Oh, how I wish I was 10 again!

I always forget the damn exchange rate...it's like a traumatic event that your brain tries to protect itself from and makes you forget.

Then you would just be playing these at the local arcade or bowling alley and wouldn't give a shit about the inserts as long as it spits a ball out and all the flippers work.

That's absolutely true!

Thanks
I just gave it a clean yesterday and is now set up for our NZ National comp which is this weekend...

And a shooter lane pic.. CC is still hanging in there

20160616_061604_(resized).jpg

20160616_063222_(resized).jpg

Well, yes. Only Stern knows for sure how many reports they have gotten, so they are the only ones with real information. Not sure what you are asking.

I don't see how that is the "real information". According to several people who posted in this thread, the ghosting only showed up after days/weeks. I don't see any Stern employees posting in here saying "we deliberately shipped playfields with ghosted inserts", although I could've missed it.

I doubt Stern will say theres a playfield quality issue as they probably don't want people to cancel their orders.

Stern! pay $210 and get a better Clear Coat!

Could CCC be a bit pissed off that a new company is going to do playfields and now are doing a sub par job?

Did someone say "GB Lottery" ?

GB_Lottery_(resized).JPG

No. I think they were fired for doing subpar playfields.

Looks like from the silhouettes, this is based on the chick version.

No thanks, I'll pass.

It has the '59 Miller-Meteor Eldorado ECTO-1 and not that POS 1985 Seville or whatever the hell the new one is, so that's the original movie.

No.

CCC is delighted that Stern is trying another company. "Stern will be begging for us to take them back when they see how terrible other playfield manufacturers are."

Vid - what game did the new manufacturer start with?

No one knows.

They have not shipped any yet.

I think the usual reasons for bringing a process like playfield manufacturing in house would be to control the supply, the quality or to save money, hopefully all three.

The problems with the current playfields may or may not have anything to do with their move away from CGC.

CGC has been making playfields forever. Still, stuff happens in manufacturing and I expect they'll figure out what's causing the ghosting.

I would be surprised if Stern doesn't run into its own set of problems when they stop using CGC.

True maybe I have mispoke about the ghosting being on the machine when it leaves the factory. But posts of pictures of NIB machines being open with ghosting before a ball has been played have been posted.

You see, this perfectly illustrates the issue:

Picture of the kind of gradual, graceful clearcoat/playfield wear you would expect a pinball machine to exhibit after thousands of plays:
ec45157fe90b80ead5948a251744e66a084754c4_(resized).jpg

Picture of Stern's crap-tastic chippy playfield clearcoat after a few dozen plays:
sternshooterlane_(resized).jpg
That clear will chip off completely in no time if not covered with mylar immediately.

And it's happening on every non-flat surface on the table, drain hole, MET Mystery hole, etc.

Does anyone really still think there's not an issue here??

Scoops and Shooter lanes have always worn pretty quickly on Sterns, thats why a lot of us use mylar/Cliffy protectors before play 1.

Sand off the chipping clear and brush something over it, good to go.....

I don't think anyone said there isn't an issue. Some said "accept it and play" and others want a new game and replacement storm windows on their house. I'm guessing the real solution is somewhere in between....but for the record, I think everyone agrees there is an issue....any guess at the cause is just that, a guess.

Interesting. So are the playfields having these issues right now, the ones in games recently shipped, made by CCC, in house by Stern or another manufacturer?

Thanks!

No one should pay the kind of money they do for a new in box and receive a sub par game like this.

They are still using the same CCC playfields that have been made for 80 years.

Has quality at CCC dropped and Stern is now looking elsewhere?

No, same quality as always.

No company on earth has ever made more pinball playfields than CCC, they claim.

One could be left to wonder if stern changed the specs of how they wanted their play fields built. Out of what wood type and clear coating process. Perhaps this is the net result of trying to reduce the $200 cost.

I have yet to run across a mirco or cpr with ghosting. Chipping yes, ghosting no.

Same Maple on every playfield.

A few German made playfields were softer Birch wood.

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Plenty of "problems" with every brand playfield.

Playfields are like diamonds. Every one has flaws.

But we're only talking about ghosting in this thread. What is mirco and cpr doing differently to avoid ghosting.

