well anything thats not bringing in money, its way down the priority order.

Isn't this glue on the underside of the insert? I have it on several inserts on my GBLE, and it's really bad on my lightning bolt Slimer insert.

No it's not glue it's insert crazing and is not considered a defect.

Ok, cool, I'll add crazing to the pile of GBLE issues. It's highly notieable on my machine.

Exactly the point of this petition: fix these issues or, as kpg said, get the fuck sued out of you. Stern is behaving very similarly to Onkyo when the issues were first being brought up: deny, deny, ban from forums, deny, make promises you have no intent on keeping, deny that, threaten, etc.

Signed up. I've got crazing, ghosting, chipping and god knows what else. Sounds like a thug life Alvin and the Chipmunks ensemble.

I think what you have done here is huge and should be applauded from all. You are not only helping currently disgruntled buyers that have been bullied by a corporate but future prospective buyers, the community as an entity.

Fingers crossed you gain the outcome you desire.

Stick it to the man!

Mt GB Pro has quite a few inserts like that. No ghosting, just bubbling or crazing or whatever it is...

Rob

A single tiny sliver with no other chipping, peeling, or cracking is a cause for hope. But a large portion of ALL playfields (not just GB) made in the Mar-Oct 2016 period are bad, so I'd remain vigilant.

Thanks a lot!! That's my plan. No way I make a big stink about this and waste my time just to quit before a favorable result. I'll make it happen for the benefit of all affected, regardless how many fanboys come in here and try and take jabs at me for doing this. They didn't spend their hard earned money on a defective product, so of course they just sit back and talk shit.

This isn't a joke and quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of companies putting out shit products and then hoping people are too lazy to come after them to make them pay.

....kinda sounds like Stern. All we are missing is them stepping up to the plate under pressure.

It’s far from ideal. It doesn’t matter if the purchase price is $1 or $100,000 you should be happy with the purchase. However, so many seem to try and justify it, why? If a car manufacture discovers a problem with a specific model released, they will recall immediately and rectify all problems. In NZ we can return any product for a full refund, thanks to the 30 day consumer guarantees act. I could buy a loaf of bread tomorrow, keep the receipt, return it within 30 days……..full refund!

So many of the posts on Pinside are negative, mostly due to the lack of code and ghosting/hazing/chipped/misspelled playfields. You have now given them the opportunity to rectify their issues and possibly prevent them in the future. Imagine how different pinside would be if GB released with full code and perfect playfields, the discussions would only be positivity surrounding play strategies, mods, modes, wizard modes and game depth.

So here you go people, with what this gentleman has implemented we will soon know if majority would prefer to continue posting comments of frustration and anger than having an option to resolve the problem and move forward.

There is a GB on location near my work and I noticed a sliver sized ghosted area on 2 inserts when I first saw it. I figured the playfield would fall apart within a few months, but surprisingly after 7 months it hasn't gotten any worse, and it gets a lot of plays. So you might be OK.

My GB is also a July/August build... No ghosting yet after 200+ plays. Won't be surprised if it happens though.

Stern, I've been saying it for a long time now that its time to make pinball great again! If you keep having these types of issues we are not going to buy your games, period. Going to make your games in China next? No, we won't buy em. You have to make pinball machines, so why not make them big, make them huge. Do that and things are going to be great, just great. An extremely credible source has called me, great guy, and has said that you won't tell everyone what's going on with these playfield issues. That's bad business, many of us know business and know what you are doing isn't right.

pinball_great (resized).JPG

Looks like 55 frustrated, impacted and/or supportive pinheads took the time to voice their concerns.

https://www.change.org/p/gary-stern-replace-defective-stern-pinball-machine-playfields?recruiter=662410736&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink

Figured I would post here in addition to the MET forum, My NIB LED MET PRO was delivered late July with a stamped April 01 2016 playfield. Backbox dated June 15th 2016. I have clear chipping at around shooter lane and also at outhole. 548 Balls played and 178 total plays. I am waiting to hear back from Stern.... I am also working through Stern on Grave Marker in-line drop targets not resetting properly.
At the very least do not play one game without all the cliffy protectors applied, as I kept putting it on the back burner due to being out of town.
My HULK has zero protection, tons more games, and zero issues, so I think 2016 is a bad year to buy NIB. I dumped my GBLE and GBPREM, thinking I would avoid any issues by going MET, well that didn't work.

Atm I am very concerned about the slow progress of the petition. By reading the comments here, people were vocal the masses are effected and a riot was eminent. Why am I concerned, if you guys don't pull together in some semblance of unity in a hurry, Stern might even pull the trigger on this imaginary pf swap program. Then I'll be pissed. And please guys, use your whole name, not Jerry G, so hopefully Stern can see you are serious by putting your name to it, or are these just appearing in the comments section and real names are actually on the petition. Btw Good luck

Just signed.....maybe not all pinsiders are in here on a weekly basis.

