See that white line at the bottom edge of the "Battle above Endor" insert? That's ghosting. The clear is pulling away from the insert.

Glad I backed out of the LE.....I think it's the end of NIB for me

Oh no!

Wasnt laughing at the issue for your information...just that we posted at the same time in different threads . Also there is no excuse for any of these playfield issues with any company but it is what it is. Personally i dont think eaither are a big deal.

Got it. Something we happen to agree upon, it is what it is.

People shouldn't buy NIB pins if it bothers them that much. What should we expect? I'm not sure, but either way, nobody has a gun to our heads.

Maybe more people will simply quit buying NIB. Pricing and the direction thereof is by far the biggest negative of what's going on.

Stern is their own worse enemy. Like it or not Ice, their qc has turned lots of buyers off, and lumping them in with competitors to deflect the issue doesn't make it any better. I'm stoked about getting a new pin shortly - sure it won't be perfect, but I know the quality will way higher, and any issue I might have will be addressed immediately with jjp.

I have my popcorn ready for a particular persons response.

Yeah me too. I was going to say something but I'm kind of at a loss for words right now lol.

I'm so excited. Let the fun begin.

Oooff....I think Stern overcooked your hot dog

Pretty close, try one title earlier. Stern playfield ghosting issues began on GOT. That game also experienced the left orbit problem. I remember listening to a video where Gary or George said they found and fixed the problem on GB. It shouldn't be reappearing.

Midway-Man, sometimes date stamp is on the playfield under apron if not on the edge. Sometimes a date sticker is used. Can you take some pics? The one systemic problem prior to that involved printing Star Trek playfields and keeping the colors correct.

More images of SW ghosting showing up on the net...

Screen Shot 2017-07-23 at 10.07.30 PM (resized).png

Is that really a big deal? My GOT has some ghosting inserts and it does not effect game play at all. If I had been following the ghosting thread, I probably qualify to have my playfield replaced but I don't think the ghosting is getting any worse.

If you decide to sell it, it will decrease your sale price. Also, if the ghosting gets worse, like it did on my GBLE, a ghosted insert can crack or sink.

They are all their own worst enemy

The lack of communication and the way they handle things is terrible

At least Jack has quit lying and stopped just telling people what they want to hear

I'll disagree with you MountainG. The quality you are getting is simply NOT way higher

Doesn't matter though as long as you like it

Btw, price is a much bigger turn off imo

This dude has a JJP and is still going to claim that there's not a big quality disparity between JJP and Stern. He's lost his ability to be objective. Fanboyism has claimed another.

But you bought a Batman '66 and several LE versions of games. Dude, just admit it...you're horribly biased. Just own it at this point. The white knight act would be more palatable if you didn't try to keep up the act of impartiality.

Dude you are one of the ultimate Stern haters and JJP fanboys. Whatever.

I'm biased because i F ing LOVE my Stern pins. They are fun/great pins which is what pinball is about. That i'll own all day long.

And if i have a problem with them I just "OPEN A TICKET" and get it fixed. I don't whine and cry about it non stop on Pinside. You got a replacement GB pf no? Congratulations.

When i look at my Woz the supposed higher quality just isn't there in my eyes. The value of a heavier cab with direct print? So what. I had a pf and inside cab full of problems. Get it?

What i know for a fact is that if i go to sell my WozECLE right now i could get about what i paid for it. $6500.

As far as making and producing pinball machines you are DREAMING if you think the crew at JJP is as competent as the Stern crew that has been doing it for decades and infinitely more experience.

You will continue to see issues with JJP pins that require you to "open a ticket" because their crew isn't as experienced. Good thing JJP has great customer service like Stern.

Amen...

It's almost like "yea, I know the throttle on that Toyota stuck and killed a few people, but did you see the ignition problems Chevrolet has?"

I have seen legitimate issues with all manufacturers. But the act of disparaging one for the slightest issue and praising the other no matter how serious the problem gets old.

