I'll check it out when i get home on both. I want to say ASLE does but i'll report back.

Sorry! But im not from us, but i think stern will be better when gary retierd.

If that's the case, then I wholeheartedly apologise (you're welcome for the correct English spelling, btw...but I just got back from seeing Dunkirk (EPIC!) so I'm in a UK mood!). But if English is his first language, then let me at him. You run that risk when you don't share your location...

My apologies, then. Post retracted and deleted.

The problem on Pinside with sentences that barely make sense is that it's tough to tell if the person is from a different country, or just drunk or stupid.

Ghosting is unavoidable tho, but a protector can be added to holes so chipping dont happen....which should of been there from factory. Also in that pic your red circle is a reflection. Apparently since the mylar was added on di there havent been any issues.

Lol....drunk or stupid, that's epic boob!

... and paint flecking leads to the dark side!

LTG did the red circle couldnt erase it in DI thread. So should JJP replace ALL the DIs with chipped playfields or you cool with covering a 20 plays out of box $9000 DI chipped to bare wood with a cliffy and say its good? if Stern should be held accountable so should JJP.

C'mon Boob leave Ice alone

Depends on the extent i guess but if its able to be covered by a cliffy than id be fine with it just like on my afm, mb, wcs, mm, ss, bsd and tz. I put cliffys on every pin that has came threw my house including all the nib ones. This way it cant happen or if it was there allready (like most used pins )its covered from getting worse. Granted all nib pins with this delicate cc sld come from the factory with them on sharp edges./scoops/holes. A metal ball will damage these areas eventually without protection no matter the company. People have come to expect way to much from pinball manufacturers these days bc of the prices . If you dont want issues than take precautions like many do.... if not than things are gonna happen bc well its pinball. I wldnt even worry about a small amout of ghosting unless it was causing issues or chipping.

JJP has not redefined that problem to be "normal" or "as designed." Stern just did that with their clearcoat problems. Indefensible.

Ghosting has been around a long time. At least half of CVs have it. Most SMs have it (original and Vault). Its not a new phenomenon. While it sucks, it certainly isn't a new thing. I do hope they figure out their issue quickly and fix this though. It shouldn't KEEP happening over and over.

Anyone know the current going rate for a GBLE with multiple ghosted inserts?

My GoT Pro is 2 years old and has a tiny sliver of ghosting on the Targaryen insert. It's not really visible if you don't look for it. I think this what Stern is trying to emphasize may happen on a playfield simply because there's people anal enough to demand new playfields if this was theirs. They aren't going to replace playfields with minor issues. If a playfield has ghosting and chipping on multiple inserts then that is something I think they should still replace.

Rob

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1, 2, 5 or 10 ghosting inserts, I don't think they will replace the playfield as their disclaimer does not indicate a minimum. The whole point of that was to ensure they are not liable for their crappy quality.

thats in their next manual revision.

Aerosmith playfields really feel like a bait and switch to me now. Look, we resolved our playfield problems! And then it looks like they went right back to the processes that had problems, but now with a disclaimer that it's normal.

I had assumed (my bad) that Stern would continue making playfields like they did in AS and that they would put this issue behind them finally. Now, even if they do switch to the better playfields again, the damage to their reputation is permanent. People will always have to wonder if the NIB game they are buying will be the one switched to the less expensive process or not. We all joke about the "Stern playfield lottery", but that's where we are now.

Yep... Buyer be aware!

Sometimes i'm IN a different country, sometimes i'm happily drunk and I'm definitely stupid most of the time SO those are my excuses Boob for certain incoherent rants!

Hopefully that clears it up for people.

Exactly. If they did actually reverse course from however they did the AS pf then that is MIND BLOWING stupid on their part.

Of course we will never know the truth because they don't communicate.

So, I'm left with wondering, waiting it out and canceling my LE.

maybe STERN should listen to Steve:

Nailed it.

So have you dropped out of your LE Ice? Your a well known presence here so if you have dropped out that's quite telling of Sterns decisions to shoot themselves in the foot again - Gary must be running out of toes!

No one person is a barometer of a company's decisions or lack there of... come on now.

Everyone's decision should be independent of another's - especially when considering comments made by a person sitting at a computer. Everything on Pinside needs a grain (read: pound) of salt.

Just thinking with Sterns crazy logic towards quality and costs. I bet they are running two runs of playfields. They clearly fixed the issue as we have seen pins with the ghosting issue sorted out. It would be just like them to run the flawed process to rush out the Pros and the more expensive fixed process for the LEs and Premiums.