I wonder if people are afraid to sign the petition, much less use whole names since Stern has a history of blackballing people

They don't take your name when you buy a pin, only the distributor has that as far as I know. I don't think it would matter much if they did blackball anyone.

Hello,

First time posting here. I'vee thinking about buying a MET Pro for a very long time but haven't done so because of all the issues I've read about (ghosting inserts, broken drop targets, magnet damage) withing a few games or a few months of play. I have games that are more than 20 years old that have perfect playfields.

Are the newer Metallica's still having all these issues? Still hesitant about taking the plunge....Thanks!

My little bubble of enthusiasm re the idea of buying an Aerosmith Pro has evaporated as it's a lottery as to whether you end up with a lemon or not and if/when the code gets done.

There have always been complaints but never seen this volume before.

Fair point

Life's a lottery but best you don't purchase.

I've been told Churchfield is making the playfields again....

I think you mean Churchill.

Yeah that. Sorry.

You should be fine with a Met Pro, % wise, it has shown minimal issues.
If you have any concerns, picking up an HUO, allowing you to inspect and try out, might be a good choice too.

Excellent point! Thanks!

Just wait a while until you can play it and see how things work out. It is not like they are not going to be available in a year.

Three questions:

1) if a playfield has ghosting, does it get worse over time?
2) do any Churchill playfields exhibit ghosting?
3) who is making PFs for BM66?

Received my MET Pro in August. Chipping playfield and ghosting started after a few hundred balls. Playfield date, June 2, 2016. Backbox June 18.

Still waiting to hear back from Stern.

1) Certainly did on some GB. Other titles not so much.
2) They have in the past CV had it bad and NGG has a little.
3) Need to call Stern and ask. Churchill used to be proud of the product and clearly stamped their name and info on the side. If they don't do this anymore then nobody truly knows as either nobody has asked Stern or they won't answer the question.

Sometimes. Clearly some of these GB playfields are getting worse by the day and have chipping clear at an early age. Not a good sign. I have one insert on my TSPP with a sliver of ghosting...but the game was built in 2005 so I don't see it getting worse at this point. Same with my CV...a game that was notorious for it. It has very minor ghosting, and since it's held up for 20 years I'm not worried. There's a GB Pro on location near me with minor ghosting. Since its played all day and night and hasn't had any other damage - maybe that's as bad as it'll get.

good question. is Stern willing to share that info ?

During the entire GB PF drama I never saw a post that said "I called Stern and asked and they said the PF's are made by XXX"
or "I called Stern and asked and they said they couldn't share that info"...etc...

It would be funny if nobody with PF problems had actually called and asked this simple question to Stern.

Even if they wouldn't tell you it would be worth it to hear stern say " Sorry. That's classified!"

If anyone calls please record it

In Illinois you need both party's consent before you can record a call. You would have to ask them if it's ok to record the call first, and then they will either say no or hang up on you.

Factual information included:

I've been very patient with my SMVE & MET issues (April 2016 & Aug 2016 respectively) and after some prodding I received an email back from P.P. @ Stern. [issues described in this thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious/page/42#post-3277858 and https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious/page/98#post-3426590]

No answer yet on what will happen with MET but the email clearly stated that the SMVE field will be replaced when one becomes available.

Availability is another concern. Stern's been producing the SMVE recently so I'm speculating that either they want to fill existing backorders (before addressing existing customer issues) or they're not entirely sure they've fixed the ghosting and chipping.

So happy for you! Hope you can get this resolved very soon!

They've put ZERO priority on fixing the issues. GBLE owners are still waiting, despite how easy it would be to pull playfields from the premium run, have them signed, and made available to affected owners. These are their top tier clients, and they're just not giving any sort of care to take care of major quality problems.

Stern. Does. Not. Care.

If the problem was because they are unsure if quality problems have been fully addressed, then they shouldn't be shipping games until they are sure.

Yes. They. DO

Pinsiders that have been in this hobby for along time disgust me if they think Stern does not care. Yes, it sucks what a small % of people are going through and the process is taking longer than expected; but as has been said, and ignored, by many Stern Buyers & Supporters is that Stern Always. Makes. It. Right.

Stern shouldnt shut down factory and put 500+ (or however many) families unemployed so they can go address the small % of their consumers playfields. I think Pinside has really blown this out of proportion more than it is. Stern has the numbers, stern has the facts and they do make it right. So its taking longer than expected - and yes, communication could be better; who knows why its taking them longer, but the fact of the matter is, they will make it right.

I recently bought an NIB SMVE. It has a sliver..and i mean a sliver of ghosting on one insert which i have reason to believe was self inflicted by accidentally dropping a ball directly on the insert. Does it bother me? no. Should it bother me? no. Is the playfield immaculate? yes. Am i concerned about playfield quality? no. Will it piss me off if my playfield turns into that <5% that looks like KPG? yes.