Some images were posted of damage around a hole in dialed in, and within 15 minutes iceman had posted it three threads and was talking about PF swaps. Now that there is another issue with a stern machine? "Shiiiit, no biggie, nothing to see here folks, move along, jjp has worse issues, stern is king, I'm totally unbiased because i used to defend jjp and own woz so I know".

I do think some of the issues people have are serious, but I also think a lot of things are also overblown. People can like whoever they want and I feel for the most part everyone is happy there is great games being produced. But the tired act of shilling for one company under the guise of being unbiased is disingenuous and lame.

Give it a rest man. I criticize Stern for a lot things i don't like. Yes I'm biased in that i love the pins I've gotten from them, never said they are perfect, far from it.

I don't need to shill shit. I buy what i like. Now go ahead and whine to a mod again.

might as well be talking to a brick wall. The fact you think I would care enough to go tattle to a mod shows how clueless you really are. Do you think the reason multiple people make comments to you, or why you get thread ejects is because everyone else is wrong? I don't think most people give a shit what you like, but will say something when you yell fire in one theater, but tell another theater everything is fine as it burns down around them. Obviously it's pinball and those are just examples, but I'm sure I'm wasting my keystrokes. The fact you think I went to a mod about you shows how little you recognize and take responsibility for your own behavior. Either way, carry on, I have neither the time nor the interest to go over this any further.

You are def wasting your time.

Just like all the other Stern haters that flood every thread with BS. Club threads being the exception.

My behavior is fine. So lets try and stay "on topic" and stop the "personal attacks".

The topic is all about how shitty Stern is, remember?

Here you go, let em know. http://www.sternpinball.com/contact

You're right, stern hater. I have only owned over a dozen sterns and 2 of their last 4 releases. You got it all figured out. Carry on.

You are correct, I don't consider you personally as part of the Anti Stern Army. Carry on.

I'm curious what you find so funny. I've had issues with Stern pins & JJP in the past but both were resolved when going through the proper channels. Those that wanna come here directly and shit all over the company before giving them time to make it right aren't doing themselves any good. Things like this are going to happen, all you can do is work with your distributor to get things right. I swear I think some people on here get more pleasure by slamming on Stern or JJP then they do actually playing pinball.

The problem is when "things like that" start to appear on every new machine/playfield they release.....

jjp and stern both suck,when either releases a game with 100% complete code(not counting little bugs here n there) then they can hold their heads high

Dialed In had complete code on release.

I find Iceman44 very funny. So I just satisfied your curiosity. His comments are fantastic and very comical.

This is not accurate. If by 'code' you simply mean the game rules, this is likely true. But the software as a whole is riddled with bugs and missing animations. Not quite complete yet.

So are you saying when other companies release a pinball, there codes are further along at release? There is always room for improvement, updates, changes.

Stern Tour photo: Quality Control Department

sleepys-65 (resized).jpg

It is complete. They literally said, the game is complete and updates will be for adding animations, call outs, bug fixes, etc.

I'm curious to hear what you bugs you have found, as I haven't seen any. Riddled typically means a lot of problems and I just haven't seen that.

You love me. I knew it!

I am the Voice of Reason

LOL. So if I said "your car is complete" but updates will be on the way to get the windows to roll down, enable ABS brakes, and allow radio presets, you'd just go along with your car being released as "complete"? The software was not complete. Fixing bugs implies the code is complete. Adding animations that should already be there means it is not complete. It's really simple. What's your motivation here to ignore the facts? I don't get it. So strange. Are you PR for JJP?

There are a ton of bugs - maybe you don't play enough? Maybe you aren't a good player? I have no idea. I've reported every bug encountered to JJP. Hopefully they fix them. I'm not listing them all here but I'll give you one:

When a ball is hit slowly up the left ramp and it stalls at the diverter girl, the game should know that the second switch right after the diverter girl was never hit. So it should immediately raise the diverter to allow the ball to pass. Instead, it just sits there and you have to wait 15 sec for a ball search, which can result in your mode ending w/o a chance to play it.

Nope...literally nothing I said implied that or indicated that in any way. I think Stern releasing games with alpha/beta software and rules is well known. WMS games were released finished because they had to be. Burning and swapping ROMs isn't something people wanted to do back then. Now with USB updates, modern mfgs figure they can just release buggy stuff and they'll fix it after they already got our money. But my comment had nothing to do with anyone but JJP.

