in parts.. that ultimately over time proved to be unreliable (certain sockets, etc).

The items in #2 tend to be the things we associate with the specific games or eras (like the edge connectors on WMS boards, or the ground system on sys80, etc).

These topics don't speak to the general issue of how robust games or mechs are.. or the types of materials used.

Most of the comments about 'worse than stern ever was..' are about the 'out of the box' readiness of the games. They were not the best for assembly QA before shipping games. But that's separate from the game's engineering or parts quality.

NIB QA is an entirely different topic from longevity, robustness, or parts quality.

The company doesn't intend it to look that way I assume so that sounds defective to me.....and it looks like shit, especially on a new game. That explain it?

I'm not a 'recognized' veteran (I don't care about being 'recognized'), but I'm a veteran. Having worked on these games when they were new - yes, they had problems. All were mechanical, not playfield or art related. And at that - there were no 'improved parts' back then; they all came from Midway. And very, very few of the problems were 'recurring' - usually when things broke, they broke within the first 6 months, or after 3-4 years. Not one game I've ever worked on new or old had shown age-old defects (like playfield ghosting) when new.

Again, though - with ONE exception - CV. I worked on three CVs, and all had effin' horrid playfield issues.

This is ridiculous, I will never buy a NIB unless things get straightened out. Seems like the manufacturers now a day's don't care about customer satisfaction. I understand there will always be mistakes made but for almost every game to go out with decals falling off, chips in the cabinets, damaged toys or play fields is just ludicrous. People spend good money on these machines, to get treated like crap, lied to, kept in the dark about what the hell is going on ect. They will only keep doing it, unless people vote with their money and spend it elsewhere. I am sorry but to see a 20 + year old playfield that is in better shape then a never played NIB is crazy.

For me (GB LE on order) this has got nothing to do with what happened or did not happen 20 years ago. I often see the veterans defending bad workmanship form the manufacturers as something that is normal. They are in a different mindset and in a different situation. If something is being used as a tool or to make money from, it is not important if it has some scratches or dents. They should work and thats it.

For a lot of people buying machines now, they do not make any money from the machines. Also Stern sells Limited Collectors editions. So that is clearly a different thing altogether. They should be optically flawless out of the box, no matter what. After use they should get normal wear. Ghosting is not normal wear as it also happens when the game is not being used.

Stern wants us to pay a lot of extra for something they advertise as more beautiful, better coated, better protected and what not. But when it clearly is not as advertised, they stay quiet. My guess is that they only try to cut costs everywhere they can and charge more for everthing.

As long as we buy the games, Stern will keep doing this. I really like Stern and have mainly Stern games, but it gets harder and harder to justify the cost of a product that gets inferior with each incarnation.

So what you are saying is that Stern uses low grade parts (versus upgraded parts) and doesn't spend many hours on the machines they sell. That's exactly my point and that's why I am done spending money of their half backed products.
If you make pinballs and can't make a decent opto switch and connectors that don't fail then maybe your product is not up to snuff. Same goes for failing mechanical parts (snake head) and poorly tested components, like lanes so narrow that the ball can't pass through (Metallica) and a sagging cannon (ACDC) that gets the ball stuck underneath. For that kind of money I simply expect better and not a bunch of lame excuses.

The whole point of buying a NIB pinball is so I don't have this kind of issue!

This is not an issue. It's a natural occurrence in some pinball machines.

Would u buy the OP's machine for the price he paid for? If so, problem solved!

Right...defective ones

I think if mine had ghosting I'd be frustrated and if Stern offered me a new playfield at their cost I would accept that as a solution. That way I could play the heck out of the machine and not worry about it knowing I could replace the playfield down the road.

That's mighty white of you

Sorry, but for 10k US this is an issue, to me its a manufacturer defect, here is a picture of one insert with 2 days play and is getting worse the more plays it gets,(this never had the issue until it was played) the clear coat is lifting or the insert is sinking , It won't be long until the CC cracks and chips off. How's this playfield going to look and play in 6 months or a years time?

I wouldn't buy a second hand pinball with this issue, so wont accept a NIB pinball with it.

PS. out of all the pins I own (have owned) TOTAN is the only pin with slight ghosting at 20 years old and with less than in this pic

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I believe you are doing it wrong. Don't buy NIB if you want reliable and error free. Buy used. Buy a machine with a proven track record that has been played enough to expose any issue.

I buy NIB because I am willing to accept the risk and the used market for newish sterns is pretty quiet up here. But every machine is unique. My AC/DC just plays harder than other instances. Subtle differences in the ramps kill the momentum making the shots harder. If you play that instance before you buy you can see these things.

There are distributors out there that will do high touch treatment, offer their own warranties and help you with every aspect of owning a machine. This is a different experience than drop shipping and differing issues to stern. Find one of those. Some will setup the machine and run it through it paces before delivering to your home.

I have minor ghosting. I am waiting to see if it get's worse. I am only concerned if the delamination leads to cracking up in the future. I have heard of others that are worse and could only have happened from a mistake in the clear process. The ghosting on mine I am sure will be classified and within allowable margins.

Don't get me wrong, I would rather have no ghosting, but I am not going to stress over cosmetics.

Let the down votes commence.