I have seen KPG's playfield first hand and its Sh*t ass garbage. Yes, he has a case for a new playfield and should be treated as such which is why i signed and back his petition. But to say that Stern just does not care is ignorant.

Why would Stern need to shut down their factory to replace playfields that were manufactured poorly? It's the same people that are going to run them. Ghostbusters has been on the line for MONTHS since these issues came to light. It would have be so easy to pull playfields to be used for replacement without even disrupting their schedule. Maybe...MAYBE they have a small excuse for the games not on the line to take a bit longer, but there's no excuse for Ghostbusters LE/Premium games.

Until Stern actually shows that they care, you're absolutely wrong to apologize for them and to call others ignorant. They've shown everything to the contrary, and you making excuses for them just alleviates the pressure that they should be feeling. It's absolutely insulting that they feel no obligation to communicate and make things right in a reasonable time frame.

Why would anybody make excuses for Stern anyway? What do you owe Stern? People have had plenty of time to "act reasonable and patient" in regards to this stuff. The timeline we're dealing with now is ridiculous.

Because you said this...

What do i owe stern besides how many kick ass pinball machines they've made and has been in and out of my home in the past 10 years, i dunno - a thanks for starters. But, im not making excuses nor am i apologizing for them but thanks for skewing my post. If you read it again i said their communication does need to be better. Fact of the matter is I said they care cause you know why...they do! Just cause you dont care doesnt mean other people dont also. It sucks what happened to KPG's playfield, ive seen it in person and first hand; i'd be pissed as he is if i were him! But there is hardly any other cases that has a playfield as bad as his. Everyone else's playfield is play able and in most cases, will still qualify for a new playfield! Yay!

Am i 100% approving sterns methods? no, never said i was. In fact i signed KPG's petition and have voiced how disgruntled i am with stern on other issues such as BM66 pricing; know what - i decided not to buy BM66 and bought an NIB SMVE despite people 'thinking' its overpriced. And you know what, to them it may be, but the VE is 10X better than the original (to me) and definitely worth the $2k difference.

All in all, some of the negative nellies here need to relax a little. Pinside forums internet is faster than real life. Stern will make it right - and yes, i agree they should be a lot more proactive to the few people who are affected as much as KPG's playfield. But each playfield is different, KPG's is literally disintegrating! And because of that, some people are making it out for others to believe 95% of sterns pinballs are going to do the same when in fact its probably closer to 1-2%. And you know what, as has been said by so many people who have had issues with stern games in the past, they always make it right.

All in all, i said what i needed to say. You can either trust that a company that has been doing things great for our hobby for decades will make things right, as they have for so many customers in the past. Or you can shell up into internet forums and complain + beat the dead horse.

Without naming names, because I'm trying not to do that, but Stern has changed in recent years. They're not the same company that they have always been. This is why I don't trust them like I used to. There are certain people there that don't conduct themselves in a manner that makes them worthy of trust. I was REALLY quiet through issues when I trusted the company's intentions. That's no longer true, however.

I hear you man and pretty certain I know who you're talking about. How much pull that person has with this particular subject is unknown but yea, that nameless person certainly hasn't done stern many favors in the public eye with his/her cockiness and arrogance.

Internet and social media has put our society in a position of demanding answers now when we want them. But if you look at companies like JJP, spooky, planetary, etc.... See how long it takes to get the silver ball rolling on manufacturing and corrections. All I can do is go From personal experience, and stern has and usually gets it right. Lemme throw one of these out there though *knock on wood* so when I get home from work today my SMVE isn't FUBAR'd like some here and yes, it does suck and I haven't said otherwise, I just believe with all my heart stern, for the most part, does care about their product and care about making things right for their customers. Even if it doesn't seem that way cause of that one unnamed person.

Hmmm. So based on your estimation, they really only need to replace 5-10 GBLE playfields. Wow, do I feel lucky to be one of those few 1-2%. And to think that it may only take them a year or so to build and ship 5-10 replacement playfields for their highest tier customers. Sorry, that's not just a communication flaw. The FACT that KPG's playfield is as defective and damaged as it is, and the FACT that Stern has failed to correct this, this one playfield, in a timely manner, leads many of us to the conclusion that Stern doesn't care.

Excuses are like assholes.... everybody has one and they all stink.

Your practically giving the answer away

Couldn't be more right, the internet has lead modern society to want answers and product asap and social media has only added to that immediate need and demand, but if its used correctly it can satisfy those demands faster than any other method, its an open door to your customers lives and buying habits, but unfortunately like you have said "that unnamed person" just doesn't seem to be taking full advantage of it and using it to communities, buying market and ultimately Sterns full benefit.

Just One Douche, Yes?