Where are you playing the game in RI?

My point is this. JJP releases there games with more complete code than STERN ever has. PERIOD!!! Going to be bug fixes and such.

At my house.

We agree on this. My issue was simply that Jack claimed the code was 'complete' at launch and yes it's way further along than Sterns are at launch but it is not what I'd call 'complete'.

Not associated with them at all, but when someone says they have major problems "like the magnet not being set correctly", I'm probably going to dismiss whatever they say afterwards. I've put 120 games, getting all the way to showdown (or whatever it's called) on mine and haven't seen any bugs, so for someone to say it is riddled with issues I find it hard to believe when I haven't seen 1 in 120 games. Haven't seen the diverter issue, as she is typically moving at all times. I could be wrong but surprised no one has mentioned it with the dozens of units out. I can imagine there is bugs, but saying riddled with bugs/ code issues seem over exaggerated when most haven't seen one. Any others we can look out for?

It's also interesting for you to say "the car doesn't have brakes" when you can play the game completely through. Of course who wouldn't want it loaded with code, but a "shell of a game" it definitely isn't.

I have issues with the game. I think the sim hole is a shit design that needs chamfered edges, and probably a protector. I think the rubber they used is garbage, and the balls could've been better. I think the code is light years ahead of where other companies are, especially for a new release. I just have issues putting much stock into what you say, as the first thing you did was create a thread about jjp and CGC saying their playfield clear is shit, and you haven't seen sterns with that issue. Seriously? Stern hasn't had playfield issues? Wowsa. Honestly, it's not even a stern or jjp issue, as I would feel the same way if someone had nit picky issues over sterns. In the end, who's to say and you may be exactly right. I mean, I know there is some valid concerns, but of your laundry lists of complaints, most haven't seen them. People were asking for pictures not to chastise you, but because it seems unbelievable. If you posted proof of all the issues you claim, I would be the first one to say I was wrong. Either way, best of luck with your game.

Can we agree that Stern released more games in the last yr than JJP has in 7 years?

That's a factor and we all know it.

I would have zero issue ever with a JJP coded game because of Keith and Ted. Great like their support with Lloyd and crew

With Stern, we all know you have to be real careful buying Nib depending on WHO is doing the code

Even still, it's frustrating that my BM66LE doesn't have more advanced code from Lyman yet. It will be great when done but he's juggling multiple pins at the same time

I hate when two people sidetrack threads and get into an argument that literally nobody else reading the thread gives a crap about. So I'm going to PM you now and we can finish the conversation that way and not gunk this thread up with me posting legit issues I'm having and you challenging them as not worthy of attention or worse, that I made them up because I'm a Stern shareholder, or I'm Gary Stern, or who knows.

I was really thinking about buying this pin as my next one.

Was.

Next pin which will never be here.

Maybe buying 2 old WMS in good condition or 2 Stern from older days is the better deal than 1 Stern without QC.
They are a) not competent enough b) too ignorant c) too busy , don´t know.

But A + B will kill C.

Maybe call it "feature complete"? Stern doesn't even bother with that anymore at launch.

OR, you could just put each other on ignore. Problem permanently solved.

Not too hard when you release 1 game every 2 years wouldn't you agree? Lets see what happens if they ever get to the point where they release 4-5 games a year and have to code update all of them.

You could say the same thing about uniqueness of playfield layouts...Stern is dipping into the same pool a lot. Not all games...but a lot... are starting to have a cookie-cutter feel. Pretty easy to see why: speed to market.

Does anyone really want that though? Does Stern actually need that to keep the line going at a good pace? What if they gave a design team 12 months to do a game instead of 9 months? They don't need to maintain a release schedule in line with their historical release dates, they need to keep the line busy and release games when they are ready.

Exactly. JJP just started his company 4 years ago. Stern has been out how long? Plus it's very easy to produce 3-4 zizzles a year vs what JJP is producing.

You get no argument from me