Just like all those jackasses I see in brand new corvettes with orange peel. Don't worry. There are plenty of tools around to buy your machine at full price. Why do you think finding "the greater fool" means?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

Did you miss where the last 50 to 100 MMR customers got factory second PF's with light grey ink on the bottom castle inserts? Yeah I'd say Churchill is having some issues overall. I don't care how many years they have been making them.

If this is their handiwork, they are a complete mess.

We've established a pattern of recent Stern playfields that have insert ghosting right out of the box, and rapidly worsening over time.
We've also seen that the quality of their clearcoat is poor, resulting in premature chipping and failure of the clearcoat in areas subject to the most aggressive contact with the ball.

I don't care if it's CCCs problem or someone else's, I want Stern to stand behind their products.

Specifically, IMHO they need to:

a) Acknowledge that these issues are not satisfactory and not within acceptable product specs.

b) Take care of recent customers who have machines that are suffering from these issues by sending out fully-populated replacement playfields, unpopulated playfields, or even replacing/returning entire machines, as required.

c) Take real corrective action to improve their products to avoid these issues leaving the factory in the future.

Buyers need to have confidence that their investment in a NIB Stern pinball won't arrive from the factory with these issues, and that if they do arrive faulty, that Stern will stand behind their machines. I, for one, won't buy another NIB Stern until I see a long-term trend of improvement. Even then, fool me once...

You see it on playfields, even before they are installed.

If you are going to have playfields with real clearcoat, you are going to have some ghosting.

lifting_(resized).jpg

The easiest way to eliminate having this issue in the future, and not have so much to complain about would be to learn now, and stop buying NIB machines.

If another thread like this pops up in two months, the buyer of the machine has nobody to blame but himself.

Completely agree , but they won't say anything. Hopefully they get it under control, but they won't admit it.

Vid I agree with you but this is more than " some ghosting"

...and then you put those playfields aside and do not ship them to customers.

And if the number of playfields that must be rejected becomes too expensive, you invest in new techniques, materials, or processes to reduce the root causes for the rejects in the first place. It's called "innovation", and it's how companies stay in business.

Does Stern do the clearing in house?

I think they send them out to the publishers clearing house.

I'm guessing that's a reproduction playfield. I have never seen this happen in person on any brand of game until now.

I see it on almost every playfield made after 1988 that I work on.

It's harder to see on the cloudy Diamondplate ones, but it's there.

NOS, Reproductions or 25 years old players, it's there.

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The warranty says Stern does not cover the playfield.

So, if ghosting interferes with your enjoyment of a game, honestly, quit buying them (or add a cloudy clearcoat to the game).

You probably have noticed that no "big name" playfield restorers have chimed in that they know of a way to clearcoat playfields and never have ghosting or crazing. Because no one knows of any.

If CCC, who has manufactured millions of playfields, does not know how to prevent it, then it is unlikely that any smaller manufacturer does either.

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I'm not joking - if ghosting truly bothers you, stop buying new games.

There are 5,981 pinball machine titles that were manufactured before clearcoating - all of which will be free of ghosting.

The original game from 1984 did not have a clearcoat, so no ghosting.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner for post of the day.

Or if anything bothers you.

This sight has turned into complaintside. If the clear coat doesn't bother you, I'm sure you will find something else that does.

Does anybody buy these just to play anymore?

Don't forget that MAP probably raised prices too.

Rob

O-din are you kidding, don't you remember hurt posting about getting ripped on the MET? Now imagine the price you paid with a chipping clearcoat...come on man.

I got ripped on Met and learned my lesson. Fast. But I took my loss in the shorts and liked it!

I took a very close look at the four games in my game room with clear coat (TZ, CC, LOTR and RFM). Out of the four I saw very minor ghosting on a couple inserts on only one machine, RFM.

I can believe that you've seen ghosting on games from every manufacturer and era with clear coat.

I find it hard to believe that almost every playfield exhibits this issue. Perhaps it's just the ones sent to you for repair have a higher incidence of this.

I don't think I would buy a game if the inserts looked like the one below. Wouldn't the area where the clear is separating from the insert be more prone to damage?

ghosting_(resized).jpg

The quality is not near the same that it has been. My RCT clear in the shooter lane has never chipped like that and the outhole is perfect. I don't see one insert that exhibits any ghosting either.