Think you miss my point, iceman44 often goes to bat for Stern, rightly so he has had a lot of NIB with little to no issues and issues I know he has had Stern have sorted for him, but this next push from Stern to ensure further production issues are no longer going to be sorted clearly has him waning a little.

My point was and it still stands imo, is if Sterns biggest fans and supporters start dropping out of LE (hell even premium) orders, that is a big old indicator on the barometer of whether a company has pushed things to far with its customers.

I was a fan, client, regular customer, beta tester, and friend. They could count on me to buy the new games if I dug the themes. I bought NIB: BDK, IM, TFLE, Avatar LE, AC/DC Prem, X-Men LE (x2!), IM Vault, Met LE, STLE ...not to mention countless routed and HUO games, supporting the 2nd hand market (many of those people were reinvesting in NIB).

I'm out. 100% out. Sure, I'm one guy, and I'm sure another customer has replaced me....but that's my story.

Basically the CYA disclaimer changed things for me

I get why they did it. But by going after the nit pickers they are hurting their loyal base at the same time

And because I have a GBLE, I don't want another potential "issue pin"

I'll wait until the coast is clear

Oh I know Greg you where massive Stern NIB customer, just furthers my point above a lot of big Stern supporters have already or are now taking a step back from Stern.

Question is how many of their big multiple NIB LE buyers can they afford to loose? I know I am now out as well and I spent 35k on NIB Sterns this last 12-18months another 9 people who do the same but are also dropping out that's 350,000k lost in sales.

Maybe that's nothing to Stern but I sure as sh*t would be concerned if I suddenly started loosing that business.

I'll agree that that is overkill. But the real question is why is this happening in the first place. This problem is new and I can bet it's because they changed their clear recipe (whether be it because of new environmental laws or to widen their profit margins).

Either way it's not something a company should sweep under the rug....or classify as normal.

I am also out for now - ASLE is my last game - epic game as well.

But, I need to see more positive signs from the company going forward, especially with regards to code updates. Also own KISS and they alluded to an update that just hasn't happened.

Worse still is their communication as they can monitor FB at the speed of light but just can't bring themselves to inform us when code updates are close.

It's actually worse than Stern losing a few of their regular NIB buyers, it's losing the referrals we generate.

Over the last five years I've probably had a half dozen of my friends buy machines of their own, usually of titles and from distros I recommend.

Not sure if I can continue to make referals to Stern products if they won't commit to quality and code. That disclaimer in response to their own playfields (which they acknowledged was a problem and pushed production on a lot of their titles back last year) is really kind of surprising. Hopefully Stern addresses this issue somehow...and don't just assume we will get used to the new normal.

This year a lot of people contacted me to ask how the playfield of the ASLE I own is doing and every single time I could tell them it is perfect. Not any problem and even less dimpling. But now I contacted most of them to tell them it was probably a bait and switch from Stern.

Also the debacle with BM66 (i owned an LE) people asked me if the software would be ok and I was very much under the impression it would so I told them so. Not so sure anymore about that one either.

Makes me feel very bad about ever saying anything good about Stern actually. I cancelled my SWLE order and no Stern NIB for me anymore until they fix most of their shortcomings. Deliver a quality machine with code and support to back it up and I might reconsider. Not one minute sooner.

As you can tell I liked Stern very much but now it is time to say enough is enough. Me doing this alone will not matter much to them but I see many more doing this and that could make a difference for once.

This Stern "ghosting is normal" BS reminds me of 15 years ago when LCD display manufacturers tried to pull the same crap, claiming that a deal/stuck pixel or two was "normal" and "within acceptable tolerances" and they would not accept warranty claims on displays with less than [I believe it was some insane number around] 7 dead pixels.

As you can imagine, this was to get their production numbers up because the companies that enforced this policy (I recall Dell being one that did) had shoddy ODM partners who made mediocre displays that were prone to dead/stuck pixels. Rather than rejecting displays with dead pixels, they told customers this was "normal" and....

....well this pissed off a LOT of people, and it was only a matter of time before Samsung, Viewsonic, Apple, and others began boasting of their no tolerance policies where even 1 dead/stuck pixel would be eligible for a replacement display. Today Samsung/Innolux/LG make virtually every LCD display that exists and their manufacturing is such that dead/stuck pixels are far more rare than they used to be. But if people never stood up and told these guys dead pixels were not normal, who knows if that would have ever changed.

Now we're seeing the same thing with Stern leading the charge that their playfield manufacturing defects are normal variances as if it were a pair of designer jeans.

Make no mistake ....ghosting inserts right out of the gate are due to a less than proper clear coating process....either due to rushing the curing process, cutting corners in surface prep, or using substandard paints and/or clear.

If you are a Stern buyer, make your voice heard. Not on here. Speak up on Stern's social media. Tweet them. Tell your disty. Call them. The only way they'll change is if they see and hear a lot of buyer backlash. Stern cares about profit above all else, so that's the language you have to speak to them.

Do you think it's safe to buy one of the new batches of AS pros that are on their way to the distributors? I have one on order.

No one can say for sure. The initial Aerosmith batch had beautiful playfields. Who knows what's going on inside Stern now.

It stinks that nobody can answer that. Even distributors can't answer it. He might get the same great playfield, he might get "acceptable" ghosting. Schrödinger's playfield. Can't know until you open the box.

Attention Pinball Manufactures.
If you think customers are not important try living without them for a while and see what happens.

i-am-your-customer (resized).jpg

Frankly, IMO, ghosting is the least of the problems. Just the overall cheapening of machine quality is the biggest issue... everything from the backbox construction to the decals... parts in the game... innovations in design and attention to detail in the execution of design.

Slap high price tags on it... add to the fact that the games really aren't collectible... AND that I can play them on location... and of course Stern's PF issues and their covert-like response.

Really just eliminates any desire for me to to open my wallet and pay for one. Last Stern I bought was TWD and, at the moment, they are off my radar.

I'm considering buying a used GB premium with a manufacture date of October last year. Does anyone know if this ghosting/playfield issue was rectified by that date or is it just hot and miss, luck of the draw? The seller says his doesn't have any but also said that it has under 200 plays so would it even be showing by this point?

I am a relative newbie to the hobby and reading all of this stuff about Sterns quality control and playfield issues make me think I should avoid their products altogether, particularly if they aren't acknowledging the issues and making things right.

Any product you buy new or old, from any manufacturer you risk something going wrong with it. Just be prepared to resolve that issue should it arise. No guarantees no matter what you get. Plenty of help out there. Make sure you can inspect a game yourself before you buy.

Find a collector that knows what they're looking at and take them with you to inspect the game.

Mine was made in September of last year and is perfectly fine. I've never heard of anyone post September having issues, but like was suggested above, bring someone who knows what they're looking at.

That is part of the problem. It is an out of state purchase that would be shipped somI can't eyeball it in person. I don't think you can tell much from the pictures. Mainly going off of what the seller is saying. He has 12 pins and seems like a straight up, honest person but really, I would just be going off of what he is telling me.

My question is even if there are no current issues, what are the odds it develops once it has 300+ plays? I understand issues can happen with any game but the reality is something as new as Ghostbusters shouldn't be having these type of issues. If an auto manufacturer released a new product with a lot of issues, they would have recalls and fix the problem. Does Stern think because they are one of the few (and largest) manufacturer of pinball machines that they don't need to do the same?

There does seem to be quite a few GB for sale on Pinside. Is this due to all these issues or because many find it a difficult game to play?

I am refocusing on my golf game again. I crush the driver and suck around the greens. Time to play a whole lot more!

However, after getting caught today on the 14th hole in a Caddyshack Judge Smayles rainstorm I thought to myself, pinball ain't so F ing bad after all!

So I came home drenched, popped open a brewsky and hit the GBLE.

That is a great pinball machine, especially when you are drinking and the magna slings, Scoleri brothers, Slimer and holograms start messing with you.

That is gorgeous packed pinball machine.

I have very MINOR ghosting on two inserts and chipping in the drain hole. So what right? I'll never sell it and if it falls to shit i can always replace it myself.

Now that doesn't mean i want another F ed up project pin in SWLE!

My BM66LE and ASLE pf's are a thing of beauty. WTF is going on!

Tell the truth Stern.

Do you mind me asking when your LE was made? Was it one of the initial batch last year that have had been reported to have frequent ghosting/playfield issues?

Where are replacement LE playfields sold? I'd be worried they are unobtanium.

Mine is August 2, 2016.

We are about a year and a 1/2 into the GB license of 3 years so I'm planning on playing it a lot and seeing what happens.

What Stern does or doesn't do will impact GREATLY how i spend my dollars in the future.

Worst case, I'll buy it myself from Stern and chalk it up to lesson learned.

That's why I'm out on the SWLE.

That assumes STERN will have one left over...

They better.

The hundreds of replacements already done i think they will have plenty.